Igneous Shield - please let it scale with Magicka!

Seraphyel

Darkintellect wrote: »

That's what this thread is about.

It is, indeed! Thank you.

My purpose is to make all 4 classes viable healers in one way or another. As mentioned above, Templars have an entire tree for heals (that's a design mistake imho, but okay), Nightblades have the Siphoning line with at least 2 great and 1 good skill (Funnel Health, Soul Siphon and Power Extraction) for healing, Dragon Knights only have Igneous Shield and it's buff, Sorcerers have nothing right now (after Surge change) - so why not make DK & Sorc adequate healers without changing that much?

Igneous Shield is the skill that could turn a DK healer from okay-good to great (=on par with Templar / NB). That's all I want.

Yuke

Instead of changing the DK shield they should consider changing the Sorc shields to hp...

Harness should be the only one scaling with magicka.

AriBoh

Darkintellect wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I don't see any reason why Barrier (Alliance) scales of Magicka, Sorc shields scale of Magicka etc. and only Igneous doesn't. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

Bone Shield scales off Health. Sun Shield (Templar) I believe also scales off Health. I don't know where my opinion lies about what Shields should scale off of, I just don't think Igneous Shield needs any tweaking atm, personally.

EDIT: I do however believe that Sorcs' Hardened Ward should scale off Health like DK and Templar Shields do. That's my only thought on scaling.

The only shields that scale off of health are Obsidian line and Barrier with regard to numeral values. This is based on coefficients. Harness Magicka, Sorcerer Ward and Resto staff shield all scale off Magicka and spell power.

However, this signifies that shields can and should be designed off magicka, at the very least a morph with this allowance.

This issue is about the role of a healer. Templars have varying heals, NB has various powerful heal over times, dragonknight should have a comparable damage shield. Currently Nightblade and Templar variants far outweigh the potency of use with regard to the Dragonknight and the Sorcerer needs it's own variation to lend a hand into the healing platform.

That's what this thread is about.

Sun Shield and its morphs are equal to 30% of your maximum health. Steadfast Ward may initially scale off magika and it gives less than 2000 shield at full health for most (maybe up to 4000 for really high magicka/spellpower) it then gains a boost from % of health lost, So magika shields are actually in the minority.

Digiman

Seraphyel wrote: »

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Shouldn't there be sorcerer healers?

Seraphyel

Digiman wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Shouldn't there be sorcerer healers?

Sure. That's why I mentioned them as well.

Lionxoft

Seraphyel wrote: »

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Shields scaling off of an offensive stat are already a problem. Let's not dig the hole deeper.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

My purpose is to make all 4 classes viable healers in one way or another. As mentioned above, Templars have an entire tree for heals (that's a design mistake imho, but okay), Nightblades have the Siphoning line with at least 2 great and 1 good skill (Funnel Health, Soul Siphon and Power Extraction) for healing, Dragon Knights only have Igneous Shield and it's buff, Sorcerers have nothing right now (after Surge change) - so why not make DK & Sorc adequate healers without changing that much?

Igneous Shield is the skill that could turn a DK healer from okay-good to great (=on par with Templar / NB). That's all I want.

All 4 Classes already are viable Healers, there's just a stigma attached to ANY Class that isn't Templar in some Player's minds, and yes that includes NB's. I can't tell you how many times I've been questioned if I could even Heal this or that Vet Dungeon as a NB and then we end up with a no-death-speed run. Making Classes "equal" in anything is the path to homogenization and is absolutely the wrong road to head down. Having Classes approach a Role differently is part of what's great about ESO.

Your comment on Surge is inaccurate. Sorc Healers don't need Surge to Heal and it only benefits them when they do, also 1.6.1 reverted the Heal back. NB Healers don't use Sap Essence to Heal (it's Heal isn't even as strong as ONE Healing Springs, which returns Magicka and is therefore more cost efficient). Also probably 99% of NB Healers use VoB exclusively as their "Healing" Ultimate, not Soul Siphon. DK's have SoM for nearly the same effect and also have Magma Shell (another Shield that scales off Health) that's a huge life saver if used correctly.

DK's have the highest capable burst Healing in the game if they use what ZoS has given them. Stacking Igneous Shield + Sanctuary + The Ritual + Ring of Preservation (1.6 changes) + Healer's Habit + the Blessed & Elfborn Stars in the Champion System = ridiculous Healing numbers, the Quick Recovery Star helps on the Healer as well. Also, the Bastion Star adds absorption to all Shields.

Sorcs are superior to ALL Classes in regards to Magicka management while Healing, thus making them the go-to for speed runs in a good group. They don't however have a good "Healing" type of Ultimate so many use Barrier which takes Alliance Rank 12 or something. Those who don't like PvP are probably jaded about that, which is understandable.

Long story short, ALL Healers are viable if played well, you just need to use what ZoS has given the Class to your advantage. I've been in groups with terrible Templar Healers and groups with great Sorc Healers. I've had a VR7 Sorc Healer complete VR14 Vet CoA with hardly any deaths, so it certainly can be done.

Seraphyel

DeLindsay wrote: »

All 4 Classes already are viable Healers, there's just a stigma attached to ANY Class that isn't Templar in some Player's minds, and yes that includes NB's. I can't tell you how many times I've been questioned if I could even Heal this or that Vet Dungeon as a NB and then we end up with a no-death-speed run. Making Classes "equal" in anything is the path to homogenization and is absolutely the wrong road to head down. Having Classes approach a Role differently is part of what's great about ESO.

Your comment on Surge is inaccurate. Sorc Healers don't need Surge to Heal and it only benefits them when they do, also 1.6.1 reverted the Heal back. NB Healers don't use Sap Essence to Heal (it's Heal isn't even as strong as ONE Healing Springs, which returns Magicka and is therefore more cost efficient). Also probably 99% of NB Healers use VoB exclusively as their "Healing" Ultimate, not Soul Siphon. DK's have SoM for nearly the same effect and also have Magma Shell (another Shield that scales off Health) that's a huge life saver if used correctly.

DK's have the highest capable burst Healing in the game if they use what ZoS has given them. Stacking Igneous Shield + Sanctuary + The Ritual + Ring of Preservation (1.6 changes) + Healer's Habit + the Blessed & Elfborn Stars in the Champion System = ridiculous Healing numbers, the Quick Recovery Star helps on the Healer as well. Also, the Bastion Star adds absorption to all Shields.

Sorcs are superior to ALL Classes in regards to Magicka management while Healing, thus making them the go-to for speed runs in a good group. They don't however have a good "Healing" type of Ultimate so many use Barrier which takes Alliance Rank 12 or something. Those who don't like PvP are probably jaded about that, which is understandable.

Long story short, ALL Healers are viable if played well, you just need to use what ZoS has given the Class to your advantage. I've been in groups with terrible Templar Healers and groups with great Sorc Healers. I've had a VR7 Sorc Healer complete VR14 Vet CoA with hardly any deaths, so it certainly can be done.

No, they're not. That's what most people say, especially at VR14 and regarding trials etc. I think every class is able of healing okay, but there are differences. See the huge and fast burst heals only Templars have.

Homogenization? No way. It's just what Zenimax wanted to do: make every class able of filling every role. That all 4 classes can put out equal DPS numbers or are capable of healing everything out there is not homogenization, it's how it should be. All classes should do it in a different way, but the goal is the same.

My comment on Surge is totally fine, you just misinterpreted it. Surge gave Resto heals a buff, that's what I meant. Veil of Blades, Soul Siphon - who cares? Still two strong healing ultimates that NBs have - two more than Sorcerers. Magma Shell = Synergy --> hard to bring it on in stacked fights without using TS or some coordination.

And no, Templars still have the highest burst healing, I tested it. I couldn't manage to get a heal near the 7,2k I got on my VR14 PTS Templar.

Being superior when it comes to Magicka doesn't make you a better healer. It gives you more endurance, but sometimes that's still not needed. But yeah, that could be an advantage - or better, is.

If I (or better we) would use wat ZoS has given the classes, there wouldn't be room for improvements - sorry, but that statement is on the one hand okay, but on the other hand totally lethargic.

Viable yes, adequate: no. And that's the issue. It could be done: great! But with different efforts? Okay. There is no reason to give other classes quality of life changes and to let other classes out - hard enough that Zenimax' totally unbalances classes, but there are some easy things that could be done to improve the overall class-role-experience.

Panda244

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

My purpose is to make all 4 classes viable healers in one way or another. As mentioned above, Templars have an entire tree for heals (that's a design mistake imho, but okay), Nightblades have the Siphoning line with at least 2 great and 1 good skill (Funnel Health, Soul Siphon and Power Extraction) for healing, Dragon Knights only have Igneous Shield and it's buff, Sorcerers have nothing right now (after Surge change) - so why not make DK & Sorc adequate healers without changing that much?

Igneous Shield is the skill that could turn a DK healer from okay-good to great (=on par with Templar / NB). That's all I want.

All 4 Classes already are viable Healers, there's just a stigma attached to ANY Class that isn't Templar in some Player's minds, and yes that includes NB's. I can't tell you how many times I've been questioned if I could even Heal this or that Vet Dungeon as a NB and then we end up with a no-death-speed run. Making Classes "equal" in anything is the path to homogenization and is absolutely the wrong road to head down. Having Classes approach a Role differently is part of what's great about ESO.

Your comment on Surge is inaccurate. Sorc Healers don't need Surge to Heal and it only benefits them when they do, also 1.6.1 reverted the Heal back. NB Healers don't use Sap Essence to Heal (it's Heal isn't even as strong as ONE Healing Springs, which returns Magicka and is therefore more cost efficient). Also probably 99% of NB Healers use VoB exclusively as their "Healing" Ultimate, not Soul Siphon. DK's have SoM for nearly the same effect and also have Magma Shell (another Shield that scales off Health) that's a huge life saver if used correctly.

DK's have the highest capable burst Healing in the game if they use what ZoS has given them. Stacking Igneous Shield + Sanctuary + The Ritual + Ring of Preservation (1.6 changes) + Healer's Habit + the Blessed & Elfborn Stars in the Champion System = ridiculous Healing numbers, the Quick Recovery Star helps on the Healer as well. Also, the Bastion Star adds absorption to all Shields.

Sorcs are superior to ALL Classes in regards to Magicka management while Healing, thus making them the go-to for speed runs in a good group. They don't however have a good "Healing" type of Ultimate so many use Barrier which takes Alliance Rank 12 or something. Those who don't like PvP are probably jaded about that, which is understandable.

Long story short, ALL Healers are viable if played well, you just need to use what ZoS has given the Class to your advantage. I've been in groups with terrible Templar Healers and groups with great Sorc Healers. I've had a VR7 Sorc Healer complete VR14 Vet CoA with hardly any deaths, so it certainly can be done.

Sanctuary only goes up to v5, and no class has a stronger burst heal than Templars, Breath of Life has crit me at 15% HP for 2.7k before... That's insanity, no class can beat that. None. As for Sap Essence, a spell power/crit build NB with siponing attacks can throw out 400-500 heals endlessly with sap essence, it's better than healing springs in some cases, just not as efficient like you said.

The -only- reason no other class can compare to Templars is Breath of Life, no other class can get that kind of burst heal. DKs can get close, but not with Sanctuary set, just the healer set with the thorn resto staff and igneous shield.. And even with that, the people you're healing have to be in front of you.

NBs make great healers if you stack Funnel Health, Rapid Regen, that's nearly 400 Heals per second on live if done right, then to compensate for burst heal just use healing ward and bone shield, that'll give NBs the same general burst as a templar healer, but it has a delay, and potential to get broken. Which is why BoL is still better.

Templars - 1st
Nightblades - 2nd
Dragonknights - 3rd
Sorcerors - 4th

If a Sorceror or Dragonknight wants to heal a vet dungeon, let them, if a Nightblade or Templar wants to heal a vet dungeon, let them, as far as trials go... I want a BoL spamming Templar humping my leg for that.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

My comment on Surge is totally fine, you just misinterpreted it. Surge gave Resto heals a buff, that's what I meant.

And no, Templars still have the highest burst healing, I tested it. I couldn't manage to get a heal near the 7,2k I got on my VR14 PTS Templar.

Being superior when it comes to Magicka doesn't make you a better healer. It gives you more endurance, but sometimes that's still not needed.

Yes I did misinterpret the Surge comment. But ironically you bring up the scaling change to Resto Staves that made Surge useless for Sorc Healers but didn't talk about the same for DK's using Molten Weapons.

Templars ONLY ability that surpasses DK in burst healing is BoL (which DK has no access to), that's it but I'll get to that later.

Having vastly superior Magicka management can indeed make a Sorc a better Healer and the reason is Spell Damage (in 1.6). Because Sorcs don't have to worry as much about Magicka due to Dark Exchange they could in theory stack tons of Spell Damage therefore considerably increasing their Healing output. It's a more stressful way to play as you may end up relying on Dark Exchange to your own peril but it's certainly a viable option. I highly doubt any but the best Healers would go that route, and only with a good group that's maybe in TS/Vent so coordination is easier.

Back to DK vs Templar burst, I just did some testing on PTS over the last hour or so and the results are exactly as I expected. For this test I made 2 Templates, 1 DK and 1 Templar. Both were made Breton and wore the exact same gear for the tests so that the values would be as unbiased as possible. I used the 200 Spell cost reduction to all 3 Jewelry pcs with the Mage's Box Aether Template gear (horrible for Healing, great for testing as it's all exactly the same on both toons). I pointed every single Passive for all 3 Class trees, Light Armor, Resto Staff, Mage's Guild, Undaunted and Racial. Both VR14's had:

• 28,346 Magicka
• 825 Magicka Regen
• 1309 Spell Damage
• Inner Light
• The Ritual Mundus
• Identical Gear and Attributes
• VR10 Epic Food
• 12 pts in Blessed and 11 pts in Elfborn Stars

As for Healing done I used Purifying Ritual to gain the 30% Healing bonus via Focused Healing for Templar Heals (doesn't effect Resto Staff Heals) as well as Igneous Shield to gain the 30% Healing bonus (does effect Resto Staff Heals). Here are the results:

• Breath of Life: 7286 & 9348 non-Crit / 10,929 & 14,022 Crit (the only ability that had 2 non-Crit and 2 Crit values ,even within the +30% timer).
• Healing Springs:
  • Templar = 1733 non-Crit / 2599 Crit
  • DK = 2146 non-Crit / 3219 Crit
• Rapid Regen:
  • Templar = 1252 non-Crit / 1878 Crit
  • DK = 1550 non-Crit / 2325 Crit
• Blessing of Restoration:
  • Templar = 5778 non-Crit / 8667 Crit
  • DK = 7154 non-Crit / 10,731 Crit (roughly the same as 1 of the 2 BoL Crits)

Breath of Life only heals 3 Targets but Blessing of Restoration and Healing Springs can Heal up to 6 at full strength then up to 60 at lowered strength (in 1.6). This is the reason DK's are the highest capable burst Healers in the game. It's very simple math folks. If you Heal 3 Players for 14,022 each, that's 42,066 worth of Healing. If you however heal 6 Players for 10,731 each, that's 64,386 worth of Healing. DK's Healing done exceeds Templars for ALL Resto Staff abilities. BoL is the ONLY ability that Templars have that can exceed (individually) DK's Healing. Not even Healing Ritual Heals as high as what DK can push out with Blessing (except on the Templar themselves due to the additional +30% on self, and only by a small amount). With Ritual I was seeing 5464 non-Crit and 8241 Crit (on Allies, +30% on self).

I won't argue that Templars are superior at HPS, they certainly are, but this came about due to my saying DK's are superior burst Healers, which they are. A DK Healer cannot compare to a Templar Healer in many situations, nor can a Sorc or NB. Templar's BoL is utterly amazing for certain Boss fights and indispensable for groups full of bads, where Healing would be far more difficult for non-Templar Healers.

Domander

Darkintellect wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

No, it should scale off health, along with every other shield in the game...so you don't get silliness like Sorc shields right now.

You are aware that Restro staff damage shield scales off of Magicka and Spell Power. As well as other class damage shields. Sorcerer shield works off Magicka and Spell power as does Harness Magicka shield. Sun Shield and Bone Shield are flat rate % values and are not altered with stats. The only ones that use Health are Barrier and Obsidian Shield.

If PVP is an issue, allow the coefficient to scale on a separate value from PVE. Allow players and NPC's to crit through damage shields and increase the mana cost.

Resto staff shield also scales off health lost though

Domander

I'd say if you're using it just for the group shield, you're doing it wrong. The group shield is more of an extra, or it wouldn't be 100% more on the caster. Use it more for the awesome healing buff.

Seraphyel

Domander wrote: »

I'd say if you're using it just for the group shield, you're doing it wrong. The group shield is more of an extra, or it wouldn't be 100% more on the caster. Use it more for the awesome healing buff.

As I said, the healing buff is new to the skill. A long time it just has been a mediocre shield.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'd say if you're using it just for the group shield, you're doing it wrong. The group shield is more of an extra, or it wouldn't be 100% more on the caster. Use it more for the awesome healing buff.

As I said, the healing buff is new to the skill. A long time it just has been a mediocre shield.

But it's not new to the skill. Igneous Shield has had the Healing buff for a long time. I'm not sure how long specifically but if you check Esohead it shows Igneous Shield with it's current Live +33% Healing done (1.6 dropped it to 30% and 1.6.1 added 1 second) and Esohead hasn't been updated since Patch 1.3.5, which was in August. That means Igneous Shield has had the Healing done portion for more than half of ESO's existence since launch.

Seraphyel

DeLindsay wrote: »

Yes I did misinterpret the Surge comment. But ironically you bring up the scaling change to Resto Staves that made Surge useless for Sorc Healers but didn't talk about the same for DK's using Molten Weapons.

Templars ONLY ability that surpasses DK in burst healing is BoL (which DK has no access to), that's it but I'll get to that later.

*shortened*

I tested Molten Weapons and it doesn't affect Resto heals. It's something different from the "old" Surge - so why should I mention it?

You can't compare BoL with Blessing. Blessing has many disadvantages:

1. Range + cone width (You need your targets directly in a cone in front of you, whilst high moving phases that's awful, especially when you need to hit 2 or more spreading targets)
2. Effect (BoL still is stronger and it's an intelligent heal)
3. Timing / Placement

In keep battles, you may be totally right. In stacked fights you are right, too. But what's with smaller group content with spread targets?

Not to mention all those Templar passives for healing... but I see your point and you are right in some ways, no doubt about that.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'd say if you're using it just for the group shield, you're doing it wrong. The group shield is more of an extra, or it wouldn't be 100% more on the caster. Use it more for the awesome healing buff.

As I said, the healing buff is new to the skill. A long time it just has been a mediocre shield.

But it's not new to the skill. Igneous Shield has had the Healing buff for a long time. I'm not sure how long specifically but if you check Esohead it shows Igneous Shield with it's current Live +33% Healing done (1.6 dropped it to 30% and 1.6.1 added 1 second) and Esohead hasn't been updated since Patch 1.3.5, which was in August. That means Igneous Shield has had the Healing done portion for more than half of ESO's existence since launch.

You are right, I just wanted to say that Igenous Shield now isn't the skill which it was at launch and few months after that.

It's new to the skill and was highly needed. It was a quality of life change - and like that, a different scaling would be another quality of life change.

I would prefer totally relying on shields instead of heals, but the scaling is just awful, even with full health (compared to the heals afterwards).

Domander

Seraphyel wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'd say if you're using it just for the group shield, you're doing it wrong. The group shield is more of an extra, or it wouldn't be 100% more on the caster. Use it more for the awesome healing buff.

As I said, the healing buff is new to the skill. A long time it just has been a mediocre shield.

Yes, it's a bigger shield, originally it was just a bigger shield. It's now a bigger shield with a heal buff to make it more useful, and so a healing DK isn't behind the other classes.

It was always 100% more on the caster, so it's a large shield on self and a smaller one on the group to help out.

DeLindsay

@Seraphyel I absolutely agree that in groups of 3 or less (technically 4 or less) Templar is a superior burst healer, but my comment was that DK is the highest capable burst Healer. I can name several fights where Templar is hands down the best choice, Ash Titan in Vet CoA is the first that comes to mind. Praxin in Vet SC is another (not due to range though), Bogdan in Vet EH (again not due to range, but Boss mechanics) and High Kinlord Rilis in Vet BC to name a few. All of which I have personally been in Groups that were Healed by all 4 Classes just fine, myself included as a NB, but all are certainly easier as a Templar.

Blessing should in fact be compared to BoL and the reason is the current Meta in ESO is stacking for Heals. As you mention Keep fighting, there's also the burn phase on the Mage in AA where BoL is all but useless. In fact during the burn phase Healing Springs is used almost exclusive to any other Heals, which DK can push out higher HPS than Templar. To be fair in AA all but the Wisp Mother and Phase 1 of the Mage are nothing more than stack on Crown and spam Healing Springs, though BoL certainly helps with Tank Healing for Phase 1 Mage fight.

I really like the way Igneous Shield works from a DK Healer perspective. I would even go as far as to say ZoS should consider increasing it's Heal to 40% (the current max for major buffs on PTS) and the duration of the Healing done buff to 10 seconds to give DK's even stronger burst capability. Shields n' Heals is what they should call DK Healers lol.

GaldorP

Seraphyel wrote: »

And why should stamina DKs use Igneous Shield?

To answer this question

1. You regain 5% Stamina when you use an Earthen Heart ability (with full passives) and all nearby allies gain increased Weapon Damage for 20 seconds in 1.6. Green Dragon Blood grants more Stamina in total with the increased Stamina Recovery bonus, but only if you let it run for the full duration of 18 seconds (or at least for ~10 seconds) and don't use it twice in that time. The 5% Stamina gained from Igneous Shield/Fragmented Shield is instant. If you are not the main tank in a group, then the 12% bonus to healing received while a Draconic Power ability is active (Green Dragon Blood) is not that important.

2. It's more cost efficient than Green Dragon Blood when you are near max Health (offers more protection/healing than Green Dragon Blood for slightly lower Magicka cost).

3. It gives a bit of extra protection to all nearby group members even when they are at max Health which also gives you a chance to survive some attacks that would normally one-hit you (in PvP for example).

So, for soloing, PvP, and veteran group dungeons, I think Igneous Shield is a great skill for Stamina DKs. I find it really useful when fighting bosses like Nerien'eth or Vila Theran. In trials it's probably better to replace it with Green Dragon Blood, use that once every 20 seconds and use the rest of your Magicka for damage (as dps). But then again, I don't have a lot of experience with trials, so someone correct me if I'm wrong

On topic: Making Igneous Shield scale with Magicka would nerf it for most tank builds and all Stamina DK builds so for them, the skill wouldn't really be an option anymore. I'm against a change that reduces the number of skills/morphs to choose from for non-Magicka DK builds. The very strong bonus to healing done from the Igneous Shield morph already is one that specifically helps healers the most.
If the damage shield part of the skill wouldn't get nerfed for non-Magicka builds and only made stronger for Magicka builds then the skill could quickly become too strong. I think it's rather well-balanced as it is now (compared to many other damage shield effects which appear to be out of the developpers' control in 1.6.).

Seraphyel

As I said, there are more than enough skills for Tank / DPS DKs and there is just one for DK healer.

And there is still another morph. Zenimax just has to adjust the scaling or make it scale off your highest stat.

To be honest I think it's quite selfish when DKs don't want it to be changed because if could effect their quite worked out playstyle whilst especially DK healers are the bottomline next to Sorcerers, when it comes to possibilities in healing.

As I said, they musn't totally revamp it, just adjust it. So that every DK is fine with it.

Maulkin

I'm gonna throw my 2p here.

I'm not sure who it benefits when it scales by Health.

The effect on tanks is negligible. As a tank holding aggro, what you need is HP because damage hitting your HP is mitigated by block first and then your armor resistances (which are superb for heavy armor in 1.6). Damage Shields are irrelevant for tanks because they don't received the mitigation. A 10k shield will go down in Trials or Vet Dungeons in under 2" while tanking boss and adds. 10k HP will last carry you a helluva lot more.

Whether the shield is 10k or 7k it doesn't really make any difference. The reason the DK tank casts it, is for the increased healing and the stamina return from helping hands passive. But like i said, the actual value of the shield is of little importance.

On the other hand large shields are more important for builds with little mitigation. Walnut builds as some call them (hard exterior but soft interior). The builds with the lowest mitigation in the game are light armor builds and they rely on shields more than anyone.

To wade in on the Healer DK debate as well, it's only marginally more useful than on the tank. Again, you want the shield just for the increase in healing the actual value of the shield is not so important. It is slightly more important than for tanks, because if you get targeted by many adds by accident/stupidity/whatever, you could survive long enough until the tank draws them away by spamming your shield.

I think the biggest loser in the current state is a DK light armor PvPer who could use the shield for protection more than the Tank DK or Healer DK. And more than the medium armor DK because he has about 1/3 of the damage mitigation of medium armor

I believe the class as a whole would be better off if one morph scaled off stamina (Fragmented Shield) and one off magicka (Igneous Shield). That's my humble opinion.

Seraphyel

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I believe the class as a whole would be better off if one morph scaled off stamina (Fragmented Shield) and one off magicka (Igneous Shield). That's my humble opinion.

That's exactly what I want.

Or let Igneous Scale with your highest stat and let Fragmented Shield as it is. They did this in 1.6 for Sorcerers, so it it possible.

From a healer perspective, I want the shield for 2 reasons:

1) Lower incoming damage spikes on the group mates

2) Healing buff

With 6 seconds, the healing buff is quite short - the Shield costs a huge amount of Magicka to cast it every 6 seconds or so (yeah, not needed, but still).

They could either increase the duration or make the shield itself more useful. I like to be the "Shield-Absorb-Healer"-DK, but you have a hard time when a split up group gets damage. To prevent this, you could precast the shield.

I am just giving examples, but in your quote you said all necessary.

trimsic_ESO

The problems with damage shields scaling off magicka are:
- Heavy magicka builds have both a strong offensive and a strong defensive capability.
- Heavy stamina builds are less effective at using their magicka pool for mitigating the incoming damage.

Seraphyel

I am aware of the issues with the damage shields, but nevertheless...

McDoogs

Seraphyel wrote: »

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Because mitigation skills scaling off of damage resource pools is a terrible idea and causes imbalances in the 1.6 uncapped game. Swallow your hardened ward envy my friend.

snipeopsub17_ESO

All shields, including Sorcerer shields should scale off of health/armor. Scaling a defensive (tanking) ability off of an offensive stat is only asking for trouble (balance wise). Damage shields are a tanking utility and should be scaled as such.

Seraphyel

snipeopsub17_ESO wrote: »

Damage shields are a tanking utility and should be scaled as such.

Not really. They tend to be healing utility, too. Or just support.

To scale them off health is not very clever.

They must be adjusted, that's for sure, but they should scale of your main attribute.

Varicite

Seraphyel wrote: »

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Why should it ONLY be for DK healers, when so many more people enjoy this ability currently?

Most especially stamina DKs.