Dodge roll vs Crystal frag (and other sorc abilities)

cozmon3c_ESO

So ive noticed that when i dodge roll i have to time it for some abilities like wrecking blow or lethal arrow if i want them to miss me now, yet this is not the case for Crystal frag, they can dodge roll right when the frag leaves my hands and stand up before it reachs them and the frag still misses. is this intended, because it seems like there was a change to dodge roll and many other abilities you can just dodge roll from far away and expect it not to hit you when you stand up.

ps, why cant i seem to block incoming shield charges anymore, i always take the hit and get knocked down when i block when they are on the way to me.

IcyDeadPeople

If you see someone dodge your crystal frag while they are not in the dodge roll animation, it might be simply due to their dodge chance.

Ezareth

Dodge roll is absurdly powerful against projectile based ubilities.

I've never used a stam based damage ability to test but I've had people dodge 3 of my power overloads in a row with a single dodge. It happens all the time.

When I dodge roll while fleeing from the point of a 2hander Zerg Train however I'm always hit in the middle of my dodge roll as they all fight desperately to ensure they aren't the one who get stuck with "sloppy seconds".

Joy_Division

Crystal fragments can absolutely be dodged by a roll.

Vizier

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

cozmon3c_ESO

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

not complaining just bringing it to attention. why are some ranged abilities able to hit a dodge roller after a dodge roll and others are not. crystal frag is so easily avoidable and counterable with reflects it should have to be timed with a dodge roll, not just when ever you feel like it before it even leaves the casters hands.

Ezareth

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

The cost of dodge roll can be decreased to less than half it's original cost to about 1000 stamina a dodge which can be repeated ad infinitum.

Yes it is absurdly powerful and no I'm not complaining about it but I know there are many players who are already taking advantage of these mechanics who have to be killed exclusively by abilities that can't be dodge (of which there are few).

cozmon3c_ESO

dodge roll is the new bolt escape and you just have to spec stamina.

Snit

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

dodge roll is the new bolt escape and you just have to spec stamina.

Wait until they unlock "Tactician," which "sets opponents off-balance when you dodge their attacks." That will be fun.

Lava_Croft

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

dodge roll is the new bolt escape and you just have to spec stamina.

Except it's much cheaper and available to any scrub that invests in Stamina. You don't even need to try that hard to dodgeroll to infinity.

TheBucket

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

Actually.. Its .3 seconds. Not a full 3 seconds... But!!!!! It is a great armor against Uppercut at the moment. I swotch between that and another set.

Atreyu

Ezareth wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

The cost of dodge roll can be decreased to less than half it's original cost to about 1000 stamina a dodge which can be repeated ad infinitum.

Yes it is absurdly powerful and no I'm not complaining about it but I know there are many players who are already taking advantage of these mechanics who have to be killed exclusively by abilities that can't be dodge (of which there are few).

1000 a dodge?

how?

I have 7 medium, 3 reduce cost rings, Tumbling and stama reduce cost from champion system and god only know what else...and it cost around 2000/2400, cant remember exactly.

WhiskeyJac

so wreaking blow cant be dodged?

Ezareth

Atreyu wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

The cost of dodge roll can be decreased to less than half it's original cost to about 1000 stamina a dodge which can be repeated ad infinitum.

Yes it is absurdly powerful and no I'm not complaining about it but I know there are many players who are already taking advantage of these mechanics who have to be killed exclusively by abilities that can't be dodge (of which there are few).

1000 a dodge?

how?

I have 7 medium, 3 reduce cost rings, Tumbling and stama reduce cost from champion system and god only know what else...and it cost around 2000/2400, cant remember exactly.

I was getting that with my Templar char on PTS. This was with max Tumbling (18%), 3 cost reduction enchants, and medium armor

Looking back at my notes:

Dodge roll base cost is 3591.
With Maximum Dodge roll reduction of Medium Armor (24% - 12.3% Cost redux penalty)
3 Stamina Cost enchants = -637 Cost
Maximum Tumbler = -18% Cost

The final cost of Dodge roll ended up as 1742 which is less than half the original cost.

Atreyu

Oh well with that many champion points is a whole new story.

I don't think anybody has much more than 10% into tumbling atm. And that set in pvp isn't really a thing as far as I know.
if WARLORD from CP was maxed too...that's probably even more cost reduction (but im actually not sure if that works on dodge actually).


Yeah, realistically atm people will have around 2000/2500 cost dodges

RinaldoGandolphi

I'll say this those sets that have dodge chance are OP for one single reason:

They give 100% damage avoidance for zero resource cost.

They also have very high percentages, magic users get a pathetic 8% chance with Magnus, the dodge chance sets are much higher, this combined with how cheap dodge roll is and will continue to get cheaper single target projectile spells and arrows will be useless in a few months.

Ezareth

Atreyu wrote: »

Oh well with that many champion points is a whole new story.

I don't think anybody has much more than 10% into tumbling atm. And that set in pvp isn't really a thing as far as I know.
if WARLORD from CP was maxed too...that's probably even more cost reduction (but im actually not sure if that works on dodge actually).


Yeah, realistically atm people will have around 2000/2500 cost dodges

After checking the set doesn't reduce dodge roll anyways. With 10% Tumbling, 3 Cost reduction rings and full Medium armor your dodge rolls will cost 1957, easy enough to regen and stay immune for a very long time.

Skafsgaard

My vr4 NB who is in no way optimal geared or specced can do 8-9 dodge rolls - this will be insane once i put him in 7/7 medium along with proper build and setup. I can only imagine what will happen when those rolls sets enemies off balance.

edit:
this double dip in stamina is is now a force rather than vulnerbility this much is clear - actually I'd prefer if my magicka builds could dodge roll with magicka and break free with magicka, reserving stamina for pure support/utility like defensive stance and immovable/bone shield type spells. This would make my magicka user harder to deal with 100%.

Tankqull

woodsro wrote: »

I'll say this those sets that have dodge chance are OP for one single reason:

They give 100% damage avoidance for zero resource cost.

They also have very high percentages, magic users get a pathetic 8% chance with Magnus, the dodge chance sets are much higher, this combined with how cheap dodge roll is and will continue to get cheaper single target projectile spells and arrows will be useless in a few months.

actually wich magica range attack is not handled as a projectile?
all sorc spells, magica detonation, nbs strife, cripple, temps piercing javeline, sun fire and solar flare, Dks stone fist and fiery grip, all singeltarget bow and destrostaffs attacks aswell as hidden daggers are all computed as projectiles in regards of defense eficiency (as all are effected by deflect bolts).

Skafsgaard

My new jesus beam is not projectile and i believe the sorc daedric curse is not a projectile. I know there are some magicka NB abilities that's not handled as projectiles as well. Although I guess most magicka ranged attacks are some sort of projectiles.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

actually wich magica range attack is not handled as a projectile?

Radiant destruction, curse, mages wrath, impale, magicka detonation, spear shards, all aoe skills

Tankqull

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

actually wich magica range attack is not handled as a projectile?

Radiant destruction, curse, mages wrath, impale, magicka detonation, spear shards, all aoe skills

mage wrath is - the dmg a roller recieves from it is delivered by the lingereng explosion part wich can last for 4sec you are not going to hit a roller with it otherwise.

cozmon3c_ESO

so whats more annoying, bolt escape or excessive rolling lol.

Vizier

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

"dodge-roll is absurdly powerful?" LOL-

Dodge roll isn't the only way to avoid an attack you know. There are some skill/spells that increase dodge chance AND the 5 piece Crusader set allows a player to continue to dodge 3 seconds after a dodgeroll.

Wow- Sorcs complaining about dodgeroll. I've seen it all now.

not complaining just bringing it to attention. why are some ranged abilities able to hit a dodge roller after a dodge roll and others are not. crystal frag is so easily avoidable and counterable with reflects it should have to be timed with a dodge roll, not just when ever you feel like it before it even leaves the casters hands.

totally agree with you btw. And (kicks dirt) sorry for my tone.

Vizier

woodsro wrote: »

I'll say this those sets that have dodge chance are OP for one single reason:

They give 100% damage avoidance for zero resource cost.

They also have very high percentages, magic users get a pathetic 8% chance with Magnus, the dodge chance sets are much higher, this combined with how cheap dodge roll is and will continue to get cheaper single target projectile spells and arrows will be useless in a few months.

How is a dodgeroll a zero resource cost? I've invested heavily into stamina atm with 27K plus stam with tri-food and while I can get alot of utility out of my dodgeroll it's not a get out of jail free card and still costs a ton of stamina. Also Stamina regeneration is NOT what it was pre-1.6. Even though I've invested in reduction and regeneration I am constantly out of stamina which = no dodgeroll. Just saying. This is not even close to being an issue. Much rather we focus on BE but that's another discussion.

Ezareth

If you're a Werewolf Woodelf Nightblade with full Medium Armor with Vet 10 blue drink and stam regen champion points you can get some pretty ridiculous Stamina regen, up to something over 3000.

Xsorus

I did a post about it, With no Stamina Recovery Set Bonuses and just Stamina Recovery Jewelry Enchants (which suck) you can hit just short of 3k Stamina Regen. This is with Werewolf/Bosmer/Nightblade with champion points and full medium drink ect ect.

You can hit 5k if you run a proper stamina recovery set bonus build. To be able to Perma Dodge roll though you need I believe atleast 4k Stamina Recovery..Only the Bosmer nightblade can achieve that.

Mainly because the Regen is every 2 seconds and I think you can do a dodge roll every 1 second....or 1.5 Either way you'll want 4k regen.

*edit*

Oh yea, just clear it up..Dodging is not the new Bolt Escape...There is a stupid amount of abilities that go through dodging that will hit. Just having Templars near you will kill ya as that Radiant ability will go right through it and you'll die.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I did a post about it, With no Stamina Recovery Set Bonuses and just Stamina Recovery Jewelry Enchants (which suck) you can hit just short of 3k Stamina Regen. This is with Werewolf/Bosmer/Nightblade with champion points and full medium drink ect ect.

You can hit 5k if you run a proper stamina recovery set bonus build. To be able to Perma Dodge roll though you need I believe atleast 4k Stamina Recovery..Only the Bosmer nightblade can achieve that.

Mainly because the Regen is every 2 seconds and I think you can do a dodge roll every 1 second....or 1.5 Either way you'll want 4k regen.

*edit*

Oh yea, just clear it up..Dodging is not the new Bolt Escape...There is a stupid amount of abilities that go through dodging that will hit. Just having Templars near you will kill ya as that Radiant ability will go right through it and you'll die.

Don't forget that you can supplement your regen with tri-stat pots which not only make perma-dodge rolling easier but also increase your stam regen by another 20 for 45 seconds...or rather since that is the cooldown of tri-stats perpetually.

You are also far better going with Stamina cost reduction enchants instead of stamina regen if you want to perma-roll.

I think Dodge *is* the new bolt escape. Radiant hits me through bolt escape as well, along with damn near everything else.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I did a post about it, With no Stamina Recovery Set Bonuses and just Stamina Recovery Jewelry Enchants (which suck) you can hit just short of 3k Stamina Regen. This is with Werewolf/Bosmer/Nightblade with champion points and full medium drink ect ect.

You can hit 5k if you run a proper stamina recovery set bonus build. To be able to Perma Dodge roll though you need I believe atleast 4k Stamina Recovery..Only the Bosmer nightblade can achieve that.

Mainly because the Regen is every 2 seconds and I think you can do a dodge roll every 1 second....or 1.5 Either way you'll want 4k regen.

*edit*

Oh yea, just clear it up..Dodging is not the new Bolt Escape...There is a stupid amount of abilities that go through dodging that will hit. Just having Templars near you will kill ya as that Radiant ability will go right through it and you'll die.

Don't forget that you can supplement your regen with tri-stat pots which not only make perma-dodge rolling easier but also increase your stam regen by another 20 for 45 seconds...or rather since that is the cooldown of tri-stats perpetually.

You are also far better going with Stamina cost reduction enchants instead of stamina regen if you want to perma-roll.

I think Dodge *is* the new bolt escape. Radiant hits me through bolt escape as well, along with damn near everything else.

You have to run the Tri Drink if you want that stamina regen...you can't run the tri-stat pot and you would run stamina cost reduction on jewelry..I did the stamina enchants to get an idea what my stamina recovery would be (I didn't have access to any stamina recovery sets because they didn't copy my character over)

The difference between Dodge and Bolt Escape is this...you cover more range with Bolt Escape..and you have Shields to absorb any Radiant Damage.

Dodge will cover less range and will be hit for full damage.

Things like Fear and Fossilize are also more likely to get ya as well as they're able to keep up Range easier then Bolt Escape.

There is nothing in this game that is going to compete with Bolt Escape in terms of being able to escape.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I did a post about it, With no Stamina Recovery Set Bonuses and just Stamina Recovery Jewelry Enchants (which suck) you can hit just short of 3k Stamina Regen. This is with Werewolf/Bosmer/Nightblade with champion points and full medium drink ect ect.

You can hit 5k if you run a proper stamina recovery set bonus build. To be able to Perma Dodge roll though you need I believe atleast 4k Stamina Recovery..Only the Bosmer nightblade can achieve that.

Mainly because the Regen is every 2 seconds and I think you can do a dodge roll every 1 second....or 1.5 Either way you'll want 4k regen.

*edit*

Oh yea, just clear it up..Dodging is not the new Bolt Escape...There is a stupid amount of abilities that go through dodging that will hit. Just having Templars near you will kill ya as that Radiant ability will go right through it and you'll die.

Don't forget that you can supplement your regen with tri-stat pots which not only make perma-dodge rolling easier but also increase your stam regen by another 20 for 45 seconds...or rather since that is the cooldown of tri-stats perpetually.

You are also far better going with Stamina cost reduction enchants instead of stamina regen if you want to perma-roll.

I think Dodge *is* the new bolt escape. Radiant hits me through bolt escape as well, along with damn near everything else.

You have to run the Tri Drink if you want that stamina regen...you can't run the tri-stat pot and you would run stamina cost reduction on jewelry..I did the stamina enchants to get an idea what my stamina recovery would be (I didn't have access to any stamina recovery sets because they didn't copy my character over)

The difference between Dodge and Bolt Escape is this...you cover more range with Bolt Escape..and you have Shields to absorb any Radiant Damage.

Dodge will cover less range and will be hit for full damage.

Things like Fear and Fossilize are also more likely to get ya as well as they're able to keep up Range easier then Bolt Escape.

There is nothing in this game that is going to compete with Bolt Escape in terms of being able to escape.

I have to run Tri-drink for magicka regen to be able to Bolt Escape as much as I do, and I also have to drink Tri-stat pots *constantly* to keep my stamina and magicka regen up.

Yes Bolt Escape and Dodge Roll are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. In 1.5 I'd say hands down Bolt Escape was better, especially since Dodge Roll was relatively cheap. Now I think people will find Dodge roller are far more annoying to deal with than Bolters as more people figure out how to exploit the mechanic to the fullest.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I did a post about it, With no Stamina Recovery Set Bonuses and just Stamina Recovery Jewelry Enchants (which suck) you can hit just short of 3k Stamina Regen. This is with Werewolf/Bosmer/Nightblade with champion points and full medium drink ect ect.

You can hit 5k if you run a proper stamina recovery set bonus build. To be able to Perma Dodge roll though you need I believe atleast 4k Stamina Recovery..Only the Bosmer nightblade can achieve that.

Mainly because the Regen is every 2 seconds and I think you can do a dodge roll every 1 second....or 1.5 Either way you'll want 4k regen.

*edit*

Oh yea, just clear it up..Dodging is not the new Bolt Escape...There is a stupid amount of abilities that go through dodging that will hit. Just having Templars near you will kill ya as that Radiant ability will go right through it and you'll die.

Don't forget that you can supplement your regen with tri-stat pots which not only make perma-dodge rolling easier but also increase your stam regen by another 20 for 45 seconds...or rather since that is the cooldown of tri-stats perpetually.

You are also far better going with Stamina cost reduction enchants instead of stamina regen if you want to perma-roll.

I think Dodge *is* the new bolt escape. Radiant hits me through bolt escape as well, along with damn near everything else.

You have to run the Tri Drink if you want that stamina regen...you can't run the tri-stat pot and you would run stamina cost reduction on jewelry..I did the stamina enchants to get an idea what my stamina recovery would be (I didn't have access to any stamina recovery sets because they didn't copy my character over)

The difference between Dodge and Bolt Escape is this...you cover more range with Bolt Escape..and you have Shields to absorb any Radiant Damage.

Dodge will cover less range and will be hit for full damage.

Things like Fear and Fossilize are also more likely to get ya as well as they're able to keep up Range easier then Bolt Escape.

There is nothing in this game that is going to compete with Bolt Escape in terms of being able to escape.

I have to run Tri-drink for magicka regen to be able to Bolt Escape as much as I do, and I also have to drink Tri-stat pots *constantly* to keep my stamina and magicka regen up.

Yes Bolt Escape and Dodge Roll are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. In 1.5 I'd say hands down Bolt Escape was better, especially since Dodge Roll was relatively cheap. Now I think people will find Dodge roller are far more annoying to deal with than Bolters as more people figure out how to exploit the mechanic to the fullest.

I'm sorry, i read that wrong..I was thinking Tri-Food for some reason when ya said tri-stat pot.