Looking forward: Can ZOS recover? What would it take? Or has it gone too far?

Rev Rielle · January 2015

Vulix wrote: »

A lot of people are leaving ESO but I am sure many don't actually want too. We would all love to happily continue playing this game, but now ZOS' actions have pushed many to leave.

For those of you leaving but wish you didn't have too, what would ZOS have to do to recover? Or, have they pushed things too far for you to consider coming back?

Personally I think this a completely and utterly ridiculous statement.

Why on earth would someone leave the game when they actually don't want to. That is counterintuitive. ZOS has not pushed anyone to do anything, in fact if anything news of the future changes to be released will only increase accessibility to the game, not decrease it. Saying they're 'forcing' us to do anything is just plain playing the provocateur.

Players either want to play, or they don't. Honestly, what a completely nonsensical, perplexing thing to write.

Samadhi · January 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

...
Players either want to play, or they don't. Honestly, what a completely nonsensical, perplexing thing to write.

What about when players want to play a sub based game with regular content updates, but don't want to play a f2p cash shop based game with infrequent content updates?

lathbury · January 2015

Or would play the game but no longer feel obliged to deal with a company that has issues with being honest.

Cody · January 2015

Well if ESO ends up failing terribly, there is always fallout 4 or TES VI:D

Ahdora · January 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Vulix wrote: »

A lot of people are leaving ESO but I am sure many don't actually want too. We would all love to happily continue playing this game, but now ZOS' actions have pushed many to leave.

For those of you leaving but wish you didn't have too, what would ZOS have to do to recover? Or, have they pushed things too far for you to consider coming back?

Personally I think this a completely and utterly ridiculous statement.

Why on earth would someone leave the game when they actually don't want to. That is counterintuitive. ZOS has not pushed anyone to do anything, in fact if anything news of the future changes to be released will only increase accessibility to the game, not decrease it. Saying they're 'forcing' us to do anything is just plain playing the provocateur.

Players either want to play, or they don't. Honestly, what a completely nonsensical, perplexing thing to write.

I want to play the game that was sold to me: a sub game with all of the announced content, and no cash shop. I don't want to play a B2P game with a cash shop, especially since things that were supposed to be in the game long ago are now delayed until at least after June.

DDuke · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

Well if ESO ends up failing terribly, there is always fallout 4 or TES VI:D

Yes, yes there is.

Sadly, they are now also victims of this untrustworthy publisher.

cesmode · January 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

cesmode wrote: »

Theres nothing they need to do to recover. There are people coming back to the game already (I am one of them) to replace the people that are leaving. Not to mention, they seem well off enough to release a console version. They must be doing ok.

But dont let the door hit you guys on the way out.

This is a perfect example of the type of player F2P/B2P brings in. Great attitude. I'm so glad that we all spent over $200.00 to test this game for you.

Im sorry, I subbed for a month or two in the fall. Does that make my opinion or contribution to this game and/or community any less valid?

Anyways, thanks for "testing" the game. No one forced you, btw. And you knew console release was coming(and consoles dont bode well with subs).

So, Im sorry youre naive enough to think that ZOS was never going to do this, especially in recent weeks where it was all but gaurunteed with recent news and announcements.

But you're a special snowflake here.

cesmode · January 2015

Decimus_Rex wrote: »

cesmode wrote: »

Theres nothing they need to do to recover. There are people coming back to the game already (I am one of them) to replace the people that are leaving. Not to mention, they seem well off enough to release a console version. They must be doing ok.

But dont let the door hit you guys on the way out.

Yeah they are doing so well they went free to play (buy to play is free to play after a paltry initial sum, which we all paid to get this game in the first place)

Watch how fast you get updates,fixes,content,customer service,GM help or bug killing.

Welcome to RIFT,Aion,AOC ,LotRo and those other dead games with 1k pops hugging the capital cities jumping up and down and RPing for fun

GW2 = B2P. More updates than any other MMO (I recognize that a lot of them were temporary fluff, but still...) and they just announced an expansion.

Im pretty sure that game is doing quite well.

ESO will be here in 6 months, in a year, in 2 years. And doing quite well as it is now.

B2P <> crap, just an FYI...

Minack · January 2015

SFBryan18 wrote: »

ESO does not need a recovery because it will continue to do just fine without the fraction who leave.

hahaha oh my sides.

You're either a comedic genius or a blithering nutjob.

Rev Rielle · January 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

...
Players either want to play, or they don't. Honestly, what a completely nonsensical, perplexing thing to write.

What about when players want to play a sub based game with regular content updates, but don't want to play a f2p cash shop based game with infrequent content updates?

Semantics. It's all part of the making the ultimate decision whether or not you want to play a particular game.

Samadhi · January 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

...
Players either want to play, or they don't. Honestly, what a completely nonsensical, perplexing thing to write.

What about when players want to play a sub based game with regular content updates, but don't want to play a f2p cash shop based game with infrequent content updates?

Semantics. It's all part of the making the ultimate decision whether or not you want to play a particular game.

So ultimately, they would have wanted to continue playing the game if it were sub based; however, since the game is going f2p and they no longer feel able to trust the company they have ultimately decided to stop playing a game they would otherwise wish to continue playing.

Makes sense.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · January 2015

What they can do to recover from this is to just back down from this idiotic plan of theirs.

Just come out, say "Sorry guys, we messed up, we'll really listen to the community now and remain susbcription on all platforms."

This will set an amazing precedent, boost player confidence and will be a better long term business decision.

If they could then go on and release straight away the DLC zones they have finished but were keeping for the cash shop, then they'll have not only recovered but taken a step forward.

If they want to have a supelmental cash shop for fluff costumes only, I wouldn't like it, but I'd be fine with it as long as the game remains sub only for functionality.

felinith66 · January 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So essentially you're getting "Skyrim with friends", while all the dedicated players that spent hours each day playing the game get thrown under the bus, zero *** given. The people that had trust in Zenimax & voted ESO best mmo.

No one cares how much time people spend playing a game. And maybe people shouldn't treat the game developer like their girlfriend or something, talking about trust and lies and commitment.

How can an MMO company commit to anything with such fickle fans, who are ready to leave the game in outrage at the slightest thing?

We all pay the same fee for the same thing: access to the game. Everyone has gotten that, and so everyone has gotten what they paid for. Any issues beyond that are personal.

No one has been ripped off, ZoS is not out to get you.

Can't wait for people to leave so I don't have to read this melodrama here anymore.

If you pay the full amount for access to the game and the game is full of bugs, then yes, you are getting ripped off. A subscription is a membership fee. You pay the full amount to get access to the services offered by that company. You pay the full amount, you expect all the services. Access to Tamriel is only one of the services offered by ZOS. Exterminating bugs, frequent updates are some of the services they offered aside from access to the game. This is where ZOS stumbled a bit.

But they tried, we have to give them credit for that. And most of the changes they made to the game were made due to player feedback. The problem, I think, is that they're prioritizing more the feedback from the players who have left, or the people who refuse to play the game, instead of the players who have stayed and genuinely love the game, making changes to the game based on the former, which in turn screws the latter.

Mud_Puppy · January 2015

I defended this game to the teeth before and after launch. Recently I had already contemplated quiting. On the announcement of the change I cancled. Hundreds of dollars and I don't care, out.

Ysne58 · January 2015

It would help if they would acknowledge their dishonesty and apologize for it. That would be a big start to establishing credibility.

SantieClaws · January 2015

These are the issues as I see them:

Trust - going to be hard work to win it back. This doesn't just affect ESO this affects every game Zenimax or Bethsoft ever produces ever again.

Content - They say the pace of content will slow down when actually if you want to keep the B2P crowd then you actually need to be stepping up on the content. Don't think people will go away, play another game then come back when DLC comes out. If they like that other game more they won't.

Performance - Still pretty patchy on PC. I am not sure the B2P crowd will be as patient as we all have been over the past year. You need to get a serious handle on performance issues.

Fairness - you need to be seen to be treating all your customers equally (even if equally badly). If you are seen to be favouring one platform over another people will get ticked off very quickly. The PC players already feel like they have been paying to be your console beta testers. Don't tick them off any more.

The shop - don't be putting things in the shop that should be in the game anyway. If you are seen to be putting items in the shop at the expense of game content we will notice very quickly and we won't like it. Any sniff of buy to win will also send us running to find another home.

You have suffered a massive loss of credibility as a company this last week. You need to be open , honest and fair. We want this game to succeed but we won't be treated like idiots and we won't stick around if you take us for granted again.

Faulgor · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Well if ESO ends up failing terribly, there is always fallout 4 or TES VI:D

Yes, yes there is.

Sadly, they are now also victims of this untrustworthy publisher.

For me it started with timed exclusivity for Skyrim's DLC. That showed me for the first time that they are willing to take cash over the interest of their customers. If they make Fallout 4 or TES VI a timed exclusive for the base game, I will not be surprised at all.
So, I guess I should have known better, but I trusted Pete's marketing speech about offering a premium product with ESO. Fool me twice.

Jando · January 2015

What can they do? Hmmm, let's see:

They can release new content every 4-6 weeks like they promised. They are way behind...and it's going to get much worse.

They can give PC subscribers that have subbed for over 5 months free content updates for Imperial City, Wrothgar, Orsinium, and Murkmire...or scale what a user gets for free based on the amount of time a user has subbed. The 1 dollar worth of crowns we get as a credit is laughable.

They can release an amazing 1.6 update, that is way better than the current state of the game, that justifies the months of development time, hype, and diversion of resources that could have been devoted to actual content.

In general, they should make PC subscribers feel like honored citizens of Tamriel, rather than people that paid to beta test. We should feel like we got the bettter end of the deal, not taken advantage of.

I think that would do it.

AshySamurai · January 2015

felinith66 wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So essentially you're getting "Skyrim with friends", while all the dedicated players that spent hours each day playing the game get thrown under the bus, zero *** given. The people that had trust in Zenimax & voted ESO best mmo.

No one cares how much time people spend playing a game. And maybe people shouldn't treat the game developer like their girlfriend or something, talking about trust and lies and commitment.

How can an MMO company commit to anything with such fickle fans, who are ready to leave the game in outrage at the slightest thing?

We all pay the same fee for the same thing: access to the game. Everyone has gotten that, and so everyone has gotten what they paid for. Any issues beyond that are personal.

No one has been ripped off, ZoS is not out to get you.

Can't wait for people to leave so I don't have to read this melodrama here anymore.

If you pay the full amount for access to the game and the game is full of bugs, then yes, you are getting ripped off. A subscription is a membership fee. You pay the full amount to get access to the services offered by that company. You pay the full amount, you expect all the services. Access to Tamriel is only one of the services offered by ZOS. Exterminating bugs, frequent updates are some of the services they offered aside from access to the game. This is where ZOS stumbled a bit.

But they tried, we have to give them credit for that. And most of the changes they made to the game were made due to player feedback. The problem, I think, is that they're prioritizing more the feedback from the players who have left, or the people who refuse to play the game, instead of the players who have stayed and genuinely love the game, making changes to the game based on the former, which in turn screws the latter.

Survivorship bias
Yes, opinion and feedback of quited players very important, but developers shouldn't forget about current active players.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

Vulix wrote: »

A lot of people are leaving ESO but I am sure many don't actually want too. We would all love to happily continue playing this game, but now ZOS' actions have pushed many to leave.

For those of you leaving but wish you didn't have too, what would ZOS have to do to recover? Or, have they pushed things too far for you to consider coming back?

SW:TOR was widely expected to die a horrible death when it went F2P within only a few months of launch, it recovered and is now doing very well.

The forums of a game when this change has just been announced is entirely the WRONG PLACE to look for a balanced, reasoned response. Most players will be concerned about how things will pan out, a small vocal minority will spew their bile and hate over every available thread, drowning any latent discussion that there may be.

Fact is no one knows the state of the game except those who can't/won't say, so all a sensible adult can do is sit an wait .. and let the kids' knee-jerk reactions wear off.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · January 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Vulix wrote: »

A lot of people are leaving ESO but I am sure many don't actually want too. We would all love to happily continue playing this game, but now ZOS' actions have pushed many to leave.

For those of you leaving but wish you didn't have too, what would ZOS have to do to recover? Or, have they pushed things too far for you to consider coming back?

SW:TOR was widely expected to die a horrible death when it went F2P within only a few months of launch, it recovered and is now doing very well.

The forums of a game when this change has just been announced is entirely the WRONG PLACE to look for a balanced, reasoned response. Most players will be concerned about how things will pan out, a small vocal minority will spew their bile and hate over every available thread, drowning any latent discussion that there may be.

Fact is no one knows the state of the game except those who can't/won't say, so all a sensible adult can do is sit an wait .. and let the kids' knee-jerk reactions wear off.

swtor is an undead game and is not "doing fine".
It broke all the gameplay it could in order to put the cash shop forward and yet is still losing revenue over time.
swtor did not recover, it sold its soul to the devil for an extended life and it lost in the change.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/11/08/eas-quarterly-net-revenue-is-up-apparently-in-spite-of-swtor/

But in a way, you're not wrong, other games have it worse.
It's supposed to have 1.2M actives, kind of sad considering it is a free Star Wars game, and they are making a profit. Sure, they are gaining less and less over time, like every other f2p game, but the devs aren't homeless yet and that's a good thing.

My hopes for the industry is that some day we could do more than be happy a game still exists in one form or the other because of corporate short term idiotic greed.
SWTOR, ESO and probably GW2 are games that have potential and a susbcription would have enabled them to realise it and rise over time rather than ever falling revenue.

Koensol · January 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Well if ESO ends up failing terribly, there is always fallout 4 or TES VI:D

Yes, yes there is.

Sadly, they are now also victims of this untrustworthy publisher.

For me it started with timed exclusivity for Skyrim's DLC. That showed me for the first time that they are willing to take cash over the interest of their customers. If they make Fallout 4 or TES VI a timed exclusive for the base game, I will not be surprised at all.
So, I guess I should have known better, but I trusted Pete's marketing speech about offering a premium product with ESO. Fool me twice.

Indeed. But not thrice. I defended this game, so hard, before the launch and in the beta. Was a regular forum member. Tried to speak well of ZOS and their intentions, and sympathizing with their design decisions. Try to convince other to play it, or revise their opinion on the game. What a way to throw that all away.