Surge in 1.6

ToRelax

@angelyn‌
Awesome post, thank you for spreading it in every thread .

angelyn

ToRelax wrote: »

@angelyn‌
Awesome post, thank you for spreading it in every thread .

LOL, I'm so sorry..I didn't realise that you could post in this specific section. I'm a very patient, happy go lucky person..but I just got tired of all the people saying things like " sorcs just qq over surge" etc

PS love the signature

@ToRelax PSS Will I need to post all my other feedback (say re justice system) in this area too:P? Not all my posts have so much rag..I mean bold text in them. I want the devs to see that I'm really pleased with the items we can steal and thank them for taking the time to come up with such interesting and varied loot.

lebanese87b16_ESO

@angelyn‌ I prefer to have Crit Surge just heal off no more than 6 mobs at a time with AOE. Especially since we're even weaker in light armor now.

angelyn

lebanese87b16_ESO wrote: »

@angelyn‌ I prefer to have Crit Surge just heal off no more than 6 mobs at a time with AOE. Especially since we're even weaker in light armor now.

That's actually the ideal scenario..the dark deal suggestion is more of a "if they won't consider changing crit surge" thing..

Damn..now I have to go and edit all them posts

ToRelax

angelyn wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

@angelyn‌
Awesome post, thank you for spreading it in every thread .

@ToRelax PSS Will I need to post all my other feedback (say re justice system) in this area too:P? Not all my posts have so much rag..I mean bold text in them. I want the devs to see that I'm really pleased with the items we can steal and thank them for taking the time to come up with such interesting and varied loot.

Hehe, I never was on PTS before 1.6 , so I just looked wether there already was a thread specific about surge/sorc heals in any section.
Posted than in "Feedback & Suggestions" because that was exactly what I wanted to give ^^.

angelyn

ToRelax wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

@angelyn‌
Awesome post, thank you for spreading it in every thread .

@ToRelax PSS Will I need to post all my other feedback (say re justice system) in this area too:P? Not all my posts have so much rag..I mean bold text in them. I want the devs to see that I'm really pleased with the items we can steal and thank them for taking the time to come up with such interesting and varied loot.

Hehe, I never was on PTS before 1.6 , so I just looked wether there already was a thread specific about surge/sorc heals in any section.
Posted than in "Feedback & Suggestions" because that was exactly what I wanted to give ^^.

Welll...then..I blame ZOS then for having both a feedback official section and an official thread.

It's definitely not me missing the first one

Nightreaver

Exstazik wrote: »

Since Surge no loger scale with maximum magicka also need to add Major Berserker Buff to surge (base skill).On live surge give ~43% to weapon power(in magicka build) on pts only 25%....nice nerf

Did Surge get nerfed again already? I'm only seeing 20% increase on PTS.

And just because we can never have too many nerfs here's another.

On Live, another essential ability was Flawless Dawnbreaker "Weapon attacks deal 10% additional damage." I foolishly believed the wording was intentional to include staves. But in PTS it has been changed to "Your weapon damage is increased." This means it no longer applies to Staves

Exstazik

Nightreaver wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Since Surge no loger scale with maximum magicka also need to add Major Berserker Buff to surge (base skill).On live surge give ~43% to weapon power(in magicka build) on pts only 25%....nice nerf

Did Surge get nerfed again already? I'm only seeing 20% increase on PTS.

And just because we can never have too many nerfs here's another.

On Live, another essential ability was Flawless Dawnbreaker "Weapon attacks deal 10% additional damage." I foolishly believed the wording was intentional to include staves. But in PTS it has been changed to "Your weapon damage is increased." This means it no longer applies to Staves

On PTS surge give +25% to weapon power compare to ~43% on Live
On Pts Power Surge give +25% to weapon and spell power and Crit Surge give +25% to weapon power+65% heal from crit attacks(1 sec CD)

So the answer-yes.Surge was nerfed to garbage.on PTS For stamina sorc you can use Momentum and for magicka sorc use entropy.

Exstazik

Abilities that cost magicka will now always scale off your magicka, spell damage, and spell critical strike stats.

Where is the scale for Surge???it's ability that cost magicka and it didn't scale with your max magicka.It's scales only with rang of the skill
@ZOS_GinaBruno

NordJitsu

Exstazik wrote: »

Abilities that cost magicka will now always scale off your magicka, spell damage, and spell critical strike stats.

Where is the scale for Surge???it's ability that cost magicka and it didn't scale with your max magicka.It's scales only with rang of the skill
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I like your solution for Surge better. Making all versions give the major berserker buff in addition to the weapon or spell buff makes a lot of sense.

I'll have to change my signature when I get home.

pppontus

NordJitsu wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Abilities that cost magicka will now always scale off your magicka, spell damage, and spell critical strike stats.

Where is the scale for Surge???it's ability that cost magicka and it didn't scale with your max magicka.It's scales only with rang of the skill
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I like your solution for Surge better. Making all versions give the major berserker buff in addition to the weapon or spell buff makes a lot of sense.

I'll have to change my signature when I get home.

Sure. Let's give Sorcs the buffs of aggressive warhorn, crit surge and entropy in one skill!!

That seems balanced.

I have an honest question though, to those who shout so loud about the Surge changes.. you only have a Sorc? Or other classes to (at max level ofc)?

I have a Sorc and I'm really excited about 1.6 since Sorcs have been buffed A LOT! But I feel like maybe some people who only have Sorcs don't see the changes made to all classes in regards to buffs, AOE survivability etc. and thus don't understand that the nerf to Surge is actually not that big of a deal.

If you play Stamina it's still awesome, you're the only class now who can get a major weapon damage buff on demand without going melee or using an ultimate. The only one!

If you play Magicka, you switch Surge for Structured Entropy and it's all good. Forget about Surge as it's not a good skill for you anymore. Move on and adapt, you'll be able to create a whole lot better build now.

Sure, it's a bit stupid the heal can proc from small DOTs. That could perhaps be solved somehow, I get that. But what many don't seem to see is that all classes have been nerfed in terms of AOE survivability, you're not supposed to tank 10 mobs and AOE them down in Light Armor. Plus with the impen changes Crit Surge would be so insanely *** disgustingly OP in PvP that I can't stop myself from laughing hysterically when thinking about it.

Simply put, look at the bigger picture, don't get hung up on a single skill. Also don't expect to get an instant cast skill that gives you 3 Major Buffs including 1 that is only available to 2H otherwise and another that requires an Ultimate to get. That's insane. If you think that's going to happen, just stop.

Nightreaver

pppontus wrote: »

I have a Sorc and I'm really excited about 1.6 since Sorcs have been buffed A LOT! But I feel like maybe some people who only have Sorcs don't see the changes made to all classes in regards to buffs, AOE survivability etc. and thus don't understand that the nerf to Surge is actually not that big of a deal.
If you play Magicka, you switch Surge for Structured Entropy and it's all good. Forget about Surge as it's not a good skill for you anymore. Move on and adapt, you'll be able to create a whole lot better build now.

So first you claim that the nerf to Surge isn't that big a deal but then you follow it by saying that Sorcs with Magicka builds should just forget about Surge, that it's not a good skill for us anymore.
Yes, Entropy makes a nice replacement for Surge. The issue I have is that Surge was one of very few class abilities worth taking up a slot on our ability bar. Now we are being expected to give it up for yet another non-Sorcerer ability. I would just really like to see Sorcerers use actual Sorcerer abilities and not be so dependent on abilities outside our class.
As a leveling Sorcerer, Surge was the ability I most looked forward to acquiring. Now it is completely useless to any Sorcerer leveling a Magicka build. And yet Magicka builds must still assign points to it and level it just letting it take up valuable space on their ability bar if they want the morph.

pppontus wrote: »

Sure, it's a bit stupid the heal can proc from small DOTs. That could perhaps be solved somehow, I get that. But what many don't seem to see is that all classes have been nerfed in terms of AOE survivability, you're not supposed to tank 10 mobs and AOE them down in Light Armor. Plus with the impen changes Crit Surge would be so insanely *** disgustingly OP in PvP that I can't stop myself from laughing hysterically when thinking about it.

The changes to Impen would make Crit Surge actually useful. If it was determined to be OP then as you say, I'm sure that problem could solved. There's a fairly large gap between being completely worthless and OP.

pppontus wrote: »

Simply put, look at the bigger picture, don't get hung up on a single skill. Also don't expect to get an instant cast skill that gives you 3 Major Buffs including 1 that is only available to 2H otherwise and another that requires an Ultimate to get. That's insane. If you think that's going to happen, just stop.

No one expects or even wants 3 major buffs. (not that there would be any real difference between having 3 or just having 2 since one of the three would have no use).
1) Change the base ability to providing Crit Heals only. That would be beneficial to both Stamina and Magicka builds while leveling. As opposed to being completely worthless for Magicka builds.
2) One morph would add Weapon damage while the other adds spell damage.
We aren't asking to give Magicka builds anything more than what Stamina builds already have.

ToRelax

pppontus wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Abilities that cost magicka will now always scale off your magicka, spell damage, and spell critical strike stats.

Where is the scale for Surge???it's ability that cost magicka and it didn't scale with your max magicka.It's scales only with rang of the skill
@ZOS_GinaBruno

I like your solution for Surge better. Making all versions give the major berserker buff in addition to the weapon or spell buff makes a lot of sense.

I'll have to change my signature when I get home.

Sure. Let's give Sorcs the buffs of aggressive warhorn, crit surge and entropy in one skill!!

That seems balanced.

I have an honest question though, to those who shout so loud about the Surge changes.. you only have a Sorc? Or other classes to (at max level ofc)?

I have a Sorc and I'm really excited about 1.6 since Sorcs have been buffed A LOT! But I feel like maybe some people who only have Sorcs don't see the changes made to all classes in regards to buffs, AOE survivability etc. and thus don't understand that the nerf to Surge is actually not that big of a deal.

[...]

I have Sorc and DK on live, don't like my DK that much though.
I have played all classes on PTS a bit and yes, the other classes can handle large groups far easier. Most importantly seem to be Draw Essence, Blazing Shield and Sap Essence. I rather think you don't understand how easy it would be to kill someone spamming AoE + Crit Surge in a zerg. You just cant survive that if the enemy players are anywere near your skill level. If they are not, they better don't stack up so much, that you can hit more than 6 (!) targets at once.

Also, it was already suggested many times now to cap the surge heal at 6 targets like every other special effect of AoE skills in the game, rather than making it completely useless for anything else than a 2 hand stamina build.
I can't see how anyone could have a problem with that, with Crit Surge you heal for 65% of Critical hits - so take your dps against 6 targets (players), multiply it with your spell crit, multiply it with 0.65, and finally multiply it with ( (2/3)+(1/3)*(~0.4) ) for impenetrable.
So, anything against this solution (to the non existent problem) ?

pppontus

Nightreaver wrote: »

So first you claim that the nerf to Surge isn't that big a deal but then you follow it by saying that Sorcs with Magicka builds should just forget about Surge, that it's not a good skill for us anymore.

Yes, Entropy makes a nice replacement for Surge. The issue I have is that Surge was one of very few class abilities worth taking up a slot on our ability bar. Now we are being expected to give it up for yet another non-Sorcerer ability. I would just really like to see Sorcerers use actual Sorcerer abilities and not be so dependent on abilities outside our class.

As a leveling Sorcerer, Surge was the ability I most looked forward to acquiring. Now it is completely useless to any Sorcerer leveling a Magicka build. And yet Magicka builds must still assign points to it and level it just letting it take up valuable space on their ability bar if they want the morph.

The changes to Impen would make Crit Surge actually useful. If it was determined to be OP then as you say, I'm sure that problem could solved. There's a fairly large gap between being completely worthless and OP.


No one expects or even wants 3 major buffs. (not that there would be any real difference between having 3 or just having 2 since one of the three would have no use).
1) Change the base ability to providing Crit Heals only. That would be beneficial to both Stamina and Magicka builds while leveling. As opposed to being completely worthless for Magicka builds.
2) One morph would add Weapon damage while the other adds spell damage.
We aren't asking to give Magicka builds anything more than what Stamina builds already have.

You got other class skills buffed instead, crystal frags, twilight etc. will definitely earn a spot on Sorc DPS bars now. I get what people are saying, but I don't understand why we are hung up discussing a single skill, there are more skills that I want to use on my sorc than there is bar space already (on the PTS).

I didn't say YOU expected 3 Major buffs, but that has been suggested several times and it is just so ridiculous I have to point out how ridiculous it is. If you didn't ask for this, it doesn't apply to you ofc.

Sure, change the heal or whatever but cap it to 3% max health per sec.. or so.. works too. I just don't know why we are still discussing it as Structured Entropy is still just as good a choice. There is no use having Surge do what Structured Entropy also does, just slightly different, imo

pppontus

ToRelax wrote: »

Also, it was already suggested many times now to cap the surge heal at 6 targets like every other special effect of AoE skills in the game, rather than making it completely useless for anything else than a 2 hand stamina build.
I can't see how anyone could have a problem with that, with Crit Surge you heal for 65% of Critical hits - so take your dps against 6 targets (players), multiply it with your spell crit, multiply it with 0.65, and finally multiply it with ( (2/3)+(1/3)*(~0.4) ) for impenetrable.
So, anything against this solution (to the non existent problem) ?

So.. assuming absolutely no buffs Impulse rank 1 does 2187 dmg * 6 = 13122 / 2 (50% crit) = 6561 * 1,5 (crit dmg) = 9841 * 0,65 (healing) = 6396 per cast of spammable AOE. Imo that's way OP. Also not factoring impen in as the whole point of the changes was to not force everyone to run full impen.. and even then it would still be high. If you want it this way I'd rather suggest a cap on 3% max health or so per sec.

Problem with having crit surge capped at 6 targets is you can output insane AOE at the same time as healing for ridiculous amounts. Any other class you have to sacrifice offense for defense, or do you disagree?

ToRelax

pppontus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Also, it was already suggested many times now to cap the surge heal at 6 targets like every other special effect of AoE skills in the game, rather than making it completely useless for anything else than a 2 hand stamina build.
I can't see how anyone could have a problem with that, with Crit Surge you heal for 65% of Critical hits - so take your dps against 6 targets (players), multiply it with your spell crit, multiply it with 0.65, and finally multiply it with ( (2/3)+(1/3)*(~0.4) ) for impenetrable.
So, anything against this solution (to the non existent problem) ?

So.. assuming absolutely no buffs Impulse rank 1 does 2187 dmg * 6 = 13122 / 2 (50% crit) = 6561 * 1,5 (crit dmg) = 9841 * 0,65 (healing) = 6396 per cast of spammable AOE. Imo that's way OP. Also not factoring impen in as the whole point of the changes was to not force everyone to run full impen.. and even then it would still be high. If you want it this way I'd rather suggest a cap on 3% max health or so per sec.

Problem with having crit surge capped at 6 targets is you can output insane AOE at the same time as healing for ridiculous amounts. Any other class you have to sacrifice offense for defense, or do you disagree?

1. Blazing Shield is offering high defense with high offense if the enemy is stupid enough to stack up in that 5 m radius, just like surge+impulse, but based on a damage shield (wich is actually superior in light armor in 1.6 now).

2. To get that damage and to sustain it, you have to sacrifice a lot of defense already, you don't outheal those 6 players with healing 6396 per cast (less, impenetrable will still be the most useful PvP trait, especially since people can run crit builds, too). You have not much health, very low resistances and have to keep up Immovable to not be CCed.
Shield Stacking is a problem in 1.6 so far imo, it's to strong and could help you regain health to then continue your AoE spamming. But that is another issue that needs to be adressed.

3. There have been several suggestions how else to fix the problem, including capping the hps with no cooldown or reducing the cooldown.
Those two would make surge more viable though I still don't like them for following reasons:

- Capping the hps would mean making the Critical Surge less viable for burst builds, especially 2 hand stamina build. So just the other way around. It also doesn't feel right forcing people to do sustained damage in order to get the most benefit from their critical strikes... if you get what I mean.

- Reducing the cooldown would reduce the problem, not solve it. DoTs would still be able to eat up the heal, just less likely.
I see it would be to take out the synergy with all kinds of AoE damage (why, actually? Sap/Draw Essence heal more for more targets hit as well).
Edit: forgot to mention Crushing Shock, I see no point in letting it heal less than other damaging abilities, it is still the best skill for sustained single target dps the Sorc can come up with.

That leads me to another suggestion how to deal with this.
If you want to get heal from Draw Essence, you affect as many targets as possible, but can't spam it. Else you lose to much magicka. Sap Essence isn't doing that much damage on it's own as well, it currently builds a lot ultimate wich can be used to do damage in 1.5 builds.
With Critical Surge, however you can choose your attacks and they will heal you for all critical damage.
So why not either drain magicka or do less damage when active?
I don't think the Surge should do less damage, since it's a damage buff, after all.
So why not make it so it drains magicka for the heals you get. There is no efficient way to regain that magicka from mutliple enemies at the moment.

So we could design morphs this way:

Base ability: Critical Surge, heals for critical damage, percentage increases with rank. The heals drain magicka (fixed value or dependent on healing).
Morph one: Power Surge, grants weapon damage buff. Also is using stamina and the heals drain stamina.
Morph two: Spell Surge, grants spell damage buff.

Exstazik

Dk's got 2 major buff (inferno) for free so i think if sorc will got 3 major buff for magicka/stamina cost will be great.All is fair

pppontus

ToRelax wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Also, it was already suggested many times now to cap the surge heal at 6 targets like every other special effect of AoE skills in the game, rather than making it completely useless for anything else than a 2 hand stamina build.
I can't see how anyone could have a problem with that, with Crit Surge you heal for 65% of Critical hits - so take your dps against 6 targets (players), multiply it with your spell crit, multiply it with 0.65, and finally multiply it with ( (2/3)+(1/3)*(~0.4) ) for impenetrable.
So, anything against this solution (to the non existent problem) ?

So.. assuming absolutely no buffs Impulse rank 1 does 2187 dmg * 6 = 13122 / 2 (50% crit) = 6561 * 1,5 (crit dmg) = 9841 * 0,65 (healing) = 6396 per cast of spammable AOE. Imo that's way OP. Also not factoring impen in as the whole point of the changes was to not force everyone to run full impen.. and even then it would still be high. If you want it this way I'd rather suggest a cap on 3% max health or so per sec.

Problem with having crit surge capped at 6 targets is you can output insane AOE at the same time as healing for ridiculous amounts. Any other class you have to sacrifice offense for defense, or do you disagree?

1. Blazing Shield is offering high defense with high offense if the enemy is stupid enough to stack up in that 5 m radius, just like surge+impulse, but based on a damage shield (wich is actually superior in light armor in 1.6 now).

2. To get that damage and to sustain it, you have to sacrifice a lot of defense already, you don't outheal those 6 players with healing 6396 per cast (less, impenetrable will still be the most useful PvP trait, especially since people can run crit builds, too). You have not much health, very low resistances and have to keep up Immovable to not be CCed.
Shield Stacking is a problem in 1.6 so far imo, it's to strong and could help you regain health to then continue your AoE spamming. But that is another issue that needs to be adressed.

3. There have been several suggestions how else to fix the problem, including capping the hps with no cooldown or reducing the cooldown.
Those two would make surge more viable though I still don't like them for following reasons:

- Capping the hps would mean making the Critical Surge less viable for burst builds, especially 2 hand stamina build. So just the other way around. It also doesn't feel right forcing people to do sustained damage in order to get the most benefit from their critical strikes... if you get what I mean.

- Reducing the cooldown would reduce the problem, not solve it. DoTs would still be able to eat up the heal, just less likely.
I see it would be to take out the synergy with all kinds of AoE damage (why, actually? Sap/Draw Essence heal more for more targets hit as well).
Edit: forgot to mention Crushing Shock, I see no point in letting it heal less than other damaging abilities, it is still the best skill for sustained single target dps the Sorc can come up with.

That leads me to another suggestion how to deal with this.
If you want to get heal from Draw Essence, you affect as many targets as possible, but can't spam it. Else you lose to much magicka. Sap Essence isn't doing that much damage on it's own as well, it currently builds a lot ultimate wich can be used to do damage in 1.5 builds.
With Critical Surge, however you can choose your attacks and they will heal you for all critical damage.
So why not either drain magicka or do less damage when active?
I don't think the Surge should do less damage, since it's a damage buff, after all.
So why not make it so it drains magicka for the heals you get. There is no efficient way to regain that magicka from mutliple enemies at the moment.

So we could design morphs this way:

Base ability: Critical Surge, heals for critical damage, percentage increases with rank. The heals drain magicka (fixed value or dependent on healing).
Morph one: Power Surge, grants weapon damage buff. Also is using stamina and the heals drain stamina.
Morph two: Spell Surge, grants spell damage buff.

First off, thank you for being reasonable in this discussion. I'm sorry if I came across badly in the beginning, I have literally waded through comments that wouldn't accept anything unless it makes Sorcs OP in all aspects of the game. Such as those asking for major wp power, spell power, healing and berserk in one skill. Makes me want to delete my sorc

1. Blazing Shield does deal some damage, but is a costly ability that also requires taking full damage to get returns and it's not quite as powerful as a true offensive ability. Biggest problem with that skill is that it triggers (or at least used to, haven't tested) the burning light passive that dealt quite a lot of damage.

2. Yeah with that and a hardened ward + healing ward you'd just get too much without enough of a sacrifice imo.

3. Your suggestion to drain magicka on heal sounds reasonable to me, however I don't know how well that would be taken by the other sorcs here. It would put it more in line with the other abilities such as blazing/sap/draw for sure, it still would likely deal much more damage than all of those but that can be balanced around of course. Could be as simple as making the heal just a tiny bit less, 50% or so. Making it useful for survivability without making sorcs a super high damage + survivability all-in-one!

Considering I have VR14s of each class, balance of course is a very dear subject for me. I don't want Sorcs to end up where DKs used to be, as I've pretty much refused to play my DK lately.. I'd rather be a little less powerful but be "balanced".

pppontus

Exstazik wrote: »

Dk's got 2 major buff (inferno) for free so i think if sorc will got 3 major buff for magicka/stamina cost will be great.All is fair

You get weapon crit and spell crit with inferno. How is that any better of a combination that weapon power and spell power?

You can't just count buffs. You are literally asking for the absolute best buff that exists in the game "Major Berserk". If you just want a lot of different buffs, sure, here.. have some stam, magicka, health recovery..

Khivas_Carrick

I posted the following in a Templar discussion thread, but I wanted to share my idea about surge with you guys and see what you think about it.

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Beleron wrote: »

Nibelaja wrote: »

I cant understand the change of mending. The templar is the only class with a healing tree, so i think ZOS wanted him to be the best healer ingame.
I hope that will not be such a big weakening as i fear a the moment...

and yet they could have given dk's cleansing flames, nbs more siphoning morphs that aoe heal, and sorc some aoe group bubbles. NOP. So now they have to balance templar out with its heals. ( i know about crit surge, and green dragon blood, but those are self heals only )

I think this is because Resto Staffs got made to be more powerful, but frankly that still doesn't make much sense because a Templar can still just toss on a Resto Staff and go to town, so why not buff other class abilities to be ally-healing skills? It really boggles my mind o_O.

In fact, here's just a rough idea for each skill that could work in such a way:

Nightblades -

Siphoning Strikes and Refreshing Path can be made into actual legit heals, one being a HoT, a real HoT I should say based off of Party Member Damage, and Refreshing Path can be an actual burst heal.

Sorcerers -

This is what should have happened to Surge. One half becomes what Sorcs know and love but with a minor change; a boost to overall damage, both spell and weapon, whichever is higher, and a heal whenever you crit, period, with a max of 6 targets in AoE.

The morph is the fun part, where when you make it into a toggle ability and it increases your healing done by 10%, with 1% bonus added each time a heal crits, stacking up to 10 times, making a Sorc healer super viable and even with a Templar.

Dragonknight -

Earthen Heart abilities should be tailored not for Tanking and survival but solely for Support and Healing, with certain moves devoted to giving the entire party damage shields and HoTs. Such skills like Obsidian Shield already do this if I'm not mistaken, but an emphasis should be placed on them and their effectiveness and while a shield is up on an ally, the healing they receive should be stronger. Helping Hands passive should also restore Stamina and Magicka to allies over time after an Earthen Heart ability is activated.

Templar -

I'm not listing what should be, but what already is, especially on PTS. Thanks to the changes to how Stamina and Magicka work, as well as damage and tanking- Hell literally everything, Templar abilities such as Luminous Spear cannot be taken lightly. They are extremely vital now, and damn near always needed during boss fights to ensure DPS and Tanks maintain their resources for as long as possible, among other abilities Templars bring to the table. No longer are they bought in for their sheer healing prowess, but rather their raw support ability. That said, the other classes still pale in comparison, and that shouldn't be the case at all I believe.

NordJitsu

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

Dk's got 2 major buff (inferno) for free so i think if sorc will got 3 major buff for magicka/stamina cost will be great.All is fair

You get weapon crit and spell crit with inferno. How is that any better of a combination that weapon power and spell power?

You can't just count buffs. You are literally asking for the absolute best buff that exists in the game "Major Berserk". If you just want a lot of different buffs, sure, here.. have some stam, magicka, health recovery..

You don't understand. No one form of surge should have all three. The base skill would have just berserk. The magicka morph would have spell power only and the stamina morph would have weapon power only.

Digiman

ToRelax wrote: »

From the PTS patch notes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Surge

• This ability now applies the Major Brutality buff.
• Power Surge: This ability now applies the Major Brutality and Major Sorcery buffs.
• Critical Surge: This ability now has a one second cooldown on the heal.

What we knew so far was that it would grant a much smaller buff and not buff Destruction Staff abilities with Critical Surge. Though I still think it would have been a good thing to let both morphs heal, one giving a weapon damage buff and one a spell damage buff.

However, the cooldown for the surge heal is just horrible game design in my opinion.
I believe it is to prevent Sorcerers from getting their enourmous heal by damaging a great amount of players with AoE abilities. That would make it different from the other AoE skills wich will not apply their special effects to more than 6 players. I don't think that is a good thing anyway as it still encourages zergballing, but that is not the point here.

The cooldown will make Critical Surge
1. useless against several enemies and
2. it will not work if you are applying ANY DoT at all.

The spell damage morph seems to be a thing for hybrid builds, as a magicka build you just use Entropy.

So please, ZOS, this has to be fixed before the Update goes live if you don't want to screw any Sorc who does not want to be a boring pet DD in some PvE dungeon.
Make Power Surge competitive and take out the cooldown from critical Surge.
In the best case apply the weapon damage buff only to "Critical Surge" (rename it) and give both morphs the healing component.

If you are afraid of the healing a Sorcerer could get without the cooldown please think of a better way to reduce or cap it. Make a cap of maximum heal per second for example, maybe scaling with spell damage&magicka / weapon damage&stamina dependant on the morph. Or just don't let AoE abilities surge heal for more than 6 targets. Those are just my thoughts, you should come up with something better than this cooldown though it is really bad design.

I agree, but the amount of healing received from the damage is negligible when your being focused on you in a 1 vs 1 environment. I only really use it when I at the back of a group healing some the damage I take from other attacks. It in now way makes me a god and get shredded pretty easily as instead of focusing on attacking I have to escape and gain distance to survive.

I was thinking for Surge morphs Critical surge should have a buff relating to stamina using sorcerers like they did with Daedric armor morph.

baratron

I'd never really noticed how much my main char benefits from Critical Surge heals until I played a V14 Template character who took the Power Surge morph. Even though she was V14 with the same 5 Light/2 Heavy mix as my current V10, and even though she had the same Skill Points passives plus the Champion Point passives, she was made of paper.

I know that mage classes are traditionally made of paper, but the massive reduction in her ability to stay alive when compared to my V10 main over at the Live server was actually quite shocking.

I am really disappointed by this change to Critical Surge. It is the only thing that bothers me about the Sorcerer class in 1.6. Most of the other changes are great - making Stamina-based Sorcerers possible is awesome. But this? Were Sorcerers OP before? Did we need the change? If it ain't broke...

ToRelax

1.6.1 Patchnotes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Storm Calling

• Overload: Increased the damage of Overload light attacks by 50%.
• Surge: All ranks and morphs of this ability now provide healing when you land a critical strike. Also, the healing cooldown has been reduced to 0.25 seconds from 1 second.

I am very happy about the fact that this should make Surge viable again and especially that you will now get spell damage and healing in one morph again.
The reason why I took Overload in the quote as well is the nice synergy this will have now. Overload also triggers Degeneration, wich again has the major spell damage buff like Power Surge. So casting both will increase the healing while you get full damage with only one of them.

What I still don't like is that Surge still does not synergize with the destruction staff very well, wich should be a viable choice for a sorcerer.
Crushing Shock hits with 3 attacks that can all crit independent from each other. AoE is obviously still not wanted to give good heal with Surge and Destructive Touch is a DoT that can not heal for much even with a very short cooldown because the heal is connected to the damage done and you don't do much damage spamming a DoT.

NordJitsu

That's definitely a good start. I Think the cooldown needs to be completely removed, however. It is always going to be an issue. Damage over time effects Will trigger it no matter how short the cooldown.

Exstazik

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/150352/surge-nerf-in-numbers-crushing-shock-example#latest