Igneous Shield - please let it scale with Magicka!

Seraphyel

Hey there,

title says it all.

Igneous Shield is the DK-healer morph of Obsidian Shield. Right now it scales only with health (both morphs) and it's just not fair for the rare played DK-healers (like me).

There is absolutely no reason why it's a Health rather than a Magicka ability. Tanks can take the Fragmented Shield as it is supposed to, healers take the Igneous Shield for the incredible strong +healing buff. But: why doesn't scale it with Magicka?

Sure, the skill would be incredible strong if it would scale with Magicka, but you could just increase the cost or decrease the percentage for the scaling.

DK-healers are maybe the least seen out there (guess why) but with this quality of life change there could be many more - Zenimax, you split some Sorcerer / DK morphs to let them scale with either Magicka or Stamina, please do the same with Igneous Shield and let it scale with Magicka.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

and what about stamina dk's? health scaling is not optimal for both magicka/stamina but at least it's a compromise.

Jaerlach

Don't ruin my igneous, tanks use it too. It works with green dragon blood, you know.

Its also used heavily in pvp for that interaction.

Seraphyel

Than they should let it scale with your highest stat, like some Sorc abilities in 1.6.

And why should stamina DKs use Igneous Shield? For the +healing buff for some kind of self healing build? I see, but for pure healer it's still mediocre at best and without the buff not even worth using.

ArconSeptim

Seraphyel wrote: »

Hey there,

title says it all.

Igneous Shield is the DK-healer morph of Obsidian Shield. Right now it scales only with health (both morphs) and it's just not fair for the rare played DK-healers (like me).

There is absolutely no reason why it's a Health rather than a Magicka ability. Tanks can take the Fragmented Shield as it is supposed to, healers take the Igneous Shield for the incredible strong +healing buff. But: why doesn't scale it with Magicka?

Sure, the skill would be incredible strong if it would scale with Magicka, but you could just increase the cost or decrease the percentage for the scaling.

DK-healers are maybe the least seen out there (guess why) but with this quality of life change there could be many more - Zenimax, you split some Sorcerer / DK morphs to let them scale with either Magicka or Stamina, please do the same with Igneous Shield and let it scale with Magicka.

No and No

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

Seraphyel wrote: »

Than they should let it scale with your highest stat, like some Sorc abilities in 1.6.

And why should stamina DKs use Igneous Shield? For the +healing buff for some kind of self healing build? I see, but for pure healer it's still mediocre at best and without the buff not even worth using.

i'm talking pvp here, in pve it's rather useless unless you're a tank.

Jaerlach

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Than they should let it scale with your highest stat, like some Sorc abilities in 1.6.

And why should stamina DKs use Igneous Shield? For the +healing buff for some kind of self healing build? I see, but for pure healer it's still mediocre at best and without the buff not even worth using.

i'm talking pvp here, in pve it's rather useless unless you're a tank.

I've seen dk healers pop it before throwing springs in major healing phases like serpent poison phase. Its situational but powerful.


And great for tanks and pvpers.

Armitas

Little off topic but I would like to see some actual damage on frag shield.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

No.

Panda244

I'm a DK, and no. We're already to hard to kill and you want to give us 300-400 more points of dmg shield?

On live as of right now the damage shield is 950, which suits me just fine.

Darkintellect

Allow Igneous Shield to scale off Magicka, remove the 100% bonus to the caster, limit it to the 3 closest targets and yourself and expand the range.

Allow the other morph to retain functionality for tanks and scale it off Health or Stamina.

Currently the only truly viable healers are Nightblade and Templar. I main a NB Healer and on PTS I heal for around 1350 every 1.6 from Rapid Regen, 2920 every 2 seconds from Health Funnel and because my regens happen so often, my Nightflame totem is almost always up barring the 5 second cooldown from duration. That heals for 1210 a second to the group.

This is not counting crits. I have twice born star and running full divine with Thief and Shadow which has me nearly at 80% crit damage bonus at 48% crit rate on PTS.

I can burst heal with these consistently running on the group with no mana problems. Dragonknights and Sorcerers just don't have the ability to compete and this is bothersome.

I built a Dragonknight Support Healer and when I realized that Obsidian Shield stacked off of Health, it was what crippled my build. I continued anyway and built pure health with pure magicka reduction.

It worked but no where near the capability of a Templar or a Nightblade.

Seraphyel

Panda244 wrote: »

I'm a DK, and no. We're already to hard to kill and you want to give us 300-400 more points of dmg shield?

On live as of right now the damage shield is 950, which suits me just fine.

Are you a DK healer? No?

I am talking solely about healing DKs. And it would be a quality of life change. As I said, they can decrease the scaling rate or something like that, but it seems to be the only DK ability that's suited for healers and some DK tanks & DPS don't want it to be changed? I don't get it. There are a dozen others ability only suiting for DK tanks and DDs, why shouldn't be there at least one skill for DK healers that's really good?

Domander

No thanks.

Seraphyel

All the guys saying no, could you tell me why? I'd like to understand it.

Shouldn't there be DK healers?

Father

i thought the healing bonus procs in the first 6 sec, shield stays for longer so an increase won't help u that much.
The new CS offers some nice boosts for healers like increase healing given increase absorbtion shields etc..

Seraphyel

Yeah sure, but I think there is not enough Magicka to make it an everlasting buff.

The thing is, for healer DK's the shield is really low - something about 1,7k on the PTS whilst most players have 15-20k HP. With full health it's 5k, that's incredibly strong but it totally weakens every other heal skill.

Panda244

Seraphyel wrote: »

Yeah sure, but I think there is not enough Magicka to make it an everlasting buff.

The thing is, for healer DK's the shield is really low - something about 1,7k on the PTS whilst most players have 15-20k HP. With full health it's 5k, that's incredibly strong but it totally weakens every other heal skill.

I'm saying no because if you want to use a damage shield, use Bone Shield, I've met two DK healers in all my time of ESO and they said they only use Igneous for the 6s heal buff, there isn't any reason to use it as an actual damage shield, it only protects your allies from one attack.

Now you want to scale it off of Magicka, which makes sense. But. If you scaled it off of magicka people would QQ and ask for DKs to be nerfed because it'd make them that much harder to kill in PvP. As for DK healers being a thing, they don't have BoL, any class can heal a vet dungeon but you need a strong burst heal for anything above that. Which is why DKs aren't really considered healers, they make great utility heals, because they can spam Igneous, Healing Springs, Bone Shield, and Magma Armor, for the lulz damage shields. But as far as a legit endgame healer goes it just isn't viable, because they don't have any good class heals. The resto-tree heals only get you so far.

Seraphyel

Panda244 wrote: »

I'm saying no because if you want to use a damage shield, use Bone Shield, I've met two DK healers in all my time of ESO and they said they only use Igneous for the 6s heal buff, there isn't any reason to use it as an actual damage shield, it only protects your allies from one attack.

Now you want to scale it off of Magicka, which makes sense. But. If you scaled it off of magicka people would QQ and ask for DKs to be nerfed because it'd make them that much harder to kill in PvP. As for DK healers being a thing, they don't have BoL, any class can heal a vet dungeon but you need a strong burst heal for anything above that. Which is why DKs aren't really considered healers, they make great utility heals, because they can spam Igneous, Healing Springs, Bone Shield, and Magma Armor, for the lulz damage shields. But as far as a legit endgame healer goes it just isn't viable, because they don't have any good class heals. The resto-tree heals only get you so far.

You see that your statement is exactly what I am saying?

If they would make this shield valid for DK healers (only), we could be competitive. Absorbing 5k damage is better than healing for 5k - and we get the buff, too.

Every skill has two morphs, so I don't see the reason for not giving it one healer (Magicka) and one DPS / Tank morph.

As you said, DK healers are rare and that's one reason for that. I love to play DK healer and I really would like to see some developer love with some quality of life changes - Igneous Shield with Magicka scaling would be a huge bump.

Snit

I'd like to see class shields scale off the higher of stamina or magicka, to make more specs viable. This goes for the sorc version, too, so those trying to play a stamina sorc have some kind of defense.

Panda244

Seraphyel wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

I'm saying no because if you want to use a damage shield, use Bone Shield, I've met two DK healers in all my time of ESO and they said they only use Igneous for the 6s heal buff, there isn't any reason to use it as an actual damage shield, it only protects your allies from one attack.

Now you want to scale it off of Magicka, which makes sense. But. If you scaled it off of magicka people would QQ and ask for DKs to be nerfed because it'd make them that much harder to kill in PvP. As for DK healers being a thing, they don't have BoL, any class can heal a vet dungeon but you need a strong burst heal for anything above that. Which is why DKs aren't really considered healers, they make great utility heals, because they can spam Igneous, Healing Springs, Bone Shield, and Magma Armor, for the lulz damage shields. But as far as a legit endgame healer goes it just isn't viable, because they don't have any good class heals. The resto-tree heals only get you so far.

You see that your statement is exactly what I am saying?

If they would make this shield valid for DK healers (only), we could be competitive. Absorbing 5k damage is better than healing for 5k - and we get the buff, too.

Every skill has two morphs, so I don't see the reason for not giving it one healer (Magicka) and one DPS / Tank morph.

As you said, DK healers are rare and that's one reason for that. I love to play DK healer and I really would like to see some developer love with some quality of life changes - Igneous Shield with Magicka scaling would be a huge bump.

If they changed the other morph to be viable then sure, but the entire reason I went with Igneous was because the shield is bigger and gives me a buff to heals for a few seconds. Now... In all honesty, I wouldn't care if they scaled it off Magicka because it would make me harder to kill in PvP. But it would also be blatantly OP in PvP, DKs are hard enough to kill already and adding another 10-15% of damage shield is cray cray.

Xsorus

No, it should scale off health, along with every other shield in the game...so you don't get silliness like Sorc shields right now.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

Are you a DK healer? No?

I am talking solely about healing DKs. And it would be a quality of life change. As I said, they can decrease the scaling rate or something like that, but it seems to be the only DK ability that's suited for healers and some DK tanks & DPS don't want it to be changed? I don't get it. There are a dozen others ability only suiting for DK tanks and DDs, why shouldn't be there at least one skill for DK healers that's really good?

I have a DK Healer and I even say no. It's fine scaling off Health as it is. The reason DK Healers use it isn't for it's OMGWTFBBQ Shield, it's for the +33% Healing done for 7 sec (increased from 6 sec in 1.6.1). The Shield portion, even scaling off Health, is quite adequate.

Jaerlach

Seraphyel wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

I'm saying no because if you want to use a damage shield, use Bone Shield, I've met two DK healers in all my time of ESO and they said they only use Igneous for the 6s heal buff, there isn't any reason to use it as an actual damage shield, it only protects your allies from one attack.

Now you want to scale it off of Magicka, which makes sense. But. If you scaled it off of magicka people would QQ and ask for DKs to be nerfed because it'd make them that much harder to kill in PvP. As for DK healers being a thing, they don't have BoL, any class can heal a vet dungeon but you need a strong burst heal for anything above that. Which is why DKs aren't really considered healers, they make great utility heals, because they can spam Igneous, Healing Springs, Bone Shield, and Magma Armor, for the lulz damage shields. But as far as a legit endgame healer goes it just isn't viable, because they don't have any good class heals. The resto-tree heals only get you so far.

You see that your statement is exactly what I am saying?

If they would make this shield valid for DK healers (only), we could be competitive. Absorbing 5k damage is better than healing for 5k - and we get the buff, too.

Every skill has two morphs, so I don't see the reason for not giving it one healer (Magicka) and one DPS / Tank morph.

As you said, DK healers are rare and that's one reason for that. I love to play DK healer and I really would like to see some developer love with some quality of life changes - Igneous Shield with Magicka scaling would be a huge bump.

The heal buff is why all dks value this skill. Tanks, pvpers, etc.

fragmented isn't just bad, it's affect isn't wanted. We want igneous for green dragon blood.

Xeniph

Imo, ALL shields should scale off Health. With maybe one exception, the LA shield, which I can see scaling off max Magicka.

I see no reason at all to promote shield stacking, rewarding folks who decide to go full blown class cannon any more than they already are.

In fact, a change like this could go a long way to bringing shields in-line for PvP. If players want to have survivability, they should have to sacrifice dps stats to achieve it.

Just my two cents.

Orchish

As DK tank i must say no to this.

Darkintellect

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

No, it should scale off health, along with every other shield in the game...so you don't get silliness like Sorc shields right now.

You are aware that Restro staff damage shield scales off of Magicka and Spell Power. As well as other class damage shields. Sorcerer shield works off Magicka and Spell power as does Harness Magicka shield. Sun Shield and Bone Shield are flat rate % values and are not altered with stats. The only ones that use Health are Barrier and Obsidian Shield.

If PVP is an issue, allow the coefficient to scale on a separate value from PVE. Allow players and NPC's to crit through damage shields and increase the mana cost.

Seraphyel

DeLindsay wrote: »

I have a DK Healer and I even say no. It's fine scaling off Health as it is. The reason DK Healers use it isn't for it's OMGWTFBBQ Shield, it's for the +33% Healing done for 7 sec (increased from 6 sec in 1.6.1). The Shield portion, even scaling off Health, is quite adequate.

The same issue here.

The healing buff is new for that skill, too. They changed it, to... make DK healers more viable? So why can't they adjust some things and give it a better scaling?

It shouldn't be buffed, it should be adjusted. That's what I want.

I think it's just lame when DPS & Tank DKs don't want it to be changed because it could effect their still truely efficient playstyle - and on the other hand DK healers still have a rocky time. There could be a way for EVERY DK spec when it would scale off of highest stats.

And I am sure, Igneous Shield wasn't meant to be the morph for better DK survivability for tanks or DPS.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

The same issue here.

The healing buff is new for that skill, too. They changed it, to... make DK healers more viable? So why can't they adjust some things and give it a better scaling?

It shouldn't be buffed, it should be adjusted. That's what I want.

I think it's just lame when DPS & Tank DKs don't want it to be changed because it could effect their still truely efficient playstyle - and on the other hand DK healers still have a rocky time. There could be a way for EVERY DK spec when it would scale off of highest stats.

And I am sure, Igneous Shield wasn't meant to be the morph for better DK survivability for tanks or DPS.

The only thing they did in 1.6.1 is add 1 second to the Healing done duration. Bear in mind, my Main is a VR14 NB who's MS is Healing and Tanking. I use Bone Shield as an alternative and can say I'd give my left [snip] to have Igneous Shield instead. I do think ZoS realized this and that's why they added 8% Healing done to Bone Surge in 1.6.1. The other problem with Bone Shield is that someone has to hit X in order for it to even work, Igneous just works.

As for what Igneous Shield morph was intended for who knows. It works well for all Roles as it is now. The issue with scaling this off Magicka instead of Health is the same problem we're seeing on PTS right now and that's Players stacking insane volumes of Magicka and spamming Shields all day long in Cyro. Why would ZoS exacerbate that issue by making the Shield portion of it even stronger? Besides the problem is that this ability effects more than just you versus abilities like Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward that only effect the Caster. In the end I think the base ability and this morph are right where they should be.

Seraphyel

As I said, adjustments needed. I don't want a flat increase to be an OP skill.

I don't see any reason why Barrier (Alliance) scales of Magicka, Sorc shields scale of Magicka etc. and only Igneous doesn't. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

I know shield stacking is a problem and I know the 30% healing buff is AWESOME but still... the scaling of Igneous is hard to manage. I tested it out, with full light and healing gear and every point in health,it goes up from 1600 to 2800 - that's NOTHING to be honest for 62 points of health spent.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

I don't see any reason why Barrier (Alliance) scales of Magicka, Sorc shields scale of Magicka etc. and only Igneous doesn't. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

Bone Shield scales off Health. Sun Shield (Templar) I believe also scales off Health. I don't know where my opinion lies about what Shields should scale off of, I just don't think Igneous Shield needs any tweaking atm, personally.

EDIT: I do however believe that Sorcs' Hardened Ward should scale off Health like DK and Templar Shields do. That's my only thought on scaling.

Darkintellect

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I don't see any reason why Barrier (Alliance) scales of Magicka, Sorc shields scale of Magicka etc. and only Igneous doesn't. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

Bone Shield scales off Health. Sun Shield (Templar) I believe also scales off Health. I don't know where my opinion lies about what Shields should scale off of, I just don't think Igneous Shield needs any tweaking atm, personally.

EDIT: I do however believe that Sorcs' Hardened Ward should scale off Health like DK and Templar Shields do. That's my only thought on scaling.

The only shields that scale off of health are Obsidian line and Barrier with regard to numeral values. This is based on coefficients. Harness Magicka, Sorcerer Ward and Resto staff shield all scale off Magicka and spell power.

However, this signifies that shields can and should be designed off magicka, at the very least a morph with this allowance.

This issue is about the role of a healer. Templars have varying heals, NB has various powerful heal over times, dragonknight should have a comparable damage shield. Currently Nightblade and Templar variants far outweigh the potency of use with regard to the Dragonknight and the Sorcerer needs it's own variation to lend a hand into the healing platform.

That's what this thread is about.