Magicka based vs stamina based

Domander

I think there is a disparity in this game.

Here are things you only have to deal with if you are magicka based (more so in pvp)

• Nirnhoned armor (this is a big one, and it really needs changed)
• harness magicka (annulment)
• Ball of lightning
• Eclipse
• Spell reflect (sword and shield)
• negate magic (silence)
• spell resist class passives
• light armor still gets increased spell resistance
• To be most effective you need to wear light armor, which has much much less armor vs medium.

Now for the stamina based list....

• um... there's a templar passive that increases block 15% vs melee which I would think only applies to stamina weapons and not magicka melee.
• boneshield

Lhorion

Boneshield is not a damage shield. The only reason using it could be the reflect morph that works. But a damage shield is just shown by your UI - it is not there.

Draxys

Not only these things, but at the same time, stamina damage output is way higher. You have to give up quite a bit of regen and max magicka to get 2k+ spell dmg, and I can get to 2k wpn dmg while barely even trying.

Stamden

Magika is pretty bad as long as your not playing a *** class that can infinitely shack shields and spam blink.

trimsic_ESO

This being said, magicka builds still rule the world in PVP.

ToRelax

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This being said, magicka builds still rule the world in PVP.

No...

jelliedsoup

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

Draxys

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This being said, magicka builds still rule the world in PVP.

lol

ToRelax

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

A stamina build can block/run/dodge a lot more than a magicka build, on top of that stamina weapon abilites have a lower cost.

Draxys

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

Don't worry we know this, and yes, stamina is still overpowered. No need to block in a stam build, dodging has you covered and it costs next to nothing and you can regen fast enough to do it forever. And stam builds with enough regen to do that can still hit harder than a magicka build at 2500 spell dmg that gave up all its regen to get that high.

Xevothian

Funny how you are complaining about this! I have two characters MAIN characters, one being magicka and one stamina. I have problems on BOTH pvp wise. Magicka Sorcerer, snipe snipe snipe. Dk stamina, fear fear fear. But hey, whatever.

Lhorion

I would welcome a skille like "Harness Magicka" against physical attacks. I don't mean "Boneshield", I want a skill that works. Imo stamina is not thaat OP, but maybe there is not that much counter. A working Boneshield would help (maybe two different types of Harness? One morph against magic damage, one against physical).

ToRelax

Xevothian wrote: »

Funny how you are complaining about this! I have two characters MAIN characters, one being magicka and one stamina. I have problems on BOTH pvp wise. Magicka Sorcerer, snipe snipe snipe. Dk stamina, fear fear fear. But hey, whatever.

You have problems playing either way and thus none of them is stronger than the other one?
Stamina DK and magicka Sorc are both very strong atm, you shouldn't have much problems. I take it you can't come up with arguments then?

jelliedsoup

Draxys wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

Don't worry we know this, and yes, stamina is still overpowered. No need to block in a stam build, dodging has you covered and it costs next to nothing and you can regen fast enough to do it forever. And stam builds with enough regen to do that can still hit harder than a magicka build at 2500 spell dmg that gave up all its regen to get that high.

Hyperbole doesn't help your case.

jelliedsoup

ToRelax wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

A stamina build can block/run/dodge a lot more than a magicka build, on top of that stamina weapon abilites have a lower cost.

In this game you make a choice to be stam or magicka. If you choose which you wamt you miss out on the other.

There are the super sorc builds who destroy my stam nb build.

Draxys

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

Don't worry we know this, and yes, stamina is still overpowered. No need to block in a stam build, dodging has you covered and it costs next to nothing and you can regen fast enough to do it forever. And stam builds with enough regen to do that can still hit harder than a magicka build at 2500 spell dmg that gave up all its regen to get that high.

Hyperbole doesn't help your case.

Dismissing arguments because you don't like them aren't helping yours. I didn't exaggerate at all, I'm speaking from experience and from other stamina users in guild.

Zsymon

Roll dodge isn't overpowered, it just added much needed survivability to stamina builds, who had none previously. Even now most stamina builds will die real fast the moment they stop roll dodging. Magicka builds have access to powerful shields and heals, strong skills such as Breath of Life, Healing Ward, Scales and Dark Cloak.. well-played magicka builds are simply more survivable and versatile, they have far more utility, and in the case of Sorcerers, far more and easier-applied damage than stamina builds.

A Curse/Frags combo will one shot most players, and when they pop Overload only the most skilled players can survive, they just wreck multiple players with one go of that ultimate, no other ultimate in the game can do that. It's like ZOS decided to break balance and just make Sorcerers completely overpowered on purpose, leaving other classes with mostly broken and/or useless skills. No one who wants to pvp will ever roll a Templar, unless he/she really wants to play a paladin.

eliisra

Draxys wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

Don't worry we know this, and yes, stamina is still overpowered. No need to block in a stam build, dodging has you covered and it costs next to nothing and you can regen fast enough to do it forever. And stam builds with enough regen to do that can still hit harder than a magicka build at 2500 spell dmg that gave up all its regen to get that high.

Gets a little bit worse actually. As a magicka build you also need to spec a fair bit into stamina and stamina recovery if you want to survive in PvP. Than more into block reduction and health, wear some heavy armor. Sacrificing even more of your recourse pools and dmg. Not everyone plays a blinker with a 65% class shield.

This while you as a stam build can run 7/7 medium. Go full stamina and stamina recovery for max dmg and dodge roll, without bothering with anything else.

However that's kinda not the topic. It's how magicka dps get's nullified and gimped by so much counter play. While there's no good counters against physical- or weapon dmg in the game. That's also why all organized lag trains have gone over to mainly stamina spam AoE.

"How many Steel Tornado do we have". That's like every single raid I've been in lately. While magicka is now for support, heals and some CC only. Doesn't cut it any more for dps. And no, Meteor is not a magicka skill, if there's any mislead peasants around.

Zsymon

Magicka will outshine stamina builds though in small-scale PvP, and that is a much more fun version of PvP. Zergs just went for a stamina version of the nerfed Impulse, very very boring.

Domander

Zsymon wrote: »

Magicka will outshine stamina builds though in small-scale PvP, and that is a much more fun version of PvP. Zergs just went for a stamina version of the nerfed Impulse, very very boring.

I'm not sure there is any truth to this....There are so many defenses against spells, if you're magicka, you are stacking the deck against yourself.

Draxys

Zsymon wrote: »

Magicka will outshine stamina builds though in small-scale PvP, and that is a much more fun version of PvP. Zergs just went for a stamina version of the nerfed Impulse, very very boring.

There are actually very few good solo/small scale players using magicka right now, outside of sorcs because they can shield stack to an absurd level.

Xevothian

ToRelax wrote: »

Xevothian wrote: »

Funny how you are complaining about this! I have two characters MAIN characters, one being magicka and one stamina. I have problems on BOTH pvp wise. Magicka Sorcerer, snipe snipe snipe. Dk stamina, fear fear fear. But hey, whatever.

You have problems playing either way and thus none of them is stronger than the other one?
Stamina DK and magicka Sorc are both very strong atm, you shouldn't have much problems. I take it you can't come up with arguments then?

As you said, "You shouldn't have much problems." "Much". I don't have many problems but i do have SOME problems. My argument is that both stamina and magicka are still strong in PvP, but it depends what class you are playing. So yes, i can come up with an argument. Sir.

Pancake-Tragedy

Xevothian wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Xevothian wrote: »

Funny how you are complaining about this! I have two characters MAIN characters, one being magicka and one stamina. I have problems on BOTH pvp wise. Magicka Sorcerer, snipe snipe snipe. Dk stamina, fear fear fear. But hey, whatever.

You have problems playing either way and thus none of them is stronger than the other one?
Stamina DK and magicka Sorc are both very strong atm, you shouldn't have much problems. I take it you can't come up with arguments then?

As you said, "You shouldn't have much problems." "Much". I don't have many problems but i do have SOME problems. My argument is that both stamina and magicka are still strong in PvP, but it depends what class you are playing. So yes, i can come up with an argument. Sir.

Sounds like balance to me. Not every setup should be able to deal with every situation.

Lorkhan

i have a magika gear and a stamina gear and i think both are powerfull sets.
magika can heal, what is decisive for group vs group.
stamina is plain dps. almost no group support, little to no heal (few have vigor unlocked)

if you are not satisfied with magika build, try the stamina one. you will see it is not so easy mode as you are thinking, and you will die a lot.

Tankqull

it sums up to this magica builds are completly fu..ed currently, while sorce have the longest of the shoortest sticks.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Most heals, shields, and cc are tied to magicka.
A magicka user gets to use way more of them (which is ironic since a melee user needs them more...).

Oh, range as well, unless you count Bows which aren't all that great.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

ToRelax wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

A stamina build can block/run/dodge a lot more than a magicka build, on top of that stamina weapon abilites have a lower cost.

false. Stamina builds do not have a lower cost. One perfect example is funnel health on my magicka NB cost 398 magicka. Not on stamina skill comes close to this. Concealed costs the same as surprise attack with similar CP invested and jewelry enchants.

as for everyone else:

Magicka builds with full light armor may be hindered by their armor and spell resist rating but all heals and most shields are magicka based. This is how basically all magicka builds survive. Stamina builds generally don't have any heals comparable.

In zergs there are both magicka and stamina builds. Not sure where some of you are trying to go with this. People spam impulse and sap essence just as much as people with bombard and steel tornado. Not to mention my magicka build was way more capable at escaping zergs than my stamina build. This is a moot point.

If you actually played since beta you would know stamina builds were basically horrible up until 1.6. They are FINALLY viable. Don't get mad because you have to relearn how to play. Your tactics have to change but magicka builds are still great.

I agree light armor is a bit to weak and needs a buff.

People who think stamina builds are easy mode should stop playing their magicka builds and go stamina. I guarantee you're going to die a lot. It's a whole different set of mechanics and timing that just isn't needed with magicka builds. I love my stamina build but I will admit it took a couple of weeks to get back to my level of playing that I had with my magicka build. Why did I switch you ask? A couple of reasons. One is I wanted to try a stamina build for a long time but as I said earlier, they sucked pre-1.6. Another reason is because magicka builds don't hit as hard as I'd like. I know many of you at least agree on this part. Stamina builds hit harder, most of the time that is. But magicka builds have more options for survivability than stamina. It would go back to being 1.5 if magicka builds could hit super hard and still have awesome survivability. That would not be good. People say perma dodge is OP but it's not even close. I get hit plenty by people spamming skills at the right time not to mention many skills just flat out are not dodged. Not sure if this is intended but it happens a lot, especially I notice is with crushing shock. No matter when or how I dodge the skill will 100% hit me every time.

So stop complaining about magicka builds being crap because they are not. You just have to adapt and overcome.

ToRelax

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

A stamina build can block/run/dodge a lot more than a magicka build, on top of that stamina weapon abilites have a lower cost.

false. Stamina builds do not have a lower cost. One perfect example is funnel health on my magicka NB cost 398 magicka. Not on stamina skill comes close to this. Concealed costs the same as surprise attack with similar CP invested and jewelry enchants.

[...]

I wrote weapon abilities. Stamina weapons have a powerful cost reduction passive for a reason.
And just for the record, I don't complain about the points I mentioned .

monkeymystic

Domander wrote: »

I think there is a disparity in this game.

Here are things you only have to deal with if you are magicka based (more so in pvp)

• Nirnhoned armor (this is a big one, and it really needs changed)
• harness magicka (annulment)
• Ball of lightning
• Eclipse
• Spell reflect (sword and shield)
• negate magic (silence)
• spell resist class passives
• light armor still gets increased spell resistance
• To be most effective you need to wear light armor, which has much much less armor vs medium.

Now for the stamina based list....

• um... there's a templar passive that increases block 15% vs melee which I would think only applies to stamina weapons and not magicka melee.
• boneshield

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno When are you going to balance this? It gets worse and worse as people get more CP and gets more defense against magicka, while physical dmg hits for more and more in opposite direction.

cozmon3c_ESO

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Just wondering if people realise you just use magicka for skills and stamina uses blocking running dodging and skills?

A stamina build can block/run/dodge a lot more than a magicka build, on top of that stamina weapon abilites have a lower cost.

false. Stamina builds do not have a lower cost. One perfect example is funnel health on my magicka NB cost 398 magicka. Not on stamina skill comes close to this. Concealed costs the same as surprise attack with similar CP invested and jewelry enchants.

as for everyone else:

Magicka builds with full light armor may be hindered by their armor and spell resist rating but all heals and most shields are magicka based. This is how basically all magicka builds survive. Stamina builds generally don't have any heals comparable.

In zergs there are both magicka and stamina builds. Not sure where some of you are trying to go with this. People spam impulse and sap essence just as much as people with bombard and steel tornado. Not to mention my magicka build was way more capable at escaping zergs than my stamina build. This is a moot point.

If you actually played since beta you would know stamina builds were basically horrible up until 1.6. They are FINALLY viable. Don't get mad because you have to relearn how to play. Your tactics have to change but magicka builds are still great.

I agree light armor is a bit to weak and needs a buff.

People who think stamina builds are easy mode should stop playing their magicka builds and go stamina. I guarantee you're going to die a lot. It's a whole different set of mechanics and timing that just isn't needed with magicka builds. I love my stamina build but I will admit it took a couple of weeks to get back to my level of playing that I had with my magicka build. Why did I switch you ask? A couple of reasons. One is I wanted to try a stamina build for a long time but as I said earlier, they sucked pre-1.6. Another reason is because magicka builds don't hit as hard as I'd like. I know many of you at least agree on this part. Stamina builds hit harder, most of the time that is. But magicka builds have more options for survivability than stamina. It would go back to being 1.5 if magicka builds could hit super hard and still have awesome survivability. That would not be good. People say perma dodge is OP but it's not even close. I get hit plenty by people spamming skills at the right time not to mention many skills just flat out are not dodged. Not sure if this is intended but it happens a lot, especially I notice is with crushing shock. No matter when or how I dodge the skill will 100% hit me every time.

So stop complaining about magicka builds being crap because they are not. You just have to adapt and overcome.

It looks like you are getting hit by crushing shock but in reality it is missing you when you are dodging and taking no damage from it. It just doesn't have a miss animation.

Davadin

Draxys wrote: »

Not only these things, but at the same time, stamina damage output is way higher. You have to give up quite a bit of regen and max magicka to get 2k+ spell dmg, and I can get to 2k wpn dmg while barely even trying.

WHAT?

I see a bunch of Wrecking Blows, yes.... but majority of deaths in Cyro is still freakin crystal fragment and snipes....

And spell/weapon dmg is NOT an indicator of DPS.

Go check out which skills uses it.

PS: plus magicka dont even need to get close to dish out damage...........