"Old" Ingredients still only sell for 10g.. even though new ingredients are 150g? Answered

ZRage

From my understanding you can craft all the food in the world with old ingredients right now so I don't see where is the problem ? Once 1.6 goes live old food gets converted to new versions so I don't get the drama.

Also you must be joking about potions, crafted pots give 3 bonuses, in crown store they will probably sell stuff for beginners / casulas / people who have limited amount of time to spend per week.

And just to be correct I even came on to PTS store to correct this pots from the store scale to VR5 and they arnt better than best pots you can craft trough alchemy so it's quire "ethical" design.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Touche, but watch em they will try something like that. So much for "scales to your level" so it doesn't scale past v5?

ZRage

well it's posted in the item desctiption in the store scales up to veteran rank 5

This pots seem to be comfort option for new player and that's all.

Garwulf

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

This would be all well and good if ZoS had actually created a viable economy. In fact there is really no economy at all. Sure ZoS could jack up prices as they have on Provisioning items but that still does not make an economy. Just a gold 'hole'.

HeroOfEvbof

I don't think the "old for 10g, new for 150g" is intended as a "gold hole". As I explained before, no one ever needs to buy the ingredients from a grocer. But keeping "old for 10g" won't rock the current economic model too badly.
For months, secondary ingredients usually went for 20g. Occasionally someone would sell at a bargain of 10g each. Guild cooks like myself have thus hoarded tons and tons of secondary ingredients, as well as piquant jazbay grapes/canis root/saaz hops. All those hoards will now turn into gold.
I don't have a problem with old for 10g model. It makes sense. But I was looking forward to actually using grocers for something other than helping a vr14 guildmate level up provisioning. Changing the value of fruits/veggies/additives to 150g makes no sense whatsoever.
Also from a RP point of view: how much of those ingredients do you think are in a bandit delve like Illesan Tower? The Red Rook Bandits need to empty their own crates and barrels and under-cut the grocers. Think of it, instead of every last bandit dying to a Streak Sorc, they could sell the Sorc all the goodies for 80g each. The Sorc gets his/her goodies and the bandits get 8,000g and get to live.

SickDuck

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Oh dear. Now how on earth did that happen again? First all got excited about foods and drink stacking, and now this?

1. How could it happen that no one noticed that 150g is quite a high amount and no way it is a proportional compensation for the spoiled ingredients, before made a stupid promise? (Anyone who thought getting that amount of money for the old ingredients could ever happen is more deluded than one who thought ZOS will track XP above max level for the CS) How could that promise ever be made in the first place?
2. But... it was never promised that old ingredients should sell on the new, higher price. ZOS could have kept its promise by compensating these on the current vendor price, which is anything up to 63 gold at the moment. Was that still too much?
3. Why converting to "old" items at all? What's the reason for these items to hang around? Why not converting them immediately to gold on first login? That way a cap could have been forced as well to avoid extremities.
4. Managing economy is important, but if this amount cannot be managed in the game than God help us! Especially now that 1.6 introduces a bunch of new gold sinks: CS reset, wayshrine cost (even that I consider that a bug fix rather than a nerf) and don't forget increased ingredient prices. The later is quite clever, as in the new system you need low level materials for end game food/drinks. Which is something that high level characters cannot find at the moment, at probably not many are stacked. So it's very likely people need to spend a decent sum of gold just to make vr5-10 food.
5. If money was such an issue, why couldn't just convert more items and leave much less stale? Where's the rule that 2 or more items could not be converted to the same new ingredient? Especially for items like pepper or imperial/emperor thingies which cannot really be found and have decent value on live. That way people could not complain about feeling scammed on losing expensive items. Pepper could have been converted to saltrice or similar rarity item. On the other hand, items like plump worms selling for 10g is a gift - unreasonable and no one complains about that.

There are so many way this situation could have been handled rather than this.

But most importantly, when the penny dropped at ZOS HQ, why couldn't anyone make a statement (apology)? Or at least put it in the patch notes? Not waiting for the community to pick it up and get pissed again? Who would thought that it gets unnoticed and unquestioned? That is very immature and unprofessional. Thought ZOS had the chance to improve communication by learning on past mistakes, it's such a pity to see another failure like this.

The saddest thing is that these regular communication glitches hurt the game more than all the bugs around.

Zershar_Vemod

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

Why the 180 on this decision?

Was it not said that ingredients would be sold for the same prices?

xaraan

ZRage wrote: »

That's a good change I think flood of gold is just bad and there is always too many people who would abuse it and there you guaranteed hiper inflation of gold.

This does not effect gold, they have no problem allowing a flood of gold through the justice system as you can easily make 10K in less than an hour by stealing without any real risk. The only thing it effects are long time players who have saved ingredients and bought ingredients - they are getting ripped off - to make it so new players or new provisioners can catch up easier.

SickDuck

xaraan wrote: »

This does not effect gold, they have no problem allowing a flood of gold through the justice system as you can easily make 10K in less than an hour by stealing without any real risk. The only thing it effects are long time players who have saved ingredients and bought ingredients - they are getting ripped off - to make it so new players or new provisioners can catch up easier.

Yes the original idea could have been abused, that's why it was a weird approach in the first place. On the other hand the people who make the most money on the conversion are probably already the ones who have good amount of wealth in the game. Also gold is easy to come by (except if you live in the Cyrodiil war-zone ) from lot of sources and pretty useless in general. You can earn more gold than you can spend.

Justice system can be a gold sink as well. It restricts access to items that are taken for granted at the moment. If you get caught red handed you'll need to pay. Didn't do much testing, but seemed to me that real value comes from pick-pocketing and burglary - both have some risk. And stolen item values are nerfed since the initial PTS patch, not to mention the daily cap on fences.

vovus69

I am ok with it - food will jump in price. I like it. Food in 1.5 was like a trash. Now it will cost more and more rare, so people will see the difference. And don't forget - Negate cancels the food and drink buffs in Cyrodiil. This means that they will buy more, not less. I would expect purple vet food at 300g+ ea or so. Will see. Purple motifs will jump to 100-200k I presume with this new justice thing. I would not be surprized to see 500k for Imperial or Daedric as it was in a past

Elder_III

It's not that hard to steal, I don't think purple motifs are going to cost 200k anytime soon (unless they skewed the drop rate drastically).

xaraan

raffai.tamasb16_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

This does not effect gold, they have no problem allowing a flood of gold through the justice system as you can easily make 10K in less than an hour by stealing without any real risk. The only thing it effects are long time players who have saved ingredients and bought ingredients - they are getting ripped off - to make it so new players or new provisioners can catch up easier.

Yes the original idea could have been abused, that's why it was a weird approach in the first place. On the other hand the people who make the most money on the conversion are probably already the ones who have good amount of wealth in the game. Also gold is easy to come by (except if you live in the Cyrodiil war-zone ) from lot of sources and pretty useless in general. You can earn more gold than you can spend.

Justice system can be a gold sink as well. It restricts access to items that are taken for granted at the moment. If you get caught red handed you'll need to pay. Didn't do much testing, but seemed to me that real value comes from pick-pocketing and burglary - both have some risk. And stolen item values are nerfed since the initial PTS patch, not to mention the daily cap on fences.

I tested justice on the pts. It's easy. Money may lose value because people can build it even easier now. Easy to burglarize places and little risk. Not too hard pick pocketing some, but easier to just kill and loot body.

Telling me it's ok to be ripped off because I have x amount of money is bs though. It should be an even exchange, period. They should lower the price back to what it was to allow for exchanges or they should have designed a better system. All those "old" ingredients could have easily been tagged to convert to like ingredients for 1.6. If you can craft so-and-so food now, then it should become the ingredient you need for the same level food in 1.6.

This isn't about a few people making extra gold. It's about constantly pulling players back from whatever progress they have so they aren't as far ahead of new players. They've done it half a dozen times on different things since launch.

Nazon_Katts

Yep, it's quite obvious their focus is on new and returning players and their projections probably show that any veteran player lost is replaced many fold. And they know they still have a game that most will play once and then drop it again. Longevity for long term players won't be on the radar any time soon, since they'll have to constantly acquire new players.

But how many will want to play a game, in which their progress is constantly reset? Even if they might not even reach that point, just hearing about the possibility of losing progression is a reason not to start at all.

Tankqull

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Now, "old" ingredients sell for 10g.. and new ingredients sell for 150g.
...
What are everyone's thoughts on this? @ZOS_GinaBruno was the "old" ingredient price just forgotten about when the price of new ones were raised? Or is this "working as intended"?

The (very) short answer is that this is intended, and was done for the overall long-term health of the economy.

sorry but that make me laugh how does a stock of unusable ingrediants effect the long time health of the economy? the innitial state of the economy ok, but longterm?
news headline: in anticipation of possible knock over of rice sacks GM increased its car prizes by 1500%. ...

Merlin13KAGL

elwhy wrote: »

I'm just confused as to why they're making some ingredients old at all. Why make pepper old? Along this same line, why turn garlic in 1.5 into flour in 1.6 when they're turning salt into garlic! Why not just keep garlic as garlic, and salt into flour? It's probably due to flour being commonly used in 1.6 or something, but it seems ridiculous on paper...especially for something they redesigned with the intent of simplifying the whole process. Oh well...it is what it is, and Zeni does whatever they want.

@elwhy , the video would be better, but it reminds me of this...

Economy wise, it's just a method to keep people from hording ingredients to conver to gold that they otherwise would not have collected.

The cross conversion simply makes it more difficult to know which ingredients to hoard. (I would not be surprised if they changed the conversion yet again.)