Come on Zenimax...

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2015

squshy7 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Not to hijack this post, but to say NBs have escapes is simply wrong. An invis potion last for 11 seconds, the skill last for 2.5. Everyone has a better escape than NBs with a simple potion. I use the potion as a NB...

you should learn to use your shade.

you should play a NB.

teleporting in the middle of an uppercut cast time has a pretty hilarious outcome.

as does cloaking.

Have you ever seen a sorc Streak-roll? There are some clever workarounds to those sorts of problems.

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Not to hijack this post, but to say NBs have escapes is simply wrong. An invis potion last for 11 seconds, the skill last for 2.5. Everyone has a better escape than NBs with a simple potion. I use the potion as a NB...

i hate to tell you but detect pots last somewhere around 40 seconds now for some reason, i think they should put them back to 11 seconds for balance .

Spangla · March 2015

Soulac wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

When a class can do everything part of the 'big three' then yes it is OP.

Sorc

DPS: Yes
Escape: Yes
Take Damage: Yes

NB

DPS: Yes
Escape: Yes
Take Damage: No

DK:

DPS: Yes
Escape: No
Take Damage: No

Templar:

DPS: No (healer)
Escape: No
Take Damage: Yes

The big three could be moved into many more forms, But let's not complicate matters.

What if I told you that a NB can do all three as well?

NBs are incredible good tanks in PvP with an infinity amount of Ressources if they wish.
On the other side, they make great healers and are able to be very bursty.

Are Sorcs and NB op now?

Sorry Soulac - love your builds and what you do with nb's - however you cannot kick out the kinda of dps a sorc can whilst taking the same punishment and being able to have a guaranteed escape.

My rating

NB
DPS - Yes
TAKE DAMAGE - NO
ESCAPE - From noobs yes, from sorcs no = Occasionally

OR

NB
Dps - No
Take Damage - Yes
Escape - From noobs yes, from sorcs no = Occasionally

Snit · March 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Sorry Soulac - love your builds and what you do with nb's - however you cannot kick out the kinda of dps a sorc can whilst taking the same punishment and being able to have a guaranteed escape.

Sorcs can do terrific Burst DPS by stacking spell damage. They can be tanky if they stack magicka. They can be extremely mobile if they stack magicka regen.

But no one sorc can stack all three. We all get the same number of gearslots.

Derra · March 2015

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Obviously i meant DK's can take damage.

And i'm talking about common builds. Nearly everyone is running the same build as the next person in that class, Then you get some running slightly different, Deny if you want but this is true.

No class should be able to take damage while dps'ing higher and be able to escape. Fact.

Duuude. A sorc can tank 1 competent player with shields. Two will slaughter you if they are able to press more than one skill.

squshy7 · March 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

squshy7 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Not to hijack this post, but to say NBs have escapes is simply wrong. An invis potion last for 11 seconds, the skill last for 2.5. Everyone has a better escape than NBs with a simple potion. I use the potion as a NB...

you should learn to use your shade.

you should play a NB.

teleporting in the middle of an uppercut cast time has a pretty hilarious outcome.

as does cloaking.

Have you ever seen a sorc Streak-roll? There are some clever workarounds to those sorts of problems.

cloak-roll breaks cloak, negating the point of cloak.

I have yet to try teleport roll, though I imagine it's not as effective as streak-roll.

Spangla · March 2015

Derra wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Obviously i meant DK's can take damage.

And i'm talking about common builds. Nearly everyone is running the same build as the next person in that class, Then you get some running slightly different, Deny if you want but this is true.

No class should be able to take damage while dps'ing higher and be able to escape. Fact.

Duuude. A sorc can tank 1 competent player with shields. Two will slaughter you if they are able to press more than one skill.

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

squshy7 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

squshy7 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Not to hijack this post, but to say NBs have escapes is simply wrong. An invis potion last for 11 seconds, the skill last for 2.5. Everyone has a better escape than NBs with a simple potion. I use the potion as a NB...

you should learn to use your shade.

you should play a NB.

teleporting in the middle of an uppercut cast time has a pretty hilarious outcome.

as does cloaking.

Have you ever seen a sorc Streak-roll? There are some clever workarounds to those sorts of problems.

cloak-roll breaks cloak, negating the point of cloak.

I have yet to try teleport roll, though I imagine it's not as effective as streak-roll.

for night blades its roll cloak. roll to get projectiles or charges that would hit you off you then turn invis so they cant target you.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Obviously i meant DK's can take damage.

And i'm talking about common builds. Nearly everyone is running the same build as the next person in that class, Then you get some running slightly different, Deny if you want but this is true.

No class should be able to take damage while dps'ing higher and be able to escape. Fact.

Duuude. A sorc can tank 1 competent player with shields. Two will slaughter you if they are able to press more than one skill.

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

So you are saying that the sorcerer class only has access to sorcerer class skills? So a sorcerer, dragon knight or templar can't use Darkcloak or Shadow Image? I want a refund!

Pancake-Tragedy · March 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Obviously i meant DK's can take damage.

And i'm talking about common builds. Nearly everyone is running the same build as the next person in that class, Then you get some running slightly different, Deny if you want but this is true.

No class should be able to take damage while dps'ing higher and be able to escape. Fact.

Duuude. A sorc can tank 1 competent player with shields. Two will slaughter you if they are able to press more than one skill.

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

That escape isn't guaranteed. Learn2charge

Snit · March 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

If BE is a guaranteed escape from you, then this is a player skill issue.

Spangla · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

If BE is a guaranteed escape from you, then this is a player skill issue.

bs

Rune_Relic · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

If BE is a guaranteed escape from you, then this is a player skill issue.

Cant chase when cc'd

Pancake-Tragedy · March 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

If BE is a guaranteed escape from you, then this is a player skill issue.

Cant chase when cc'd

Then you got out-played. Better luck next time.

Snit · March 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

If BE is a guaranteed escape from you, then this is a player skill issue.

Cant chase when cc'd

You know you can CC the sorc, right? And that sorc stam pools tend to be micro-size?

Kypho · March 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Even without nirn its ridiculous - Plus they can choose to disengage whenever they want lol

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Templar:

DPS: No (healer)
Escape: No
Take Damage: Yes

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Think @AbraXuSeXile 's point was that Sorcs have 1 build which far outweighs the effectiveness of other classes if they were trying to focus in doing all 3 of the things.

Most classes can pick any 2 out of 3 when it comes to damage, tanking, escape. Sorc can do all 3 effortlessly.

Other classes than sorc can try and focus on all 3 but they will less effective than a sorc at it.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

To BE or not to BE ? That is the question :d

I think we all know the answer to this. (:

I honestly think sorcs should instant explode if they try and BE 4 times in 10s.

Spangla wrote: »

Yes which is when they use their guaranteed escape - That no other class is privvy to.

The level of ignorance and QQ in this thread is of epic proportions, I don't even know where to begin.

truth hurts?

Kypho · March 2015

OPcerers trying to defend OPness

Pancake-Tragedy · March 2015

Kypho wrote: »

no. not bs, its called BE.

Kypho · March 2015

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

no. not bs, its called BE.

Thats potato. Or a tradegy of a pancake?

eliisra · March 2015

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't know if those are really the big 3. I think that's kind of a silly categorization. Dying has no penalty in this game other than a brief opportunity cost, why does escape matter? You don't get AP escaping. I think escape is one of those things overrated by night-blade RPers.

You try running/walking for days to reach a keep, while stuck in combat. More than "a brief opportunity" will be lost, when dying adds 10 minutes to my walking simulator. I might also loose my good mood and patience. Escaping matters.

Escapes are also LoS and re-positioning tools in battles. It allows you to break focus briefly and get back on track.

But fair enough, escaping doesn't mean much if you're with a big group. They die, you might as well die to, instead of blinking around alone in the wilderness. I wouldn't count running away as a top 3 thingy either.

Soulac · March 2015

Spangla wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

When a class can do everything part of the 'big three' then yes it is OP.

Sorc

DPS: Yes
Escape: Yes
Take Damage: Yes

NB

DPS: Yes
Escape: Yes
Take Damage: No

DK:

DPS: Yes
Escape: No
Take Damage: No

Templar:

DPS: No (healer)
Escape: No
Take Damage: Yes

The big three could be moved into many more forms, But let's not complicate matters.

What if I told you that a NB can do all three as well?

NBs are incredible good tanks in PvP with an infinity amount of Ressources if they wish.
On the other side, they make great healers and are able to be very bursty.

Are Sorcs and NB op now?

Sorry Soulac - love your builds and what you do with nb's - however you cannot kick out the kinda of dps a sorc can whilst taking the same punishment and being able to have a guaranteed escape.

My rating

NB
DPS - Yes
TAKE DAMAGE - NO
ESCAPE - From noobs yes, from sorcs no = Occasionally

OR

NB
Dps - No
Take Damage - Yes
Escape - From noobs yes, from sorcs no = Occasionally

I think I wasn't clear enough. Of course not all three things in the same build, but a NB is able to to everything of that, same as a sorc.

NB can take a lot of dmg and deal mediocre Dps, and also get a very good escape chance with slotted shadow image and cloak.
If you go for burst you have probably less defense, but you deal a lot of dmg and same escape options as the tank version
A healing NB can deal a lot of dmg too, since heals scaling with power and resource, again the same escape options.

I prefer a lot of dmg, that's why I chose a NB in first place.

k2blader · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

Sorcs can do terrific Burst DPS by stacking spell damage. They can be tanky if they stack magicka. They can be extremely mobile if they stack magicka regen.

But no one sorc can stack all three. We all get the same number of gearslots.

Yep. I've been going the spell damage route, which makes me squish-Eee with a capital E and very noticeably restricted on resource use for shields and BE. That's why I couldn't figure out all the crying about the invincible, uber shield stacking, continuously BE spamming, 15k overload/shard smackdown super sorcs. Anyway, now I'm a bit intrigued by the "full magicka" option and may try it out to see the difference; but I'm guessing that'll make me hit like a sneeze which is just no fun, imo.

Also, thank you @Pancake Tragedy for your numbers on the other thread that got closed.

Kypho · March 2015

average shield cost (you can lower it, but WHY???? no need at all): 1500 from 30000 magicka. not hard to get+ 11k fragment hit is easy to get. you can BE a lot even if you spam shield. Sorcerer: best tank, best dps, best escapeer. ZoS balance, always a fail.

SilvyrNixe · March 2015

Wow, the 'Player Vs Player' really lives up to it's name in this section of the forums.

Kypho · March 2015

DarkRaine wrote: »

Wow, the 'Player Vs Player' really lives up to it's name in this section of the forums.

Here is no lag at least.

bosmern_ESO · March 2015

ESO PvP is probably one of the most balanced pvp out there.

AltusVenifus · March 2015

Personally, I think this is the most out of balance class issue we have had yet. I remember the DK Vamps and that could be number one, but the current regen magic sorc build is silly good. It reminds me of the don't nerf DK forums.

I just laugh at the sorcs who defend the class right now. Deep down they all know or they wouldn't be on these posts screaming bloody murder.

Anyway enjoy it while it lasts. Also, the complainers are not going to get you nerfed, it would take a blind deaf and dumb programmer not to see what is going on.

SilvyrNixe · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Personally, I think this is the most out of balance class issue we have had yet. I remember the DK Vamps and that could be number one, but the current regen magic sorc build is silly good. It reminds me of the don't nerf DK forums.

I just laugh at the sorcs who defend the class right now. Deep down they all know or they wouldn't be on these posts screaming bloody murder.

Anyway enjoy it while it lasts. Also, the complainers are not going to get you nerfed, it would take a blind deaf and dumb programmer not to see what is going on.

I just hope that ESO doesn't pull what TERA Online did and cater to the largest fan base. It sucked and was horrible in that game, so I hope they don't do it here as well.

Erock25 · March 2015

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Personally, I think this is the most out of balance class issue we have had yet. I remember the DK Vamps and that could be number one, but the current regen magic sorc build is silly good. It reminds me of the don't nerf DK forums.

I just laugh at the sorcs who defend the class right now. Deep down they all know or they wouldn't be on these posts screaming bloody murder.

Anyway enjoy it while it lasts. Also, the complainers are not going to get you nerfed, it would take a blind deaf and dumb programmer not to see what is going on.

You're basically wrong on all counts but I'm sure implying that the Devs are idiots if they don't nerf this will surely make them see things your way!

AltusVenifus · March 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Personally, I think this is the most out of balance class issue we have had yet. I remember the DK Vamps and that could be number one, but the current regen magic sorc build is silly good. It reminds me of the don't nerf DK forums.

I just laugh at the sorcs who defend the class right now. Deep down they all know or they wouldn't be on these posts screaming bloody murder.

Anyway enjoy it while it lasts. Also, the complainers are not going to get you nerfed, it would take a blind deaf and dumb programmer not to see what is going on.

You're basically wrong on all counts but I'm sure implying that the Devs are idiots if they don't nerf this will surely make them see things your way!

not trying to make them see my way. It is obvious.