Are you ever gonna bother balancing races?

Crescent

Giving 12% mainstat+ 5%stamina/health regen proc to some races is such a vast gap with what others get. Same goes for casters. What's the point in rolling anything besides Imperial/Redguard/Altmer/Breton/Dunmer, the other races are gimped to hell even more now that you removed hardcaps.

It's virtually the equivalent of getting 3-4 extra pieces of armor's worth of stats.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Nords would be decent if they replaced Resist Frost with Brawny. Seriously no one uses frost damage, and very few NPC's aside from ghosts use it either. Most useless passive ever.

Wicked_Wolf

Yeah racial bonuses seem very off in this game. Some say it doesn't matter but I disagree. Even if you're not a min/maxer, you're still at a disadvantage if you don't play the usual races with the clearly superior bonuses.

Personally, I think all racial bonuses should just be various slight boosts; nothing too crazy. I'm pretty sure that's how it's always been in TES games right? Now I have to go and check every single games' bonuses lol just to see.

Kypho

balance races? you know what you asking for? They failed to balance classes, what you think will happen if they touch races?

RainfeatherUK

They should be meaningful and match with equivalent weight. whilst trying to do service to the lore.

Not everyone is a minmaxer and some of the racial differences are a bit exaggerated tbh. Is it the end of the world im not an Imperial on some of my classes, not really. I still win 2/3 fights.

Ultimately the new system has thrown things up in the air because of cap removal. If I had to guess they will retune it, at least give them time to take some data and finish with B2P/Console delivery.

Yes these things could have been looked over before. But things will be broken a whole lot more if they rush it out to appease the post 1.6 voices. I'd rather them do a decent job and keep racials, than dumb the game down and bin them all, just because people couldnt wait.

Aeternus

Agreed. I believe all of the % stat increase racials should be done away with. It goes against The Elder Scrolls theme of being able to play your character however you want. All it effectively does is penalize creativity in creating characters and promotes min/maxing. If I wanted to play an Argonian sorcerer, how is it fair that a Breton or Altmer will always be doing at least 5% more dps than me even with equal amount of Champion Points? Racials should not have this large of an impact on playstyle.

Zsymon

Lorewise each race has its strengths and weaknesses, if you take those away and reduce races to nothing but skins, you break lore badly. For example for Bretons and Altmer to be better spellcasters, they need more magicka, for Redguards to be better warriors, they need more stamina. If you take away those bonuses then races become nothing but skins, you take away game depth and you break lore. You can be a Khajiit mage or healer, just at a tiny disadvantage, nothing some practice won't help you even out.

During quests the Bosmer will often say: "Our spellcasters can't compete with those high elves." Such statements would make no sense if all races were equal spellcasters.

In pve it really doesn't matter, the boss is gonna die whether or not you have 10% extra magicka, and in pvp player skill trumps those 10% magicka by far, so it doesn't matter there either.

Racials would only matter if there was a pvp arena, so if that is implemented someday, they'll probably change racial bonuses to be bland and meaningless, or just disable them inside the arena.

pepperybrine

What I think is: How do you want to play? Have fun and play with the race you like orbe the best in the game and want the best passives in the game, that nords have frost resistance thats not so difficult to understand, but indeed, nobody uses frost spells/enchantments, I have a Nord and an Argonian and they are awesome!

Atreyu

I have a VR14 DK dunmer I use with magicka builds.

and now rerolling an imperial DK for stamina builds. Currently lvl 45.


enough said about race balance.

Varicite

pepperybrine wrote: »

I have a Nord and an Argonian and they are awesome!

And mathematically inferior to the other races.

See, people wanting the races balanced are trying to help you be able to pick whatever race you enjoy and not have 20% less stats than the next guy.

Xsorus

I'm waiting for the race respec that will eventually happen

Fizzlewizzle

I could really use some balance.
- An Argonian.

Amoren

Hmm, at a glance I think that racial bonuses should probably cap out at something like 5% over another (to lend some strength from the lore perspective, without being totally imbalanced), but then I remember that it takes skill points to spec into your racial bonuses. If they reduce them too far, they may lose appeal compared to other passives that could have the same or similar effects.

Although I'm not too sure exactly how many spare skill points one might have at end game, so I can't really comment too personally on that aspect of balance, although I think it should be kept in mind. Then again, I'm the kind that doesn't really care, and at least khajiit make decent stamina assassins with the weapon crit and stealth bonuses, so that makes me happy enough.

Lava_Croft

They tried to balance the races by nerfing the clearly overpowered Argonians for 1.6.

AssaultLemming

I think they should do away with racial bonuses entirely and replace them with back story choices you make during character creation. Racial bonuses is an outdated concept and doesn't sit well with the whole play your way theme. I would see back story choices look something like this:

Wizards apprentice: magicka bonus

Mercenary: weapon damage

Treasure Hunter: more gold drops

Merchant family: reduced npc prices

Burn victim: reduced fire damage

Etc etc. Make a huge range and choose any 3.

Khivas_Carrick

AssaultLemming wrote: »

I think they should do away with racial bonuses entirely and replace them with back story choices you make during character creation. Racial bonuses is an outdated concept and doesn't sit well with the whole play your way theme. I would see back story choices look something like this:

Wizards apprentice: magicka bonus

Mercenary: weapon damage

Treasure Hunter: more gold drops

Merchant family: reduced npc prices

Burn victim: reduced fire damage

Etc etc. Make a huge range and choose any 3.

I could get behind this

Gilvoth

give us nightblades a self heal skill like the green dragon blood for the dragonights. it is only fair and makes us balanced as far as survival.
i can damage deal them till they have just a small spec of hp left and instantly they heal themselves to full as they run away from me. i chase after them atacking and doing all i can but they just keep healing themselves, same thing with the templar, the sorcerer just keeps bolt escaping untill he is full health also.
so basicly, a great start, would be to give us nightblades a self heal.
please do this.

Gilvoth

oh and btw, please dont try to say that the alliance high ranking skill called "vigor" is a self heal beacause thats a heal over time skill and its way to slow.
the dragonight skill called "dragonblood" is instantanious.
please give us instant heal like dragon blood.

Dekkameron

I really couldnt care less. I mean i have an Altmer stamina nightblade, two Orimser characters, and a stamina Altmer.

I play the races for kinda RP reasons and appearance.

cwp303b14_ESO

Argonians went from niche at best to laughably terrible. All I want to know is how soon and how much race changes will be in the crown store.

I kinda feel like they took the first idea they had with the argonian racials and ran with it because of the change to buffs, and never put a lot of thought into the actual numbers.

They gave them a super low regen tied to a consumable item that they can only use every 45 seconds baseline. It was nerfed and then further nerfed with the increase in cooldown for potions.

It makes me sad because my argonian has my ring of mara =(

Septimus_Magna

Now you can play the race you like and balance the racial passives with the CS, play the way you like

Xsorus

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

oh and btw, please dont try to say that the alliance high ranking skill called "vigor" is a self heal beacause thats a heal over time skill and its way to slow.
the dragonight skill called "dragonblood" is instantanious.
please give us instant heal like dragon blood.

Ignoring that your post has nothing to do with this thread, you really have no idea how much better vigor is over gdb, like it's bloody amazing and heals for a stupid amount more then gdb.

Varicite

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Now you can play the race you like and balance the racial passives with the CS, play the way you like

Point me to the part of the Champ System that will give my Argonian 22% more base stats and put her on par w/ an Imperial.

Or even just a Dunmer.

Kragorn

Varicite wrote: »

pepperybrine wrote: »

I have a Nord and an Argonian and they are awesome!

And mathematically inferior to the other races.

See, people wanting the races balanced are trying to help you be able to pick whatever race you enjoy and not have 20% less stats than the next guy.

It's called homogenisation, it's like society today, God Forbid anyone can do something better than someone else!

Leave them as they are, there are damned sight more important problems in this game than whether a 10% stat bonus matters much: and if you think it does then min/max away with whatever race gives you that 'advantage'.

Kragorn

Atreyu wrote: »

I have a VR14 DK dunmer I use with magicka builds.

and now rerolling an imperial DK for stamina builds. Currently lvl 45.


enough said about race balance min/maxing.

FTFY.

Varicite

Kragorn wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

pepperybrine wrote: »

I have a Nord and an Argonian and they are awesome!

And mathematically inferior to the other races.

See, people wanting the races balanced are trying to help you be able to pick whatever race you enjoy and not have 20% less stats than the next guy.

It's called homogenisation, it's like society today, God Forbid anyone can do something better than someone else!

Leave them as they are, there are damned sight more important problems in this game than whether a 10% stat bonus matters much: and if you think it does then min/max away with whatever race gives you that 'advantage'.

Already on it. It's fine if you don't mind other races being mathematically superior to you in every way.

But I do.

rosarose

I find the game a bit harder when I try to figure out what character I should use, based on min/max stats in the end. I started with a nord templar, when the game was released. Then I moved to my favorite character and I still have her, she is a wood elf nighblade, and I love the playstyle! I have made a dunmer dk, and she is patiently waiting for me to have some time to play with her I do want to try out pvp soon, so I figured out that min/max stats might be wise to think about if I want to not get killed to easy

Septimus_Magna

Varicite wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Now you can play the race you like and balance the racial passives with the CS, play the way you like

Point me to the part of the Champ System that will give my Argonian 22% more base stats and put her on par w/ an Imperial.

Or even just a Dunmer.

Investing a point into the warrior, thief and mage will increase your health, stamina and magicka. And there are passives for increased regen, damage and resistance. My comment was somewhat sarcastic though, the play the way you want ideology is clearly an illusion. If you want to push the limits of whats possible within the games boundaries (min-maxing), you need to make choices based on what works instead of your personal preference.

byrom101b16_ESO

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

AssaultLemming wrote: »

I think they should do away with racial bonuses entirely and replace them with back story choices you make during character creation. Racial bonuses is an outdated concept and doesn't sit well with the whole play your way theme. I would see back story choices look something like this:

Wizards apprentice: magicka bonus

Mercenary: weapon damage

Treasure Hunter: more gold drops

Merchant family: reduced npc prices

Burn victim: reduced fire damage

Etc etc. Make a huge range and choose any 3.

I could get behind this

Actually, put this on top of racial passives, with the caveat that bonuses already gained in racial can only be further gained in low amounts. Also, have them as quest rewards so they can be incorporated in game with some flavour. Do it on a 10:2 ratio.

So for instance, my Breton Sorcerer could do a special 'Walking the Void' questline and come out of it with +2% magicka because he's already got +10%. The reward for a Khagiit however would eventually be +10% from the same multi-stage questline.

On the flipside, my Breton could do a 'Running with the Pack' questline and ultimately get +30% health recovery, but the Khagiit player could only get +6% from the same questline as they already have access to the racial in this regard.

Have these quests in the right locations and/or racially controlled areas and it would make for great content, and close the gap between races with stat bonuses and those without by 80%.

Lore is preserved and game balance better served.

Win/Win!

eNumbra

Wicked_Wolf wrote: »

Personally, I think all racial bonuses should just be various slight boosts; nothing too crazy. I'm pretty sure that's how it's always been in TES games right?

No. Racials were not even remotely balanced in the Single-Player games.

Feidam

I like the current racial system with one caveat. Each race should have one main stat racial and one regen racial. The racial differences are a breath of fresh air from everything has to be perfectly equal. A not optimal race still has the ability to complete all content in this game.

The problem comes from those that think min maxing is the only way a person should play and then they exclude someone because they only did 100 dps above the minimum req compared the high elf that did 115 dps more than the required minimum. Granted even this is only a problem if you have to run in the top progression groups.

I like that the racials give choices between min maxing and flavor. Choices that matter based on your mindset.