Weakest class in PvE?

Cathexis

Sorcerer

djnapstyb14_ESO wrote: »

argonian stam sorc

Ohoho you've never tried a stamina orc sorcerer my friend.

PhatGrimReaper

Sorcerer

seanvwolf wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

I'll go one step further and say; pve is for the weak.

The person who, to this date, has cost me more soul gems in a single vet dungeon run, before kicking them, was a Former Emperor.

I hear ya, I ran with two former Emps and one of their buddies in the Vet Pledge last night.... good dudes and awesome at PVP, but the run last night was just painful.... to the point where I ended up taking over as tank because we kept wiping on Bogdan, which just shouldn't happen.

PVP & PVE are not even close to the same.

PVE Tank... #1 DK, #2 Temp/NB - Situations will determine which is better, #3 Sorc - not that there aren't good sorc tanks out there, but they are good players, not playing a good tanking class.... on a side note, Templars are probably the best tank for a really bad group because of the off-heals and quick res'

DPS... #1 DK/NB, #2 Sorc, #Templar... I like DKs for the utility+damage and some NBs are just insane DPS wise... Sorcs fall behind, at least in Trials groups because negate isn't really needed anymore... templars are last because they would be more useful as a healer, not that I haven't seen good temp DPS.

Heals #1 templar.......................... #2 NB, #3 DK, #4 Sorc

I know someone is going to hate something I wrote, but I can live with that.

byrom101b16_ESO

Sorcerer

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

I presume you are being ironic?

Post this mythological 20K+ dps Sorcerer, or maybe just stop making stuff up and posting it... and don't bother with 20 second fights where ultimate was spammed and the target was debuffed up the wazzoo by the accompanying party members...

ArRashid

Other:

Anyone who wishes to fight like in EVERY TES GAME BEFORE ESO - using light and heavy attacks.

I love the idea of using skills for added bit of utility to your attacks (stun, slow, knockdown, etc), but seriously.. Zenimax messed up when they tried to force us into chaincasting spells and abilities as the only way to reach reasonable amount of DPS.


Oh god, I'd kill for a MMORPG where you still have to THINK:

- where the solo monsters are hard as heck

- where mobs of monsters are weak but they flank the heck out of you if you're alone

- where it matters which attacks you block (light, taking less of your stamina) and which you dodge (heavy, they are slower, thus easier to avoid without using stamina at all)

- where simultaneous attacks by both sides parry one another, nullifying damage (unless the strength difference is too much and Crushing Blow happens)

- where you can injure your party members by recklessly swinging your weapon, so you actually have to think twice before setting whole floor on fire

- where you use your skills as a last resort (as they cost stamina which you need for blocking)

- where shooting arrows or spells require actually aiming

- where combat is hard enough to push you to think out of the box and actually use your surroundings to your advantage

- where damage dealt is determined by location of the hit

- where combat is hard enough that the "dps" doesn't matter anymore, it's the survival that is your main objective

- where you can change reasonable amount of your character's visuals by ingame means (hair style, hair color, make-up, tattoos (permanent once set), scars (permanent once set), <within reasonable limits:> skin color (tanning/avoiding sun),..)

- where class balance is not defined by dps... but by your actual worth to the group and individual skills (who cares if mage can one shot everyone if his aim is terrible)

Cuyler

Nightblade

Aevric wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

IMO all classes have their place to shine. Dks are the kings of AA and SO. Sorcs are the kings of HR. NBs are arguably the kings of DSA. And temps are healers. Not much else needs to be said lol.

I've played MMO's since their inception, and RPG's and Muds prior to that.
Those abbreviations you use in that statement make no sense whatsoever.

do you even ESO?

Dixa

ArRashid wrote: »

Anyone who wishes to fight like in EVERY TES GAME BEFORE ESO - using light and heavy attacks.

I love the idea of using skills for added bit of utility to your attacks (stun, slow, knockdown, etc), but seriously.. Zenimax messed up when they tried to force us into chaincasting spells and abilities as the only way to reach reasonable amount of DPS.


Oh god, I'd kill for a MMORPG where you still have to THINK:

- where the solo monsters are hard as heck

- where mobs of monsters are weak but they flank the heck out of you if you're alone

- where it matters which attacks you block (light, taking less of your stamina) and which you dodge (heavy, they are slower, thus easier to avoid without using stamina at all)

- where simultaneous attacks by both sides parry one another, nullifying damage (unless the strength difference is too much and Crushing Blow happens)

- where you can injure your party members by recklessly swinging your weapon, so you actually have to think twice before setting whole floor on fire

- where you use your skills as a last resort (as they cost stamina which you need for blocking)

- where shooting arrows or spells require actually aiming

- where combat is hard enough to push you to think out of the box and actually use your surroundings to your advantage

- where damage dealt is determined by location of the hit

- where combat is hard enough that the "dps" doesn't matter anymore, it's the survival that is your main objective

- where you can change reasonable amount of your character's visuals by ingame means (hair style, hair color, make-up, tattoos (permanent once set), scars (permanent once set), <within reasonable limits:> skin color (tanning/avoiding sun),..)

- where class balance is not defined by dps... but by your actual worth to the group and individual skills (who cares if mage can one shot everyone if his aim is terrible)

wildstar tried some of this. nobody played it. it's in even worse shape than this game sub wise.

class balance will always be defined by dps in pve, and burst in pvp in those mmorpg's that have them. expedient dungeon runs and/or ease of play trump everything for players with little time.

a lot of the rest you propose could not work correctly in a massively multiplayer game, or would make it so niche that the game itself would be considered an indy

Cuyler

Nightblade

There are really good players out there that have shown that all the classes are balanced. But from my own experience, my NB is the hardest for me to play. I don't play a Templar so no comment there.

Father

Templar

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

I presume you are being ironic?

Post this mythological 20K+ dps Sorcerer, or maybe just stop making stuff up and posting it... and don't bother with 20 second fights where ultimate was spammed and the target was debuffed up the wazzoo by the accompanying party members...

I don't need to prove you anything thats very common these days, go read @Deltia guide on sorcerer or watch him on youtube and you will see for yourself..or go read @dymence guide in Tamriel Foundary and you will see how SORCERER IS OP!

some SS by @Dymence :





ow yes sorcerer is weak...lets buff sorcerers again with more spell dmg 99999% bigger dmg shield and spell power.
seriously L2P.

sput4ueb17_ESO

Other:

It is the way you play - build you use that makes your class look weak or overpowered ...
I have seen good damaging scores from all classes

Derra

Sorcerer

Father wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

I presume you are being ironic?

Post this mythological 20K+ dps Sorcerer, or maybe just stop making stuff up and posting it... and don't bother with 20 second fights where ultimate was spammed and the target was debuffed up the wazzoo by the accompanying party members...

I don't need to prove you anything thats very common these days, go read @Deltia guide on sorcerer or watch him on youtube and you will see for yourself..or go read @dymence guide in Tamriel Foundary and you will see how SORCERER IS OP!

some SS by @Dymence :





ow yes sorcerer is weak...lets buff sorcerers again with more spell dmg 99999% bigger dmg shield and spell power.
seriously L2P.

Well honestly all your screenshots prove the point that sorc is not on par for pve endgame raid dps. Except for the scoria fight (too short) atleast DK can put up around 20% to 30% more dps than what you showcase. Thats significant.

DMG shields are absolutely irrelevant for pve as is burstdmg. Please keep your pvp bias out of the pve thread bc you seriously need to l2p if you´re still crying about sorcs.

Vraneon

Sorcerer

Father wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

I presume you are being ironic?

Post this mythological 20K+ dps Sorcerer, or maybe just stop making stuff up and posting it... and don't bother with 20 second fights where ultimate was spammed and the target was debuffed up the wazzoo by the accompanying party members...

I don't need to prove you anything thats very common these days, go read @Deltia guide on sorcerer or watch him on youtube and you will see for yourself..or go read @dymence guide in Tamriel Foundary and you will see how SORCERER IS OP!

some SS by @Dymence :





ow yes sorcerer is weak...lets buff sorcerers again with more spell dmg 99999% bigger dmg shield and spell power.
seriously L2P.

Those pictures just prove that the sorcerer remains lowest dps. I wouldn't tell other people to learn how to play or exaggerate so extremely. For every picture you posted there with some sorc dps, there are 2-4k higher numbers with dks, nightblades and Templars. I did the test with other good players from other classes and I have similar dps to the sorcs in the pictures.

Just a bit of explanation, because I don't want to bother too much about this over and over again, people not researching properly.

The first picture is a sorc using his ultimate only. meaning he had to stop using his ultimate for the last 4-5 mob groups or like 15mins, to charge his ultimate up to 1000. Also going for max magicka and spell dmg, probably having low sustain I would guess.

All other pictures are 12-16k dmg which isn't much. 12-13k is fine dps but nothing special at all.
To be honest the second picture is not true single target dps at all. When fighting valkyn skoria you have atleast 8-12 atronachs near him. With the usage of comet, meteor, atronach summons, liquid lightning, force pulse and thundering presence all doing aoe dmg, the picture wouldn't even really count.

Basically what you showed us are two pictures of single target dmg sorcerers doing 12-13k dmg.

Father

Templar

This is sustained dmg for 200+ sec fight with a magicka build and for the 20k dps I did say its a burst.
SORC is the easiest magicka dps class right now and the best you dont need to mash bottons as much as other classes.
I don't know what game you're playing mate...but in ESO EU on AD side lots of people ask for SORC in their groups just for the OP DPS make it vet dsa or trials more SORCS in a group = more ranged DPS.

Dymence

Vraneon wrote: »

Father wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

I presume you are being ironic?

Post this mythological 20K+ dps Sorcerer, or maybe just stop making stuff up and posting it... and don't bother with 20 second fights where ultimate was spammed and the target was debuffed up the wazzoo by the accompanying party members...

I don't need to prove you anything thats very common these days, go read @Deltia guide on sorcerer or watch him on youtube and you will see for yourself..or go read @dymence guide in Tamriel Foundary and you will see how SORCERER IS OP!

some SS by @Dymence :





ow yes sorcerer is weak...lets buff sorcerers again with more spell dmg 99999% bigger dmg shield and spell power.
seriously L2P.

Those pictures just prove that the sorcerer remains lowest dps. I wouldn't tell other people to learn how to play or exaggerate so extremely. For every picture you posted there with some sorc dps, there are 2-4k higher numbers with dks, nightblades and Templars. I did the test with other good players from other classes and I have similar dps to the sorcs in the pictures.

Just a bit of explanation, because I don't want to bother too much about this over and over again, people not researching properly.

The first picture is a sorc using his ultimate only. meaning he had to stop using his ultimate for the last 4-5 mob groups or like 15mins, to charge his ultimate up to 1000. Also going for max magicka and spell dmg, probably having low sustain I would guess.

All other pictures are 12-16k dmg which isn't much. 12-13k is fine dps but nothing special at all.
To be honest the second picture is not true single target dps at all. When fighting valkyn skoria you have atleast 8-12 atronachs near him. With the usage of comet, meteor, atronach summons, liquid lightning, force pulse and thundering presence all doing aoe dmg, the picture wouldn't even really count.

Basically what you showed us are two pictures of single target dmg sorcerers doing 12-13k dmg.

I think sorcs are pulling the highest single target in raids. Those screenshots are pretty outdated aswell.

And yes, it's all because of overload. A fight where you have 1000 ult is not rare at all.

byrom101b16_ESO

Sorcerer

@Father

So........ NO, you cannot find a single instance of a Sorcerer dps meter with '20K+' (your figure, not mine...) , and moreover, the only one that comes close is spamming an ultimate for the whole fight - which lasts little over a minute.

Thanks for proving my point!

I'll have to debate with you again if you are going to be so accommodating the next time!

X3ina

Nightblade

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

@Father

So........ NO, you cannot find a single instance of a Sorcerer dps meter with '20K+' (your figure, not mine...) , and moreover, the only one that comes close is spamming an ultimate for the whole fight - which lasts little over a minute.

Thanks for proving my point!

I'll have to debate with you again if you are going to be so accommodating the next time!

Truly to say ... you're completely wrong
From 1.6 and TU sorcs are really OP, u just have to know how to play it right.
For example i've pulled 16,5k on my sorc on a manti fight (personal record), but truly to say i completely forgot about my rotation, had non-optimal gear, not the best race choice etc + she is ranged.
From the other hand, my dk have pulled 18k dps max there (personal record), but ... its an optimal race, ever possible best gear + he stays melee.

So in my opinion its like a draw between magicka dps crown between sorc and dk, the difference is: sorc is a high burst damage and dk is slowpoke with his dots and on a mantikora fight i would prefer a sorcerer (simply because he can charge tonns of ultimates outside, before the group is full)

BrassRazoo

Sorcerer

Buff Sorc.

Dixa

weakest class by way of efficiently leveling through vr content all the way to 14 would be:

a nightblade without 2h
a sorc without pets
a Templar who foregoes the spear
a dk who only uses a bow
anyone without an aoe


pretty much it.

in dungeons it does not matter. they are not so tightly tuned that someone playing a garbage build can not meaningfully contribute - unless it's a sorc tank with 0 in health wearing light armor..

Dragnelus

All classes are relatively balanced.

I think its balanced. And in good hands the dk is best in tanking and healing and equal in dps with other classes.

olsborg

Templar

I was on the fence about this one, I tried a magicka templar and felt pretty weak, but then tried stamina templar and felt rather strong. As a sorceror and stamina..well thats not very viable in anything, but magicka sorcs was alright. Guess I should have voted sorceror, but meh.. Im throwing a bone to templars.

SosRuvaak

Nightblade

sorc is the most OP in pvp.
they can have infinite shields, they have massive amounts of magica/health regen.
oh... and also

teleport
SOO very annoying in a fight when you get them to 30% health and they just tp out of vision range. lovely class zenimax has set up for us.

byrom101b16_ESO

Sorcerer

X3ina wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

@Father

So........ NO, you cannot find a single instance of a Sorcerer dps meter with '20K+' (your figure, not mine...) , and moreover, the only one that comes close is spamming an ultimate for the whole fight - which lasts little over a minute.

Thanks for proving my point!

I'll have to debate with you again if you are going to be so accommodating the next time!

Truly to say ... you're completely wrong
From 1.6 and TU sorcs are really OP, u just have to know how to play it right.
For example i've pulled 16,5k on my sorc on a manti fight (personal record), but truly to say i completely forgot about my rotation, had non-optimal gear, not the best race choice etc + she is ranged.
From the other hand, my dk have pulled 18k dps max there (personal record), but ... its an optimal race, ever possible best gear + he stays melee.

So in my opinion its like a draw between magicka dps crown between sorc and dk, the difference is: sorc is a high burst damage and dk is slowpoke with his dots and on a mantikora fight i would prefer a sorcerer (simply because he can charge tonns of ultimates outside, before the group is full)

We have DKs upwards of 20K on Manti and no Sorcerer achieves above 16K without the best gear and rotation, so your statement is pretty unbelievable.

One of our Sorcs. gets ~19K on other bosses, and he is the best I've ever seen - with the best gear and single target dps build available in-game. My rotation is long-practiced and pretty sound and my gear is very good. I get around what you get.

If he cannot get 16.5 with all of that, you are blowing smoke, frankly.

Derra

Sorcerer

SosRuvaak wrote: »

sorc is the most OP in pvp.
they can have infinite shields, they have massive amounts of magica/health regen.
oh... and also

teleport
SOO very annoying in a fight when you get them to 30% health and they just tp out of vision range. lovely class zenimax has set up for us.

Look at the thread title - look back at your comment - look at the title again.

There is the exact same topic in the pvp skills/class section where you can happily discuss what you think is wrong with sorcerers in pvp. However it has nothing to do with pve content and thus no place in this topic.

SosRuvaak

Nightblade

Derra wrote: »

SosRuvaak wrote: »

sorc is the most OP in pvp.
they can have infinite shields, they have massive amounts of magica/health regen.
oh... and also

teleport
SOO very annoying in a fight when you get them to 30% health and they just tp out of vision range. lovely class zenimax has set up for us.

Look at the thread title - look back at your comment - look at the title again.

There is the exact same topic in the pvp skills/class section where you can happily discuss what you think is wrong with sorcerers in pvp. However it has nothing to do with pve content and thus no place in this topic.

My point is, that sorc can pretty much do the same thing in pve. a sorc can be brutally tanky in pve just as well as pvp.

also, a nightblade doesn't 1v2+ very well in pve either. theyre excelent for 1v1, but anything more is pushing it.

SIN-X

Father wrote: »

People here are trolling..Sorcerer is the best magicka class in the game and there is no competition in DPS with a sorcerer.
and yes the burst of a sorcerer with over 3k spell dmg with overload can do 20k+ single target dps just by weaving light attacks and thats waaaaaaay more than NB DPS who need to follow rotations and keep dots and weave like crazy.
same with dk that needs to mash his fingers to apply dots.. sorcerers FTW seriously.

I really don't understand some people here...

yea that sounds about right cause a sorc can keep overload up the whole time on every trial boss fight. Oh wait never mind your just a troll.

pWn3d_1337

Sorcerer

In endgame PvE it is sorcs for me. While levling sorc is fine, in PvP sorc is fine, but when it comes to vet dungeons and trials sorcs are weak. They currently are the worst class for tanking and healing, but also not the best DD. Just look at tamrielfoundry for DPS builds for all classes and you will realize that all of them can go higher dps than a sorc.

My order:
1&2. DK/Templar (Hard to choose)
3. Nightblade
4. Sorcerer

florian.billeb16_ESO

For me, sorcerer are the weakest class in PVE (raid)

1) Clearly the worst heal (no spell to help heal)
2) probably the worst tank (nothing special)

3) DD for DPS:
a) for trash AOE, nothing special and no possibility to use ultimate
b) for one target: not so bad with the overload ultimate, but clearly 20-30 % less than DK magicka, NB stam, or Templar Stam.

so... worst tank, worst heal, not good AOE DPS, weaker than NB, DB; templar.

Runefell

Sorcerer

The sorc is one of the more interesting classes, and I chose it, just because it's probably the least flexible. If you go with certain skills and builds, it does have the potential to be one of the most powerful solo builds and a very annoying PvP build to fight against. It doesn't really shine in dungeons, though. It's viable, certainly, and if the player is good, they're capable of holding up their end of the team, but it doesn't shine in anything in particular like the other classes certain can.

There's just no variety, though. And gods help you if you try a pure stamina build. Basically, it's no health, all magicka, ward, bolt escape, and pets (if you're solo'ing).

Joy_Division

Can the people here claiming DKs get 20K on the Mantikora provide some evidence *and* explanation on exactly how that is done please?

Valyndras

Templar

Templar Ranged Stamina DD (single target bow) is pretty bad in PvE atm.

seanvwolf

All classes are relatively balanced.

Vraneon wrote: »

When fighting valkyn skoria you have atleast 8-12 atronachs near him.

3 Atronachs. I have only ever seen a max of 4 (possibly a bug I experienced). When's the last time you ran vCoA? Have you ever run vCoA?