Seeing through hide/cloak/invis pot hackers...

Bouvin

Grim13 wrote: »

Some more food for thought:

2 days ago I was chased by an EP and killed... He managed to see me even though I had used an invis /speed pot AND cloak (multiple times).

However, I had been within detect pot range... so, I asked him after if he'd used a detect pot. He said no... so I asked him hell the hell he saw me!?

He told me that it was his "little secret". I pressed him for it during a brief conversation... but he refused to divulge it.

Make of that what you will.

(..and, NO, he didn't have magelight up).

I've noticed with Crushing Shock you can continuously knock NB out of stealth (I play NB as well).

I've had that happen to me with Biting Jabs too.

So.. some skills when getting spammed can stop you from staying in stealth or cloak. I understand that.

But I've also experienced the Zerg do a 180 and come kill me while stealthed.

Hacks? Maybe.. there's lots of hacks for ESO the bots were using.

Another explanation though is spies. That other "pug" standing a few meters away from you might be giving up your location. I do know some EP guilds run a lot of spies.. so that's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Bouvin

Thevorpal1 wrote: »

I've had a friend tell me if you get a tab target on someone and they enter stealth you still can see the box around them from the tab targeting.

Maybe you encountered something like this?

Just a shot in the dark lol.

I've noticed this too, but mostly with people going behind walls.

Although I do suspect it sometimes stays up on stealthers.

Brizz

In the past 2 days I've gone through 300 stealth detection potions in pvp and have found and killed TONS of players. I'm a nightblade, so my catalyst passive increases the stealth detection radius. You can currenlty also use these potions while riding your horse, so if there is ANY reason that I may suspect a stealther, I pop one and fly around to where I would hide if I was sneaking.

You would be surprised how easy it is to guess where someone would hide if they were close by. You may have gotten really bad luck... it happens. It doesn't automatically mean that they were "hacking" to come find you.

Ezareth

I've been accused of "hacking" and somehow seeing stealth in the past myself.

Most of the time I find people it is from sheer luck but I also find them by looking for them too.

It is possible he was running to the fight symbol on the map, didn't see anyone and decided to look for gankers in stealth. (I used to do this quite often).

Really unless you see someone doing this consistently and often it is usually safe to say they are not hacking.

Grim13

Brizz wrote: »

In the past 2 days I've gone through 300 stealth detection potions in pvp and have found and killed TONS of players. I'm a nightblade, so my catalyst passive increases the stealth detection radius. You can currenlty also use these potions while riding your horse, so if there is ANY reason that I may suspect a stealther, I pop one and fly around to where I would hide if I was sneaking.

You would be surprised how easy it is to guess where someone would hide if they were close by. You may have gotten really bad luck... it happens. It doesn't automatically mean that they were "hacking" to come find you.

1) I was well away from where I'd killed the EP.
2) I believe he was a Templar, not a NB.

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I've been accused of "hacking" and somehow seeing stealth in the past myself.

Most of the time I find people it is from sheer luck but I also find them by looking for them too.

It is possible he was running to the fight symbol on the map, didn't see anyone and decided to look for gankers in stealth. (I used to do this quite often).

Really unless you see someone doing this consistently and often it is usually safe to say they are not hacking.

3) I was roughly 70m away from the body when he arrived at it.
4) I stealthed before I left the body so the dead EP couldn't relay my position.
5) He made an abrupt turn and headed straight for me.
6) Once he started to head in my direction, I changed course and he still could obviously see me because he changed course when I did.

I've been a NB since beta and I am more than well aware of the issues with stealth and cloak, etc.,... However, I've only seen this type of behaviour half a handful of times before, in the many hundreds of hours I've played a NB in PvP, and there are only 2 things I think this could have been: an extremely rare bug... or a hack of some kind.

I've read all that you've written, and while I do understand your doubt,... I find it highly suspect that this occurred in the manner it had.

However, I will concede that it will be impossible to prove to you...

Yusuf

Grim13 wrote: »

Brizz wrote: »

In the past 2 days I've gone through 300 stealth detection potions in pvp and have found and killed TONS of players. I'm a nightblade, so my catalyst passive increases the stealth detection radius. You can currenlty also use these potions while riding your horse, so if there is ANY reason that I may suspect a stealther, I pop one and fly around to where I would hide if I was sneaking.

You would be surprised how easy it is to guess where someone would hide if they were close by. You may have gotten really bad luck... it happens. It doesn't automatically mean that they were "hacking" to come find you.

1) I was well away from where I'd killed the EP.
2) I believe he was a Templar, not a NB.

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I've been accused of "hacking" and somehow seeing stealth in the past myself.

Most of the time I find people it is from sheer luck but I also find them by looking for them too.

It is possible he was running to the fight symbol on the map, didn't see anyone and decided to look for gankers in stealth. (I used to do this quite often).

Really unless you see someone doing this consistently and often it is usually safe to say they are not hacking.

3) I was roughly 70m away from the body when he arrived at it.
4) I stealthed before I left the body so the dead EP couldn't relay my position.
5) He made an abrupt turn and headed straight for me.
6) Once he started to head in my direction, I changed course and he still could obviously see me because he changed course when I did.

I've been a NB since beta and I am more than well aware of the issues with stealth and cloak, etc.,... However, I've only seen this type of behaviour half a handful of times before, in the many hundreds of hours I've played a NB in PvP, and there are only 2 things I think this could have been: an extremely rare bug... or a hack of some kind.

I've read all that you've written, and while I do understand your doubt,... I find it highly suspect that this occurred in the manner it had.

However, I will concede that it will be impossible to prove to you...

Have you reported the player in question and/or maybe just whispered him and asked him whether he could see you? -.-

Roechacca

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Panda244

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

Kuro1n

I've had issues with what OP is speaking of as well. Might have been a hack, might have been *** servers or something like that but you know neither of the two is impossible.

I am saying this as someone who has made money writing cheats for mmos before (private servers mostly), the protection in most games are just horrible, seeing invisible players and such are very possible if the cloaking *** happens client side. With that said I actually believe it is because cyrodiil is so freaking laggy and nothing else. It is sad though to use your *** class skill which costs 1/3rd of my mana as a stamina build and holds for less than 3 seconds just to get *** charged through it by someone quite a bit away time after time. But since ZOS don't give a *** about those broken abilities it will never change, all there is about it is to accept it is broken and move on.

Roechacca

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

People post videos of them in use . I'm starting to think you are naive . I use to belong to Nwo in swg . Members used 3rd party programs all the time . If you think ESO has made an impenetrable code you need to visit the torrents more often . ESO already had to address bot programs since pre launch . Every game has people that exploit . It's just a fact of gaming . Is this your first MMO or something ?

Roechacca

Kuro1n wrote: »

I've had issues with what OP is speaking of as well. Might have been a hack, might have been *** servers or something like that but you know neither of the two is impossible.

I am saying this as someone who has made money writing cheats for mmos before (private servers mostly), the protection in most games are just horrible, seeing invisible players and such are very possible if the cloaking *** happens client side. With that said I actually believe it is because cyrodiil is so freaking laggy and nothing else. It is sad though to use your *** class skill which costs 1/3rd of my mana as a stamina build and holds for less than 3 seconds just to get *** charged through it by someone quite a bit away time after time. But since ZOS don't give a *** about those broken abilities it will never change, all there is about it is to accept it is broken and move on.

This is probably a case of bad servers and lag . However it's good that you having experience don't rule out the possibility of 3rd party programs running in the background . There use to be a speed hack and a stamina health hack here the Devs had stop right after April so we know it happens . An because it can happen it's good to run Fraps from time to time so that video evidence can be gathered . I run it as a security blanket and just delete files nightly . When my old guild mates would hack from another MMO the first thing they would do was laugh at anyone that complained and say the were crazy you can't hack the game . Of course 2 members got accounts permanent banned after . So I've seen it first hand and know the mentality is denial . Write reports on suspicious bugs and gather evidence with video and time stamp everything . That's the best advice I can give .

Panda244

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

People post videos of them in use . I'm starting to think you are naive . I use to belong to Nwo in swg . Members used 3rd party programs all the time . If you think ESO has made an impenetrable code you need to visit the torrents more often . ESO already had to address bot programs since pre launch . Every game has people that exploit . It's just a fact of gaming . Is this your first MMO or something ?

Third Party programs and hacks are completely different, third party programs give you advantages, such as Bots, or speed hacks, item duplication.

Hacks is legitimately hacking into the ESO code and changing it to benefit your own use.

At least that's what it is from my perspective.

Roechacca

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

People post videos of them in use . I'm starting to think you are naive . I use to belong to Nwo in swg . Members used 3rd party programs all the time . If you think ESO has made an impenetrable code you need to visit the torrents more often . ESO already had to address bot programs since pre launch . Every game has people that exploit . It's just a fact of gaming . Is this your first MMO or something ?

Third Party programs and hacks are completely different, third party programs give you advantages, such as Bots, or speed hacks, item duplication.

Hacks is legitimately hacking into the ESO code and changing it to benefit your own use.

At least that's what it is from my perspective.

Then you're just debating word semantics . The fact is whether you call it jogging the system , exploiting , hacking , cheating whatever , we all know there's ways around the system and it happens .

Cody

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

People post videos of them in use . I'm starting to think you are naive . I use to belong to Nwo in swg . Members used 3rd party programs all the time . If you think ESO has made an impenetrable code you need to visit the torrents more often . ESO already had to address bot programs since pre launch . Every game has people that exploit . It's just a fact of gaming . Is this your first MMO or something ?

Third Party programs and hacks are completely different, third party programs give you advantages, such as Bots, or speed hacks, item duplication.

Hacks is legitimately hacking into the ESO code and changing it to benefit your own use.

At least that's what it is from my perspective.

Then you're just debating word semantics . The fact is whether you call it jogging the system , exploiting , hacking , cheating whatever , we all know there's ways around the system and it happens .

I blame Columba.

Panda244

Cody wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

There are several new hacks listed and available just with a Google search . Several site are already offering new hacks for 1.6 so I don't know why it's so hard to imagine or be so naive to believe hacks aren't happening .

Since the new "lol" is insightful you get one, anyone with half a brain knows there are sites like that for every MMO ever, and every site like that, is just Trojan waiting to happen. Stop trying to break peoples' computers @roechacca I thought better of you!

People post videos of them in use . I'm starting to think you are naive . I use to belong to Nwo in swg . Members used 3rd party programs all the time . If you think ESO has made an impenetrable code you need to visit the torrents more often . ESO already had to address bot programs since pre launch . Every game has people that exploit . It's just a fact of gaming . Is this your first MMO or something ?

Third Party programs and hacks are completely different, third party programs give you advantages, such as Bots, or speed hacks, item duplication.

Hacks is legitimately hacking into the ESO code and changing it to benefit your own use.

At least that's what it is from my perspective.

Then you're just debating word semantics . The fact is whether you call it jogging the system , exploiting , hacking , cheating whatever , we all know there's ways around the system and it happens .

I blame Columba.

Disclaimer: The following video can be seen as rather offensive but is not meant to be, please enjoy
I blame Obama. NSFW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpD2mxdFisQ

TheBucket

Brizz wrote: »

In the past 2 days I've gone through 300 stealth detection potions in pvp and have found and killed TONS of players. I'm a nightblade, so my catalyst passive increases the stealth detection radius. You can currenlty also use these potions while riding your horse, so if there is ANY reason that I may suspect a stealther, I pop one and fly around to where I would hide if I was sneaking.

You would be surprised how easy it is to guess where someone would hide if they were close by. You may have gotten really bad luck... it happens. It doesn't automatically mean that they were "hacking" to come find you.

Same.

Ezareth

Grim13 wrote: »

Brizz wrote: »

In the past 2 days I've gone through 300 stealth detection potions in pvp and have found and killed TONS of players. I'm a nightblade, so my catalyst passive increases the stealth detection radius. You can currenlty also use these potions while riding your horse, so if there is ANY reason that I may suspect a stealther, I pop one and fly around to where I would hide if I was sneaking.

You would be surprised how easy it is to guess where someone would hide if they were close by. You may have gotten really bad luck... it happens. It doesn't automatically mean that they were "hacking" to come find you.

1) I was well away from where I'd killed the EP.
2) I believe he was a Templar, not a NB.

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I've been accused of "hacking" and somehow seeing stealth in the past myself.

Most of the time I find people it is from sheer luck but I also find them by looking for them too.

It is possible he was running to the fight symbol on the map, didn't see anyone and decided to look for gankers in stealth. (I used to do this quite often).

Really unless you see someone doing this consistently and often it is usually safe to say they are not hacking.

3) I was roughly 70m away from the body when he arrived at it.
4) I stealthed before I left the body so the dead EP couldn't relay my position.
5) He made an abrupt turn and headed straight for me.
6) Once he started to head in my direction, I changed course and he still could obviously see me because he changed course when I did.

I've been a NB since beta and I am more than well aware of the issues with stealth and cloak, etc.,... However, I've only seen this type of behaviour half a handful of times before, in the many hundreds of hours I've played a NB in PvP, and there are only 2 things I think this could have been: an extremely rare bug... or a hack of some kind.

I've read all that you've written, and while I do understand your doubt,... I find it highly suspect that this occurred in the manner it had.

However, I will concede that it will be impossible to prove to you...

When I knew someone was using a hack/exploit/cheat whatever we want to term it I made video evidence of them doing it and then appealed to the community to explain what was happening.

This is somewhat difficult to do with the N&S policy but you can tell people to "check your youtube" channel for videos or something thus keeping the "naming" directly out of the forums.

Still, perhaps there is a bug or something that exists that allows this but unless you spend time finding this person and running pre-planned tests to show they are using an exploit it will always appear to others that you were mistaken.

LegacyDM

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

Wow. You don't play many mmos do you. You never heard of radar hacks?!?! What do u think killed AoC, aion, war, and is killing ffxiv. Do yourself a favor and use Google before making claims that are false.

LegacyDM

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

Wow. You don't play many mmos do you. You never heard of radar hacks?!?! What do u think killed AoC, aion, war, and is killing ffxiv. Do yourself a favor and use Google before making claims that are false.

I just did a quick google search and was taken to forums where people are asking if they would get banned for using teleport and speed hacks on eso. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a radar back for eso too.

Vizier

It's always difficult to put a finger on what is going on with stealth and cloak. From my perspective cloak is broken. It doesn't work as it should much of the time.

I play daily and I've seen stealth and cloak effectiveness change. Sometimes it changes for the worse where it breaks all the time and sometimes it goes for stretches without fail.

The problem with figuring out whether or not folks hax is that there is a great deal of "plausible deniability" around the issue. Between detection pots, mage light, lag, strange stealth and cloak mechanics, tab targeting BS, dots, and especially "negative effects." there's alot of ways cloak is shattered.

that said there are just some folks and groups that just are never to rarely phased by cloak and never seem to have a pot on cooldown when they need a "detection pot." In general I don't believe many are hacking the game but I have seen some inexplicable and or improbable things that actually seem to be picking up over the last month, like dudes taking no damage from 15 to 20 people attacking them, ungodly long term speeds, seemingly endless supplies of stamina for dodging sprinting etc, uncanny sleuthing skills for finding folks in stealth and ability hit actively cloaking persons with ranged attacks both spell and bow.

Is it because cloak is broken? Maybe. Likely. At least most of the time. And until cloak is solidly fixed we really will just never know because you won't be able to pin it down.

At the end of the day, it is still an indispensable skill for my NB and when used in conjunction with vamp speed, concealed weapon, rapid maneuvers, purge, bow roll-dodge speed bonus, it is a very effective skill that allows for me to escape most circumstances I might find myself in.

Rune_Relic

I agree with the OP....I have also had this on a few occasion where I have escaped from the danger area into the middle of no where with no one around and someone makes a b-line for me out of no where. [hidden from sight between rocks too]

Besides if you are in detection area or actually "DETECTED" .....your eye should be wide open with detected permanently engaged with stealth/invisibility or not.
OR is the idea simply to make you believe you are stealthed so you can be killed for actually believing what the UI tells you ?

Rune_Relic

Turelus wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

So someone could of possibly used the potion, maybe the person he was attacking, which then broke stealth, and said Sorcerer saw him, chased him, killed him, and he came to the forums to tell us about a mishap adventure in Cyrodiil.

No no, my explanation was terrible there. On PTS I had a friend playing EP and I made AD so we could test some of the new skills. While he was hidden and no chance of me seeing him, he used a weapon crit potion, I saw him for about 1 second while that potion was activated.
Now I don't know if this is a PTS related issue with the changes, a fluke occurrence (we didn't test that any more) or rather that without knowing right now drinking any potions even on live breaks your own stealth/sneak.

That would explain a lot
Perhaps we need to hit every skill combo / potion/ food possible and see if we can be seen through a bug.

The_Death_Princess

OP noticed you are a vamp. Be aware that mist form leaves a very faint trail of your movement. I think it does it even when you may be stealthed in that form. I am not a vamp so not sure about that. I do have a very strong graphic setup, so I love chasing down vamps in mist form...... (the effect is so faint it probably doesnt show non ultra's)

Grim13

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

OP noticed you are a vamp. Be aware that mist form leaves a very faint trail of your movement. I think it does it even when you may be stealthed in that form. I am not a vamp so not sure about that. I do have a very strong graphic setup, so I love chasing down vamps in mist form...... (the effect is so faint it probably doesnt show non ultra's)

Thanks, but I don't use mistform.

Faugaun

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

OP noticed you are a vamp. Be aware that mist form leaves a very faint trail of your movement. I think it does it even when you may be stealthed in that form. I am not a vamp so not sure about that. I do have a very strong graphic setup, so I love chasing down vamps in mist form...... (the effect is so faint it probably doesnt show non ultra's)

That would be a crying shame talk about p2w...must have computer with ultra to be competitive....well at least I got ultra!

Kuro1n

Actually I play on mixed settings in PVP, sometimes ultra and sometimes not (depending on if streaming etc). And no matter the setting you can see the mist effects.

yodased

it is quite possible using easily gotten software to highlight every enemy within your eyeline, stealthed or not.

So, if you see someone doing this repeatedly, or there is no explanation as to how they saw you in complete stealth, that's probably the answer.

Making forum posts about it will not help you though, it actually will harm you if you try to call them out here.

Report them in game and let the GM's do their job.

madangrypally

There have been addons in the past the revealed stealthed players regardless of range. This was removed awhile ago but whose to say a new way hasn't been found.

Its also possible that:
1: Enemy did not see you and was just headed towards where a fight just happened and got lucky. Though I assume you did not run in a straight line and made some sharp turns to throw off pursuers. (most do not and its easy to find them even if they are stealthed).

2: Stealth/invised bugged out. This sometimes happens and even if player thinks he is stealthed/invised he is not due to some weird bug. This actually happens more then players realize.

I can pretty much duplicate number 2 unless they have fixed this bug since I last tested it (been a few months).