Can someone explain the appeal of the zerg

jelliedsoup

I don't get it.

There's no fun in it from my perspective.

Ezareth

On this we agree.

If I had to guess people zerg because they want to win as much as possible with as little risk as possible.

jelliedsoup

Ezareth wrote: »

On this we agree.

If I had to guess people zerg because they want to win as much as possible with as little risk as possible.

That's what I was thinking was the reason, personally i would rather lose and enjoy it. Howevrt if people get enjoyment from winning that would account for it.

AD was more successful when the zerg train existed. I recall the skeleton group hiding and blitzkrieiging. Never saw the appeal then and still don't.

Dont hate the player....i guess.

Jeremy

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I don't get it.

There's no fun in it from my perspective.

I've never understood why players enjoy this kind of PvP either. So you're not alone.

jelliedsoup

For once the zerg is absent, matbe they need a shared account.

In all seriousness i wouls like to know, the zerg player is the majority here.

cozmon3c_ESO

Ive never got the appeal, and its getting obnoxious pvping all i run into are zergs everywhere. its literally, no one, no one, zomg zerg run like a little *** because they will f'ing one shot pwn you.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Cognitive dissonance. No zerg calls themselves a zerg. No zerg thinks they are in a zerg. When a large group fights another large group with an equal or slightly greater number of players and loses, they say "awww we got zerged!"

The most hilarious part of this is the server migration we are currently seeing. Zergs don't like fighting zergs so they bring their whole zerg guild to a less populated campaign and exclaim how much better it is as they are wiping forces much smaller then them.

Those smaller enemy forces inevitably cry for help and bring enemy zerg guilds. Suddenly the lag goes up, the competition increases, said zerg guild cant roll face and PvDoor anymore and its like "awww this campain sucks now, lets find a new one."

tist

My favorite is when I find an enemy and think he is just roaming around by himself. Then the lag kicks in, and shortly after I am steamrolled by an army of red that would make Leonidas tremble.

cozmon3c_ESO

tist wrote: »

My favorite is when I find an enemy and think he is just roaming around by himself. Then the lag kicks in, and shortly after I am steamrolled by an army of red that would make Leonidas tremble.

majority of my deaths lately, freakin irritating.

Ley

I can see the appeal to large organized pvp groups, problem is, they often turn into a zergblob. I don't think it's always intentional (sometimes it most definitely is) but it's hard to stay organized, the bigger you get. Trying to tell slots 1-6 to siege , 7-12 to heal, 13-18 defend and 19-24 to scout for enemies is just going to turn into mass confusion, so instead they tell everyone to essentially do the same thing. Everyone on crown, everyone siege, stop chasing down random pugs and help us take the flag. Add another group of 24 to the picture, or 2 for that matter all working together and it just turns into 2-3 separate zergblobs or one massive one.

Without leadership and direction, a group of people running around doing whatever they feel like, are just free AP.

Now I've been with some groups and we'd run drills for different assault, defense situations and they worked really well, until you had a few people in the group who didn't drill with us and then zergblob was easier.

I usually have more fun with a small tight group, big spread out groups with no direction tend to aggravate me and I don't think I ever intentionally joined a zergblob, sometimes the groups I was in just happened to turn into one. When the ball gets rolling and you're in a gigantic fight, you don't always want to stop and go "wait this is tuning into a zerg war, I should stop" you just want to keep riding it.

Bouvin

Nuff said.

WraithAzraiel

Primitive defense mechanism. Safety in numbers.

Unless solitary in nature, all animals, including human feel more at ease in group settings. With the exception of mental disorders that include increases in anxiety when in said settings.


We're digital fish.

Rakshat

The sad part is that there are no other PVP options for those who dislike zerging. You either run in a zerg, run alone/in small group and die to a zerg or just ragequit...

Lava_Croft

Buy a game advertised for its massive scale PvP.

Create a thread about how you don't understand the appeal of big groups.

Make me wonder where it went wrong.

Vis

I always stay close to the zerg ... the other team's zerg.

pppontus

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance. No zerg calls themselves a zerg. No zerg thinks they are in a zerg. When a large group fights another large group with an equal or slightly greater number of players and loses, they say "awww we got zerged!"

So true! Everyone knows that most people join the Zerg because they suck, so no one wants to be a Zerg. So they then call themselves "40 man organized guild group" instead. The lol.

Then again this is the same people who destroy the entire servers with their behavior and then dare to complain about lag. I *** hate them. DC, AD or EP doesn't even matter, those players are completely ruining the game, and complaining about it while doing so.

You'd think people know not to stack 40 people in a tiny tiny corner of a keep and then spam 200 meteors right?

Siege was effective for a day or two, now the Zerg has simply learned that they must stack up and cause lag before facing the enemy so that the enemy can't put siege because of the lag. And then they are super funny and come on to the forums and say that their stacked 20+ groups don't cause lag!

Gotta love them confused kids

PeggymoeXD

People like zerging because they think it's 100% necessary to get things done. Of course, the bigger the group, the more overwhelming you are to whoever stands in your way. Duh. The more people you have rofl-stomping the resistance, the more you can get done quickly. Also, most "new to PvP" players quickly feel like they're beneficial to the campaign while running with the zerg. There's a sense of security you get while running with them especially if you're new. You don't really have to rely on your own skill to stay alive. Then of course, if the group leader picking up pugs from zone chat advertises his guild, those puggies will join it. And the process will continue.

I run a guild. It's very small, but very effective. I only recruit people who are loyal and willing to be taught. Skill can be developed down the road. When I receive hate tells wondering how I exploited mitigation because players are unaware my healers are healing me through the postern door, or a group of 15 is demolished by my group of 5 because we communicate and make certain players priority targets, it brings a big ole smile to my kitty whiskered face. Cyrodiil would be flipping fantastic if everyone understood that you don't need an enormous group to capture keeps. Of course if you're up against a group of 20 while assaulting a keep with 5 people, you will most likely not succeed. Which is why in some cases I do think at least one full raid running around is necessary. One full raid. Not 50 people blobbing from keep to keep. That does not define skill. Any guild that self proclaims themselves as good because they can set up 20/20 siege within seconds and swarm the 12 people attempting to defend is nothing but obnoxious. Yes, that involves a certain amount of discipline and leadership, which I can appreciate. But there is a difference between a whipped guild, and a skilled guild. Skill is based on your ability to survive on your own, and when in unfair situations. I am by no means an amazing player. But I have definitely had my fair share of moments I've lived through to tell the story. And if zerglings would experience those moments for themselves, they will understand why the zerg isn't by any means mandatory.

RinaldoGandolphi

It used to be zergs were only around keep battles and such, that is until they removed forward camps.

I used to be able to find all kinds of small scale skirmishes and fights because with forward camps folks were not afraid to travel alone or in very small pockets of people. The removal of forward camps brought horse simulator, folks got sick and tired of traveling 3\4 of the map only to get killed and have to do it all over again.

So now zergs make up the majority of open field travel now. Bring back FC and their will be more small fight opportunities because folks wont be stuck playing horse simulator.

It is what it is, there are pros and cons to FC removal and one of the cons is horse simulator and traveling in large zerg groups to avoid it.

PeggymoeXD

woodsro wrote: »

It used to be zergs were only around keep battles and such, that is until they removed forward camps.

I used to be able to find all kinds of small scale skirmishes and fights because with forward camps folks were not afraid to travel alone or in very small pockets of people. The removal of forward camps brought horse simulator, folks got sick and tired of traveling 3\4 of the map only to get killed and have to do it all over again.

So now zergs make up the majority of open field travel now. Bring back FC and their will be more small fight opportunities because folks wont be stuck playing horse simulator.

It is what it is, there are pros and cons to FC removal and one of the cons is horse simulator and traveling in large zerg groups to avoid it.

I ain't afraid of no ganker. Just ask Hellcane.

Rune_Relic

With permanent stun and a TTK of less than 1 second, you don't understand the concept of safety in numbers ?

You want to cure this....get rid of all the OP players/builds in PVP.
Battle level everyone properly

When the new players can actually last more than 1 second before horse riding fro another 10 mins...perhaps they will feel powerful enough to survive on their own


Never gonna happen with the best players wearing top content uber IWIN gear and 200 CP+ & gated high power PVP pasives

Oughash

First,the term zerg is used way too much here. It implies that victory was achieved solely on numbers alone. There is a huge difference between a zerg and tightly executed group play. A good group is vastly more powerful that the sum of its players. Just ask Havoc, Alacrity, MBF, etc.

Second. It is incredibly difficult to achieve tight execution with 20+ players. The game lags, people get stuck, some don't listen, others have the wrong skills, whatever. Leadership, and the willingness to listen to leadership, it really important.

Third. An unorganized group is often more vulnerable than single players or small groups. Group member mistakes can get the entire raid wipped in seconds by popping out of stealth at the wrong times, aggroing guards, etc.

Finally. Don't mistake your preference for play with the only viable or correct means of play.

eliisra

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance. No zerg calls themselves a zerg. No zerg thinks they are in a zerg. When a large group fights another large group with an equal or slightly greater number of players and loses, they say "awww we got zerged!"

This is so funny and true. All you get is simple denial from zergs. Noway they're zerging, rather the opposite, they're a well organised:
zergbuster
bomb group
guild group

Also mathematics, no one knows how to count in Cyrodiil. Not even the nicest and most admirable person in your own faction is able to do it. Everyone suffers from delusional disorder, always heavily outnumbered when asked. Still won cuz skills ofc, even the 80 man zerg that crashed the server was outnumbered, skilled and "u blind, only 10 of us here, get rekt lol".

Zergs also use projection, like blaming "randoms" when they storm a keep with the entire server population. But they clearly had no choice, because Grand Warlord Zimmeron forced them to go to a keep that already had 50 allies beating on it.

For some winning is more fun than PvP'ing. That's why zerg. Other reason would be lazy or helpless, many follow the biggest group around.

RinaldoGandolphi

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

It used to be zergs were only around keep battles and such, that is until they removed forward camps.

I used to be able to find all kinds of small scale skirmishes and fights because with forward camps folks were not afraid to travel alone or in very small pockets of people. The removal of forward camps brought horse simulator, folks got sick and tired of traveling 3\4 of the map only to get killed and have to do it all over again.

So now zergs make up the majority of open field travel now. Bring back FC and their will be more small fight opportunities because folks wont be stuck playing horse simulator.

It is what it is, there are pros and cons to FC removal and one of the cons is horse simulator and traveling in large zerg groups to avoid it.

I ain't afraid of no ganker. Just ask Hellcane.

haha i know! same here.Its even this way on Blackwater Blade now though. Last night i popped in, killed a guy on the path between Glade and Ash, it wasn't 10 secs later 20+ come run me over...i guess 20v1 is the new pvp. I promptly logged.

I have killed a lot of good players in this game at one time or another, This doesn't even really matter to me though. im the first person to whisper Good fight to the guy who gets me, its all about class with me. im just here to have fun. However a zerg vs 1-2 people isn't fun. no matter how you shake it.

Joy_Division

OK, I'll give this a shot.

There are some posters on this forum and players in the game who shall go nameless who believe that any group larger than 4, regardless of its composition and organization, is a "zerg." Do we really need an explanation of the benefits, camaraderie, strategic / tactical possibilities, and enjoyment that can come from operating in a group setting?

More to the point:

• I play as a healer / support character. Utterly unsuitable for solo roaming / ganking / 1 vs 1 gameplay. Without a "zerg" I am just free AP for the enemy.
• I think capturing castles every now and then is fun. One time I was alone and set up a stone trebuchet and fired at the walls to begin the process of sieging. After my resultant quick death from the 5-6 defenders who jumped off the walls, I made the realization that only with a "zerg" could I ever complete this sort of mission successfully.
• Last night during a siege at ASH, I saw this would-be sneaky yellow sorcerer trying to set up a fire ballista at a friendly resource. So I put on my "dueling" gear and decide to take on the sorc despite her general OPness. After about 30 seconds of what would have been an entertaining 1 v 1 fight the sort of anti-zergers enjoy, which I was very much winning, Arcane Requiem and his crew of 4 buddies show up an wipe us both out in like 5 seconds. Pick your adjective: frustrated, annoyed, deprived, whatever. Point is no matter how skillfully I played, because I left the "zerg" I could not participate in the battle at Ash and had to play horse-riding simulator.
• I am in a fairly large guild that PvPs about 5 nights a week. I consider some of them friends and enjoy the company of just about all of them. I suppose I could still talk to them while I take my VR 14 character to Bruma and gank level 30s trying to do PvE quests, but as much of their conversation is directly relevant to their group play and battles, it is rather awkward. Not to mention actually playing the game with these people makes for a far more enjoyable social experience.
• One time I was alone and on my horse heading toward the Alessia bridge. Coming over the crest of the hill, I saw a large intense battle involving all three factions. I was faced with one of three choices: 1) I could simply observe the battle from a distance and marvel at the aesthetic beauty of the game, 2) I could continue my solo roaming ways, enter in stealth, wait for the yellows to win and then try to gank stragglers, or 3) I could actually play the game and enter in the battle! I choose option number three. The next day, yellow and blue players accused me of "zerging" and "lapsploiting" the bridge battle. Anyway, moving on...
• Call me silly *choruses of "You're silly" come from the peanut gallery* but I dislike dying. I mean, I really hate it. I know there is no tangible penalty. I know it's even sometime advantageous to die. I still have some sort of physiological aversion to seeing the death screen. Even when my entire groups "suicides," I won't do it. I'll hop on my horse and take the extra few minutes to go wherever is the intended destination. Sociologists and biologists would probably theorize that I am the sort of player that would gravitate toward "zergs" much in the way animals gather into herds. I don't think we need to get all academic or it's a very big mystery. If Arcane Requiem didn't hang around with his 4 buddies I would be much less adverse to traveling solo.
• One time the Gate of Mnem opened and I wanted to take that scroll. I was in a group with 2 friendly acquaintances Glory for the Pact! Glory for me! When we got to said gate we were insta-killed by about 6 siege weapons, the NPC guards, and the 20+ yellows (who obviously weren't a "zerg," but instead a cohesive raid who willingly eschewed certain abilities for the good of the game because that faction is the honorable sort that does that sort of thing). The operation went much better when we waited for the "zerg."
• When I played the Beta, what convinced me to buy this game was an epic hour+ long siege defense at Castle Roebeck. It's been over a year, but I still remember it. Why it is so obvious that we can appreciate the sort of 1 vs 1 fight I had against the sneaky yellow sorcerer, yet the sort of epic battles involving large numbers of combatants need explanation? Seriously, how is this a mystery that you "can't get"? Before you tell me because it lags out the server, read the palpable dismissive language people who dislike "zergs" used to describe them: "no fun, "no skill," "brainless," etc., that have nothing to due with lag.
• Call me silly again, I like winning. I won't go as far to say that what is best in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women, but it's hella fun seeing "killed X with a killing blow" in my chat log. Winning is best achieved operating in concert with other players.

Cinbri

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The most hilarious part of this is the server migration we are currently seeing. Zergs don't like fighting zergs so they bring their whole zerg guild to a less populated campaign and exclaim how much better it is as they are wiping forces much smaller then them.

Totally true.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Yeah. It's not like battles of old were fought with thousands of people in a mist of blood and sweat. I think ZoS should give us gun instead and we can play ESO like call of duty.

sarcasm aside, I would like to see stuff like dueling and structured PvP ranked and unranked matches.

I do however not have an issue with zergs. That is how sword and shield combat was back in the good ol' days. At least now with the siege weapons being way more useful there are more tactics involved. My guild has taken out groups larger than us and taken keeps with more defenders than we have attackers. Zergs will always have an obvious advantage but a well trained group is better and by my definition isn't a mere "zerg".

pppontus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why it is so obvious that we can appreciate the sort of 1 vs 1 fight I had against the sneaky yellow sorcerer, yet the sort of epic battles involving large numbers of combatants need explanation? Seriously, how is this a mystery that you "can't get"? Before you tell me because it lags out the server, read the palpable dismissive language people who dislike "zergs" used to describe them: "no fun, "no skill," "brainless," etc., that have nothing to due with lag.

Basically, because zergs are the ones who all stand inside each other in a corner spamming AOE with 0 people in their radius lagging out the entire server.

I appreciate fights with large numbers, even more so when (actually) outnumbered. But I do not think that there's any skill involved in the groups who just continually spam one and the same AOE (steel tornado, healing springs, impulse - take your pick) and occasionally purge/rapid.

Yeah.. wow you can run together and use 24 players to steamroll 3, congrats. It's just annoying, I greatly prefer getting ganked actually. Because at least then you can do something, you can't when you get crit charged by 36 people simultaneously.

Edit: forgot to even mention the lovely people who use the lag invulnerability to flip flags without killing anyone. Just stand there and have large numbers. GJ, u win.

pppontus

But I get it, zerging's great for people who can't do anything otherwise. Just another lagbattle:



6 or so DC defenders. You tell me how many meteorspamming attackers.





If you're wondering why people are calling the zerg "not fun", "no skill", "brainless" - that's your answer right there.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Fun is subjective. For some people success is fun and zergs are certainly successful. Sadly the increased siege damage did help with that to an extent but it was nerfed fixed and the zergs are back just like before. Personally I would love to see them done away with, but every time there is a solution people whine about it till it's changed back.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance. No zerg calls themselves a zerg. No zerg thinks they are in a zerg. When a large group fights another large group with an equal or slightly greater number of players and loses, they say "awww we got zerged!"

The most hilarious part of this is the server migration we are currently seeing. Zergs don't like fighting zergs so they bring their whole zerg guild to a less populated campaign and exclaim how much better it is as they are wiping forces much smaller then them.

Those smaller enemy forces inevitably cry for help and bring enemy zerg guilds. Suddenly the lag goes up, the competition increases, said zerg guild cant roll face and PvDoor anymore and its like "awww this campain sucks now, lets find a new one."

I would say the definition is a less subjective than what people would have you think. Anytime someone says stack on crown and move as a unit that's a zerg, especially if it's a full group of 24.

PeggymoeXD

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The most hilarious part of this is the server migration we are currently seeing. Zergs don't like fighting zergs so they bring their whole zerg guild to a less populated campaign and exclaim how much better it is as they are wiping forces much smaller then them.

Holy crap, you're totally right.