Superman Sorc Build and Ways to Counter it / Ideas / Skills to Use

Pirhana7_ESO

So after some feed back from this thread i have found that 2 skills are very useful. one is Fear but that is already known. But i found another that most NBs dont use and that is Agony. When fighting a sorc I threw agony on them every 8 seconds or so. The 3rd time or 2nd if you had already oepned with sneak attack stun, they run out of stamina and cannot CC break it.

At this point they are sitting there waiting for you to have a free attack chain on them. you can do 2 things. I liked (2) more.

(1) fear and unload with damage
(2) vanish and use Suprise Attack which hits hards, armor debuffs, sets offbalance and stuns for 4.6 seconds. As a bow spec currently i did 1 Focus shot followed by a Heavy attack which does double damage to off balance targets and knocks them down, then land one or 2 more Suprise Attacks before they can do anything. I did this to about 10 sorcs and noone has been able to survive it. I will have to try getting in 2 focuses shots before the heavy attack knock down but i'm not sure if there is enough time.

The only downside to using Agony is if anyone else is attacking the sorc they will break it, or break it before they have to use CC break.

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

ToRelax

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

Nivzruo_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I would put sheild charge on your bar. charge and fear, chances are one of those cc's will attack the sorcs stamina pool. keep doing that whenever the swirls disappear under there feet. if he trys to bolt away follow with shield charges.

for bow you can roll dodge to get extra minor speed, couple this with a major speed ability and you can keep up with a sorc, even out run him.

you dont seem to have a way to recover your health on your bar either, i would look into ways to get some healing so you dont just whither away and die, i know there is some stuff in the siphoning tree that can help.

a sorc is going to go down from burst damage done or run them out of stamina. your not really going to run them out of magicka, and thats the same for every magicka build really.

try stacking more stamina or weapon damage gear to do more burst damage.

things that kill me the most.
lethal arrow from stealth
suprise attack coupled with an ultimate from stealth.
crit charge and wrecking blow.
shield charges get me killed but its usually not the person with the sword and shield that kills me.
getting ultimates reflected at me
pretty much stamina nightblades in general kill me more then any other class.

things to do against sorc
roll dodge whenever you see a crystal frag coming, you will know its coming because the sorcs hands will start to glow.
roll dodge overload ultimate (i do this as a magicka sorc as well)
stay away from storm atronachs unless you interrupt them the whole time.
save your ultimates for when you cc a sorc and they dont have shield up any more.
cc them as much as possible
you are going to get cursed so this is why you need some kind of way to recover lost health. curse is delayed damage that can be applied while you dodge roll.
mages fury, dont go below 20% health around a sorc.

A sorc giving real advise on how to kill sorcs. Respect.

k2blader

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

Pirhana7_ESO

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with most of it. There are alot of sorc players out there that die often and allow people to fulfill their sorc kill quests. but from personal experience there seems to be more than a few very elite sorcs out there that other classes cant compete with. Yes these players are elite and skillful, but they are also being given what many feel is an elite character build to go with. you take that same player and give them another class and they cannot build a character anywhere near as strong as they could with that sorc. you let the same player fight 1v1 against his sorc and he loses to his sorc 9 out of 10 times.

Yes there are counters and we are trying to find what woks best and get good at them, BUT even that seems to be a struggle, you can do everything right and the sorc even makes mistakes but the sorc still wins. I just find myself saying " whys does such a strong dps and mobile class have such a strong damage shield too?" yes you can beat that super sorc build if you go after his stamina and not the shield but should that really be the ONLY way to beat them? you can beat every otehr class in many ways. just throwing that out there.

Xsorus

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

Or maybe they patched out some skill on your class instead?

Derra

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with most of it. There are alot of sorc players out there that die often and allow people to fulfill their sorc kill quests. but from personal experience there seems to be more than a few very elite sorcs out there that other classes cant compete with. Yes these players are elite and skillful, but they are also being given what many feel is an elite character build to go with. you take that same player and give them another class and they cannot build a character anywhere near as strong as they could with that sorc. you let the same player fight 1v1 against his sorc and he loses to his sorc 9 out of 10 times.

Yes there are counters and we are trying to find what woks best and get good at them, BUT even that seems to be a struggle, you can do everything right and the sorc even makes mistakes but the sorc still wins. I just find myself saying " whys does such a strong dps and mobile class have such a strong damage shield too?" yes you can beat that super sorc build if you go after his stamina and not the shield but should that really be the ONLY way to beat them? you can beat every otehr class in many ways. just throwing that out there.

To be honest - i think if you give me a class (DK and NB honestly - templar is crap atm) with my sorcs pvp rank/same quality gear and time to adjust to adjust my playstyle i´m pretty confident i could beat my sorc build more than 50% of the time. So much in the sorcs arsenal is easily countered it´s not even funny.
That is ofc when the sorc stays there fighting - you´ll never catch a running sorc 1v1.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

The strange thing is - i´m dying WAY more on my sorc than in 1.5. In fact in 1.5 if i would stay focused i was immortal with my 1800 hp 3k magica build. My shields we´re a little stronger, i could block ENDLESSLY (the reason i´m dying more now - it´s a non factor 1v1 but once you try to fight more ppl it´s way harder than it was), i had reflect myself and curse was not the blockable sh*t it is now.
The only reason i´m killing more now is crits being possible in pvp and HP pool being cut by 40%.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

Or maybe they patched out some skill on your class instead?

They really didn't change anything with respec to the build I ran though in terms of class wise, in fact they mostly buffed it in terms of class abilities (dots) the problem is sorcs got even more then the random crap thrown in just favored sorcs more then anything dk got.

I think the biggest nerf the dk actually got was maybe wings, but you will only notice that in 1vx fights... And I mainly used it for killing other DKs.

The biggest buff sorcs got though was the basic removal of crit immunity, which meant they do a crap ton more damage while keeping their crit immunity because shield stacking. In 1.5 both the dk and the sorc could basically be immune to crits, now it's pretty much sorcs and the other shield stackers

Septimus_Magna

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

Xsorus

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

3k+ weapon damage usually means low stamina recovery, a wood elf nightblade could still do good though

Xsorus

Derra wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with most of it. There are alot of sorc players out there that die often and allow people to fulfill their sorc kill quests. but from personal experience there seems to be more than a few very elite sorcs out there that other classes cant compete with. Yes these players are elite and skillful, but they are also being given what many feel is an elite character build to go with. you take that same player and give them another class and they cannot build a character anywhere near as strong as they could with that sorc. you let the same player fight 1v1 against his sorc and he loses to his sorc 9 out of 10 times.

Yes there are counters and we are trying to find what woks best and get good at them, BUT even that seems to be a struggle, you can do everything right and the sorc even makes mistakes but the sorc still wins. I just find myself saying " whys does such a strong dps and mobile class have such a strong damage shield too?" yes you can beat that super sorc build if you go after his stamina and not the shield but should that really be the ONLY way to beat them? you can beat every otehr class in many ways. just throwing that out there.

To be honest - i think if you give me a class (DK and NB honestly - templar is crap atm) with my sorcs pvp rank/same quality gear and time to adjust to adjust my playstyle i´m pretty confident i could beat my sorc build more than 50% of the time. So much in the sorcs arsenal is easily countered it´s not even funny.
That is ofc when the sorc stays there fighting - you´ll never catch a running sorc 1v1.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

The strange thing is - i´m dying WAY more on my sorc than in 1.5. In fact in 1.5 if i would stay focused i was immortal with my 1800 hp 3k magica build. My shields we´re a little stronger, i could block ENDLESSLY (the reason i´m dying more now - it´s a non factor 1v1 but once you try to fight more ppl it´s way harder than it was), i had reflect myself and curse was not the blockable sh*t it is now.
The only reason i´m killing more now is crits being possible in pvp and HP pool being cut by 40%.

Blocking in general is harder for everyone, I could block like a mad man in 1.5 with my stamina setup... Running that same setup in 1.6 would put me out of resources in a split second against pretty much anyone. I'm forced into more dodge rolling now. But since I'm not an nb wood elf my stamina recovery is crap.. I could get more but I'd be giving up damage and then I'd never break shields and thus would die

ToRelax

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

olsborg

Bipolo wrote: »

Killing good Sorc's as magicka DK?

1) Stand perfectly still
2) Igneous>Harness>Scales
3) Resto Heavy Attacks with Valkyn

Repeat 2) & 3)

Hope they kill themselves with boredom

Edit: Forgot to add 4) Fossilize, use it every time their CC immunity runs out just to annoy them... When they are out of stam you can choose to just walk away while they kneel

Killing magicka dks as a sorceror if the dks does the above.

1) Spam hardened ward.
2) Lightning heavy attack
3) BoL over them while they dont block just to annoy them.

Walk away once both ppl have understood that this is not going anywhere.

Mojomonkeyman

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with most of it. There are alot of sorc players out there that die often and allow people to fulfill their sorc kill quests. but from personal experience there seems to be more than a few very elite sorcs out there that other classes cant compete with. Yes these players are elite and skillful, but they are also being given what many feel is an elite character build to go with. you take that same player and give them another class and they cannot build a character anywhere near as strong as they could with that sorc. you let the same player fight 1v1 against his sorc and he loses to his sorc 9 out of 10 times.

Yes there are counters and we are trying to find what woks best and get good at them, BUT even that seems to be a struggle, you can do everything right and the sorc even makes mistakes but the sorc still wins. I just find myself saying " whys does such a strong dps and mobile class have such a strong damage shield too?" yes you can beat that super sorc build if you go after his stamina and not the shield but should that really be the ONLY way to beat them? you can beat every otehr class in many ways. just throwing that out there.

To be honest - i think if you give me a class (DK and NB honestly - templar is crap atm) with my sorcs pvp rank/same quality gear and time to adjust to adjust my playstyle i´m pretty confident i could beat my sorc build more than 50% of the time. So much in the sorcs arsenal is easily countered it´s not even funny.
That is ofc when the sorc stays there fighting - you´ll never catch a running sorc 1v1.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

The strange thing is - i´m dying WAY more on my sorc than in 1.5. In fact in 1.5 if i would stay focused i was immortal with my 1800 hp 3k magica build. My shields we´re a little stronger, i could block ENDLESSLY (the reason i´m dying more now - it´s a non factor 1v1 but once you try to fight more ppl it´s way harder than it was), i had reflect myself and curse was not the blockable sh*t it is now.
The only reason i´m killing more now is crits being possible in pvp and HP pool being cut by 40%.

Blocking in general is harder for everyone, I could block like a mad man in 1.5 with my stamina setup... Running that same setup in 1.6 would put me out of resources in a split second against pretty much anyone. I'm forced into more dodge rolling now. But since I'm not an nb wood elf my stamina recovery is crap.. I could get more but I'd be giving up damage and then I'd never break shields and thus would die

...and now imagine you`re a stamina sorcerer, basically missing all the tools that make your stam dk competetive. No shields, no GDB, no wings, no bosmer, no permadodging (1400 stam regen woohoo), no nothing...

And you know what? I don`t feel any difference to 1.5. Good magicka sorcs give a good fight and I can lose as much as I can win. Bad ones just die after the second cc. Your starting position is better than any stam sorc`s could ever be, yet you complain so much, I really don`t understand you...

Xsorus

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

[...]

I am still not sure if Agony is blockable? anyone know?

It's not. And tbh, those Sorcs must have been pretty crap .

What still kinda amazes me about this whole concept (threads specifically focused on how to kill sorcs)- there are all kinds of players out there and likely many who would be considered crap, or average (nothing wrong with that, everyone plays as much/well as interest and time allow). And I know logically there are many crap or average (beatable) sorcs out there. Yet I see all these posts as if no sorcs can be beat. When sorcs being killed happens every single day as accomplished by average, everyday players finishing up their sorc kill quests. Anyway, your post just made me contemplate it, again. :-D

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with most of it. There are alot of sorc players out there that die often and allow people to fulfill their sorc kill quests. but from personal experience there seems to be more than a few very elite sorcs out there that other classes cant compete with. Yes these players are elite and skillful, but they are also being given what many feel is an elite character build to go with. you take that same player and give them another class and they cannot build a character anywhere near as strong as they could with that sorc. you let the same player fight 1v1 against his sorc and he loses to his sorc 9 out of 10 times.

Yes there are counters and we are trying to find what woks best and get good at them, BUT even that seems to be a struggle, you can do everything right and the sorc even makes mistakes but the sorc still wins. I just find myself saying " whys does such a strong dps and mobile class have such a strong damage shield too?" yes you can beat that super sorc build if you go after his stamina and not the shield but should that really be the ONLY way to beat them? you can beat every otehr class in many ways. just throwing that out there.

To be honest - i think if you give me a class (DK and NB honestly - templar is crap atm) with my sorcs pvp rank/same quality gear and time to adjust to adjust my playstyle i´m pretty confident i could beat my sorc build more than 50% of the time. So much in the sorcs arsenal is easily countered it´s not even funny.
That is ofc when the sorc stays there fighting - you´ll never catch a running sorc 1v1.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

The strange thing is - i´m dying WAY more on my sorc than in 1.5. In fact in 1.5 if i would stay focused i was immortal with my 1800 hp 3k magica build. My shields we´re a little stronger, i could block ENDLESSLY (the reason i´m dying more now - it´s a non factor 1v1 but once you try to fight more ppl it´s way harder than it was), i had reflect myself and curse was not the blockable sh*t it is now.
The only reason i´m killing more now is crits being possible in pvp and HP pool being cut by 40%.

Blocking in general is harder for everyone, I could block like a mad man in 1.5 with my stamina setup... Running that same setup in 1.6 would put me out of resources in a split second against pretty much anyone. I'm forced into more dodge rolling now. But since I'm not an nb wood elf my stamina recovery is crap.. I could get more but I'd be giving up damage and then I'd never break shields and thus would die

...and now imagine you`re a stamina sorcerer, basically missing all the tools that make your stam dk competetive. No shields, no GDB, no wings, no bosmer, no permadodging (1400 stam regen woohoo), no nothing...

And you know what? I don`t feel any difference to 1.5. Good magicka sorcs give a good fight and I can lose as much as I can win. Bad ones just die after the second cc. Your starting position is better than any stam sorc`s could ever be, yet you complain so much, I really don`t understand you...

Umm, very few stamina dks use shields.., most quit using gdb once vigor is available..bosmer isn't a dk thing, and stamina regen for dks isn't super amazing either, and you have access to Bol which works decently enough, though bow shots will still wreck ya.

My stamina regen on my dk by the way is 900 with tto pot

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

Or maybe they patched out some skill on your class instead?

They really didn't change anything with respec to the build I ran though in terms of class wise, in fact they mostly buffed it in terms of class abilities (dots) the problem is sorcs got even more then the random crap thrown in just favored sorcs more then anything dk got.

I think the biggest nerf the dk actually got was maybe wings, but you will only notice that in 1vx fights... And I mainly used it for killing other DKs.

The biggest buff sorcs got though was the basic removal of crit immunity, which meant they do a crap ton more damage while keeping their crit immunity because shield stacking. In 1.5 both the dk and the sorc could basically be immune to crits, now it's pretty much sorcs and the other shield stackers

Do I really need to list out all of the listed an unlisted nerfs and changes that negatively impacted Sorc in 1.6?

Let's start with:
Light Armor nerf - Both Physical and Magicka Spell resistance gutted which coupled with the loss of 40% bonus health makes wearing light armor squishier than ever.
Medium Armor/Heavy Armor massive Spell resistance base increases
Shield Stacking Nerfed by 15%
Negate virtually useless
Surge gcd on heal destroyed viability
Nirnhoned Trait bugged further doubling the Spell Resistance of knowledgeable players
Sharpened and Spell Penetration in general Nerfed (again)
Elemental Mage Nerf (BoL and all Storm abilites +10% cost)
Dodge roll cost massively increased(went from being able to do it 4 times to 2)
Ball of Lightning Nerfed to no longer absorb heavy attacks....bugged further because of this nerf
Bolt Escape auto immunity granted
Velocious curse now blockable

Now I'm not saying sorcs suck or anything of the nature and we even received a few decent damage buffs but as others have mentioned and I have mentioned, I die 10 times more than I used to in 1.5 I used to count on 1 hand the number of times I'd die in PvP in a day of PvP.

You saying Sorcs are 10 times harder to kill in 1.6 is disingenuous at best, if not a flat out falsehood as I don't know of a single Sorc (and I know many) who feels they are harder to kill in 1.6

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

ToRelax

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

I mean just the 5 pc bonus seems nice until you calculate *exactly* the best case scenario of how much it saves you and then you realize the 99% of the time you're not even playing under the best case scenario. And those other set bonuses are pretty awful. Basically there are better 5 pc bonuses with far more useful 2,3 and 4 piece bonuses. It's not a bad set but it's not really that good from a min/maxers perspective and the way ZoS handles math.

Rylana

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

I mean just the 5 pc bonus seems nice until you calculate *exactly* the best case scenario of how much it saves you and then you realize the 99% of the time you're not even playing under the best case scenario. And those other set bonuses are pretty awful. Basically there are better 5 pc bonuses with far more useful 2,3 and 4 piece bonuses. It's not a bad set but it's not really that good from a min/maxers perspective and the way ZoS handles math.

I was under the distinct impression that people were only really using 5 or 6 two piece set bonuses with maybe a 3 piece set bonus thrown in there for the odd piece (reflected by the hilarious market value of certain items currently)

Like I know with sword/shield or dual wielding its completely possible to stack six 2-piece bonuses of spell damage right now (at a premium of over a million gold) if someone takes the time to piecemeal together sets. As far as I know there are only two combos that work since the sets come in specific armor/jewelry but ya.

Martial, Arch, Adroit,Torugs, etc.

Five piece sets are kinda crap overall, end up with crap 2,3,4 stats like the wrong regen stat or armor or something for a specific damage magicka build blah.

ToRelax

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

I mean just the 5 pc bonus seems nice until you calculate *exactly* the best case scenario of how much it saves you and then you realize the 99% of the time you're not even playing under the best case scenario. And those other set bonuses are pretty awful. Basically there are better 5 pc bonuses with far more useful 2,3 and 4 piece bonuses. It's not a bad set but it's not really that good from a min/maxers perspective and the way ZoS handles math.

You don't have to agree but out of heavy armor, drinks and Arena (or any combination of those) to handle stamina, Arena works best with my playstyle. You can calculate all you want, in the end it's more dependant on my playstyle, how I react to specific situations, that matters - I could adjust that, but this is what I did for the most part anyway, and Arena synergizes perfectly well.

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

You don't have to agree but out of heavy armor, drinks and Arena (or any combination of those) to handle stamina, Arena works best with my playstyle. You can calculate all you want, in the end it's more dependant on my playstyle, how I react to specific situations, that matters - I could adjust that, but this is what I did for the most part anyway, and Arena synergizes perfectly well.

Wasn't trying to be critical, I used to have a similar view of it until I looked at the alternatives 5 crafted pieces of another set could give me. The 5 piece bonus by itself is pretty good, but the other 3 bonuses...really only 1 of them will be good for you no matter how you play. That's the big cost of the set.

Ezareth

Rylana wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

I mean just the 5 pc bonus seems nice until you calculate *exactly* the best case scenario of how much it saves you and then you realize the 99% of the time you're not even playing under the best case scenario. And those other set bonuses are pretty awful. Basically there are better 5 pc bonuses with far more useful 2,3 and 4 piece bonuses. It's not a bad set but it's not really that good from a min/maxers perspective and the way ZoS handles math.

I was under the distinct impression that people were only really using 5 or 6 two piece set bonuses with maybe a 3 piece set bonus thrown in there for the odd piece (reflected by the hilarious market value of certain items currently)

Like I know with sword/shield or dual wielding its completely possible to stack six 2-piece bonuses of spell damage right now (at a premium of over a million gold) if someone takes the time to piecemeal together sets. As far as I know there are only two combos that work since the sets come in specific armor/jewelry but ya.

Martial, Arch, Adroit,Torugs, etc.

Five piece sets are kinda crap overall, end up with crap 2,3,4 stats like the wrong regen stat or armor or something for a specific damage magicka build blah.

Yeah 6 spellpower is totally doable. I have a max DPS damage build I'll probably throw together for a 1-shot crit clip video but I wouldn't really consider that kind of stuff PvP viable. The guys who hit hardest typically go down quick.

Rylana

Ezareth wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

I used to think Arena was good until I ran the math. It's not (currently).

Depends on how much magicka regen and spellpenetration you are aiming for I'd say.

I mean just the 5 pc bonus seems nice until you calculate *exactly* the best case scenario of how much it saves you and then you realize the 99% of the time you're not even playing under the best case scenario. And those other set bonuses are pretty awful. Basically there are better 5 pc bonuses with far more useful 2,3 and 4 piece bonuses. It's not a bad set but it's not really that good from a min/maxers perspective and the way ZoS handles math.

I was under the distinct impression that people were only really using 5 or 6 two piece set bonuses with maybe a 3 piece set bonus thrown in there for the odd piece (reflected by the hilarious market value of certain items currently)

Like I know with sword/shield or dual wielding its completely possible to stack six 2-piece bonuses of spell damage right now (at a premium of over a million gold) if someone takes the time to piecemeal together sets. As far as I know there are only two combos that work since the sets come in specific armor/jewelry but ya.

Martial, Arch, Adroit,Torugs, etc.

Five piece sets are kinda crap overall, end up with crap 2,3,4 stats like the wrong regen stat or armor or something for a specific damage magicka build blah.

Yeah 6 spellpower is totally doable. I have a max DPS damage build I'll probably throw together for a 1-shot crit clip video but I wouldn't really consider that kind of stuff PvP viable. The guys who hit hardest typically go down quick.

Yeah I suppose thats true. My sorc is very squishy, would never be a solo or duel type spec, id never go anywhere without a healer honestly, but she hits 18k or so crystal frag crits (i know there are those that can do more, im only using 4x2 and 1x3 so five total SP bonuses). Do have a high magicka pool so my shields are massive, but i cant keep spamming them and do damage at the same time like some of you all regen builds can.

Very single role specific. Not something id recommend for someone trying to be as OP was suggesting, just something I put out there as that build is kinda "super" in its own way for a group specific role, though a stamina arrow or 2hander build still does more raw DPS.

Soris

Bipolo wrote: »

Killing good Sorc's as magicka DK?

1) Stand perfectly still
2) Igneous>Harness>Scales
3) Resto Heavy Attacks with Valkyn

Repeat 2) & 3)

Hope they kill themselves with boredom

Edit: Forgot to add 4) Fossilize, use it every time their CC immunity runs out just to annoy them... When they are out of stam you can choose to just walk away while they kneel

Hahah I just imagined that instead of walking away but doing /idle5 while they are kneeling before you. Hilarious

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well I can tell you I fought many of these elite sorcs in 1.5 as a stamina dk and they were way easier to fight and kill. Come 1.6 they are magically 10x harder to fight. So yea.. They must if patched in skill

Or maybe they patched out some skill on your class instead?

They really didn't change anything with respec to the build I ran though in terms of class wise, in fact they mostly buffed it in terms of class abilities (dots) the problem is sorcs got even more then the random crap thrown in just favored sorcs more then anything dk got.

I think the biggest nerf the dk actually got was maybe wings, but you will only notice that in 1vx fights... And I mainly used it for killing other DKs.

The biggest buff sorcs got though was the basic removal of crit immunity, which meant they do a crap ton more damage while keeping their crit immunity because shield stacking. In 1.5 both the dk and the sorc could basically be immune to crits, now it's pretty much sorcs and the other shield stackers

Do I really need to list out all of the listed an unlisted nerfs and changes that negatively impacted Sorc in 1.6?

Let's start with:
Light Armor nerf - Both Physical and Magicka Spell resistance gutted which coupled with the loss of 40% bonus health makes wearing light armor squishier than ever.
Medium Armor/Heavy Armor massive Spell resistance base increases
Shield Stacking Nerfed by 15%
Negate virtually useless
Surge gcd on heal destroyed viability
Nirnhoned Trait bugged further doubling the Spell Resistance of knowledgeable players
Sharpened and Spell Penetration in general Nerfed (again)
Elemental Mage Nerf (BoL and all Storm abilites +10% cost)
Dodge roll cost massively increased(went from being able to do it 4 times to 2)
Ball of Lightning Nerfed to no longer absorb heavy attacks....bugged further because of this nerf
Bolt Escape auto immunity granted
Velocious curse now blockable

Now I'm not saying sorcs suck or anything of the nature and we even received a few decent damage buffs but as others have mentioned and I have mentioned, I die 10 times more than I used to in 1.5 I used to count on 1 hand the number of times I'd die in PvP in a day of PvP.

You saying Sorcs are 10 times harder to kill in 1.6 is disingenuous at best, if not a flat out falsehood as I don't know of a single Sorc (and I know many) who feels they are harder to kill in 1.6

1. Physical and spell resistance don't matter when ya can use shields. So not really a nerf. You can also still cap spell resistance with nirnhoned so yea...
2. You can cap with light armor with nirn, you also don't need to with shields.. So not an advantage
3. This is true, but since they removed caps you can get greater shields then you had before.
4. True but they made overload vastly better.
5. Maybe in pve, in pvp since everyone was running crit resist the change was a buff since it now actually procs, they also upped your other passive heal and gave you another heal as well, granted you won't use it when you have healing ward.
6. Not bugged, working how it's suppose to, and even though they are nerfing it down.. They will need to occupy it with a sorc nerf to keep balance in check
7. I don't know, you can still get enough pen to virtually wipe out spell resist of someone not over capping
8. They gave you a damage passive that ends up being better since you don't have mama issues anyway as a sorc
9. This applies to everyone. You act like it only effects sorcs
10. This is probably bugged
11. Hard stuns generally grant cc immunity
12. This is a nerf and a buff at the same time, while you can block it, blocking is far more stamina intensive then before, meaning you run out of stamina more often.. They also increased this spells damage if I recall

As for you claiming you are easier to kill, again I fought pretty much every single sorc out there. sorcs were far easier to kill in 1.5... The only people who think sorcs are easier to kill are other sorcs...

Why you seem to have a problem grasping why there is all of a sudden a dozen sorc threads on this page.. And somehow believing you are easier to kill at the same time is mind boggling. If your class was easier to kill... There wouldn't be those 12 nerf sorc threads...

Septimus_Magna

ToRelax wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

You would only have to invest in a 5 piece for cc break. The stam reduction and regen can easily come from combining cp reduction with werewolf or vampire. It's not like it even takes cp investment to have great mana regen or reduction. Damage hardly falls flat while making cc break a joke to recast.

True, that.
I can't say it to often, nearly unlimited resource builds are the problem, coupled with high damage in 1.6 - In 1.5 I couldn't just use my Arena set, I really needed Seducer. Now I can have a ton of resources and cost reduction, sustain fights longer even with lower regen rates than in 1.5. And I could easily have 50% more regen than what i was running back then. It's just not even needed.

I think high sustain builds lack damage, I also use 5-set seducer for the regen and reduced cost and I only have 1.7k spell damage buffed (all legendary gear). Thats nothing compared to 3k+ weapon damage some stamina builds are running for example. Its not surprising that glass canon builds have problems surviving and sustaining, its in the definition of glass canon after all.

Edit: As said before, a sorcs weakest point is his stamina. Draining a sorcs stamina + CC will give any class a chance of winning.

With 32k magicka and nothing in spell damage, I hit hard enough. And like I just said, I use Arena. It's not unlimited resources that makes me as strong as I am, but the ease at wich I could get them, allowing me to trade off some regen for max stats and break free cost decrease. You can't just drain out my stam, it's impossible 1v1.

Thats my point, you have sacrificed damage for sustain in order to survive. You still hit hard with 32k magicka but it could be a lot more if you went full spell damage/max magicka build. People who use high damage builds (for example gankers) complain sorcs are too strong, while in fact they problem is they have no damage mitigation/survivability and thats why they die so easily.