Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 30:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
How to: Fix Cyrodiil PvP
blackweb
✭✭✭✭
This post is in response to the following dev post
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157157/update-on-cyrodiil-performance#latest
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 16:20 http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157157/update-on-cyrodiil-performance#latest
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
0
-
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reset the campaign every 24 hours? No, just no. Why on earth would i or anyone for that matter stay and fight for their alliance when everything you just achieved is completely reset the following day without the enemy having to lift a finger? Imagine if you're alliance is getting hit by the other two and being pushed back to the scrolls, every one is just going to log off or go level up in PvE knowing that everything shall be reset the next day with no effort required what so ever.
Friendly fire would be a disaster, we would have team killing and griefers running rampant. People running into your AOE to purposely lock your abilities as you suggested. Half the alliance would stay in the home gates and duel each other rather than go out and fight for keeps in that lag infested zerg war.
The only problem this would solve is the removal of queue times as most of us give up wasting our time in PvP.
4 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Friendly fire wont fix smart heals or cc.. it will just add even more damage calcs that now hit enemies and friends. This wont fix lag.Edited by Rune_Relic on 16 March 2015 16:32Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Reset the campaign every 24 hours? No, just no. Why on earth would i or anyone for that matter stay and fight for their alliance when everything you just achieved is completely reset the following day without the enemy having to lift a finger? Imagine if you're alliance is getting hit by the other two and being pushed back to the scrolls, every one is just going to log off or go level up in PvE knowing that everything shall be reset the next day with no effort required what so ever.
Friendly fire would be a disaster, we would have team killing and griefers running rampant. People running into your AOE to purposely lock your abilities as you suggested. Half the alliance would stay in the home gates and duel each other rather than go out and fight for keeps in that lag infested zerg war.
The only problem this would solve is the removal of queue times as most of us give up wasting our time in PvP.
All continents are reset frequently in PS2. No one complains. PS2 has friendly fire. No one complains.
Which is better:
Lagsploit or friendly fire?
Lagsploit is ruining Cyrodiil PvP. Actually, the grief penalty system in PS2 works very well. Habitual or organized griefers are banned or suspended.
Campaign camping or resetting all campaigns every 24 hours?
No one complains when warp gates are shifted or a continent is locked in PS2. They just go fight elsewhere.
0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Friendly fire wont fix smart heals or cc.. it will just add even more damage calcs that now hit enemies and friends. This wont fix lag.
FF will stop lagsploit cold. Works great in PS2. No one complains.
0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Everything sounds good except for the friendly fire.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Everything sounds good except for the friendly fire.
It takes some getting used to but it stops AE spam cold.
0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »I just want to say that I also played PS2 on Emerald as NC and PHX was the laughing stock outfit of that server.
No skills or tactics involved, just send in as many players as you can and hope for the best.
This sounds like another case of PHX-envy. PHX has outlasted every NC outfit on Jaeger and Waterson. Our numbers remain strong. Our leadership is stable and strong. We hold regular training sessions for our members. We train and mentor leaders for squad, platoon and ops leadership. We are the best trained, best organized and best-led outfit in PS2.
Finally, we dont trash other outfits in or anywhere else. We treat other outfits with respect, friend and foe. We even have rules against trolling public forums and chat channels in game.
You resent PHX because we bow to no one including you. This begs the question
I have identified myself, who are you?
I'm not going to list out my entire MMO-resume, but just know that I am a Tragic Pancake.
My MMO resume is too much to list here.
We recruit hard on emerald but we dont really have to, we get 20-50 new membership applications every day in game on emerald.
The reason is simple. PHX wins, 90%+ of our engagements in PS2. Players want to be part of a winning tradition.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 16:590 -
Pancake-Tragedy✭✭✭✭✭
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
No thanks, first of all, long-term campaigns give them more meaning. Keep them around 30 days imo, but I would like to see the map reset after those 30 days. Also, adding anything PvE related to a PvP area will push away the PvP'rs even more.
4. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
Friendly fire is an interesting concept, but would most likely cause more problems than what it would solve.
7. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
Emperor farming is already an issue, this would make it worse.
10. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
The server already has enough strain on it, and the developers are asking the players to spread out to reduce this strain. Why reduce the servers and increase the severity of the lag, just to make this game even more unplayable?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_BradL on 17 March 2015 22:17Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer1 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭I didnt say 2 campaigns, I said 2 types of campaigns. I suppose you could have 30 day campaigns where the maps were reset every 24 hours. The problem is buff campaigns that are always one color.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_BradL on 17 March 2015 22:190 -
Pancake-Tragedy✭✭✭✭✭I didnt say 2 campaigns, I said 2 types of campaigns. I suppose you could have 30 day campaigns where the maps were reset every 24 hours. The problem is buff campaigns that are always one color.
There already is 2 types of campaigns, Vet and Non-vet. I agree to a point that buff campaigns are a problem, but probably not for the same reasons as you. I dislike buff servers because they take away from the dedicated pvp crowd and reduce the need for players to come in and defend their buffs.
The PvE'rs became jaded and expected those buffs to be present. The s***-storm that came to the forums when guilds would go and mess with those buffs was glorious.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_BradL on 17 March 2015 22:19Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »
Sorry, never heard of you Tragic Pancake.
I don't aim to be known and I don't take myself too seriously in an online gaming culture. That is why I pointed out and criticized your willingness to share your MMO-history. It literally doesn't matter.I didnt say 2 campaigns, I said 2 types of campaigns. I suppose you could have 30 day campaigns where the maps were reset every 24 hours. The problem is buff campaigns that are always one color.
There already is 2 types of campaigns, Vet and Non-vet. I agree to a point that buff campaigns are a problem, but probably not for the same reasons as you. I dislike buff servers because they take away from the dedicated pvp crowd and reduce the need for players to come in and defend their buffs.
The PvE'rs became jaded and expected those buffs to be present. The s***-storm that came to the forums when guilds would go and mess with those buffs was glorious.
Resetting the maps frequently is essential for incentivizing players to play more than one campaign or to spread them out.
I dont think cyrodiil buffs are needed outside of cyrodiil now that we have the champion system.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 17:280 -
Pancake-Tragedy✭✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »
Sorry, never heard of you Tragic Pancake.
I don't aim to be known and I don't take myself too seriously in an online gaming culture. That is why I pointed out and criticized your willingness to share your MMO-history. It literally doesn't matter.I didnt say 2 campaigns, I said 2 types of campaigns. I suppose you could have 30 day campaigns where the maps were reset every 24 hours. The problem is buff campaigns that are always one color.
There already is 2 types of campaigns, Vet and Non-vet. I agree to a point that buff campaigns are a problem, but probably not for the same reasons as you. I dislike buff servers because they take away from the dedicated pvp crowd and reduce the need for players to come in and defend their buffs.
The PvE'rs became jaded and expected those buffs to be present. The s***-storm that came to the forums when guilds would go and mess with those buffs was glorious.
I dont think cyrodiil buffs are needed outside of cyrodiil now that we have the champion system.
I can follow that logic, but I think the original intentions of having buffs outside of Cyrodiil was to provide players with a reason to fight over those buffs.
I'm not really for or against those buffs at this point. I used to be completely against the buffs, but I understand that some players "need a reason" to PvP. I just enjoy having a lot of targets while I PvP.Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on 16 March 2015 17:31Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer2 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »I can follow that logic, but I think the original intentions of having buffs outside of Cyrodiil was to provide players with a reason to fight over those buffs.
I'm not really for or against those buffs at this point. I used to be completely against the buffs, but I understand that some players "need a reason" to PvP. I just enjoy having a lot of targets while I PvP.
Good point.
Players pvp for 2 reasons:
Blood and Treasure
Give them both and they will love you.
They need fun, engaging combat. Lagsploit and lag prevent that.
For treasure give them shinies you can only get in cyrodiil.
There are no cosmetic items in cyrodii such as costumes, mounts and pets?
Why not? Players will knock themselves out to get those status symbols and will take them over buffs anytime.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 17:451 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK. I'm sure your guild is great. Can we please refrain from telling us how great your PS2 guild is. I honesty don't care. Additionally, that "nobody complains" about 24 hour resets there has nothing to do with here. There are shorter campaigns in ESO and they are virtually dead. Players want longer campaigns and while I would love to see friendly fire introduced I would not at all like to see a 24 hour reset. AND we don't need easier Emperor requirements. WE need HARDER requirements for Emperor. lets get real here.
I have no desire whatsoever to play multiple campaigns and I believe most players feel the same way. You're suggestions cheapen the victory IMO and I'd like ZoS to have nothing to do with it.
The ONLY suggestion of yours that makes any sense is the introduction of Friendly Fire, but seems that will introduce a whole new set of problems.
I think I'd much rather they allow full toggle for the post processing lighting and graphic improvements they introduced months back and introduce more meaningful objectives in Cyrodiil to spread out the player base.1 -
Observant✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »I just want to say that I also played PS2 on Emerald as NC and PHX was the laughing stock outfit of that server.
No skills or tactics involved, just send in as many players as you can and hope for the best.
This sounds like another case of PHX-envy. PHX has outlasted every NC outfit on Jaeger and Waterson. Our numbers remain strong. Our leadership is stable and strong. We hold regular training sessions for our members. We train and mentor leaders for squad, platoon and ops leadership. We are the best trained, best organized and best-led outfit in PS2.
Finally, we dont trash other outfits in or anywhere else. We treat other outfits with respect, friend and foe. We even have rules against trolling public forums and chat channels in game.
You resent PHX because we bow to no one including you. This begs the question
I have identified myself, who are you?
I'm not going to list out my entire MMO-resume, but just know that I am a Tragic Pancake.
We recruit hard on emerald but we dont really have to, we get 20-50 new membership applications every day in game on emerald.
The reason is simple. PHX wins, 90%+ of our engagements in PS2. Players want to be part of a winning tradition.
Wait, I thought this post was about "How to fix Cyrodiil"? This sounds more like a recruitment message than anything.
I will always defend my organization. We can discuss Cyrodiil PvP now if you like
k, thanks. I want to point out flaws in what you are proposing/asking.
..Snip the Resume stuff, no one cares...
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
No thanks, first of all, long-term campaigns give them more meaning. Keep them around 30 days imo, but I would like to see the map reset after those 30 days. Also, adding anything PvE related to a PvP area will push away the PvP'rs even more.
4. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
Friendly fire is an interesting concept, but would most likely cause more problems than what it would solve.
7. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
Emperor farming is already an issue, this would make it worse.
10. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
The server already has enough strain on it, and the developers are asking the players to spread out to reduce this strain. Why reduce the servers and increase the severity of the lag, just to make this game even more unplayable?
.
Long term campaigns does NOT equal more meaning. Most people don't have 30 free days a month to push for an Emp position. I'm actually more inclined to play and push in a 7-14 day campaign, because there I know I have a chance.Vehemence1 -
Pancake-Tragedy✭✭✭✭✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »I just want to say that I also played PS2 on Emerald as NC and PHX was the laughing stock outfit of that server.
No skills or tactics involved, just send in as many players as you can and hope for the best.
This sounds like another case of PHX-envy. PHX has outlasted every NC outfit on Jaeger and Waterson. Our numbers remain strong. Our leadership is stable and strong. We hold regular training sessions for our members. We train and mentor leaders for squad, platoon and ops leadership. We are the best trained, best organized and best-led outfit in PS2.
Finally, we dont trash other outfits in or anywhere else. We treat other outfits with respect, friend and foe. We even have rules against trolling public forums and chat channels in game.
You resent PHX because we bow to no one including you. This begs the question
I have identified myself, who are you?
I'm not going to list out my entire MMO-resume, but just know that I am a Tragic Pancake.
We recruit hard on emerald but we dont really have to, we get 20-50 new membership applications every day in game on emerald.
The reason is simple. PHX wins, 90%+ of our engagements in PS2. Players want to be part of a winning tradition.
Wait, I thought this post was about "How to fix Cyrodiil"? This sounds more like a recruitment message than anything.
I will always defend my organization. We can discuss Cyrodiil PvP now if you like
k, thanks. I want to point out flaws in what you are proposing/asking.
..Snip the Resume stuff, no one cares...
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
No thanks, first of all, long-term campaigns give them more meaning. Keep them around 30 days imo, but I would like to see the map reset after those 30 days. Also, adding anything PvE related to a PvP area will push away the PvP'rs even more.
4. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
Friendly fire is an interesting concept, but would most likely cause more problems than what it would solve.
7. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
Emperor farming is already an issue, this would make it worse.
10. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
The server already has enough strain on it, and the developers are asking the players to spread out to reduce this strain. Why reduce the servers and increase the severity of the lag, just to make this game even more unplayable?
.
Long term campaigns does NOT equal more meaning. Most people don't have 30 free days a month to push for an Emp position. I'm actually more inclined to play and push in a 7-14 day campaign, because there I know I have a chance.
Fair enough, I suppose what ones idea of "meaning" means to them in a campaign is very subjective. In my case, Emperor means nothing to me and I'm not going to play in a campaign based on my ability to obtain it. I'd rather play in a campaign where my overall contribution over a period of time matters a little more, however much that may amount to.Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer2 -
CitraBenzoet_ESO✭✭✭Resetting the campaign every 24 hours is not a good idea for a few reasons.
1. It can sometimes take 24 hours of back and forth between the 3 alliances for anything to even happen or change on the map.
2. It would make the work that those who play during "off peak hours" pointless. Why push for anything if in the middle of your play it gets reset?
3. The map already changes enough on its own depending on who is forgoing a night of sleep or skipping work or is already enjoying their Saturday.
Making objectives for getting emperor easier? Why? Go to your alliances *ahem* buff server and go flip emp there if you want it to be easy. Emperor shouldn't be easy to get considering how strong it's passives are. It should be something difficult to get, not just a quest objective achievement for everyone to check off the list.
No, friendly fire would not help or fix anything.
There is a non-vet campaign, people play in it, it can be competitive from what i have heard.
Buffs? Whocares? they can stay, most of the time i forget they are even there. If it gives people a reason to come play then yay, but I dont think i have ever heard someone say "we need to get this keep/scroll so we can have this buff.... "
Special loot and prizes? I guess you have not seen the amazing PVP sets you may have a small chance to get as a reward!You can also buy with the AP you earn at the gates. Cant just get those AP and sets anywhere else but Cyrodiil
Ugh cosmetic stuff.... not why anyone should be PVPing.
Things that would help PVP: My list.
1.fix that thing that needs to be fixed
2. Be helpful to others. We were all PUGS once.... (ok not DEV directed just wanted to keep this in anyways)
3. add some additional PVP objectives, like places to hold and control outside the keeps and transit system.
thats about it.
Edited by CitraBenzoet_ESO on 16 March 2015 19:45DC- Sir Citra Benzoet v15
The Psijic Order - 0.016%
LoM
UESP
IBOB
Mara's Moxie1 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭Whenever the lag gets bad in Cyrodiil I just think back to trying to fly a mosquito around PS circa 2003 and I find nirvana once more.
Though the friendly fire idea is interesting, I don't think some of the AOE abilities where designed with that in mind. For example, NB sap or templar nova. Sap is supposed to heal nearby allies (but with friendly fire you would be damaging them too) and nova has a synergy where you have to run into the middle of the AOE to click it. Not that redesigning some of the AOE skills couldn't be done, it's just not an overnight fix.
I also like not having to worry about being sniped in the back by a friend (or pounding an ally with stray crushing shock spam). Sorcs would be strong though, if someone was focusing you just streak into a group of their friends
Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one1 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭Whenever the lag gets bad in Cyrodiil I just think back to trying to fly a mosquito around PS circa 2003 and I find nirvana once more.
Though the friendly fire idea is interesting, I don't think some of the AOE abilities where designed with that in mind. For example, NB sap or templar nova. Sap is supposed to heal nearby allies (but with friendly fire you would be damaging them too) and nova has a synergy where you have to run into the middle of the AOE to click it. Not that redesigning some of the AOE skills couldn't be done, it's just not an overnight fix.
I also like not having to worry about being sniped in the back by a friend (or pounding an ally with stray crushing shock spam). Sorcs would be strong though, if someone was focusing you just streak into a group of their friends
Really good post. Given that there are multiple kinds of damage and healing+damage, finding ways to mitigate friendly fire should be doable.
Again, friendly fire would end lagsploit overnight and be a welcome change for cyrodiil pvp. Friendly fire would also cause large groups to think twice about stacking up and moving around in huge lagsploit mobs because friendly fire would be combined with enemy fire to vaporize lagsploit groups as it should.
1 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »2. Be helpful to others. We were all PUGS once.... (ok not DEV directed just wanted to keep this in anyways)
This is why we stress n00b-friendly training in all our guilds.
0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭
I agree it would create a dramatic change in the current play style, and group stacking would be much harder/less attractive. I guess I'm just worried it would be too dramatic of a change, but that is just opinion. Maybe if friendly fire damage was like 25-50% of normal damage (so you can't accidentally one shot a light armor friend with no shield up) people wouldn't backlash against the change so much. Thank you for your post regardless of my opinion, it is a system that has worked in other games well; a very interesting and different suggestion worth consideration
A suggestion for mitigating friendly fire is a pvp armor buff. There are two kinds in PlanetSide 2:
1. Flak Armor - mitigates explosive or ae damage.
2. Kinetic Armor - mitigates projectile damage.
Both will not mitigate 100% but they help. These armor buffs could be applied through the world pvp skill line.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 20:280 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭Whenever the lag gets bad in Cyrodiil I just think back to trying to fly a mosquito around PS circa 2003 and I find nirvana once more.
Though the friendly fire idea is interesting, I don't think some of the AOE abilities where designed with that in mind. For example, NB sap or templar nova. Sap is supposed to heal nearby allies (but with friendly fire you would be damaging them too) and nova has a synergy where you have to run into the middle of the AOE to click it. Not that redesigning some of the AOE skills couldn't be done, it's just not an overnight fix.
I also like not having to worry about being sniped in the back by a friend (or pounding an ally with stray crushing shock spam). Sorcs would be strong though, if someone was focusing you just streak into a group of their friends
Really good post. Given that there are multiple kinds of damage and healing+damage, finding ways to mitigate friendly fire should be doable.
Again, friendly fire would end lagsploit overnight and be a welcome change for cyrodiil pvp. Friendly fire would also cause large groups to think twice about stacking up and moving around in huge lagsploit mobs because friendly fire would be combined with enemy fire to vaporize lagsploit groups as it should.
I agree it would create a dramatic change in the current play style, and group stacking would be much harder/less attractive. I guess I'm just worried it would be too dramatic of a change, but that is just opinion. Maybe if friendly fire damage was like 25-50% of normal damage (so you can't accidentally one shot a light armor friend with no shield up) people wouldn't backlash against the change so much. Thank you for your post regardless of my opinion, it is a system that has worked in other games well; a very interesting and different suggestion worth consideration Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one0 -
runagate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like this thread, as I didn't think I would more completely disagree with someone's ideas to fix AvAvA after all I've read, but this is definitely takes the top spot. I was permared in AC so it's not like I've had time to think about this while experiencing 3 FPS for a couple weeks in Cyrodiil and contemplate past lessons.
Considering the number of people that level alts just to spy now, imagine the exploits when there's friendly fire. That alone completely negates any potential benefits.0 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭ZOS is on the right track by looking for behavior based solutions for lag in Cyrodiil PvP.
There are three things we know about my suggestions:
1. BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, ALL OF ZOS EFFORTS TO REDUCE LAG IN CYRODIIL HAVE FAILED.
2. All of my suggestions are based on experience and have been APPLIED SUCCESSFULLY IN OTHER GAMES.
2. NOTHING WILL STOP AE SPAM AND ASSOCIATED LAG FASTER THAN FRIENDLY FIRE.
Please continue to look for behavior based solutions ZOS.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »I just want to say that I also played PS2 on Emerald as NC and PHX was the laughing stock outfit of that server.
No skills or tactics involved, just send in as many players as you can and hope for the best.
This sounds like another case of PHX-envy. PHX has outlasted every NC outfit on Jaeger and Waterson. Our numbers remain strong. Our leadership is stable and strong. We hold regular training sessions for our members. We train and mentor leaders for squad, platoon and ops leadership. We are the best trained, best organized and best-led outfit in PS2.
Finally, we dont trash other outfits in or anywhere else. We treat other outfits with respect, friend and foe. We even have rules against trolling public forums and chat channels in game.
You resent PHX because we bow to no one including you. This begs the question
I have identified myself, who are you?
I'm not going to list out my entire MMO-resume, but just know that I am a Tragic Pancake.
We recruit hard on emerald but we dont really have to, we get 20-50 new membership applications every day in game on emerald.
The reason is simple. PHX wins, 90%+ of our engagements in PS2. Players want to be part of a winning tradition.
Wait, I thought this post was about "How to fix Cyrodiil"? This sounds more like a recruitment message than anything.
I will always defend my organization. We can discuss Cyrodiil PvP now if you like
k, thanks. I want to point out flaws in what you are proposing/asking.
..Snip the Resume stuff, no one cares...
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
No thanks, first of all, long-term campaigns give them more meaning. Keep them around 30 days imo, but I would like to see the map reset after those 30 days. Also, adding anything PvE related to a PvP area will push away the PvP'rs even more.
4. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
Friendly fire is an interesting concept, but would most likely cause more problems than what it would solve.
7. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
Emperor farming is already an issue, this would make it worse.
10. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
The server already has enough strain on it, and the developers are asking the players to spread out to reduce this strain. Why reduce the servers and increase the severity of the lag, just to make this game even more unplayable?
.
Long term campaigns does NOT equal more meaning. Most people don't have 30 free days a month to push for an Emp position. I'm actually more inclined to play and push in a 7-14 day campaign, because there I know I have a chance.
Says you. Long term campaigns have more meaning to me and based on campaign pop levels your statement seems hollow. Most players are hanging out in the 30 day and 14 day campaigns and since people decide what to do with their own time I'd say they do have 30 free days a month to push for Emp. If they really want it. If they don't they can slither over to the campaigns with constant 1 bar pop. We don't need to be forced to help out people that don't want to put the time or effort into gaining EMP through daily campaign resets..lol.2 -
mortuusbae✭✭✭2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
Won't work ^
Cyrodiil now is a zerg and everyone is getting emp left and right no longer a challenge
Aoe friendly fire makes no sense
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
Emp farming
Result:
Locked out players, single targeting zergs (AKA Elder Bows Online), siege weapon locking out players, radiant destruction online, blockspam online, every aoe useless online, Emperor Online, *** campaign rewards Online.
This is not a freaking FPS1 -
blackweb✭✭✭✭mortuusbae wrote: »2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
Won't work ^
Cyrodiil now is a zerg and everyone is getting emp left and right no longer a challenge
Aoe friendly fire makes no sense
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
Emp farming
Result:
Locked out players, single targeting zergs (AKA Elder Bows Online), siege weapon locking out players, radiant destruction online, blockspam online, every aoe useless online, Emperor Online, *** campaign rewards Online.
This is not a freaking FPS
I have news for you, there is Emp farming now, by the very few. Lets say one player gets emporer per day. That would be 365 emporers per faction per year or 1000 emporers per year. The current ESO player base is about 770000. Lets do the math
1000/700000 * 100 = 0.14%
How is .14% of the ESO player base getting emporer farming?
No, its not a freaking FPS, its a fantasy MMO with failing world pvp. The ZOS devs have admitted that they have failed to stop lag in Cyrodiil. Players are intentionally using lag to win, it is called LAGSPLOIT. There is only one way to stop them, using other players.
Every fantasy MMO that does world pvp has the same problem, what to do about AE spam in world pvp?
Technical solutions have failed. ZOS is right to consider solutions that modify player behavior. Players who like the current easily-exploited system will oppose any change.
One campaign is overcrowded while others stand empty or are dominated by one side. They are called buff campaigns.
There is a fundamental problem that must be solved:
A new player goes to Cyrodiil. Sooner or later that player encounters an opposing lagsploit group. Either that player learns to lagsploit him or herself or they never come back. It is impossible to win against lagsploit. We know from experience that when players have no chance of winning, they simply give up and refuse to play. That is what is happening now. It is impossible for players to win when their faction is out-populated by orders of magnitude.
If you leave things the way they are in ESO world PvP ZOS, ESO will lose half or more of its paying player base in the next 12-24 months.
End lagsploit, implement friendly fire.
End buff campaigns, implement frequent map reset.
End emporer farming by one guild on one faction camping a ghost campaign.
Edited by blackweb on 16 March 2015 22:510 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭Well, anything is better than the current zergball pvp (1.6 seems to have made it worse somehow). Maybe it would help if siege weapons were actually dangerous to players?Edited by McDoogs on 17 March 2015 18:200
-
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭This post is in response to the following dev post
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157157/update-on-cyrodiil-performance#latest
First, my world PvP credentials so that you will understand that I know what I am talking about. I lead the following multi-gaming community
http://phoenixbattalion.guildlaunch.com/
Our ESO recruiting message
<Phoenix Battalion> is recruiting! We are a multi-gaming community with over 2000 members. We play Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, WoW and PlanetSide 2. We specialize in large-scale PvP. We have experienced leadership, Teamspeak 3 and a website. /w to join
Our PlanetSide 2 outfit:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/outfit-37509488620618229.php
which has 2349 members, the largest on Emerald-NC.
I have been leading world pvp for more than 10 years, since Planetside 1 in 2003.
How to fix ESO Cyrodiil World PvP:
1. Cyrodiil buffs work in Cyrodiil only - this will eliminate one faction camping one campaign for buffs.
2. Reset all campaigns every 24 hours - set all keeps to neutral guarded by strong imperial guards or divide them equally among all 3 factions.
3. Friendly fire for all abilities, especially AE abilities - this will eliminate lagsploit overnight.
4. Decaying grief system for friendly fire with ability lock - lock player abilities in Cyrodil for excessive friendly fire, starting with 2 minute ability lock and increasing penalties.
5. Relax emporer requirements to holding 50%+ of territory/keeps/outposts and 2 enemy scrolls.
6. Reset emperor when campaign is reset every 24 hours.
7. 2 types of campaigns - veteran and non veteran.
These changes will have the following beneficial effects.
1. Stop campaign camping by one faction
2. End lagsploit.
3. Stop hundreds of players from stacking on top of each other and spamming AE abilities.
4. Incentivize players to play more than one campaign.
5. Make emperor more attainable.
6. Make combat more dynamic and balanced between factions.
How do I know this will work? A system very much like this works great in PlanetSide 2 where no one faction dominates all the time and combat is very dynamic and fluid. PS2 has many ae damage abilities such as grenades and an effective grief system. If you dont want to get weapons lock, dont hit friendlies.
Problem solved, enjoy Cyrodiil pvp.
You never played DAOC ? Which is still going a 15 year old game .. This is a cult classic ... The PVP which is actually RVR or AVA is what this game is based off of..I would say DAOC is one of the best PvP games ever..... The main guy in this company helped start DAOC ... This is not a FPS game and you can't have that.... Most people spend weeks or months building toons and when they take them to PvP they die in less then 2 secs.... This will drive your pops out of PvP.. Slower combat and limit campaign transfers ... They have a good system to build from.
.PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables0
