Can someone explain the appeal of the zerg

The_Death_Princess

Guilds are 500 people. Groups are 24 people.

It makes sense for any of those 500 to work together for an objective, thus grouping. Skilled groupings like the one I run with actually have multiple groups doing different functions while communication is in real time.

Zerging comes from the removal of the camps I agree, with the need to travel. Why would groups not travel together?

Dont get zerging confused with the lag. We ran 3 groups together last night and had no issue with lag unless we came across this one group of only 24..... (~75 v 24).

jelliedsoup

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Buy a game advertised for its massive scale PvP.

Create a thread about how you don't understand the appeal of big groups.

Make me wonder where it went wrong.

If you bought it for the zerging makes me wonder.

k2blader

What I don't get is how there can be a zerg when no one even invites to a group. I'm often wondering if everyone else around me is also soloing or is in some guild I've never heard of that's running with a no outsiders policy.

mwsacto_ESO

Not sure what is a Zerg in an AvAvA game.

DisgracefulMind

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK, I'll give this a shot.


[*] Last night during a siege at ASH, I saw this would-be sneaky yellow sorcerer trying to set up a fire ballista at a friendly resource. So I put on my "dueling" gear and decide to take on the sorc despite her general OPness. After about 30 seconds of what would have been an entertaining 1 v 1 fight the sort of anti-zergers enjoy, which I was very much winning, Arcane Requiem and his crew of 4 buddies show up an wipe us both out in like 5 seconds. Pick your adjective: frustrated, annoyed, deprived, whatever. Point is no matter how skillfully I played, because I left the "zerg" I could not participate in the battle at Ash and had to play horse-riding simulator.
[*] Call me silly *choruses of "You're silly" come from the peanut gallery* but I dislike dying. I mean, I really hate it. I know there is no tangible penalty. I know it's even sometime advantageous to die. I still have some sort of physiological aversion to seeing the death screen. Even when my entire groups "suicides," I won't do it. I'll hop on my horse and take the extra few minutes to go wherever is the intended destination. Sociologists and biologists would probably theorize that I am the sort of player that would gravitate toward "zergs" much in the way animals gather into herds. I don't think we need to get all academic or it's a very big mystery. If Arcane Requiem didn't hang around with his 4 buddies I would be much less adverse to traveling solo.
[/list]

It's usually just the two of us. In fact, if it's not just us two, it's us solo. In the past week we've never had more than three with us, and if we do have three, then it's not for very long. So those other 2 buddies, I don't know who they are, and they were just most likely following. But for future reference, usually just solo or duo.

I'm sorry we ruined your duel. Usually we try to stop and let people keep dueling, next time just let one of us know. (:

Joy_Division

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK, I'll give this a shot.


[*] Last night during a siege at ASH, I saw this would-be sneaky yellow sorcerer trying to set up a fire ballista at a friendly resource. So I put on my "dueling" gear and decide to take on the sorc despite her general OPness. After about 30 seconds of what would have been an entertaining 1 v 1 fight the sort of anti-zergers enjoy, which I was very much winning, Arcane Requiem and his crew of 4 buddies show up an wipe us both out in like 5 seconds. Pick your adjective: frustrated, annoyed, deprived, whatever. Point is no matter how skillfully I played, because I left the "zerg" I could not participate in the battle at Ash and had to play horse-riding simulator.
[*] Call me silly *choruses of "You're silly" come from the peanut gallery* but I dislike dying. I mean, I really hate it. I know there is no tangible penalty. I know it's even sometime advantageous to die. I still have some sort of physiological aversion to seeing the death screen. Even when my entire groups "suicides," I won't do it. I'll hop on my horse and take the extra few minutes to go wherever is the intended destination. Sociologists and biologists would probably theorize that I am the sort of player that would gravitate toward "zergs" much in the way animals gather into herds. I don't think we need to get all academic or it's a very big mystery. If Arcane Requiem didn't hang around with his 4 buddies I would be much less adverse to traveling solo.
[/list]

It's usually just the two of us. In fact, if it's not just us two, it's us solo. In the past week we've never had more than three with us, and if we do have three, then it's not for very long. So those other 2 buddies, I don't know who they are, and they were just most likely following. But for future reference, usually just solo or duo.

I'm sorry we ruined your duel. Usually we try to stop and let people keep dueling, next time just let one of us know. (:

It wasn't a duel, just me trying to kill a would be sneaky yellow. And I am certainly not complaining as I also do the same thing you did to me unless it's an OBVIOUS duel (i.e. people watching). Just commenting on the realities of Cyrodiil and why people may be hesitant to wonder alone.

Joy_Division

pppontus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why it is so obvious that we can appreciate the sort of 1 vs 1 fight I had against the sneaky yellow sorcerer, yet the sort of epic battles involving large numbers of combatants need explanation? Seriously, how is this a mystery that you "can't get"? Before you tell me because it lags out the server, read the palpable dismissive language people who dislike "zergs" used to describe them: "no fun, "no skill," "brainless," etc., that have nothing to due with lag.

Basically, because zergs are the ones who all stand inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server.

I appreciate fights with large numbers, even more so when (actually) outnumbered. But I do not think that there's any skill involved in the groups who just continually spam one and the same AOE (steel tornado, healing springs, impulse - take your pick) and occasionally purge/rapid.

Yeah.. wow you can run together and use 24 players to steamroll 3, congrats. It's just annoying, I greatly prefer getting ganked actually. Because at least then you can do something, you can't when you get crit charged by 36 people simultaneously.

Edit: forgot to even mention the lovely people who use the lag invulnerability to flip flags without killing anyone. Just stand there and have large numbers. GJ, u win.

So your screenshots show you partaking in "zerg" battles. Are YOU just standing in the corner "inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server"? No? But those cheating, lagsploiting, and unsavory Reds are, right? OK.......

And, if you are getting crit charged by 36 people, they aren't "just continually spam one and the same AOE" and lagging out the server, are they?

DisgracefulMind

Joy_Division wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK, I'll give this a shot.


[*] Last night during a siege at ASH, I saw this would-be sneaky yellow sorcerer trying to set up a fire ballista at a friendly resource. So I put on my "dueling" gear and decide to take on the sorc despite her general OPness. After about 30 seconds of what would have been an entertaining 1 v 1 fight the sort of anti-zergers enjoy, which I was very much winning, Arcane Requiem and his crew of 4 buddies show up an wipe us both out in like 5 seconds. Pick your adjective: frustrated, annoyed, deprived, whatever. Point is no matter how skillfully I played, because I left the "zerg" I could not participate in the battle at Ash and had to play horse-riding simulator.
[*] Call me silly *choruses of "You're silly" come from the peanut gallery* but I dislike dying. I mean, I really hate it. I know there is no tangible penalty. I know it's even sometime advantageous to die. I still have some sort of physiological aversion to seeing the death screen. Even when my entire groups "suicides," I won't do it. I'll hop on my horse and take the extra few minutes to go wherever is the intended destination. Sociologists and biologists would probably theorize that I am the sort of player that would gravitate toward "zergs" much in the way animals gather into herds. I don't think we need to get all academic or it's a very big mystery. If Arcane Requiem didn't hang around with his 4 buddies I would be much less adverse to traveling solo.
[/list]

It's usually just the two of us. In fact, if it's not just us two, it's us solo. In the past week we've never had more than three with us, and if we do have three, then it's not for very long. So those other 2 buddies, I don't know who they are, and they were just most likely following. But for future reference, usually just solo or duo.

I'm sorry we ruined your duel. Usually we try to stop and let people keep dueling, next time just let one of us know. (:

It wasn't a duel, just me trying to kill a would be sneaky yellow. And I am certainly not complaining as I also do the same thing you did to me unless it's an OBVIOUS duel (i.e. people watching). Just commenting on the realities of Cyrodiil and why people may be hesitant to wonder alone.

Ah okay. Just wanted to make sure we didn't ruin a duel or anything. We both duel and respect duelers a lot.
And I do agree, there are those certain players that make you not want to wander around. But eventually you get to the point to where you have to brave it out, and then you get comfortable enough to roam on your own
Or make friends with those players. Most won't attack you once you do, in my experience. There's plenty of really strong players we know who stop and wave and go on their way because of that.
I think Cyrodiil is what you make it out to be. Whether that's playing in a group, following the zerg, or doing your own thing.

Lava_Croft

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Buy a game advertised for its massive scale PvP.

Create a thread about how you don't understand the appeal of big groups.

Make me wonder where it went wrong.

If you bought it for the zerging makes me wonder.

I bought it for the massive scale PvP and massive scale PvP will inevitably lead to zerging. While I did not buy the game because I like zergs, I fully knew zergs would be a part of ESO PvP.

I guess you didn't...

kewl

Safety in numbers. It's warm. Usually the group with greater numbers wins.

TheLaw

Zerg-fests create the illusion of skill. It appeals to the masses. When (if) we ever see arenas/bgs, that's all going to change.

Cody

Competitiveness.

No more, no less. there are people that want to win, and will do so at all costs.

#Argonianmasterrace

Cody

and i find it extremely interesting that all the people coming into this thread, explaining what a zerg is, and explaining how to differentiate it from a "group" have failed to realize that we know full and well what a zerg is. heck some one posted a pic showing full well that at least one person here knows what a zerg is. Yet these people are here, giving the usual "this is not a zerg" response, and using it to justify zerg blobbing.

I just find that interesting, carry on:)

#Argonianmasterrace

Lava_Croft

So The Elder Scrolls' equivalent of The Zerg is a master race, but zerging is bad?

Uhm.

golfer.dub17_ESO

So, someone tell me if I'm completely off base or not doing it right, but this is my typical AvAvA experience.

Two giant groups clash in the area between keeps. Eventually one grows a pair and starts pushing the other back. If you are the one pushing, you converge on the same people that other people are converging on, killing them instantly and getting a tiny amount of xp and ap. If you are the one retreating, you are killed by six people.

Eventually, one group reaches the others' keep, spams siege weapons for awhile, then kills everyone inside before you can even do anything yourself. Then process repeats.

No prolonged fights, no duels, simply swarm or be swarmed. Oh, except the occasion where you have the entire group chasing a single sorcerer or an emperor tank being beat on for ages by the entire group.

Occasionally you will be traveling back to the keep after you die during the siege phase of the aforementioned scenario, then get ganked by a stealthed group of five people along the way.

What I don't get is how there can be a zerg when no one even invites to a group. I'm often wondering if everyone else around me is also soloing or is in some guild I've never heard of that's running with a no outsiders policy.

"PRESS 444 FOR GROUP. MUST HAVE TEAMSPEAK, AN ACCOUNT ON OUR WEBSITE, AND BE A MEMBER OF OUR ELITE GUILD".

Cody

Lava_Croft wrote: »

So The Elder Scrolls' equivalent of The Zerg is a master race, but zerging is bad?

Uhm.

#argonianswillonedayruletamriel

Bouvin

Most fun I've had to date in PvP is 5v5 or so size battles. Lots of fun.

Zerg is for taking keep or farming ap. That's about it...

wanderlustx5

Because they hate to fight alone and love lag? But really im happy that ballistas were buffed its about the only way to counter the mindless chain of people running in circles. Or you could do what I do and run behind enemy zergs and pick off the zerglings who lag behind a little repeatedly as the entire chain runs ahead. You can even set up fire ballistas and nuke them from behind and the head of the zerg takes so long to turn you can stow up and move and do it again. (helps to have rapid and be a NB so you can disappear when needed)

Kas

most people think of themselves as (far) above-average (and above median) players.
obviously this can't be the truth.
many players like to think "i solo killed 5" when meanwhile those 5 killed 4 freindly players and another friendly player survived. the think of themselves as solos but instead go with the zerg.

eventually they don#t want to wait an enternity to find enemies and they go "where the action is". 20 players do so and there's your zerg.

others run as groups, look for engangements of equal size and will look at all enemies but only on their group screen to assess their own numbers. some adding "solo" players join and make them a huge zerg. voilà, no one set out to zerg but in the end 20+ fight 20++

...
and behind that 20v35 some sorc from time to time snipes 10 players focused on the other zerg and uploads a "1v10" video...

Kas

pppontus wrote: »

But I get it, zerging's great for people who can't do anything otherwise. Just another lagbattle:



6 or so DC defenders. You tell me how many meteorspamming attackers.





If you're wondering why people are calling the zerg "not fun", "no skill", "brainless" - that's your answer right there.

how did you take the screenshots if you weren't there?

pppontus

Joy_Division wrote: »

So your screenshots show you partaking in "zerg" battles. Are YOU just standing in the corner "inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server"? No? But those cheating, lagsploiting, and unsavory Reds are, right? OK.......

Actually, yes. LOL. I love this, you thought you were gonna nail me on something. I don't even have an AOE skill there, I would rather Alt+F4 than stand in one position, spam a skill and do jack *** for half an hour.

I also for scientific purposes walked alone right into the enemy train and just stood there, nothing even happened...

Kas wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

But I get it, zerging's great for people who can't do anything otherwise. Just another lagbattle:



6 or so DC defenders. You tell me how many meteorspamming attackers.





If you're wondering why people are calling the zerg "not fun", "no skill", "brainless" - that's your answer right there.

how did you take the screenshots if you weren't there?

Ehm? Was I not there now?

I went to defend a keep, turns out that was not possible because the lagspammingmeteorhealingspringsofdeathtrain was there. I took a few screenshots and logged off.

I already *** told everyone, all factions participate in this asshattery. I'd rather be able to actually play the game, so I don't.

Which on the other hand means a lot of Alt+F4 and not logging back in again as everyone playing the game seems to prefer to run in a lagspammingmeteorhealingspringsofdeathtrain and then come to the forums and complain about the lag that they themselves cause. But of course, they think that they don't cause the lag and that only their enemies cause lag, which is the biggest LOL. Priceless

Sacadon

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance. No zerg calls themselves a zerg. No zerg thinks they are in a zerg. When a large group fights another large group with an equal or slightly greater number of players and loses, they say "awww we got zerged!"

The most hilarious part of this is the server migration we are currently seeing. Zergs don't like fighting zergs so they bring their whole zerg guild to a less populated campaign and exclaim how much better it is as they are wiping forces much smaller then them.

Those smaller enemy forces inevitably cry for help and bring enemy zerg guilds. Suddenly the lag goes up, the competition increases, said zerg guild cant roll face and PvDoor anymore and its like "awww this campain sucks now, lets find a new one."

I would say the definition is a less subjective than what people would have you think. Anytime someone says stack on crown and move as a unit that's a zerg, especially if it's a full group of 24.

Zerg, IMO is more about the size of one group in relation to the other vs. two equal sized groups. Combined with a play style of mostly skill-spamming vs. deliberate AoE selection and timing that's coordinated at a larger scale to have an overall desired affect. Basically it's the disproportionate size of the group combined with mostly skill-spamming that gives dominance vs. skilled group play. (ie: impulse monkey spammers, long live @Columba)

It's very enjoyable to go group vs. group when deliberate skills and approaches are taking place, even if the group is larger. Always sucks to wipe, but to a better and skilled group, not near as bitter and disheartening as wiping to mindless spammers that just out number your group.

Kas

pppontus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

So your screenshots show you partaking in "zerg" battles. Are YOU just standing in the corner "inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server"? No? But those cheating, lagsploiting, and unsavory Reds are, right? OK.......

Actually, yes. LOL. I love this, you thought you were gonna nail me on something. I don't even have an AOE skill there, I would rather Alt+F4 than stand in one position, spam a skill and do jack *** for half an hour.

I also for scientific purposes walked alone right into the enemy train and just stood there, nothing even happened...

Kas wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

But I get it, zerging's great for people who can't do anything otherwise. Just another lagbattle:



6 or so DC defenders. You tell me how many meteorspamming attackers.





If you're wondering why people are calling the zerg "not fun", "no skill", "brainless" - that's your answer right there.

how did you take the screenshots if you weren't there?

Ehm? Was I not there now?

I went to defend a keep, turns out that was not possible because the lagspammingmeteorhealingspringsofdeathtrain was there. I took a few screenshots and logged off.

I already *** told everyone, all factions participate in this asshattery. I'd rather be able to actually play the game, so I don't.

Which on the other hand means a lot of Alt+F4 and not logging back in again as everyone playing the game seems to prefer to run in a lagspammingmeteorhealingspringsofdeathtrain and then come to the forums and complain about the lag that they themselves cause. But of course, they think that they don't cause the lag and that only their enemies cause lag, which is the biggest LOL. Priceless

what i'm saying is that this is how zergs happen. people go to defend the keep. they don't set out to zerg.
ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) a picture of a "zerg" taken at a flag, probably always conatins about 50% players in the same situation as you were when taking the screenshot

reften

Because throughout history...it's worked

Joy_Division

pppontus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

So your screenshots show you partaking in "zerg" battles. Are YOU just standing in the corner "inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server"? No? But those cheating, lagsploiting, and unsavory Reds are, right? OK.......

Actually, yes. LOL. I love this, you thought you were gonna nail me on something. I don't even have an AOE skill there, I would rather Alt+F4 than stand in one position, spam a skill and do jack *** for half an hour.

I also for scientific purposes walked alone right into the enemy train and just stood there, nothing even happened...

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is "nail" you. Great, you don't slot an AOE skill. You want a medal or something? When you are done with your condescending mockery of us peons and can get off your high horse why don't a look at the rest of us cretins and see we are just trying to play the game the same as you: YOU didn't want to be in a "Zerg" but, there you are, in a "zerg." You are just trying to make the best of a laggy situation and play the game. So are the rest of us.

Erock25

As a solo player in PVP I either surf the zerg or try to gank the reinforcement paths. Ganking reinforcement paths is more fun but it takes time to get in position, the reinforcement path can change pretty quick, and I am susceptible to an enemy zerg. Surfing the zerg is pretty fun because I usually lead the charge between keeps and then go to the outside or backlines during the siege to fight the brave souls who try to flank the zerg. I can see how a small group of coordinated people would be a lot of fun, but as long as I'm solo, being around the zerg is the best way to find action.

reften

Erock25 wrote: »

As a solo player in PVP I either surf the zerg or try to gank the reinforcement paths. Ganking reinforcement paths is more fun but it takes time to get in position, the reinforcement path can change pretty quick, and I am susceptible to an enemy zerg. Surfing the zerg is pretty fun because I usually lead the charge between keeps and then go to the outside or backlines during the siege to fight the brave souls who try to flank the zerg. I can see how a small group of coordinated people would be a lot of fun, but as long as I'm solo, being around the zerg is the best way to find action.

Just please stealth when the zerg stealths

The_Drexill

ZoS designed it this way. People that are drawn to an 8 man daoc style group are pushed away because of the lack of anti zerg counters like AOE CC and group speed. My old healers both hate eso, because their heals don't prioritize group members... when your clutch ward hits the random level 23 that added instead of your group members being trained... that's frustrating.

Valencer

It's AvA. People aren't just there to have "good" PvP, they're there to fight and (hopefully) win for their alliance.

So why wouldn't they go to a keep to defend it when it's under attack? Why wouldnt they want to help take an enemy home keep for the glory of their alliance? Should we start attempting to keep accurate administration of exactly how many EP/AD/DC are at each location, so we can try to equally divide manpower across all battle sites and make sure no alliance is ever outnumbered in a fight?

I don't think people intentionally end up fighting alongside 50 of their fellow alliance members. It's just something that happens naturally sometimes, with the chaotic nature of AvA.

Of course, the definition of zerg varies from person to person. I'd never call a 24-man group a zerg, unless they're mindlessly running around without proper leadership. When you add 2 of those groups together, however...