1.6 Is An Extremely Good Patch, Best Balance Update Ever

sabresandiego_ESO

Most of what has been written here on the forums is about bugs, suggestions and complaints. I want to talk about what makes 1.6 the best update ever for this game, and by a huge margin. The focus of my comments will be on PVP, since I am primarily a PVP player.

-The game is better balanced than ever. For almost the entire history of ESO, wearing light armor and using a resto staff with one other weapon of your choice has been the best build in PVP for every class. Now, for the first time ever, all armor choices have benefits and drawbacks, and all weapon types are viable. Class balance is outstanding, and every class brings great things to the table.

-The champion system is fun, and allows long term semi vertical and sideways progression that will keep players interested, as long as they dont view it as some kind of grind.

-Zerg blobs are less effective because of magicka detonation and no AOE caps. A significant improvement over live.

-The change to impen and increased damage to everyone who is not in heavy armor has made the game tremendously more exciting. Burst damage is finally ending fights which used to be extremely boring stalemates. Pre 1.6 people could live forever with shield stacking and endless resources due to maxed out regens. Now, you WILL run out of resources, especially stamina, if you try to defend forever especially against multiple opponents. The game is far more fun to play.

-Similar to the last point I made, the faster time to kill for non heavy armor wearers has made the game significantly more exciting. Reaction speed and skill are now far more important in the game. If you miss that dodge roll, that block, or that recasting of your damage shield, you will be bursted down and explode very quickly. This greatly rewards skill, timing, and reaction speed far more than 1.5 where everyone could basically live forever.

-Consolodating all buffs into categories, and giving every area a piece of a pie (champion system, set bonuses, attributes, enchants, skills, etc) has allowed the devs to balance the game so much better than it was. They know exactly how strong a min maxed character can become, and exactly how strong a hybrid can become. This allows for far better balance than ever before, even without softcaps. From my testing so far, both min maxed characters and hybrids are viable in high end pvp.

-Different playstyles have different advantages and disadvantages. This game truly does allow people to play how they want... to an extent. Yes, you need either damage shields, heals, or a heavy armor tank build to be able to survive in pvp, but thats a good thing. You also need some kind of damage output to kill in pvp. There is still a great deal of variety in builds, classes, and skills available.

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

-Sabre Ali

Lionxoft

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

sabresandiego_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

I suggested that conjured ward, annulment, obsidian shield, steadfast ward, and other shields should scale off of something other than magicka, just to prevent min-max magicka builds from having both the best offense and best defense and encouraging a little more build diversity. After more testing though, the way it is now isn't really that bad, because once you get through the shields you can almost one shot these min maxers.

Berinima

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-The game is better balanced than ever.

I lol'ed and stopped reading.

Gorthax

I am not to sure on this overall balance you speak of in this patch lol I have yet to see it. Everyone keeps talking "sorcs OP in 1.6" and I have YET to see that lol OP compared to people who cant copy their characters, sure. OP to those who DID copy their character? oh god no, far from. Heck I even think that NBs got better (somewhat?) in this patch while sorcs just seem to fall short....again.

Who knows though, maybe they will actually pay attention to sorcs instead of giving us something we never wanted due to [snip] AI

EDIT: OP please tell me what sorcs bring to the table with 1.6 and please dont say pets lol because pets still s!_!ck. Are they better than live? Oh yea. The horrible A.I. they have and faulty commands makes them a non viable choice. Couple that with taking up two slots to use them and you have a "no thank you I will choose this other sucky skill instead" situation

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

sabresandiego_ESO

Berinima wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-The game is better balanced than ever.

I lol'ed and stopped reading.

Join the herd of complainers. I for one have actually been testing various builds in PVP, with dozens of other people, and seeing all different types of builds and classes being extremely effective. Fact is, balance is significantly better than ever.

Lionxoft

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

I suggested that conjured ward, annulment, obsidian shield, steadfast ward, and other shields should scale off of something other than magicka, just to prevent min-max magicka builds from having both the best offense and best defense and encouraging a little more build diversity. After more testing though, the way it is now isn't really that bad, because once you get through the shields you can almost one shot these min maxers.

Yeah, I figured that a Sorc would want the best offense mixed with the best defense lumped into one stat pool.

sabresandiego_ESO

Gorthax wrote: »

I am not to sure on this overall balance you speak of in this patch lol I have yet to see it. Everyone keeps talking "sorcs OP in 1.6" and I have YET to see that lol OP compared to people who cant copy their characters, sure. OP to those who DID copy their character? oh god no, far from. Heck I even think that NBs got better (somewhat?) in this patch while sorcs just seem to fall short....again.

Who knows though, maybe they will actually pay attention to sorcs instead of giving us something we never wanted due to r3tarded AI

EDIT: OP please tell me what sorcs bring to the table with 1.6 and please dont say pets lol because pets still s!_!ck. Are they better than live? Oh yea. The horrible A.I. they have and faulty commands makes them a non viable choice. Couple that with taking up two slots to use them and you have a "no thank you I will choose this other sucky skill instead" situation

If you think sorcs are weak in 1.6, you arent using a good build. Sorcs are extremely competitive in 1.6, as is every other class. No class is weak, best balance Ive ever seen in an MMO with such a wide variety of skills choices and builds.

Berinima

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Join the herd of complainers. I for one have actually been testing various builds in PVP, with dozens of other people, and seeing all different types of builds and classes being extremely effective. Fact is, balance is significantly better than ever.

Me too and I have to disagree.

Gorthax

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I am not to sure on this overall balance you speak of in this patch lol I have yet to see it. Everyone keeps talking "sorcs OP in 1.6" and I have YET to see that lol OP compared to people who cant copy their characters, sure. OP to those who DID copy their character? oh god no, far from. Heck I even think that NBs got better (somewhat?) in this patch while sorcs just seem to fall short....again.

Who knows though, maybe they will actually pay attention to sorcs instead of giving us something we never wanted due to r3tarded AI

EDIT: OP please tell me what sorcs bring to the table with 1.6 and please dont say pets lol because pets still s!_!ck. Are they better than live? Oh yea. The horrible A.I. they have and faulty commands makes them a non viable choice. Couple that with taking up two slots to use them and you have a "no thank you I will choose this other sucky skill instead" situation

If you think sorcs are weak in 1.6, you arent using a good build. Sorcs are extremely competitive in 1.6, as is every other class. No class is weak, best balance Ive ever seen in an MMO with such a wide variety of skills choices and builds.

you new to this game? I have tried everything with my sorc ( been playing him since early access) and have yet to find something that is viable(in 1.6). Go on, tell me one build that isnt the crushing shock rotation build. That is still the go to build sadly. 1.6 didnt open up nothing for sorcs build wise. Surge was replaced with entropy. Replacing one skill I would not call build diversity.

I await your response my good friend (seriously not being hostile so dont read these words with that tone in mind as most do on these forums)

EDIT: Oh yea, we still shield stack. So that doesnt change at all when you go from live to pts. Also would like to point out that there is NO pvp going on in cyrodil. Nothing like in live as most people are dueling. So of course you dont see the zerg balls on pts :P

Wahee

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Berinima wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-The game is better balanced than ever.

I lol'ed and stopped reading.

Join the herd of complainers. I for one have actually been testing various builds in PVP, with dozens of other people, and seeing all different types of builds and classes being extremely effective. Fact is, balance is significantly better than ever.

If anyone else had posted this I would be skeptical, but I've personally seen Sabre out dueling for hours. How many people complaining about balance have done a single duel on PTS? I've tried a ton of NB setups and found that I can actually duel competitively on a stamina build. That it is something I never would have tried in 1.5. I've seen a lot of 2H builds, hybrid builds, and stam builds all winning duels. Much more variety than on live.

And agree on the min/max shield builds pumping magicka. Defense should come at the cost of offense.

Kaghei

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0,

This, i feed my horses, collect mail, thats really it.

Joy_Division

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

Dislike because light armored magicka users are the ones most likely to use and need conjured ward. Also not sure how a shield can be cosnidered a major buff since it actually buffs nothing - your defenses are still the same (compare to something like the DK Volatile Armor for example).

sabresandiego_ESO

Gorthrax, I use a hybrid sorc build and have used various weapon combinations from 2h and resto, 2h and destro, 2h and bow, 2h and 1h+shield, bow and resto, 1h+shield and resto, etc...

I was able to compete successfully in pvp with all of these builds, and 90% of the time did not use crushing shock. Yes, crushing shock builds are still incredibly powerful in 1.6 especially on sorcs that min-max all magicka, but many other builds are viable too.

Gorthax

Wahee wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Berinima wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-The game is better balanced than ever.

I lol'ed and stopped reading.

Join the herd of complainers. I for one have actually been testing various builds in PVP, with dozens of other people, and seeing all different types of builds and classes being extremely effective. Fact is, balance is significantly better than ever.

If anyone else had posted this I would be skeptical, but I've personally seen Sabre out dueling for hours. How many people complaining about balance have done a single duel on PTS? I've tried a ton of NB setups and found that I can actually duel competitively on a stamina build. That it is something I never would have tried in 1.5. I've seen a lot of 2H builds, hybrid builds, and stam builds all winning duels. Much more variety than on live.

And agree on the min/max shield builds pumping magicka. Defense should come at the cost of offense.

See here is the thing, I HAVE tested magicka builds for my sorc. Keyword -->MAGICKA<-- as stamina is and never will be something I consider. I never once picked up sword and shield and proceeded to be a blockcaster hiding behind a shield in pvp. Not my thing. I have tried a crap ton of builds on PTS 1.6 and not one of them was even close to competitive. Were they good? Define good, because I was having a hard time trying to find something that worked. In the end the crushing shock build was STILL the go to for sorcs.

Now stamina users got a HUGE opening when it came to build diversity. In fact stamina outshines magicka all day long now. Am I ok with this? oh yea. Magicka should have its place though, and currently a magicka sorc (my opinion here) just doesnt cut it.

Been testing stuff since PTS came out just so you know. Stopped recently as it just got frustrating. Can my build win? Yea if I am going up against a template character and not a copy character. (found this out after a few hours of dueling that majority of people I was dueling werent even actual characters and just templates....talk about ego crush lol )

Also keep in mind, snipe hitting for 22k? Crit charge hitting for 18k+ EVERY charge?? Those are just a couple things to take note of. If that is balance then this game is the most balanced ever :P

Sure I can shield stack through it but I will run out before someone else does just trying to keep shields up. Without access to different pieces of gear on the PTS, one can not properly test it unless they have had every piece of gear stashed away just for testing on new updates like this.

Did you? I sure didnt. I found one gear set I loved and wanted to build around and did so. So without access to the other sets on PTS, I will never know what a sorc is and isnt capable of. So I am literally crap out of luck until this goes live. As it sits right now, my sorc is not capable of squat unless I want to be stuck with the same ol cookie cutter sorc build of crushing shock.

ALWAYS open to suggestions though. If someone has some amazing insight as to how sorcs are now good in 1.6 I would LOVE to hear it seriously!!

Lionxoft

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

Dislike because light armored magicka users are the ones most likely to use and need conjured ward. Also not sure how a shield can be cosnidered a major buff since it actually buffs nothing - your defenses are still the same (compare to something like the DK Volatile Armor for example).

I was referring to a way to stop shield stacking. I thought I made that pretty clear but if it wasn't then apologies.

sabresandiego_ESO

Shield stacking is an important part of the game. It doesn't need to be stopped, just like dodge rolling, blocking, and healing dont need to be stopped. Shield stacking may be scaling slightly too high for min-maxed magicka builds, thats about it. This can be fixed in multiple ways, but its not a gigantic issue (although I did make a thread about it)

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Most of what has been written here on the forums is about bugs, suggestions and complaints. I want to talk about what makes 1.6 the best update ever for this game, and by a huge margin. The focus of my comments will be on PVP, since I am primarily a PVP player.

-The game is better balanced than ever. For almost the entire history of ESO, wearing light armor and using a resto staff with one other weapon of your choice has been the best build in PVP for every class. Now, for the first time ever, all armor choices have benefits and drawbacks, and all weapon types are viable. Class balance is outstanding, and every class brings great things to the table.

-The champion system is fun, and allows long term semi vertical and sideways progression that will keep players interested, as long as they dont view it as some kind of grind.

-Zerg blobs are less effective because of magicka detonation and no AOE caps. A significant improvement over live.

-The change to impen and increased damage to everyone who is not in heavy armor has made the game tremendously more exciting. Burst damage is finally ending fights which used to be extremely boring stalemates. Pre 1.6 people could live forever with shield stacking and endless resources due to maxed out regens. Now, you WILL run out of resources, especially stamina, if you try to defend forever especially against multiple opponents. The game is far more fun to play.

-Similar to the last point I made, the faster time to kill for non heavy armor wearers has made the game significantly more exciting. Reaction speed and skill are now far more important in the game. If you miss that dodge roll, that block, or that recasting of your damage shield, you will be bursted down and explode very quickly. This greatly rewards skill, timing, and reaction speed far more than 1.5 where everyone could basically live forever.

-Consolodating all buffs into categories, and giving every area a piece of a pie (champion system, set bonuses, attributes, enchants, skills, etc) has allowed the devs to balance the game so much better than it was. They know exactly how strong a min maxed character can become, and exactly how strong a hybrid can become. This allows for far better balance than ever before, even without softcaps. From my testing so far, both min maxed characters and hybrids are viable in high end pvp.

-Different playstyles have different advantages and disadvantages. This game truly does allow people to play how they want... to an extent. Yes, you need either damage shields, heals, or a heavy armor tank build to be able to survive in pvp, but thats a good thing. You also need some kind of damage output to kill in pvp. There is still a great deal of variety in builds, classes, and skills available.

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

-Sabre Ali

I couldnt agree more. this is exactly how I feel. there are a lot of tweaks needed but the changes are looking really good. cant please everyone. the same people who complain about every fotm build and strategy will come on and complain about anything that effects their build to. most of us know to take complaints with a grain of salt.
anyone who has not gone on the pts and truly tested out lots of things, not just compare your fotm build to the new system, please refrain from judging until you do.

The only reason I will play live is to start preparing for my new builds, after 5 days I never want to go back.

also, in my opinion
the changes to health scaling helps more build variety; the changes to the scaling of set bonuses and jewelry bonuses paired with crit resist changes will also add more viable variety.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

In my opinion, it would not be unreasonable if all shields that scale, scale off of health.

Gyudan

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shield stacking is [...] a gigantic issue

I'm sure @DDuke agrees 100% with this statement. Thanks @sabresandiego_ESO

Gorthax

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Most of what has been written here on the forums is about bugs, suggestions and complaints. I want to talk about what makes 1.6 the best update ever for this game, and by a huge margin. The focus of my comments will be on PVP, since I am primarily a PVP player.

-The game is better balanced than ever. For almost the entire history of ESO, wearing light armor and using a resto staff with one other weapon of your choice has been the best build in PVP for every class. Now, for the first time ever, all armor choices have benefits and drawbacks, and all weapon types are viable. Class balance is outstanding, and every class brings great things to the table.

-The champion system is fun, and allows long term semi vertical and sideways progression that will keep players interested, as long as they dont view it as some kind of grind.

-Zerg blobs are less effective because of magicka detonation and no AOE caps. A significant improvement over live.

-The change to impen and increased damage to everyone who is not in heavy armor has made the game tremendously more exciting. Burst damage is finally ending fights which used to be extremely boring stalemates. Pre 1.6 people could live forever with shield stacking and endless resources due to maxed out regens. Now, you WILL run out of resources, especially stamina, if you try to defend forever especially against multiple opponents. The game is far more fun to play.

-Similar to the last point I made, the faster time to kill for non heavy armor wearers has made the game significantly more exciting. Reaction speed and skill are now far more important in the game. If you miss that dodge roll, that block, or that recasting of your damage shield, you will be bursted down and explode very quickly. This greatly rewards skill, timing, and reaction speed far more than 1.5 where everyone could basically live forever.

-Consolodating all buffs into categories, and giving every area a piece of a pie (champion system, set bonuses, attributes, enchants, skills, etc) has allowed the devs to balance the game so much better than it was. They know exactly how strong a min maxed character can become, and exactly how strong a hybrid can become. This allows for far better balance than ever before, even without softcaps. From my testing so far, both min maxed characters and hybrids are viable in high end pvp.

-Different playstyles have different advantages and disadvantages. This game truly does allow people to play how they want... to an extent. Yes, you need either damage shields, heals, or a heavy armor tank build to be able to survive in pvp, but thats a good thing. You also need some kind of damage output to kill in pvp. There is still a great deal of variety in builds, classes, and skills available.

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

-Sabre Ali

I couldnt agree more. this is exactly how I feel. there are a lot of tweaks needed but the changes are looking really good. cant please everyone. the same people who complain about every fotm build and strategy will come on and complain about anything that effects their build to. most of us know to take complaints with a grain of salt.
anyone who has not gone on the pts and truly tested out lots of things, not just compare your fotm build to the new system, please refrain from judging until you do.

The only reason I will play live is to start preparing for my new builds, after 5 days I never want to go back.

also, in my opinion
the changes to health scaling helps more build variety; the changes to the scaling of set bonuses and jewelry bonuses paired with crit resist changes will also add more viable variety.

Agree to an extent. Sadly nothing can be truly tested by people if they dont have access to said gear sets to try different variations. With that being said nothing will truly be tested UNTIL it goes live. I know because I have spent countless hours messing around on PTS only to come up empty handed because I dont have access to said gear. So all my testing is worth jack until it is live.

KerinKor

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

So to summarise your view: this is a great update for PVPers even if it destroys totally a lot of the PVE game.

Amirite?

Night-claw

1.6 DK weakest class.

sabresandiego_ESO

KerinKor wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

So to summarise your view: this is a great update for PVPers even if it destroys totally a lot of the PVE game.

Amirite?

I talk about pvp, because thats mostly what Ive tested. The PVE Ive done has been fantastic. I love it.

DDuke

KerinKor wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

This patch is so good, I can't even log back into live anymore. This is like ESO 2.0, a whole new game with better balance and much more variety. I will continue to provide suggestions and feedback here on the forums, but I just wanted to write this to describe my feelings towards this patch, as well as many of my friends. See you on the PTS

So to summarise your view: this is a great update for PVPers even if it destroys totally a lot of the PVE game.

Amirite?

I'm fairly certain it's going to destroy PvP as well, if these shield stacking issues aren't corrected.

Same with 2H becoming a mandatory for every stamina build (Momentum=20% dmg for all physical skills).

Lionxoft

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shield stacking is an important part of the game. It doesn't need to be stopped, just like dodge rolling, blocking, and healing dont need to be stopped. Shield stacking may be scaling slightly too high for min-maxed magicka builds, thats about it. This can be fixed in multiple ways, but its not a gigantic issue (although I did make a thread about it)

Slightly too high?


*From someone who rarely memes*

Berinima

So you are loving every part of the patch then? Wow, that's a true relief. So far I was honestly convinced it's really bad!

McDoogs

Stacking magicka scaling shields is a big balancing issue. I am happy at how the current 1.5 meta blob combat seems to have been addressed however.

sabresandiego_ESO

They can't nerf damage shields directly, because they are balanced for non min maxed builds, like hybrids. Its a tough situation. They do scale a bit high high for people who dump everything into magicka, but it really is not as huge of an issue as I originally thought. Ive been testing a lot and you can get through the shields, but its not easy. Running immovable on top of the shields is the bigger balance issue, and that will be addressed in tomorrows patch.

xaraan

eh, this post is a bit too overly positive

telling someone they do everything right won't get the wrong stuff fixed and if you honestly think there is nothing wrong then you need to test a bigger variety of things maybe? idk

I do agree with a lot of the specifics of your post, just not that overly general statement. Things are definitely not balanced in the game, but they did make some good improvements in some areas.

Glory

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Would you think it would be a balanced update if Hardened Ward and other shields scaled off of health instead of magicka (Minus obsidian/sun)? Also if those shields were considered major buffs?

I suggested that conjured ward, annulment, obsidian shield, steadfast ward, and other shields should scale off of something other than magicka, just to prevent min-max magicka builds from having both the best offense and best defense and encouraging a little more build diversity. After more testing though, the way it is now isn't really that bad, because once you get through the shields you can almost one shot these min maxers.

This is exactly the thought process I went through. To invest in damage shields means your other defenses will be poor, and as a sorcerer full magicka I've been blown up even more quickly in 1.6 even with my damage shields.

To those who think that damage shields should scale off health: this would just make health stackers even more dangerous/tanky? And remove any way for alight armor wearer to survive whatsoever... It should scale off of magicka, because you're sacrificing 1) other resources to get magicka to use damage shields, 2) other means of survivability such as armor or evasion, 3) skill bar slots that could otherwise be used for skills.

Great read Sabre, great read.