Bring back Crit % on gear instead of using some garbage number

s7732425ub17_ESO

Come on now. This is UI design 101. Crit rating means nothing to us players. We do not know the internals of your code. All outward facing crit values need to be %. If this new crit rating change goes live, it's going to be a major headache for new players (and everyone else, too). This means two things: really bad game reviews and unnecessary support calls.

Here's a test- can anyone answer the following questions without a calculator and without rummaging through the forums for the forumla?
- As a level 46, how much crit % does 1160 crit rating give you?
- As a level 24, how much crit % does 510 crit rating give you?
- As a VR7, how much crit % does 700 crit rating give you?

This is stupid. The gear needs to say "Gives 3.2% spell critical."

olsborg

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Tamanous

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

Mix

Tamanous wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

I did some math for a v14 player and unfortunately the amount of spell critical rating to gain 1% spell critical was not consistent! See the thread below for the details.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152584/spell-crit-vs-spell-crit-rating#latest

david.haypreub18_ESO

I totally agree with OP. This game really makes it hard to figure out what is going on behind the scenes with the game's numbers. There needs to be more clarity in skill descriptions, not less.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Tamanous wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

This really makes no sense at all.

MissBizz

Oh man.

I already was feeling overwhelmed by all the stat number increase changes.

Please give us % back.

Yusuf

Agree. These values are neither transparent nor "easy to understand", which is the opposite of what you were intending to achieve by the changes in the first place.

Also, the values still aren't as good as they were before so i guess they maybe tried to fool us with these numbers or something? xD

C'mon either make it 4% FLAT on every item or just give us an increase in damage or stats.

DDuke

No. Simply make it show the critical strike % when you hover over it, or next to the rating.

In fact, do the same with Armour / Spell Resistance values (funny how no one finds an issue with these).


What this critical rating allows, is further control over what kind of gear you get. It is there so that the bonus which granted you 2% crit at lvl 40, doesn't give you 2% crit at lvl 50, and when better gear gets released at max level, it is easier to scale up, or scale the old gear down (so people don't eventually have like 100% crit chance with Tier 20 gear).

MissBizz

DDuke wrote: »

No. Simply make it show the critical strike % when you hover over it, or next to the rating.

In fact, do the same with Armour / Spell Resistance values (funny how no one finds an issue with these).


What this critical rating allows, is further control over what kind of gear you get.

E.g. once better gear gets released, it can have different value than the old one (instead of being 4%, 4%, 4%, 4%, 4% every.single.time).

I don't mind resistances not being a %, it actually makes more sense to me that way.

Although I do enjoy the idea of it showing % with a hover (even if it states the % is rounded and therefore will not be exact).

McDoogs

Tamanous wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

As a software engineer myself, I'm 100% comfortable using decimals, fractions, or any other rudimentary mathematics when needed.

gclifton58ub17_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

2099 = 10% based on magelight ability.
Description says it adds 2099 to spell critical rating at level VR 14.
You start with a 10% rating for your base. When you cast Magelight, it goes up to 20%.

A little algebra would tell you that you now have 4198 spell critical rating. It would also tell you that 100% is 20,990 since:

10 x 10% = 100%
10 x 2099 = 20,990

1% = 209.9 Spell Crit Rating

More maths:

664 spell crit rating = 3.2%
3.2% x X = 664
X = 664 / 3.2% = 664 / .032 = 20,750

1328 spell crit rating = 6.4% = 20,750

2099 + 1328 = 3427 = 16.3% = 21,024

The discrepancies are most likely coming from the percentages. I would think 100% crit is actually 21,000 spell crit rating. In other words, 2099 is almost 10% but the display rounds it up to 10% since 9.999999% would take too much room. 2099 is a more exact figure.

Valrien

I'm fairly sure the formula for calculating spell crit is (numerical value)/200

So 2099 = 10.495%, or 10% if you feel like rounding. Most bonuses that offer 2099 now are ones that offered 10%, so the values aren't THAT much less. As stated before, the new numerical non-percentage value is more scale-able, so it can increase as your gear levels much like the other set bonuses

Celless

I think I understand the rating adjustment from a game mechanics and gear upgrade incentive perspective. It would be nice to have that extra transparency, perhaps in parentheses, that indicate how much critical value the rating is giving you at a specific level.

e.g. VR14, Major Prophecy 2099 (10%) or Minor Prophecy 630 (3%).

re: the odd spell crit math, from what I've observed, the game does not show the hundredth and rounds to the nearest tenth. I'm using 209.9 = 1% critical at VR14.

pmn100b16_ESO

Why has wrath of the Imperium 3 piece set gone from 10% crit (2099) down to about 640 crit? Thats a massive nerf compared to the armour sets.

gclifton58ub17_ESO

Valrien wrote: »

I'm fairly sure the formula for calculating spell crit is (numerical value)/200

So 2099 = 10.495%, or 10% if you feel like rounding. Most bonuses that offer 2099 now are ones that offered 10%, so the values aren't THAT much less. As stated before, the new numerical non-percentage value is more scale-able, so it can increase as your gear levels much like the other set bonuses

A more accurate formula would be (numerical value)/210 since 1% = 209.9.
Hence 2099/210 = 9.99% or 10%.

Warraxx

why is 100% crit = to 20999 or 21000

it would make it simpler to use 20000 as the basis for 100% crit chance...

gclifton58ub17_ESO

Warraxx wrote: »

why is 100% crit = to 20999 or 21000

it would make it simpler to use 20000 as the basis for 100% crit chance...

They probably want you to have about 1% chance to not crit even if you max out your Crit Rating.
In other words, if it were possible to get 20,990 crit rating, and the max Crit rating is 21,000, your actual crit rating would still only be 99.9523809%. There would still be a small chance that you would not crit. You would, however still crit just about 100% of the time.

Valen_Byte

@OP I agree completely.

(I would have just clicked "agree" but I wouldn't want anyone think it meant something that I didn't intend)

SoulScream

I agree let it show percent. I would also like more items on the character sheet.

Xeniph

I think they got it bass-ackwards.

When there were soft-caps, in theory showing crit rating would make sense if there were diminishing returns, soft or hard cap, but I am pretty sure there wasn't. Which would possibly give you the feel of a bit more control.

As there are no more caps (Except Mitigation) there is no reason to feel the need to micro manage stats like that. Also, players want to see hard numbers on things like gear/skills/passives.

Show only Crit % please

Just my thoughts.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

the more direct the better, we should not need to do testing to figure out basic mechanics that are stated in a tooltip. crazy right.

DDuke

Xeniph wrote: »

I think they got it bass-ackwards.

When there were soft-caps, in theory showing crit rating would make sense if there were diminishing returns, soft or hard cap, but I am pretty sure there wasn't. Which would possibly give you the feel of a bit more control.

As there are no more caps (Except Mitigation) there is no reason to feel the need to micro manage stats like that. Also, players want to see hard numbers on things like gear/skills/passives.

Show only Crit % please

Just my thoughts.

I explained above on my reply why most MMOs use the "Critical Rating", instead of just %.

You can't have X % on gear suddenly turn into Y % as you level up, and you can't keep adding better gear % wise, since you'll eventually run into problems such as having 100% (or more) crit.

I hope this makes sense


That said, it'd be great if you could see how much crit % the rating on the gear currently gives, by hovering over it.

Locke_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

You can't have X % on gear suddenly turn into Y % as you level up, and you can't keep adding better gear % wise, since you'll eventually run into problems such as having 100% (or more) crit.

Not sure I get what you're saying here. Clearly a level 1 piece with 3% crit is not going to be as good as a level 50 piece with 3% crit because there will be differences in the armour factor, amount of enchantment possibility etc but the 3% crit stat itself is still going to be useful to both levels of player. You don't need to keep inflating the % of critical chance to make it an important statistic.

Wylander

It's is guess only for optical reasons.
2099 looks much more Crit then 10%.
But in the end it's still the same.

but i vote anyway for just simply normal % numbers. I don't care much about a x,xxx% number where i have to do the math for all stats threw my character.

So in by the way what dose mean 10000 Armor right now?
Or 10000 Spell Resisitance?

ZOS is it possible that you extend the tooltip by this way

"10000 Armor, reduces the Amount of Phisical incoming DMG by XX,YY%"

So new players and many older ones will much better understand how something works in my character screen.

ginoboehm

Tamanous wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

As a developer I feel ofended of course we use fractions and they don't mess everything up we invented rounding (OK perhaps not the devs) to deal with it. The crit rating number I would get it for crit damage (like spell damage) but not for a chance to crit that is just bad ui design

Almariel

I also submitted a feedback regarding crit bonusses and how they are shown on items and in the character sheet. But I also can understand why we now have these values on items instead of a flat percentage. The percentage was shown on the items in patch 1.6.1 and this was also quite confusing under certain circumstances. What happened when looking at a high level item whith a low level character, which carries your sets for you? Correct, ridiculous critical amounts were displayed, as a high crit Rating Bonus on a V14 item translated in a very high critical percent Bonus.

Example picture:

here a screenshot of a Lv 5 Character looking at a V14 legendary Set item (sry for german screenie). I Displays 32! % spell critical.

For me, the best solution were to show both values in the character sheet, and / or perhaps the percent value on items behind the critical value. Like: 2099 citical value (10%).

greetings, Almariel

Domander

DDuke wrote: »

No. Simply make it show the critical strike % when you hover over it, or next to the rating.

In fact, do the same with Armour / Spell Resistance values (funny how no one finds an issue with these).


What this critical rating allows, is further control over what kind of gear you get. It is there so that the bonus which granted you 2% crit at lvl 40, doesn't give you 2% crit at lvl 50, and when better gear gets released at max level, it is easier to scale up, or scale the old gear down (so people don't eventually have like 100% crit chance with Tier 20 gear).

I agree, I'd like to know what % mitigation my armor is instead of some random number that I have to go test and calculate.

DDuke

Locke_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You can't have X % on gear suddenly turn into Y % as you level up, and you can't keep adding better gear % wise, since you'll eventually run into problems such as having 100% (or more) crit.

Not sure I get what you're saying here. Clearly a level 1 piece with 3% crit is not going to be as good as a level 50 piece with 3% crit because there will be differences in the armour factor, amount of enchantment possibility etc but the 3% crit stat itself is still going to be useful to both levels of player. You don't need to keep inflating the % of critical chance to make it an important statistic.

Certainly you can do without the rating system, and have every piece of gear grant 2-4% critical strike forever, but that takes a lot out of the gear progression and honestly just dumbs down the game.
Pros of the rating system outweigh the cons here, in my opinion, and MMO developers seem to agree with that sentiment.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Combat_rating_system
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Critical_Attack
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Critical_Rating
http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Rating

olsborg

Tamanous wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

yes, agree, what does 2099 crit raiting tell me? nothing, absolutely nothing.

Learn to math or use a mod that converts it once created and it will be created. Programmers don't like using fractions. It messes things all the hells up.

It is the exact same complaint as whining about using metric over imperial. Get used to it. Don't be afraid of change.

lol to this, why should I have to dl addons or have to do the math at all?
Its the UI department that hasnt done its job in my book, me as a paying customer should not have suffer for it.
Its not about change, its about a stupid number trying to represent a % value.

c0rp

This is one of the worst things I've seen in 1.6 yet...who the hell is in charge of making decisions at ZoS?

This game is already known for making it VERY DIFFICULT to tell what the hell is going on with abilities, and scaling, and "the whats and hows" of the mechanics. So why not make it even more difficult, especially for all the new players who will be joining ESO?

The number of times ZoS has made decisions that instantly make me FACEPALM is worth more LOLs than I could spam (if I had a button).