Player created content - Suggestion for the future of ESO

Shunravi

Vandignesca wrote: »

I would love a tool and system similar to Neverwinter's Foundry. Perhaps a bit more robust and less buggy though . How to incorporate it into the new hybrid model... As the game is going buy-to-play...I don't think having a system entirely behind a separate paywall for b2pers would be good however. Maybe subs get larger quest creator slots (i.e. 50) and buy players only can make 5 quests/adventures. You would then buy more slots in the store. Regardless of account type you could play as many as you wanted. Missions in dlc zones would require sub or dlc purchase to create/use.

^^

Shinozuka

Yes I agree. I think the content editor could be purchased with crowns and if your a 15$/month subscriber you get perks.

HeroOfNone

Vandignesca wrote: »

I would love a tool and system similar to Neverwinter's Foundry. Perhaps a bit more robust and less buggy though . How to incorporate it into the new hybrid model... As the game is going buy-to-play...I don't think having a system entirely behind a separate paywall for b2pers would be good however. Maybe subs get larger quest creator slots (i.e. 50) and buy players only can make 5 quests/adventures. You would then buy more slots in the store. Regardless of account type you could play as many as you wanted. Missions in dlc zones would require sub or dlc purchase to create/use.

I think there still needs to be an influx of money dome where in the path though, to maintain it, make sure there is quality in what you submit, and to give revenue to support more development (maybe voice acting?) A submission fee and a quick repeat play fee may help this IMO.

Shunravi

So, at the end of the latest cinematic, they proclaim 'unlimited adventures' does that mean that they are considering this or an option like it?

*Unadulterated speculation and hope*
http://youtu.be/7DZxYwQVJYE

Gidorick

Shunravi wrote: »

So, at the end of the latest cinematic, they proclaim 'unlimited adventures' does that mean that they are considering this or an option like it?

*Unadulterated speculation and hope*

Lol. I doubt that's what they mean but I'm going to go ahead and assume that this IS what they mean and expect player created content to be released March 17th. Don't worry, I'll vehemently call ZOS liars for breaking their promise if this EXACT concept isn't released on March 17th @ 12:00 pm EST.
/SillySarcasm

Hehe heh.

Yemeth

I agree with Gidorick, this is a great idea for real unlimited adventures... A true endless game... I know chances are rare to see that...

The other idea Gidorick gave here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146133/hireable-npc-companion-concept is easier to develop and could be a first step in a game where we could play the way we want, no matter if we are alone or with friends.

Anyway these ideas must be considerate, so I update this nice suggestion !

MornaBaine

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

words and more words

It's a rough idea, but it's a good idea. I'm sure someone with more knowledge and experience in coding and streamlining game content can take this idea and run with it.

A system for player created content such as the one SWG had would also be fantastic. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't been done before but the Triple A titles have just been either too afraid or too secure in their own quest writing superiority to include it in a major MMO. Personally, I think its time has come. This game is already winding down and it's not even a year old. ZOS should give players the tools to TRULY "play as they want" and then just stand back and enjoy the then effortless profits.

newtinmpls

Just wanted to add a note of support. ES has a long tradition of high-quality player created content. That's a lot of creativity for ESO (and it's players) to benefit from.

Yes, Please!

Gidorick

Man, if they added this and allowed console players to play the user created quests ESO would wipe up the customers!

Shinozuka

I hope everyone who wants player created content has put in a /feedback in game. I did. It can't hurt.

I would be very happy to see this feature.

Shunravi

Quite so. With the creative community we have, and the fact that they have actually given said community creation kits in previous titles, it strikes me as kinda strange that player created content isn't in their priority list.

And, heck, as @heroofnoneb14_ESO‌ and I were discussing, they could even fit it in for profit in the crown store.

Gidorick

Shunravi wrote: »

Quite so. With the creative community we have, and the fact that they have actually given said community creation kits in previous titles, it strikes me as kinda strange that player created content isn't in their priority list.

And, heck, as @heroofnoneb14_ESO‌ and I were discussing, they could even fit it in for profit in the crown store.

Any ideas of a good way to monetize this? I was thinking something like...

Players are allowed to play up to 5 quests a day for free... Want to play more? Buy a Community Quest Ticket Pack! For just 200C a player can purchase the ability to play 5 more quests in one day and there is no limit to how many Community Quest Ticket Packs a player can buy!

nerevarine1138

MornaBaine wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

words and more words

It's a rough idea, but it's a good idea. I'm sure someone with more knowledge and experience in coding and streamlining game content can take this idea and run with it.

A system for player created content such as the one SWG had would also be fantastic. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't been done before but the Triple A titles have just been either too afraid or too secure in their own quest writing superiority to include it in a major MMO. Personally, I think its time has come. This game is already winding down and it's not even a year old. ZOS should give players the tools to TRULY "play as they want" and then just stand back and enjoy the then effortless profits.

Well, a couple of things:

1. Overall, I'd love to see something along the lines of the OP. But I don't think it'll ever happen as described, because...
2. Players are mostly terrible writers. The existence of a few mediocrely written mods for some games in the single-player series does not outweigh the overwhelming avalanche of trite, banal junk. The writing of this game has been one of the strongest points, and allowing it to get mixed in with the utter nonsense that usually makes it into mods would only hurt the overall quality of the game.
3. Also, this is an MMO. I know that everyone thinks it's super-easy to code creation tools that also prevent people from cheating, but it really isn't. If you give players access to too little, they won't be able to create anything worth playing. If you give them access to too much, they'll figure out a way to create an infinite-XP loop. People are, by and large, terrible, and this community has already proven that it will find any exploit imaginable. A creation kit is like Christmas come early for that crowd.
4. There are a number of potential good things that will come out of this, but ultimately, it won't work. Most players aren't professional developers, which is why they don't work in game development. And even though it could create some shining gems of moments, it will be near-impossible to find them in the sea of exploits, headaches, and just flat-out bad content that would be generated.

Shunravi

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

words and more words

It's a rough idea, but it's a good idea. I'm sure someone with more knowledge and experience in coding and streamlining game content can take this idea and run with it.

A system for player created content such as the one SWG had would also be fantastic. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't been done before but the Triple A titles have just been either too afraid or too secure in their own quest writing superiority to include it in a major MMO. Personally, I think its time has come. This game is already winding down and it's not even a year old. ZOS should give players the tools to TRULY "play as they want" and then just stand back and enjoy the then effortless profits.

Well, a couple of things:

1. Overall, I'd love to see something along the lines of the OP. But I don't think it'll ever happen as described, because...
2. Players are mostly terrible writers. The existence of a few mediocrely written mods for some games in the single-player series does not outweigh the overwhelming avalanche of trite, banal junk. The writing of this game has been one of the strongest points, and allowing it to get mixed in with the utter nonsense that usually makes it into mods would only hurt the overall quality of the game.
3. Also, this is an MMO. I know that everyone thinks it's super-easy to code creation tools that also prevent people from cheating, but it really isn't. If you give players access to too little, they won't be able to create anything worth playing. If you give them access to too much, they'll figure out a way to create an infinite-XP loop. People are, by and large, terrible, and this community has already proven that it will find any exploit imaginable. A creation kit is like Christmas come early for that crowd.
4. There are a number of potential good things that will come out of this, but ultimately, it won't work. Most players aren't professional developers, which is why they don't work in game development. And even though it could create some shining gems of moments, it will be near-impossible to find them in the sea of exploits, headaches, and just flat-out bad content that would be generated.

Which is why the majority thread discussed ways of reducing those issues. They are good concerns though.

Gidorick

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

4. There are a number of potential good things that will come out of this, but ultimately, it won't work. Most players aren't professional developers, which is why they don't work in game development. And even though it could create some shining gems of moments, it will be near-impossible to find them in the sea of exploits, headaches, and just flat-out bad content that would be generated.

While you are very right about this, given the proper tools players can create some AMAZING things. Would everything be top not and spectacular? No... of course not but I'd taken a creatively but poorly written mediocre user created quest over the drought of new content that we've been in since November and will continue to be in for the next 9 months or so.

Community content could fill the gaps between ZOS releases. Overall it would be a boon to ESO... if the tools were implemented correctly.

HeroOfNone

Professional and player developers I see as being equal on skill in this model. The issue is that unlike professional developers, there is no minimum qualification. This is why things like paying to submit, QA review by ZOS, and testing on the PTS are being suggested, to institute a quality control methodology. Take a look at the mods for morrowind, oblivion, and skyrim; there is a LOT of talent out there with possibly better writing and coding skills than a lot of professional game developers, however they currently have no outlet in ESO to get involved. This is a way to try and bring them up into the fold.

nerevarine1138

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

4. There are a number of potential good things that will come out of this, but ultimately, it won't work. Most players aren't professional developers, which is why they don't work in game development. And even though it could create some shining gems of moments, it will be near-impossible to find them in the sea of exploits, headaches, and just flat-out bad content that would be generated.

While you are very right about this, given the proper tools players can create some AMAZING things. Would everything be top not and spectacular? No... of course not but I'd taken a creatively but poorly written mediocre user created quest over the drought of new content that we've been in since November and will continue to be in for the next 9 months or so.

Community content could fill the gaps between ZOS releases. Overall it would be a boon to ESO... if the tools were implemented correctly.

And that's where we differ. I'd rather see long gaps between good content than terrible filler at the expense of more company resources.

Gidorick

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

4. There are a number of potential good things that will come out of this, but ultimately, it won't work. Most players aren't professional developers, which is why they don't work in game development. And even though it could create some shining gems of moments, it will be near-impossible to find them in the sea of exploits, headaches, and just flat-out bad content that would be generated.

While you are very right about this, given the proper tools players can create some AMAZING things. Would everything be top not and spectacular? No... of course not but I'd taken a creatively but poorly written mediocre user created quest over the drought of new content that we've been in since November and will continue to be in for the next 9 months or so.

Community content could fill the gaps between ZOS releases. Overall it would be a boon to ESO... if the tools were implemented correctly.

And that's where we differ. I'd rather see long gaps between good content than terrible filler at the expense of more company resources.

Well, that's what's great about my suggestion! If you have no desire to play community levels simply don't visit the quest boards where they're offered and you will never be bothered by them!

As for the company resources it would take to implement this, I'd hope they have enough people to work on multiple projects at a time. Maybe not though.

newtinmpls

I do like the quest boards (plenty of folks would not like to participate, and wouldn't have to) but I dislike the idea of charging for them. After all this is a labor of love (of sorts) on the part of the modder.

As for quality of content; some of the in-game quests are interesting and some are just annoying.

I would suggest that the PTS might be a place to test out these mod/addons and they could be given ratings according to how well the PTS players enjoyed them. That could serve a weeding-out function.

Gidorick

The PTS being used as a proving ground would be very cool.

And charging for playing quests isn't ideal but ZOS has changed how they make money with ESO, so there's got to be a way to monetize this.

This suggestion was posted prior to the b2p announcement.

Blonde_Ambition93

Gidorick wrote: »

Community Quest that would then be considered an official part of Elder Scrolls Lore (or as much as any other part of ESO is considered an official part of the Elder Scrolls).

Ummm no... just no, the players have no say in what is & isn't lore, nor should they be able to change or add to it..

snowmanflvb14_ESO

player created content can and will lead to hacking and ruining pvp becasue of it. Once the "game" is open enough to create the content it is also open enough for hacking. This is an MMO not an single player rpg open to modding

newtinmpls

Well, Snowman the first thing I would say is that the game is already accumulating a number of mods. Some are used, some aren't - but there are an increasing number of them that gain popularity by being useful and NOT damaging to the game.

As for hacking; the game would not be "open", or at least I agree with you that this is something to approach with serious caution. I suggest that potential adventures/content could be submitted to some sub-section of the PTS.

And as for the "we can't do this because it's an MMO" argument - its a silly argument. If it's not doable because it's not practical (yet) that is one thing. But in a creative endeavor like this coming up with new ideas and trying things - sometimes even things that "have never been done before" is something that will benefit both developers and players.

Gidorick

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

player created content can and will lead to hacking and ruining pvp becasue of it. Once the "game" is open enough to create the content it is also open enough for hacking. This is an MMO not an single player rpg open to modding

Is hacking a problem in the Perfect World games which ALL have the Foundry?

newtinmpls

Gidorick wrote: »

Is hacking a problem in the Perfect World games which ALL have the Foundry?

What is the Foundry? Is it a player created mod/addon?

HeroOfNone

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

player created content can and will lead to hacking and ruining pvp becasue of it. Once the "game" is open enough to create the content it is also open enough for hacking. This is an MMO not an single player rpg open to modding

Most of the player made content suggested has been for PVE, involved a set of controls to test them, involve using preconstructed mobs and areas, and would not affect things like set bonus, player skills, or other aspects. Did you bother to read through the discussions here or just read the title?

=(

Gidorick

newtinmpls wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Is hacking a problem in the Perfect World games which ALL have the Foundry?

What is the Foundry? Is it a player created mod/addon?

It's like their version of the creation kit. A set of tools allowing players to make their own quests.

Neverwinter and Star Trek Online use it. I'm not sure if any others do.

Kaizxen

Gidorick wrote: »

The PTS being used as a proving ground would be very cool.

And charging for playing quests isn't ideal but ZOS has changed how they make money with ESO, so there's got to be a way to monetize this.

This suggestion was posted prior to the b2p announcement.

IMO, player-made content would be indirectly monetized by helping ZOS retain players, especially since ZOS has stated that their own development of new content is going to slow down.

If anything, ZOS should be giving modders incentives for creating content for the game, but most modders are willing to do so just for the fun of it.

ZOS could, however, stipulate that certain types of content (mount skins, for example) are exclusive to the cash shop and off limits to modders so that their anticipated profits from the cash shop are not negatively affected.

Gidorick

Kaizxen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The PTS being used as a proving ground would be very cool.

And charging for playing quests isn't ideal but ZOS has changed how they make money with ESO, so there's got to be a way to monetize this.

This suggestion was posted prior to the b2p announcement.

IMO, player-made content would be indirectly monetized by helping ZOS retain players, especially since ZOS has stated that their own development of new content is going to slow down.

If anything, ZOS should be giving modders incentives for creating content for the game, but most modders are willing to do so just for the fun of it.

ZOS could, however, stipulate that certain types of content (mount skins, for example) are exclusive to the cash shop and off limits to modders so that their anticipated profits from the cash shop are not negatively affected.

I would say the skins and mounts should be able to be used in the level as npcs and props, to advertise the content. Releasing Crown Store content as Community level assets prior to their release (2 months prior?) could be a good way to advertise.

Kaizxen

Gidorick wrote: »

I would say the skins and mounts should be able to be used in the level as npcs and props, to advertise the content. Releasing Crown Store content as Community level assets prior to their release (2 months prior?) could be a good way to advertise.

That's a good thought.

By "off limits" I just meant that modders wouldn't be able to create their own mounts, since that's likely to be a large part of the cash shop income for ZOS.