Agony - How Would You Make this Ability Valuable?

Brizz

How Brizz would Fix:

Agony
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 7 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Player gains a shield for [x] Damage plus 2% for each second the stun duration had left.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 1.2 seconds Instant
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.

How would you fix it?

Cody

I would scrap it and replace it with a more useful ability.

Perhaps a way to siphon magicka and/or stamina from the enemy? But then that would be OP.

hmm..
well either way agony is utterly useless, SOELY because of the "effect ends on damage" Either make the cast time instant, and reduce duration to about 4 seconds, WITHOUT ending effect on damage taken, or scrap the ability and replace it with something else. There is no reason to use an ability that stops as soon as one fights, when one can use a knockback/CC from a weapon skill line, or just use aspect of fear.

Xeniph

I'd make it an instant cast root, like Talons or Encase.

One morph can be pbaoe (thinking melee/tanking)
The other could be single target range...say 10/15m.

Brizz

My idea gives nightblade in interesting class shield, no!?

OtarTheMad

Wouldn't be a bad idea to make it like a Sorcs Encase or a DKs Talons. Make it an Instant cast (part of what Brizz said) and make it an ground AOE CC.

Soulac

Xeniph wrote: »

I'd make it an instant cast root, like Talons or Encase.

One morph can be pbaoe (thinking melee/tanking)
The other could be single target range...say 10/15m.

Cripple.. Is basically instant, just travel time, a root and deals dmg.

We don't need the same skill twice.

Brizz

With my idea you get to choose between...

A. a strong shield if it breaks quick/weak shield but high cc if it doesn't break
or
B. a strong ranged aoe if it breaks quick/weak aoe but high cc if it doesn't break

this would make it very unique and way better then on live

Xeniph

Soulac wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I'd make it an instant cast root, like Talons or Encase.

One morph can be pbaoe (thinking melee/tanking)
The other could be single target range...say 10/15m.

Cripple.. Is basically instant, just travel time, a root and deals dmg.

We don't need the same skill twice.

Cripple is a terrible skill to use for a root. Not only is it reflectable it's also blockable.

Changing it something close to Talons/encase would go a long way in helping quite a few builds. Making it a ground targeted skill, would remove the blockable and reflectable portion. And if the other morph was an PBAOE, it would certainly be nice for pve tanking.

Also, in 1.6 with the change to Cripple's morphs, I suspect more people will want Debilitate anyway. As a 1.5 second reflectable/blockable root is really not useful.

But that's just my idea.

* Also, as sort of food for thought, More aoe roots are need in pvp, to help mitigate/combat mass blobbing, imo. But we will have to see how zerging is effected with all the 1.6 changes.

LilChihuahua

Yea definitely a AoE damaging CC like shattering prison or burning talons would help NBs a lot. Aspect of terror is not enough, it can useful but most of the time not really. Especially on mobs 3+.

cwp303b14_ESO

I would like it to be something unique. Keep the cast time and the breaking on damage but modify the damage component.

If it is broken early have the target pulse for small AoE damage for the remaining duration.

Then it would live up to its namesake and be true agony. Screwed if you break it early and screwed if you sit in the CC. Adjust damage accordingly.

phtony06b14_ESO

I approve of this thread.

Muizer

"Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage."

I understand the reasoning, but otoh this makes the ability less than useful in anything except solo PvE.

Xeniph

Muizer wrote: »

"Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage."

I understand the reasoning, but otoh this makes the ability less than useful in anything except solo PvE.

I completely agree. The class needs a reliable, moderately long root.

Well, need is a strong word. But it would be nice.

Samadhi

Frankly, I would simply reduce the stun duration to 4 seconds and double the current damage.

Would like to try the skill in something similar to its current intended design; however, the damage is too low and the stun lacks utility making the current duration pointless.

adriant1978

I'd make it work on a wider range of mobs. Fed up of seeing "is too powerful for this effect".

Jice

The Problem with it to me is it doesn't Syphon anything. Strife Siphons health, Cripple Siphons Speed, Siphoning strikes essentially turns damage into resources and Drain Power turns Damage into Attack power and health.

I feel it would be a fun skill if it was an Instant cast DoT that Set the target off balance for 5 seconds and gave the caster CC immunity for 5 seconds. Essentially a Magika Immovable that does damage.

Suntzu1414

Jice wrote: »

The Problem with it to me is it doesn't Syphon anything. Strife Siphons health, Cripple Siphons Speed, Siphoning strikes essentially turns damage into resources and Drain Power turns Damage into Attack power and health.

I feel it would be a fun skill if it was an Instant cast DoT that Set the target off balance for 5 seconds and gave the caster CC immunity for 5 seconds. Essentially a Magika Immovable that does damage.

this is very good thinking.

My thought on Agony (besides its never being on my bar), is that it "could" be an excellent mass CC skill. This would make an excellent compliment with Lotus Fan, Fear and Siphon Soul (that tethers 6 now).

If they morph Agony, into something similar to SS. Would add an exceptional amount of utility to a class that WILL need it (after 1.6 is launched). I believe, that the lack of soft caps, will effect the NB class(the most)...because of the prevalence of hybrid buiilds.

This would add, a much needed progression, to the class-- besides the Assassin / Healer / Tank. The changes in 1.6 will unfortunately, pigeon hole NB more, forcing NB's in strict build choices....this for class the thrived on diversity.

Agony should be reconsidered.


Kill Well
ST

Helluin

With DoT working also on targets immune to stun, I would suggest this:

Agony
Cast time: 1 second
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 10 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1 second
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 20 seconds when the effect ends, with damage increasing by 10% every 2 seconds.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
(Damage over time lasts for longer and increases over time)

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 1 second
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 10 seconds to all nearby enemies when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
(Deals area damage over time when effect ends)


Cast time is just 1 second, base skill and morphs still have the stun utility but they last for more and they deal more damage.
Prolonged Suffering is a really long DoT with a mechanic similar to Unstable Flame (DK stamina morph of Searing Strike, it deals +12% dmg every 2 seconds at rank IV).
Malefic Wreath becomes an AoE DoT.

All the Siphoning skills have already a clear design: to outlast your target.
These suggested changements share the same idea - concept, enforcing it.

Agony would become then a really interesting skill in every rotation since the DoT is long and strong; one morph is aimed to single target and one to AoE, both would be meaningful choices.
NB magicka builds would gain a great ability to be used both in PvP and PvE increasing their dps.

GreySix

Have to admit: Never saw the value in using Agony as it stands, though if it could stun an area of enemies, it might be worth it.

Helluin

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

I believe, that the lack of soft caps, will effect the NB class(the most)...because of the prevalence of hybrid buiilds.

I agree and NB is a class that encourages hybrid builds.
More than the removal of softcaps, the main problem is that skills are scaling off magicka, stamina or the highest stat.
With at least Ultimates and some skills scaling off a common pool magicka/stamina & spell/weapon dmg, this issue would be solved as I suggested here.

Cody

As long as it ends when the affected targets take damage, the skill is useless.
The ideas on this thread are some good ones. I myself would like it to be a mass CC ability, something similar to the DK talons. However, as long as it ends when targets take damage, it will be literally impossible to use.

Fatalyis

I actually used Agony in beta, during it's first iteration when the DoT actually started when you stunned them, and had some mild success with it. As it stands now, it's a joke. Something needs to be done with it.

TheBull

Just make it go through block, and make it work on riding, stunned and knocked down targets. It breaks on dmg anyways...

Darkonflare15

cwp303b14_ESO wrote: »

I would like it to be something unique. Keep the cast time and the breaking on damage but modify the damage component.

If it is broken early have the target pulse for small AoE damage for the remaining duration.

Then it would live up to its namesake and be true agony. Screwed if you break it early and screwed if you sit in the CC. Adjust damage accordingly.

Yeah I agree. They should finished what the skill is trying to be than trying to make it something that does not fit the ability.

DDuke

Agony
Cast time: 1.5 seconds
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 15 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 75% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.5 seconds
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 15 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 80% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 3 seconds
Target: Ground
Range: 18 Meters
Radius: 4 Meters
Shackles enemies within in torment stunning them for 15 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 75% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.


I'd like to see some real CC abilities in the game, which the opponent wouldn't always be able (or want) to break, which could bring a whole new tactical element into PvP.

Malefic Wreath especially would be an interesting one given this treatment, since it could act as an anti-zerg skill (but still be counterable, by having only one person break out of it, damaging the others around him).

Brizz

DDuke wrote: »

Agony
Cast time: 1.5 seconds
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 15 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 5 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 75% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.

Prolonged Suffering
Cast time: 1.5 seconds
Shackle an enemy in torment stunning them for 30 seconds and dealing [x] Magic Damage over 15 seconds when the effect ends.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 80% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.

Malefic Wreath
Cast time: 3 seconds
Target: Ground
Range: 18 Meters
Radius: 4 Meters
Shackles enemies within in torment stunning them for 15 seconds and damaging all nearby enemies when the effect ends for [x] Magic Damage plus 2% for each second the target was stunned. stun duration had left.
Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage.
Costs 75% of stamina to break.
Grants 10 second immunity to CC.
Deals area damage when the effect ends.


I'd like to see some real CC abilities in the game, which the opponent wouldn't always be able (or want) to break, which could bring a whole new tactical element into PvP.

Malefic Wreath especially would be an interesting one given this treatment, since it could act as an anti-zerg skill (but still be counterable, by having only one person break out of it, damaging the others around him).

Nightblades are already the best class when your goal is to drain your opponents stamina via crowd control. Your solution seems to be a lazy shortcut using one ability.

Observant

I'd like to meet the clown that thought it was useful in the first place, and fire that individual on site.

Pirhana7_ESO

Observant wrote: »

I'd like to meet the clown that thought it was useful in the first place, and fire that individual on site.

The concept was very good to be able to makes a 1v2 a 1v1 for those 15 seconds, BUT then they addedd CC break to game and it pretty much took away tthe ability because anyone will trade 50% stamina to break it.

take away the ability to use CC break on it and it is a very strong ability

Panda244

I'd remove it from the game, an give replace it with a self heal, or damage shield. Or another damage ability.

Fatalyis

I wouldn't even care about a damage shield if they would just fix cloak. If cloak worked (as intended) every time I used it, it would be better than a damage shield in my opinion.

VileIntent

its crap, you cannot polish crap. remove it for something better. something on the lines of a Green Dragons Blood or Breath of Life.