Why isn't anyone pushing for more CP from the conversion?

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2015

Snit wrote: »

If you're removing EXP from achievements, you're making it harder for folks to level their veteran ranks.

Well the exp potions ain't gonna sell themselves! /sarcasm

Darlgon · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

Pretty sure I got XP from both, say, getting a skyshard AND from getting the zonewide skyshard achievement, but I have not specifically tracked that myself. However I do know my skills level up at the same time.

kojou · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

It doesn't really matter whether the XP is applied for killing the monster the first time, or for getting the achievement. Either way you are only getting it once, and if you already did it before 1.6 then you are out of luck on you main character.

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Slurg · February 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I wouldnt mind to get 90 points instead of 70 just to be able to get the first passives. But actually 70 points is okay. It all depends on the rate you actually gain CP.

Yeah this is spot on. I feel that since we are v14 we should be able to unlock the level 30 passives from the get go.

Now that I've actually seen the new system on PTS, of all the suggestions, 90 seems to make the most sense as the cap so those passives can be unlocked.

Remember waaay back when they were going to give everyone with a veteran character 30 points so everyone could play around with the new champion system right away? If giving people a chance to test the new system early on is really what they want to accomplish, reconfiguring the conversion rate to give more points and set the cap at 90 for a V14+ to unlock extra passives would be a good way to do that.

Slurg · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks! There are at least three threads floating around today on this XP for achievements issue so I think a lot of people would appreciate clarification.

Kragorn · February 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

If they aren't meant to apply to champ XP, I hope they don't get chopped out completely and no longer award vet XP either at that point .

Oh don't worry, ZOS will be very quick to nerf anything that actually reduces the grind-fest they've built here.

Bloodfang · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

It's pretty much recognized that characters over VR6 will become overall less versatile and powerful with 1.6, and that one needs anywhere from 300-900 CP gets you back to where you were before the update. Does this not bother anyone else? The original 30CP was indeed terrible, but 70 is only barely better as it still asks players to sacrifice a good chunk what they've gained since they started playing. I'm fine with all the ability changes (even if the main, niche advantage of my Argonian NB is getting shafted), but this still seems like a glaring problem with 1.6.

Not remotely true. Even as little as 100-200 CP will boost you OVER what we are right now, effectiveness wise. Hell My PvE Tank build will be STRONGER the day 1.6 hits, my DPS spec is only weaker in respect to Crit but since Crit is undervalued without soft caps it really won't effect me much. My Healing spec (I'm a NB) will be stronger the day 1.6 hits with the only exception being how much damage I will take with horribly low Armor/Spell Resistance. The only 2 areas where I will actually be weaker is solo Grinding and PvP, both will be fixed with a little over 100 CP. I did have to change some gear/Glyphs but all in all I'm perfectly fine with 70 to start. The issue isn't that ZoS is only giving us 70, the issue is there are too many Players who refuse to tweak their gear, Glyphs, Abilities and just expect 1.6 to be the I-Win button. Adapt or perish.

My templar tank is weaker in 1.6 (Yes with all 70 points put in), to get me back to where I was I'd need about 100-200 CP points just as you estimated. So yes I can kinda confirm this.

Stalwart385 · February 2015

I think 90 cp should put you back where you were in 1.5. Since there is no new content in 1.6 they have to give us something to play for. So objective one when 1.6 goes live is to get 20 cp.

Cuyler · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

Thanks for the info! How about a comment on the topic of thread however? kinda came off the rails there

pppontus · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

@ZOS_GinaBruno For the achievement. Unless you can get like 150K XP for one Zombie, but that'd be even worse, right?

Darlgon · February 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

Pretty sure I got XP from both, say, getting a skyshard AND from getting the zonewide skyshard achievement, but I have not specifically tracked that myself. However I do know my skills level up at the same time.

Oh. here it is...

Just tested on Live.. and NO XP for getting Slaughterfish acheivement. Only quest I know that I can currently do without finding a location and getting XP for finding it or killing something and getting XP for killing it plus an acheivement.

glak · February 2015

How did @Father get in her quote?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Ruht roh rhaggy! Achievements to get the XP nerf bat before B2P!!

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

You also now get exp from achievements, so you will get CP fast (unless you have done most achievements, then you will cry)

Just to avoid any potential confusion, we want to clarify that you will not be able to gain XP from achievements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Are you removing XP from the Veteran Dungeon achievements? Because they do give XP in 1.5, at least some of the Veteran Slayer achievements do. I recently got a large amount of XP for one of the achievements in Wayrest Sewers.

You're getting XP from completing the achievement, or killing the monsters for the achievement? Sorry, just want to make sure we're both on the same page.

Pretty sure I got XP from both, say, getting a skyshard AND from getting the zonewide skyshard achievement, but I have not specifically tracked that myself. However I do know my skills level up at the same time.

Oh. here it is...

Just tested on Live.. and NO XP for getting Slaughterfish acheivement. Only quest I know that I can currently do without finding a location and getting XP for finding it or killing something and getting XP for killing it plus an acheivement.

Not all achievements give the experience, like Attorneyatlawl pointed out.

Locke_ESO · February 2015

If each Champion point is 400,000 exp and VR14 is 14 million experience then we are getting 2x Champion points for leveling to VR14 (14mil divided by 400k = 35 champion points). Personally I'm not fussed about being "compensated" for XP I have gained as a VR14. If they released VR15-16 for example I would not expect them to automatically level me to VR16 on patch day.

The only people really getting screwed are people with multiple VR characters that are losing out because of the 70 CP cap they have put on allocations. I don't really understand why they dont just do a like for like conversion for all (i.e VR14 get 35 CP, VR1 with 800,000 gets 2 CP etc) and then maybe give VR14s a little extra.

Rydik · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

So "Vet x Slayer" achives giving 150k is unintended!? Lol, so one more way of obtaining xp will be nerfed, nice...
With every new change I'm starting to feel that we were really paid beta testers for console release, and everything we accomplished in past year will be wiped.

Aimelin · February 2015

Rydik wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

So "Vet x Slayer" achives giving 150k is unintended!? Lol, so one more way of obtaining xp will be nerfed, nice...
With every new change I'm starting to feel that we were really paid beta testers for console release, and everything we accomplished in past year will be wiped.

That's pretty much what it is, stats not getting the "10% conversion", CP system setting you BACK, so yea, grind your first 300 points to get back to where you were on live ... another failed delay of removing the vet ranks, which if they don't do shortly before or after console launch, consoles gonna lose alot of ppl like pc did, they just need to man up & convert it.

next thing you know, like you said, achievement xp is gonna get nerfed or removed lol

kaithuzar · February 2015

@zos , I think what you guys are believing is a "small %" is larger than you might think. I know a decent amount of people including myself that play 1 character. That character is maxed out with everything completed. There is not more quest, no more dungeons, no more things to find, collect, or do. There is absolutely no way I can earn more champion points on this character without starting over with a new character. I hate to say thanks for screwing us, but I hope you can do something about this before we officially consider leaving. Even if you are going free to play, in a game that shuns players who've completed everything; well that's not a game I wish to be a part of.

asteldian · February 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

It's pretty much recognized that characters over VR6 will become overall less versatile and powerful with 1.6, and that one needs anywhere from 300-900 CP gets you back to where you were before the update. Does this not bother anyone else? The original 30CP was indeed terrible, but 70 is only barely better as it still asks players to sacrifice a good chunk what they've gained since they started playing. I'm fine with all the ability changes (even if the main, niche advantage of my Argonian NB is getting shafted), but this still seems like a glaring problem with 1.6.

Not remotely true. Even as little as 100-200 CP will boost you OVER what we are right now, effectiveness wise. Hell My PvE Tank build will be STRONGER the day 1.6 hits, my DPS spec is only weaker in respect to Crit but since Crit is undervalued without soft caps it really won't effect me much. My Healing spec (I'm a NB) will be stronger the day 1.6 hits with the only exception being how much damage I will take with horribly low Armor/Spell Resistance. The only 2 areas where I will actually be weaker is solo Grinding and PvP, both will be fixed with a little over 100 CP. I did have to change some gear/Glyphs but all in all I'm perfectly fine with 70 to start. The issue isn't that ZoS is only giving us 70, the issue is there are too many Players who refuse to tweak their gear, Glyphs, Abilities and just expect 1.6 to be the I-Win button. Adapt or perish.

My templar tank is weaker in 1.6 (Yes with all 70 points put in), to get me back to where I was I'd need about 100-200 CP points just as you estimated. So yes I can kinda confirm this.

There is no denying builds need to change, but I am not so sure we are weaker. My Templar tank in 1.6 is tough as nails, my 1.5 version didn't fair so well, but adjusting the build ensured vet dungeons were a walk in the park. DPS wise I am also superior to live.
The one thing that does seem uncomfortable is my new armor value as on live I am hard capped.

XEVENEX · February 2015

With the way the Champion System works, 1/4 of the total points gets you roughly 1/2 of the total power that can be obtained from the system. At 1 CP per day it will still take you 2.5 YEARS to acquire 1/4 of the points (900).

Enodoc · February 2015

Rydik wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

So "Vet x Slayer" achives giving 150k is unintended!? Lol, so one more way of obtaining xp will be nerfed, nice...
With every new change I'm starting to feel that we were really paid beta testers for console release, and everything we accomplished in past year will be wiped.

Is fixing a bug really a nerf? I thought a nerf was intentionally making something weaker, not removing something that should never have existed.

Rydik · February 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

So "Vet x Slayer" achives giving 150k is unintended!? Lol, so one more way of obtaining xp will be nerfed, nice...
With every new change I'm starting to feel that we were really paid beta testers for console release, and everything we accomplished in past year will be wiped.

Is fixing a bug really a nerf? I thought a nerf was intentionally making something weaker, not removing something that should never have existed.

Yup, spellscar xp obtain rate was bug too, and now it's nerfed

McDoogs · February 2015

Rydik wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

So "Vet x Slayer" achives giving 150k is unintended!? Lol, so one more way of obtaining xp will be nerfed, nice...
With every new change I'm starting to feel that we were really paid beta testers for console release, and everything we accomplished in past year will be wiped.

Is fixing a bug really a nerf? I thought a nerf was intentionally making something weaker, not removing something that should never have existed.

Yup, spellscar xp obtain rate was bug too, and now it's nerfed

I don't see how that would be a bug, those mobs gave the same XP per kill as any others...

Cuyler · February 2015

Op was about how many CPs we're getting upon conversion, not about XP or XP for achievements. Lets get back to that.

kojou · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Before we got sidetracked on the discussion about whether XP is/will be awarded for achievements the topic was why aren't we pushing for more, because it seems like the overall consensus is that maybe those of us who have done more end game achievements on our main characters will be at a disadvantage to someone that has a VR1 who hasn't done any of the "Silver" or "Gold" content.

Is there any possibility that champion points could be rewarded for certain achievements that imply that a player has done a lot of unrepeatable content? I'm not asking for a direct conversion of Achievement Points to Champion Points (although I wouldn't mind since I have a little over 11k), but there are some achievements such as "Tamriel Master Cave Delver", "Tamriel Expert Adventurer", "Indomitable Advernturer", "Dungeon Lord", the various dungeon achievements etc... that imply that we have done content that can not be repeated and received XP that will basically be erased with 1.6 when we were told that all of our XP would be tracked and we would get some credit for it. For example I would not have finished off Cadwell's Gold if I had known that the XP would not be counted on my main.

If not then I would ask that ZOS developers put a larger focus on getting XP from things like doing quests, dolmens, and killing world bosses, because we don't grind things like spellscar because we like it. We do it because it is the fastest way to level. I personally would much rather level going through the story line and completing things in the various zones.

Faugaun · February 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

With the way the Champion System works, 1/4 of the total points gets you roughly 1/2 of the total power that can be obtained from the system. At 1 CP per day it will still take you 2.5 YEARS to acquire 1/4 of the points (900).

I think you should check you math again....for defile skill it takes 41 points of 100 (41%) to get 50% of that stars power.

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/thief/shadow/defile-star-calculator/

Also the skill with the most favorable curve takes 29 of 100 (29%) to get 50% of that stars total power.

http://asolutionaday.com/elder-scrolls-calculators/warrior/lord/heavy-armor-focus-star-calculator/

Everything else is somewhere in between I would say a more accurate estimate is 35-37% or 1300ish CP +/- 50 CP.

Please do you math or use a calculator before making assertions.....

Also your assumptions are incorrect....tale the passives light armor focus, medium armor focus, heavy armor focus.....you only need 1 of these.

Or the 5 or so weapon type skills...you will only need 1 or 2 of these...

And my stamina build doesn't care about the magicka regen skill...

What about bashing focus on my character that doesn't use a shield...

there are lots of these details of abilities that you probably do not need certain stars...so in reality even though 50% of total power from the entire system occurs at around 1300 CP.....when you consider only the stars useful to your character it is more like 500 CP....suppose 1 CP worth on enlightenment each day, at 1 hour of play per day .... In 1.5 years you will
Have your character pretty darn powerful. A more hardcore player who actively grinds and find a spot more effective than intended who plays 5 hours a day will reach this 50% of character power point in less than half that time (under 9 months)...add 10% ring of Mara, 10% subscriber bonus, 5% PvP bonus and paid store 10% boost in exp (35%) then you can cut that down to about 6 months.....but it won't just be that character that has 50% of its maximum power ....it will be all your characters ...

daemonios · February 2015

Locke_ESO wrote: »

If each Champion point is 400,000 exp and VR14 is 14 million experience then we are getting 2x Champion points for leveling to VR14 (14mil divided by 400k = 35 champion points). Personally I'm not fussed about being "compensated" for XP I have gained as a VR14. If they released VR15-16 for example I would not expect them to automatically level me to VR16 on patch day.

The only people really getting screwed are people with multiple VR characters that are losing out because of the 70 CP cap they have put on allocations. I don't really understand why they dont just do a like for like conversion for all (i.e VR14 get 35 CP, VR1 with 800,000 gets 2 CP etc) and then maybe give VR14s a little extra.

That is NOT how it works. An account with a single fresh VR14 character will NOT get 70 CP. Only if you've accrued XP over the bare minimum for reaching VR14 or if you have several VR1+ characters which in the aggregate give you the 70 CP.

TehMagnus · February 2015

Well because 70CP was more than we ever expected we could have so you know... chose your battles...

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

Slurg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks! There are at least three threads floating around today on this XP for achievements issue so I think a lot of people would appreciate clarification.

Ok, we can confirm that some achievements will grant XP upon completion. This is intended, and we won't be removing it.

Sorry for the confusion, guys!

As for the topic at-hand, a maximum of 70 Champion Points was a number we felt was fair for the conversion and with the launch of Update 6 around the corner, it will not be changed. That said, we understand there's some concern about earning XP beyond Silver and Gold content. Outside of quests, you can also earn XP by killing monsters, going through dungeons, finishing Crafting Writs, participating in the Alliance War, and completing repeatable quests. We're also looking at increasing the XP you receive from Veteran Dungeons, but that's still a work in progress.

Sallington · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the info, guys. We're looking into this now and will report back in a bit. I think we may have gotten our wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks! There are at least three threads floating around today on this XP for achievements issue so I think a lot of people would appreciate clarification.

Ok, we can confirm that some achievements will grant XP upon completion. This is intended, and we won't be removing it. Sorry for the confusion, guys!

As for the topic at-hand, a maximum of 70 Champion Points was a number we felt was fair for the conversion and with the launch of Update 6 around the corner, it will not be changed. That said, we understand there's some concern about earning XP beyond Silver and Gold content. Outside of quests, you can also earn XP by killing monsters, going through dungeons, finishing Crafting Writs, participating in the Alliance War, and completing repeatable quests. We're also looking at increasing the XP you receive from Veteran Dungeons, but that's still a work in progress.

Can you comment on the possibility of increasing XP gains from PvP in Cyrodil, not including the repeatable PvE quests.

EDIT: I know I'm not the only one that spends 95% of my time in cyrodil, and don't want to be heavily gimped compared to people that spend days on end grinding PvE mobs.