B2P (freemium) is gonna definitely destroy the game.

RazielSR

I’ve been watching videos from PTS, been reading a lot of topics here and in reddit.
Clearly, ZOS is nerfing our chars just to make you grind CP. They are just “artificially” making you play the same content again and again and again. That is incredibly wrong and a joke imho.

Vet Ranks are not gonna disappear, at least not soon, maybe not even this year.
Justice systems seem quite a good addition, but I think it’s really strange to kill an npc or get into a house and kill the whole place and then seeing that same npc respawning. I guess is gonna work like that? If not, you would see other players fighting the air in the same spot. Is that immersion for you people? I’m not saying it’s bad, but…

Letting this apart, the game is clearly (yes, as clear as when me and a lot of people said here the game was going f2p and people just told us we were trolls and some of them later just said I’m sorry) the game is clearly going to be p2w step by step. First months in console will be happy, but later this year, the game will become just another consolized game and will lose the small amount of TES once had. The whole b2p/freemium thing is a disaster and it won’t work.
Some TES fans that didn’t want to pay monthly, will buy the box and will be here until they realize this is not really a TES game. Why? Because ZOS once decided to leave apart the whole feedback from TES fans and just convert this game another WOW clone.

The game was going to be a mix between TES and mmo. It failed being a true MMO, and failed but not that much in being a true TES game. Now they want to go more for the MMO part and forget the TES part.

That is what you do when you don’t know what you are doing and you are not feeling comfortable with what you are doing. Money is money, and this game was created from the very beginning just to make money. Hey, I understand is the main reason, problem is when it is the only reason.

Just watching steam charts with 2000 players playing this game and then seeing Skyrim chart and seeing 3 years later around 30.000 people playing everyday, makes you just feel strange about ESO. Just install Skyrim and play again, or Oblivion, or Morrowind…ESO will never have more than a 5% of TES that this games have. It is something unique and impossible to compare. I continue thinking that this game is just milking TES franchise. Of course, everybody is in the same boat, even Pete, and I understand. I would do the same. I would like to know what Todd think about all this project anyway.

Now some typical posts like “troll”, “can I have your stuff”, etc, etc will appear and I will be the devil again, just like when I posted some other things happening later. But it doesn’t matter, I will continue subbed until b2p thing. Then maybe I will play not being subbed and I will see what happen until fall this year. But, clearly, the game is gonna be a shadow of what it was supposed to be.
The only positive thing for me is that thanks to ESO, a lot more people will want TES VI.
So please Beth, make this whole thing to stop.

AlexDougherty

B2P is going to happen, nothing will change that, and I sincerely hope they don't dilute the lore any further.

superquadockyb14_ESO

Well, given what you've shown, why do you think they are getting rid of the subscription cost? As far as I can tell, the only people who invest any extended amount of time in this game have been here since launch. (they all have that goofy robot pet thingy).

It couldn't hurt to make the game more accessible. Look how well it works for something like Guild Wars.

And I don't mind the ability to pay real money for things in game. Why? Because the content IS worth it. It allows a bit more leeway with how developers introduce content and income from lots of fans who want that special mount or pet.

The game is just fine really. Its just not as FUN as it could be given the lapse in player base and lack of FUN items to own.

The current direction they are going in will have no negative effect except toward the already well established players who blitzed through all the current content.

This game was not designed with them in mind. This is not a hardcore MMO. This is a MMO-Lite.

Sallington

superquadockyb14_ESO wrote: »

Well, given what you've shown, why do you think they are getting rid of the subscription cost? As far as I can tell, the only people who invest any extended amount of time in this game have been here since launch. (they all have that goofy robot pet thingy).

It couldn't hurt to make the game more accessible. Look how well it works for something like Guild Wars.

And I don't mind the ability to pay real money for things in game. Why? Because the content IS worth it. It allows a bit more leeway with how developers introduce content and income from lots of fans who want that special mount or pet.

The game is just fine really. Its just not as FUN as it could be given the lapse in player base and lack of FUN items to own.

The current direction they are going in will have no negative effect except toward the already well established players who blitzed through all the current content.

This game was not designed with them in mind. This is not a hardcore MMO. This is a MMO-Lite.

Bolded the important part.

I didn't rush through content, but am at the "end game". VR14 with 90% of my interest in PvP. Nothing about this transition is a positive in my opinion.

The new strategy for making money is now for people to buy the box, then have them spend as much money as possible, as quickly as possible. Eng game longevity isn't even on the radar, that's not a priority anymore. They don't need to keep people wanting to continue subscriptions. "You bought the box and spent some money on costumes? Thanks, we got what we needed out of you."

What sucks the most is that the devs had such an awesome vision for the game, and it's just going to turn into a shell of itself in a couple years.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I dont even have a VR14 character and Ive done everything but craglorn as far as pve questing. Saying I rushed seems kind of silly since I have been playing since launch and dont even have a max level character yet.

someuser

superquadockyb14_ESO wrote: »

Well, given what you've shown, why do you think they are getting rid of the subscription cost? As far as I can tell, the only people who invest any extended amount of time in this game have been here since launch. (they all have that goofy robot pet thingy).

It couldn't hurt to make the game more accessible. Look how well it works for something like Guild Wars.

And I don't mind the ability to pay real money for things in game. Why? Because the content IS worth it. It allows a bit more leeway with how developers introduce content and income from lots of fans who want that special mount or pet.

The game is just fine really. Its just not as FUN as it could be given the lapse in player base and lack of FUN items to own.

I agree for the most part.

superquadockyb14_ESO wrote: »

The current direction they are going in will have no negative effect except toward the already well established players who blitzed through all the current content.

This game was not designed with them in mind. This is not a hardcore MMO. This is a MMO-Lite.

This is where I disagree. No content updates (Zenimax calls added functionality and bug fixes "content updates") for 6+ months is a HUGE negative effect.

What about removing VR levels (one of the most hated aspects of this game)?

What about adding the PvP part to the Justice System?

What about all that other stuff the Devs were talking about in all those ESO live updates?

All gone. And no, it wasn't because ESO - PC was failing (there is no evidence for or against) it was to suit their console platform. I'm going to guess Zenimax chose to bet that the console market is going to more than make up for any loses from this new payment model change as well as make more money VS staying the current course of a smaller but still profitable PC sub based game.


Which is all good and well for Zenimax and all the people who benefit from their profits (employees and investors). But it sucks for me as I could not care less about console versions. While I do own all the consoles (for the kids) I prefer the PC with its superior performance and graphics. As far as Zenimax is concerned, I only care to the extend that my investment promotes and further develops the kind of games I like to play.

I'm holding out hope that maybe, once the consoles are bringing in the money, the release of DLCs and expansion packs will become more common then once every 6 + months.

I'm a casual gamer (highest level toon is VR5 and I've been here since pre-release) and I am not interested in burning through content. However, I think there is still a lot of work to be done on the core of this game. Finish the CS implementation, continue expanding on the JS, look into giving more functionality to the UI, do some re-working / tweaking of the economy / crafting systems / loot systems...

But that is all gone for absolute sure for the immediate future... Oh well, atleast it wont cost me a thing till the fall to jump on from time to time.

clocksstoppe

The game is already "destroyed" from ZOS point of view, otherwise they wouldnt have resorted to something as desperate as going b2p. So yeah, like it or not, this very moment is ESO's worst one.

Game is bleeding subs, veteran ranks are still ruining it, and if they launch the game with veteran ranks still in then all their efforts are in vain. The veteran ranks ruin everything.

Sindala

The thing you have to remember while your testing the new patch for them is,
It's not for you.
It's for new console F2P'ers, everything around the Champ system screams 'pointless if your VR5 or above all ready'.

I thought we had been over this before? Your just beta testing the game for console release. If you had a VR5 or above char then you'll notice in the new patch how weak you suddenly are (like back at VR1 point). Can we say "Grind".
It was never intended for you chars thou, it's designed to work with a new char from the ground up (well atleaste after they grind upto lvl 50).

Y'all need to remember now, you are the proverbial 'Elephant in the room' now, the one they wish wasn't here but your paying them cash still like good little sheep so they won't come out and say it.

Pirhana7_ESO

RazielSR wrote: »

I’ve been watching videos from PTS, been reading a lot of topics here and in reddit.
Clearly, ZOS is nerfing our chars just to make you grind CP. They are just “artificially” making you play the same content again and again and again. That is incredibly wrong and a joke imho.

Vet Ranks are not gonna disappear, at least not soon, maybe not even this year.
Justice systems seem quite a good addition, but I think it’s really strange to kill an npc or get into a house and kill the whole place and then seeing that same npc respawning. I guess is gonna work like that? If not, you would see other players fighting the air in the same spot. Is that immersion for you people? I’m not saying it’s bad, but…

Letting this apart, the game is clearly (yes, as clear as when me and a lot of people said here the game was going f2p and people just told us we were trolls and some of them later just said I’m sorry) the game is clearly going to be p2w step by step. First months in console will be happy, but later this year, the game will become just another consolized game and will lose the small amount of TES once had. The whole b2p/freemium thing is a disaster and it won’t work.
Some TES fans that didn’t want to pay monthly, will buy the box and will be here until they realize this is not really a TES game. Why? Because ZOS once decided to leave apart the whole feedback from TES fans and just convert this game another WOW clone.

The game was going to be a mix between TES and mmo. It failed being a true MMO, and failed but not that much in being a true TES game. Now they want to go more for the MMO part and forget the TES part.

That is what you do when you don’t know what you are doing and you are not feeling comfortable with what you are doing. Money is money, and this game was created from the very beginning just to make money. Hey, I understand is the main reason, problem is when it is the only reason.

Just watching steam charts with 2000 players playing this game and then seeing Skyrim chart and seeing 3 years later around 30.000 people playing everyday, makes you just feel strange about ESO. Just install Skyrim and play again, or Oblivion, or Morrowind…ESO will never have more than a 5% of TES that this games have. It is something unique and impossible to compare. I continue thinking that this game is just milking TES franchise. Of course, everybody is in the same boat, even Pete, and I understand. I would do the same. I would like to know what Todd think about all this project anyway.

Now some typical posts like “troll”, “can I have your stuff”, etc, etc will appear and I will be the devil again, just like when I posted some other things happening later. But it doesn’t matter, I will continue subbed until b2p thing. Then maybe I will play not being subbed and I will see what happen until fall this year. But, clearly, the game is gonna be a shadow of what it was supposed to be.
The only positive thing for me is that thanks to ESO, a lot more people will want TES VI.
So please Beth, make this whole thing to stop.

The champion system is there so people can keep improving their characters without hitting that "Im finished wall" You can keep playing your character always keeps getting slightly better. This is something alot people have been asking for in the Cyrodiil endgame.

RazielSR

Sindala wrote: »

The thing you have to remember while your testing the new patch for them is,
It's not for you.
It's for new console F2P'ers, everything around the Champ system screams 'pointless if your VR5 or above all ready'.

I thought we had been over this before? Your just beta testing the game for console release. If you had a VR5 or above char then you'll notice in the new patch how weak you suddenly are (like back at VR1 point). Can we say "Grind".
It was never intended for you chars thou, it's designed to work with a new char from the ground up (well atleaste after they grind upto lvl 50).

Y'all need to remember now, you are the proverbial 'Elephant in the room' now, the one they wish wasn't here but your paying them cash still like good little sheep so they won't come out and say it.

This is a fantastic post and really shows the reality. I can't understand how can be people around here defending zos now.

They are just throwing users like us playing since beta and awaiting the new console users arrival. They don't want us here, they got what they needed from us and we are not useful anymore.

Morshire

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

The champion system is there so people can keep improving their characters without hitting that "Im finished wall" You can keep playing your character always keeps getting slightly better. This is something alot people have been asking for in the Cyrodiil endgame.

So I have to ask you, and not trying to be rude, but have you tried PTS? I did, last night. I am not going to say that all the changes are bad, but they nerfed characters. I am VR9 Temp in LA. I ran around Crag and could hold my own (on the NA server). I decided to try a VR14, same build - to test end game. Got all the gold armor, etc. Death is all I ran into in Crag. Death, and that was with 99 CP as a gift. So I went back, got my VR6 (what I had from when they moved my toons to PTS, and it was worse. Don't be deceived, whoever above said it was not for us was right.
-
It will be great for a new player - presumably, but for anyone who has a high level toon, it is a reset. Call it good or bad, you decide, but nerf they did.

ers101284b14_ESO

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

RazielSR

Morshire wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

The champion system is there so people can keep improving their characters without hitting that "Im finished wall" You can keep playing your character always keeps getting slightly better. This is something alot people have been asking for in the Cyrodiil endgame.

So I have to ask you, and not trying to be rude, but have you tried PTS? I did, last night. I am not going to say that all the changes are bad, but they nerfed characters. I am VR9 Temp in LA. I ran around Crag and could hold my own (on the NA server). I decided to try a VR14, same build - to test end game. Got all the gold armor, etc. Death is all I ran into in Crag. Death, and that was with 99 CP as a gift. So I went back, got my VR6 (what I had from when they moved my toons to PTS, and it was worse. Don't be deceived, whoever above said it was not for us was right.
-
It will be great for a new player - presumably, but for anyone who has a high level toon, it is a reset. Call it good or bad, you decide, but nerf they did.

Exactly, I have one VR14 and now it will be a nerfed char. I rolled a NB past week currently level 22 just to play as an assassin with the new justice system. But seeing how it works (you kill an npc that will respawn for another user) and reading comments about hot it works...it has no immersion. Do you feel the justice system is immersive? Seems a REALLY BAD copy of a TES game.

RazielSR

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

That is true, the whole "new name" (a really childish one) is just to forget the whole ESO past.

OMFG Tamriel Unlimited...If I had imagined all these while I was playing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, then Oblivion and then Skyrim...I would get mad.
Seems like a bad joke.

TAMRIEL UNLIMITED.

Seriously...

Sallington

RazielSR wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

That is true, the whole "new name" (a really childish one) is just to forget the whole ESO past.

OMFG Tamriel Unlimited...If I had imagined all these while I was playing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, then Oblivion and then Skyrim...I would get mad.
Seems like a bad joke.

TAMRIEL UNLIMITED.

Seriously...

I definitely thought the name was a joke at first, or at least a working title.

RazielSR

Sallington wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

That is true, the whole "new name" (a really childish one) is just to forget the whole ESO past.

OMFG Tamriel Unlimited...If I had imagined all these while I was playing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, then Oblivion and then Skyrim...I would get mad.
Seems like a bad joke.

TAMRIEL UNLIMITED.

Seriously...

I definitely thought the name was a joke at first, or at least a working title.

I just can't imagine Todd and TES creators seeing TES brand like this. Very happy if the boss ask, but ask them in private.

OrangeTheCat

Sallington wrote: »

snip

I didn't rush through content, but am at the "end game". VR14 with 90% of my interest in PvP. Nothing about this transition is a positive in my opinion.

snip.

Same with me which is why I cancelled my sub.

Go check out Camelot Unchained. You might like what you see.

Nocturnalis

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

Spiritreaver_ESO

RazielSR wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

That is true, the whole "new name" (a really childish one) is just to forget the whole ESO past.

OMFG Tamriel Unlimited...If I had imagined all these while I was playing Daggerfall, then Morrowind, then Oblivion and then Skyrim...I would get mad.
Seems like a bad joke.

TAMRIEL UNLIMITED.

Seriously...

I definitely thought the name was a joke at first, or at least a working title.

I just can't imagine Todd and TES creators seeing TES brand like this. Very happy if the boss ask, but ask them in private.

As long as Howard and his ilk are getting paid, i doubt they give 2 septims what the game is called. They stopped caring a long time ago imo.

Sallington

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

snip

I didn't rush through content, but am at the "end game". VR14 with 90% of my interest in PvP. Nothing about this transition is a positive in my opinion.

snip.

Same with me which is why I cancelled my sub.

Go check out Camelot Unchained. You might like what you see.

Hah, I've been waiting for that since it was announced

grimjim398

Maybe this will be my last post since I have unsubbed and wiped out all my characters. OP sounds right to me. I don't know about having the characters nerfed since I stopped playing when the B2P announcement came out. But the rebranding of the game seems like a lapse in vision to me; I just don't want to play a game under this new model. It's going to be hard for guilds to build a community when players can come in and out of the game with so little commitment to playing it. Everybody says this is the new direction for gaming, all games free to play; in that case I'll stick to single player stuff. Pretty soon I'll probably be one of those people playing Skyrim again.

Slurg

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

I hadn't thought of it this way but you're right - they didn't lie when they said ESO would close down before it stopped being subscription-based. TU is not ESO, it's a slightly different game, so I guess all those Australians who wanted their money back are out of luck.

ers101284b14_ESO

Slurg wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

@RazielSR‌

The game is already done. Come March 17th ESO will be no more. Tamriel Unlimited will be what players can have. Why do you think they are re-branding it? Because Elder Scrolls Online will cease to exist. So B2P will in fact not destroy ESO because ESO will no longer be available.

I hadn't thought of it this way but you're right - they didn't lie when they said ESO would close down before it stopped being subscription-based. TU is not ESO, it's a slightly different game, so I guess all those Australians who wanted their money back are out of luck.

Yep. ESO is going to die. SO Technically ESO never went F2P or B2P it just died like Warhammer.

Morshire

Well, that will put a lot of people at ease then. ZOS never lied to them at all. They stuck to their guns, shut ESO down! Bam, well now I feel so much better. I played ESO for its' entire lifespan and now get to start the new Tamriel Unlimited with its launch.....perfect. I will sleep soundly tonight.

Slurg

It doesn't really make me feel any better. I wish it did.

I generally try to reserve judgment until I have all the information I need and encourage others to do the same. It's still in PTS, and subject to change, but the game that's based on ESO and is about to be launched as Tamriel Unlimited seems to be lacking a lot at this point.

I hope it's fun to play by the time it's finished.

Dave2836

To quote Ivan Drago in Rocky IV "If he dies, he dies."

I think ESO, I'm still calling it ESO, will do just fine. If the relationship you have with the game is negatively impacting your enjoyment, it's time to move on from the abusive spouse syndrome. When the new model comes in, we don't have to give them any money, there isn't even any pressure to continue playing.

I don't plan on forecasting every decision by ZOS, and I don't have the ability to read minds. I play the game to have fun, and if this boat is heading towards an event horizon, I'll see it to the other side.

Ethona

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

snip

I didn't rush through content, but am at the "end game". VR14 with 90% of my interest in PvP. Nothing about this transition is a positive in my opinion.

snip.

Same with me which is why I cancelled my sub.

Go check out Camelot Unchained. You might like what you see.

LMAO, you mean the game where every video they show off is a bunch of people running around and around this center stone thing trying to kill each other? Yea, I'll pass.

rawne1980b16_ESO

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Same with me which is why I cancelled my sub.

Go check out Camelot Unchained. You might like what you see.

I've been watching that game since they announced it.

A spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot, my favourite MMO of all time, oh yes please.

jeevin

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Same with me which is why I cancelled my sub.

Go check out Camelot Unchained. You might like what you see.

I've been watching that game since they announced it.

A spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot, my favourite MMO of all time, oh yes please.

Yeah I'm cautiously optimistic about Camelot Unchained. I backed it on kickstarter and so far I really like what Mark Jacobs and the team are doing there. Camelot Unchained doesn't have to do a lot to be better at pvp than Eso anyway

Btw wasn't it Zenimax that tried to ride the coattails of DAoC with Eso? lol

rawne1980b16_ESO

jeevin wrote: »

Btw wasn't it Zenimax that tried to ride the coattails of DAoC with Eso? lol

Pretty much.

Matt Firor that works at ZOS also worked on DAoC.

Uth

You clearly have no idea what your talking about. What a waste of time even reading the headline.