Seeing through hide/cloak/invis pot hackers...

Grim13

I've run across a couple within the last month.

Tonight, I ganked a red and went to reposition... there was a red incoming but he was well over 50m away... I used a speed potion anyway... I get to well over 70m away, when he makes a 90 degree turn toward me (who is hidden, using cloak AND am still not out of the invis on the potion yet)... he streaks me down and then barely manages to kill me until another EP shows up.

Xexpo

maybe he just guessed which way you were going?

BEZDNA

I bet you earned it, don't like gankers at all
And your argumants are wery week, there are a lot of facors which coud affect you detection

Nivzruo_ESO

There is truth to this.. A few times in the past week I've been shield charged while the word 'hidden' is up. All the same person but I won't go into the name & shame stuff.

Panda244

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Grim13

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

ThatHappyCat

I feel that a lot of complaints about invisibility not working properly is due to people using Detection pots. There's no indicator if someone has a Detection pot active and from what I can tell its use is pretty common (since you can make Detection-Spell Power-Magicka Restore pots).

smtdbplus

Try to fight reds during monday - friday 1100am to 0200+pm EST.

They all share the same characteristics
1) Can see you 150m away event when you are hidden
2) With 5-6 of them, the server is lag like hell (i am not sure server lag or some other things.)
3) They can do 3-4 hits within 0.5 seconds
4) When you see them, you cannot swap weapon, and each cast takes about 2+seconds
5) They all bunny hopping
6) 99% are DKs

Normally, I will just logoff after seeing them. No way to fight these kind of "advance technologies"

From my observations, the above NEVER happen when fighting blues.

And these red groups show up mostly during the said time. And seldom on Sat or Sun, probably their parents bring them out.

Grim13

BEZDNA wrote: »

I bet you earned it, don't like gankers at all
And your argumants are wery week, there are a lot of facors which coud affect you detection

No. Not really.

1) 50-70m away -> well out of detect pot range.
2) I was hidden, using dark cloak, and had just used a speed/invis pot.
3) I turned at about 70m, before the invis from the pot wore off, and watched him turn toward me and start streaking at me.

None of those are weak arguments.

Now, admittedly, there is the slight possibility that stealth (as we're all aware) is just completely ***... but, BUT... there has been rumours of a stealth hack going around... AND this has only ever happened to me twice. Once tonight, and once about 4 weeks ago: where a DC was riding by, well over 50m away, and he turned 120 degrees and made a beeline for me even though I was behind a tree, hidden. lol

I use a lot of detect pots... and they have their limits. There's no way he could have seen me with a detect pot from how far away from me he was.

Grim13

Some more food for thought:

2 days ago I was chased by an EP and killed... He managed to see me even though I had used an invis /speed pot AND cloak (multiple times).

However, I had been within detect pot range... so, I asked him after if he'd used a detect pot. He said no... so I asked him hell the hell he saw me!?

He told me that it was his "little secret". I pressed him for it during a brief conversation... but he refused to divulge it.

Make of that what you will.

(..and, NO, he didn't have magelight up).

Panda244

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

Yusuf

Sometimes you don't see enemie's magelights, performance-wise.
Also, maybe the player just decided to go into that direction and you were in his way by chance?

Moderator note: Edited per our rules on rude and insulting comments.

Grim13

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

That's wrong actually. There was an Addon that allowed people to see stealthed players, early on. Who's to say something similar hasn't made a return.

Detect pots do not have a detection range of 50-60m! *roflmao* Nor, are there racial passives that increase detection range!

Not only that, I'm a Bosmer which does have a racial passive to DECREASE the range I can be detected at.

Grim13

Yusuf wrote: »

Sometimes you don't see enemie's magelights, performance-wise.
Also, maybe the player just decided to go into that direction and you were in his way by chance?

Uhuh, lol.

I never use the term hacker lightly. I'm more than aware of how borked stealth is in this game... this was unique.

Moderator note: Edited quote to match moderated version.

Panda244

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

That's wrong actually. There was an Addon that allowed people to see stealthed players, early on. Who's to say something similar hasn't made a return.

Detect pots do not have a detection range of 50-60m! *roflmao* Nor, are there racial passives that increase detection range!

Not only that, I'm a Bosmer which does have a racial passive to DECREASE the range I can be detected at.

The bold part I call BS on, I'm sorry but Addons effect your UI, not your game...

As for the racial part, that was my bad and you're correct. There is however a set, or two, that increase range by 10-15m I think. So that combined with a detection potion and you're easily seeing 40-50m away, so he may have JUST glimpsed you and then continued to bolt escape in that direction, either way, you got killed. Don't come and QQ on the forums about it, if there was a video I'd be more inclined to believe you but right now I just see an angry poster.

Turelus

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

Panda244

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

So someone could of possibly used the potion, maybe the person he was attacking, which then broke stealth, and said Sorcerer saw him, chased him, killed him, and he came to the forums to tell us about a mishap adventure in Cyrodiil.

Turelus

Panda244 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

So someone could of possibly used the potion, maybe the person he was attacking, which then broke stealth, and said Sorcerer saw him, chased him, killed him, and he came to the forums to tell us about a mishap adventure in Cyrodiil.

No no, my explanation was terrible there. On PTS I had a friend playing EP and I made AD so we could test some of the new skills. While he was hidden and no chance of me seeing him, he used a weapon crit potion, I saw him for about 1 second while that potion was activated.
Now I don't know if this is a PTS related issue with the changes, a fluke occurrence (we didn't test that any more) or rather that without knowing right now drinking any potions even on live breaks your own stealth/sneak.

Grim13

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

That's wrong actually. There was an Addon that allowed people to see stealthed players, early on. Who's to say something similar hasn't made a return.

Detect pots do not have a detection range of 50-60m! *roflmao* Nor, are there racial passives that increase detection range!

Not only that, I'm a Bosmer which does have a racial passive to DECREASE the range I can be detected at.

The bold part I call BS on, I'm sorry but Addons effect your UI, not your game...

As for the racial part, that was my bad and you're correct. There is however a set, or two, that increase range by 10-15m I think. So that combined with a detection potion and you're easily seeing 40-50m away, so he may have JUST glimpsed you and then continued to bolt escape in that direction, either way, you got killed. Don't come and QQ on the forums about it, if there was a video I'd be more inclined to believe you but right now I just see an angry poster.

Sure, but because the addon displayed info on a player regardless of whether the player was visible to the addon's user, or not, they could be seen while in stealth.

Look it up.

I don't believe there are any armor sets that increase detection range by 10-15m. There's Nightshade which increases detection radius by 2m... and Sentry that increases detection range by 20%... which probably still isn't 10-15m.

Also, he was wearing light armor and both those sets are medium.

---

Anyways, yes... I suppose I was QQ'ing. And, although I stand by my hacker claim, I shouldn't have posted his name... however, the new format won't allow me to edit my OP.

Peace.

Panda244

Turelus wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

So someone could of possibly used the potion, maybe the person he was attacking, which then broke stealth, and said Sorcerer saw him, chased him, killed him, and he came to the forums to tell us about a mishap adventure in Cyrodiil.

No no, my explanation was terrible there. On PTS I had a friend playing EP and I made AD so we could test some of the new skills. While he was hidden and no chance of me seeing him, he used a weapon crit potion, I saw him for about 1 second while that potion was activated.
Now I don't know if this is a PTS related issue with the changes, a fluke occurrence (we didn't test that any more) or rather that without knowing right now drinking any potions even on live breaks your own stealth/sneak.

Well herp a derpa.

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

He used a detection potion, it reveals any and all stealth/invisibility, doesn't matter if you used a invisibility potion, cast cloak, were sneaked, detect potions negate all of that. As they rightfully should, don't gank if the ganking has friends around, simple as that.

As for being a hacker, I doubt it... I've shield charged somebody who used Dark Cloak before, because I could still see them, does that mean I'm hacking? No, just means stealth is inherently broken.

Did you miss the 70m away part?

I was well outside of the detect pots range.

Also, did you even read what I wrote!?

He was the only one on the horizon... after he caught up to me, and we were fighting, another EP showed up after about a 45 seconds..

At this point you're just QQing, you can't hack an MMO to unveil sneaked players man... He used a detection potion which has a range of about 50-60m, and he could have racial passives that add another 10m, meaning he can see you pretty far away. Or he got lucky, or the game glitched and showed you as stealthed when you weren't.... But naming and shaming because a Sorcerer happened to streak your direction and kill you is wrong.

That's wrong actually. There was an Addon that allowed people to see stealthed players, early on. Who's to say something similar hasn't made a return.

Detect pots do not have a detection range of 50-60m! *roflmao* Nor, are there racial passives that increase detection range!

Not only that, I'm a Bosmer which does have a racial passive to DECREASE the range I can be detected at.

The bold part I call BS on, I'm sorry but Addons effect your UI, not your game...

As for the racial part, that was my bad and you're correct. There is however a set, or two, that increase range by 10-15m I think. So that combined with a detection potion and you're easily seeing 40-50m away, so he may have JUST glimpsed you and then continued to bolt escape in that direction, either way, you got killed. Don't come and QQ on the forums about it, if there was a video I'd be more inclined to believe you but right now I just see an angry poster.

Sure, but because the addon displayed info on a player regardless of whether the player was visible to the addon's user, or not, they could be seen while in stealth.

Look it up.

I don't believe there are any armor sets that increase detection range by 10-15m. There's Nightshade which increases detection radius by 2m... and Sentry that increases detection range by 20%... which probably still isn't 10-15m.

Also, he was wearing light armor and both those sets are medium.

---

Anyways, yes... I suppose I was QQ'ing. And, although I stand by my hacker claim, I shouldn't have posted his name... however, the new format won't allow me to edit my OP.

Peace.

nah you can edit OP, it's way up at the top next to the title of the post, in the worst possible spot imaginable, took me some time to find it too. I don't blame you for QQing, I get mad in PvP too, but I take my anger out by hunting them down and killing them. I like to think of myself as a vengeful little bounty hunter when I'm drunk and angry, I'll get killed eventually, and then as I come across people from that faction that I kill or see, I'll ask if they've seen the person that killed me, and I'll eventually find them, kill them, and teabag them repeatedly. Such satisfaction is hard to come by...

Turelus

Grim13 wrote: »

Look it up.

I don't believe there are any armor sets that increase detection range by 10-15m. There's Nightshade which increases detection radius by 2m... and Sentry that increases detection range by 20%... which probably still isn't 10-15m.

Also, he was wearing light armor and both those sets are medium.

Just a note, Nightshade decreases detection radius by 2m, that's why it's one which has been noticed for use in PVE thefts in 1.6

Thevorpal1

I've had a friend tell me if you get a tab target on someone and they enter stealth you still can see the box around them from the tab targeting.

Maybe you encountered something like this?

Just a shot in the dark lol.

Islyn

Hackers? LOL

Islyn

Thevorpal1 wrote: »

I've had a friend tell me if you get a tab target on someone and they enter stealth you still can see the box around them from the tab targeting.

Maybe you encountered something like this?

Just a shot in the dark lol.

I see what you did there....

And I like it!

CitraBenzoet_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

This is not just on PTS. I know that the weapon crit pots take you out of stealth on Live.

C3N50R3D

CitraBenzoet_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Firstly OP be aware that naming and shaming is against the community rules. You might want to take that name out of your post.

Also with some testing on PTS this last week I was able to notice that using potions broke stealth for the friend I was testing with, which is interesting because AFAIK they don't do that.

This is not just on PTS. I know that the weapon crit pots take you out of stealth on Live.

There are a few abilities that take you out of stealth for a second. I am not sure if this is intended or not.

cozmon3c_ESO

as a sorc here is what i do if i see a stealther, i will streak to where i saw them at, then go to the nearest tree, rock , or anything i think people think they can hide behind. probably about 15% of the time i find the stealther. it is safer to stay in the open field. its probably some unconscious thing people do in this game to try and find cover because, hey you would hide behind something in real life. no detect pots needed.

other times im just streaking along and oh hey i just streaked over a stealthed guy on accident, score.

also im a pretty decent guesser at where you are if you are sort of close to me. and curse kicks ass against stealthers who dont time the explosion going off and imediately going cloak again. good stealthers will close that window for another curse to be placed on them.

Cody

I've had similar experiences; but have chalked them up either due to my enemies using detect pots, or due to this broken stealth system.

I doubt they were hacking(even if they were, ZOS would not do a thing about it given their record on these matters:()

Detect pots have a duration i believe; if I am right (and I may be wrong as i don't use detect pots, so please call me out if I am) then if the player moved fast enough across that 70m gap, they COULD, if I am right, potentially still see you.

also, if the server is lagging, then you could actually be unstealthed; when you seem to be stealth-ed on your screen. I've had that happen before(and is one of the reasons i do not play on thornblade, freaking lag:/)

Panda244

Cody wrote: »

I've had similar experiences; but have chalked them up either due to my enemies using detect pots, or due to this broken stealth system.

I doubt they were hacking(even if they were, ZOS would not do a thing about it given their record on these matters:()

Detect pots have a duration i believe; if I am right (and I may be wrong as i don't use detect pots, so please call me out if I am) then if the player moved fast enough across that 70m gap, they COULD, if I am right, potentially still see you.

also, if the server is lagging, then you could actually be unstealthed; when you seem to be stealth-ed on your screen. I've had that happen before(and is one of the reasons i do not play on thornblade, freaking lag:/)

There are also people like me, that have played NBs, and have ganked on NBs.... And know Cyrodiil like the back of their hand, so if a ganker gets away from me 50/50 chance I'll walk in the right direction that he limped off too, and he'll attempt to gank me again, and I'll kill him... I don't think I've been ganked properly since 1.4, not counting the moments where I'm drinking a beer, or soda... That happens on a nightly basis.

Xsorus

Or....now bare with me....it could be...That he saw the red cloud of smoke that Dark Cloak does every time you used it....him being a sorc of course allowed him to teleport over to the spot very quickly, pop a reveal pot and then gank ya.

Panda244

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Or....now bare with me....it could be...That he saw the red cloud of smoke that Dark Cloak does every time you used it....him being a sorc of course allowed him to teleport over to the spot very quickly, pop a reveal pot and then gank ya.

Aye, I don't think Nightblades realize this, if you're sneaking away and there's one, two, or three seconds left on Dark Cloak, and you reuse it, they can still see the red mist from the ability going off, regardless of whether or sneaked or not. Same goes for Sorcerers and that Daedric Portal when they cast a pet. Think Dragonknights and Volatile Armor do it too, you don't see the player but the spikes getting shot out in every direction you do see.