PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1

Jabbar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

DEUTSCHE PTS-PATCHNOTIZEN v1.5.1
[*] Reduced the amount of bonus damage provided by stealthed attacks against other player characters.

• Note that stealthed attacks are still always critical strikes that stun your target.

So done with you ZoS. I quit.

Edit: Stealth openers are necessary for a lot of builds. You create a game where you claim anyone can play any way they want and then continually force us into more limited roles. Yeah, I can hit for 1.7k out of the gate... I also have 800-1200 less health than anyone I'm fighting and far less defense. I drop the moment they get on me.

"Well change your build, get more defense"

I should not have to. Do not market a game as allowing us to play any build and way we want and then disallow us the most classic rogue builds based on some people who are butthurt they get shot while sprinting on their horse through Cyrodiil or talking to a quest NPC in Cheydinhal for a whole minute like morons.

You realize that heavy attacks + venom arrow already filled the close range role snipe is now being thrust into right? Out of stealth it even had pretty good damage, snipe was a tool used for long range or healing reduction. It now serves much less of a purpose. Meanwhile you still sit on the weakest and most useless AoE in the game and nerf the few good skills we have.

Do the people making these decisions even play the game? Sure seems like they have only played WoW and/or Guildwars 2 because I feel like this game gets more watered down, cookie cutter, basic, and worthless every day.

Jacques Berge

Don't quit you jerk. The guild needs you. Also, that statement is very true.

Detector

thorspark wrote: »

Hey ZOS, just remove nightblades from the game if you don't like them.
All usefull skills broken till the beginning (Cloak not working properly for 6 months now, haste useless, poor heals, no shields ...)
And now you nerf stealth damage ?

Just remove the entire class cause I ain't playing mine if you do this. Not sure of playing any other if you keep unbalancing more and more.

You already ruined the bow burst with this patch. Your stamina "improvements" only make us go to full magicka.

I'm really patient, but sometimes, I just don't understand the mess you're doing.

+1. agree(

Milf_Hero

jgc471980 wrote: »

Common ZOS are you insane

Why the Hell would you reduce this ?

** Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate. **

we have asked over and over for months to get the duration increased????

wh.. what? Hold the phone. Hold the freakin phone. i just *** my pants... WHAT... THE... F************************************************. You can take away my skills, except the healing abilities and our two original skills. Just give me more time in return, is all i ask. infinite time preferably and ill be set. Now we are working backwards. fan[snip]tastic. Also you didn't have to lower the initial damage in infectious claws. Always gotta go buffing one thing and debuffing it in another area. Hmmm does that defeat the purpose? Yes. Yes it does.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Kego

Lorkhan wrote: »

2 - skill point refund? what about class refund?

I want that, too!
Give me a VR5 DK instead of the totally broken NB class.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, regarding sneak damage:

Stats with bow: 160 weapon damage 2400 stamina

Snipe from stealth: 1100 damage (crits)
Snipe not in stealth: 540 damage (no crit) with 810 on crit
Heavy attack stealth: 950 damage (crits)

Snipe vs heavy: Snipe deals more damage, has a faster base cast time, and can apply debuffs. Heavy costs no stamina.

Now the interesting part: Greatsword (2400 stamina and 210 weapon damage)

Greatsword heavy attack from stealth: 1870 (crit)
Greatsword heavy attack not in stealth: 610 (no crit) 915 (Crit)

So it would appear that greatsword sneak attack damage has been BUFFED in this patch. I personally like this, but is this intended?

Good. Looks pretty realistic and good for PvP now. Incentive has been added for using melee vs bow.

But question is, is that vs PC or NPC? If its PC then GS heavy attack could stand to be a bit lower than that. And how much for uppercut.

How is you sneaking behind someone with a big heavy sword realistic in any way?

I do agree Dual Wield (and I could probably stomach even 2H) should deal more sneak damage (since it is somewhat riskier) than Bow, but not at the expense of bows becoming downright useless.
There is no way bow will be able to burst down someone in a zerg if these changes go live, especially since the main bow burst of Snipe->Heavy Attack->Venom Arrow was already made impossible

1100 crit from stealth is almost the same some people hit with Crystal Frags

With soft capped stamina/weapon dmg (gimping your survivability in the process), this would allow you to get one 1,5k crit on someone, before that someone breaks from the stun & starts spamming dmg shield or the zerg heals him up & runs you over.

All this leads to is more zergball gameplay. Everyone loves zergballing, right?

People hitting that much with crystal frag are taking advantage of a known bug with the combination of light armor spell pen with sharpened trait to ignore all slell resist and hit for spells listed value plus bonuses.

And the fact is thay sneak attacks with bow were too strong at base and able to be rediclously strong against certain targets. Werewolves especially would simply be 1-shot by lethal arrow with camoflaged hunter. My regular 1.3k would be increased by 50% and have over 600 added tp it. Not fair. I have my vr14 hundings rage bow set too. I know how unfair it is.

Werewolves would be one shot by Lethal Arrow only if they wore no Poison Resistance rings & had less than 3k health.

Also, according to some people, werewolves currently don't actually get the vulnerability unless they're in werewolf form.


I get that you want to be strong against everything and have no weaknesses, but that's not how you make a good (MMO)RPG.

Stamina builds have a very big weakness against most magicka builds, they don't have dmg shields or heals (nor should they), yet good players can still beat magicka builds even without the stealth burst. Just like good players with magicka builds can beat stamina ones when they get hit by sneak attacks.


To give an example, there's the player D, a stamina NB who was attacked by two bow gankers while mounted. He reacted quickly, and hit the cloak button before more than one Snipe landed. He proceeded to beat both of the gankers.

Bad players will always complain about good ones, and instead of finding fault in themselves, they find excuses.

Youre just reading invisible words at this point.

Look. Bow was op, thats why theres hordes of them around cyrodil now. If they were garbage not nearly as mamy people would touch them. It got as bad as impulsers, possibly worse. They were sorces of the cheapest kills possible in cyrodil and gave no incentive to use melee weapons. My bow play will be nerfed too, and no river of tears flow from me. Just find a new source of cheap kills. People always do.

All thats needed now is for them to readjust the greatsword sneak damage if that heavy attack on an armored player target was indeed that high and adjust dual wield to be slightly higher than that, so its bow/1h+sh > gs > dw in sneak strength.

With this im tuning off of this topic because pretty sure it will be impossible to reason with those who thot 2k+ 50m range hits were at all fair and balanced. There will be some excuse to attempt to make it seem feesable and that it only hurts nightblades but all that will be false.

Now, bring on the lols. Im close to my next badge.

They really do not need to lessen 2h attack damage from sneaking. What they need to do improve 2H ability in combat in general. They just gave use a new passive that is suppose work when a heavy attack is hit but they seem to forget that people block easily which completely makes this passive worthless. I want to feel like i am swing a giant sword not box cutter that cannot split through a block.

True but some things were still too strong. They can buff 2h all they want but if things would be at a point where people just drop dead from 1 persons actions in less than 2 seconds it needs to change. the 2k+ uppercut and lethal arrow hits were too strong. Players can only get so much HP, and If they can get killed with a less than 2 second attack chain from 1 person, its just gotta stop.


Sometimes I hate the auto-draft save...

timidobserver

***_Hero wrote: »

jgc471980 wrote: »

Common ZOS are you insane

Why the Hell would you reduce this ?

** Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate. **

we have asked over and over for months to get the duration increased????

wh.. what? Hold the phone. Hold the freakin phone. i just *** my pants... WHAT... THE... F************************************************. You can take away my skills, except the healing abilities and our two original skills. Just give me more time in return, is all i ask. infinite time preferably and ill be set. Now we are working backwards. fan[snip]tastic. Also you didn't have to lower the initial damage in infectious claws. Always gotta go buffing one thing and debuffing it in another area. Hmmm does that defeat the purpose? Yes. Yes it does.

I agree. As of 1.5.0 I started leveling up WW thinking it would finally be half decent once it went live. I stopped and cured it after 1.5.1

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

demonlkojipub19_ESO

***_Hero wrote: »

jgc471980 wrote: »

Common ZOS are you insane

Why the Hell would you reduce this ?

** Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate. **

we have asked over and over for months to get the duration increased????

wh.. what? Hold the phone. Hold the freakin phone. i just *** my pants... WHAT... THE... F************************************************. You can take away my skills, except the healing abilities and our two original skills. Just give me more time in return, is all i ask. infinite time preferably and ill be set. Now we are working backwards. fan[snip]tastic. Also you didn't have to lower the initial damage in infectious claws. Always gotta go buffing one thing and debuffing it in another area. Hmmm does that defeat the purpose? Yes. Yes it does.

Agree rather pointless change. Theyre wasting sweet times buffing one area of ww but greatly nerfing another. They are trying desperately to keep the transformation on a stupidly short timer when it needs to just be a toggle. Forget their "technical reasons" excuse.

I will say that the infectious claws change is probably to ensure the dot portion doesnt become an afterthought. Make the initial hit too strong and it will become just another spam ability. See elemental ring. Its something they still need yo work on in other areas.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Gilvoth

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, regarding sneak damage:

Stats with bow: 160 weapon damage 2400 stamina

Snipe from stealth: 1100 damage (crits)
Snipe not in stealth: 540 damage (no crit) with 810 on crit
Heavy attack stealth: 950 damage (crits)

Snipe vs heavy: Snipe deals more damage, has a faster base cast time, and can apply debuffs. Heavy costs no stamina.

Now the interesting part: Greatsword (2400 stamina and 210 weapon damage)

Greatsword heavy attack from stealth: 1870 (crit)
Greatsword heavy attack not in stealth: 610 (no crit) 915 (Crit)

So it would appear that greatsword sneak attack damage has been BUFFED in this patch. I personally like this, but is this intended?

Good. Looks pretty realistic and good for PvP now. Incentive has been added for using melee vs bow.

But question is, is that vs PC or NPC? If its PC then GS heavy attack could stand to be a bit lower than that. And how much for uppercut.

How is you sneaking behind someone with a big heavy sword realistic in any way?

I do agree Dual Wield (and I could probably stomach even 2H) should deal more sneak damage (since it is somewhat riskier) than Bow, but not at the expense of bows becoming downright useless.
There is no way bow will be able to burst down someone in a zerg if these changes go live, especially since the main bow burst of Snipe->Heavy Attack->Venom Arrow was already made impossible

1100 crit from stealth is almost the same some people hit with Crystal Frags

With soft capped stamina/weapon dmg (gimping your survivability in the process), this would allow you to get one 1,5k crit on someone, before that someone breaks from the stun & starts spamming dmg shield or the zerg heals him up & runs you over.

All this leads to is more zergball gameplay. Everyone loves zergballing, right?

People hitting that much with crystal frag are taking advantage of a known bug with the combination of light armor spell pen with sharpened trait to ignore all slell resist and hit for spells listed value plus bonuses.

And the fact is thay sneak attacks with bow were too strong at base and able to be rediclously strong against certain targets. Werewolves especially would simply be 1-shot by lethal arrow with camoflaged hunter. My regular 1.3k would be increased by 50% and have over 600 added tp it. Not fair. I have my vr14 hundings rage bow set too. I know how unfair it is.

Werewolves would be one shot by Lethal Arrow only if they wore no Poison Resistance rings & had less than 3k health.

Also, according to some people, werewolves currently don't actually get the vulnerability unless they're in werewolf form.


I get that you want to be strong against everything and have no weaknesses, but that's not how you make a good (MMO)RPG.

Stamina builds have a very big weakness against most magicka builds, they don't have dmg shields or heals (nor should they), yet good players can still beat magicka builds even without the stealth burst. Just like good players with magicka builds can beat stamina ones when they get hit by sneak attacks.


To give an example, there's the player D, a stamina NB who was attacked by two bow gankers while mounted. He reacted quickly, and hit the cloak button before more than one Snipe landed. He proceeded to beat both of the gankers.

Bad players will always complain about good ones, and instead of finding fault in themselves, they find excuses.

Youre just reading invisible words at this point.

Look. Bow was op, thats why theres hordes of them around cyrodil now. If they were garbage not nearly as mamy people would touch them. It got as bad as impulsers, possibly worse. They were sorces of the cheapest kills possible in cyrodil and gave no incentive to use melee weapons. My bow play will be nerfed too, and no river of tears flow from me. Just find a new source of cheap kills. People always do.

All thats needed now is for them to readjust the greatsword sneak damage if that heavy attack on an armored player target was indeed that high and adjust dual wield to be slightly higher than that, so its bow/1h+sh > gs > dw in sneak strength.

With this im tuning off of this topic because pretty sure it will be impossible to reason with those who thot 2k+ 50m range hits were at all fair and balanced. There will be some excuse to attempt to make it seem feesable and that it only hurts nightblades but all that will be false.

Now, bring on the lols. Im close to my next badge.

They really do not need to lessen 2h attack damage from sneaking. What they need to do improve 2H ability in combat in general. They just gave use a new passive that is suppose work when a heavy attack is hit but they seem to forget that people block easily which completely makes this passive worthless. I want to feel like i am swing a giant sword not box cutter that cannot split through a block.

True but some things were still too strong. They can buff 2h all they want but if things would be at a point where people just drop dead from 1 persons actions in less than 2 seconds it needs to change. the 2k+ uppercut and lethal arrow hits were too strong. Players can only get so much HP, and If they can get killed with a less than 2 second attack chain from 1 person, its just gotta stop.


Sometimes I hate the auto-draft save...

but yet the devs allow the sorcerers to Keep thier stun and knockdown with crystal shards that do upwards of 1800 damage each hit, and the dragonights to allowed to keep the flame whip hitting for 800 - 1100 per hit.
you die within a few seconds.

Heishi

ZOS really needs to keep their terminology straight. When you're crouching it's supposed to be sneaking, when you use a skill or potion it's invisible/cloak. Maybe sneaking it stealth too? Does stealth cover both? Bonus damage from crouching is much higher than from cloaking or potion.

So many people are complaining about the being hit hard by the nightblade and then them cloaking again. Once you are seen from stealth/sneaking/whatever. You can't go back into it again unless you escape combat. If other people join the fight, you're not going back into sneaking, that bonus is done.

Really if the problem is with snipe, they should be nerfing snipe. By nerfing stealth, I assume sneak, it punishes stamina builds and people who don't use bows. Sure we have the option to, but I shouldn't have to use a bow to maximize dps because others are causing problems with it.

It's not just with this either. I felt like this about the whole everyone must use cloth crisis too. Same with the we all must be vampires and DKs.

My newest main is a nightblade that uses dual daggers. I know this is PvE and not PvP, but if my nightblade didn't have the burst damage stopping power, he would and does die quickly. If a cloak fails, or the sneak damage doesn't apply properly (which does happen sometimes) he's dead.

Sure, he could use bows to attack people at a distance, but with his build, I prefer having gap closers.

I do have a character who uses bows, and it'd be a shame to see snipe nerfed, but I would MUCH prefer that to all "stealth" damage being nerfed.

Someone had mentioned the damage in question would go from 2k down to 1800. Ok.. that 200 extra health isn't going to save anyone. I suspect people being killed, are not being overkilled by just 200 dmg. This isn't going to resolve the bow issue. When you are using melee weapons and are having to be up close to your opponent, the extra 10% is more significant since most of the melee range attacks are not doing as much.

Personally, the optimal solution I could see is nerf bow "stealth" damage. Many games you have something like melee sneak damage is 2x while ranged sneak damage is 1.5x. This seems like a fair compromise because the ranged has the advantage of not having to be near the opponent.

This isn't so much the case in TES. Looking at Skyrim's sneak damage chart, at their base 1h deal 3x and bows deal 2x which I could live with. difference here is bows with their perk Deadly Aim go up to 3x while daggers with Assassin's Blade go to 15x and 1h(including dagger) with backstab get 6x.

From that perspective, your average one hand with perk having 6x while bow with perks has 3x is close to the 1.5:2 I mentioned. Technically pulled down it'd be 1.5:3.

Heishi

As a random side note... doing this for summoning/using magic needs to stop

Gorthax

GoodOrc wrote: »

Werewoolf reduction timer is a mistake! Or at least tell us what you want to do, what we WW soposed to do in game with those 30 sekends? In Cirodil I ewen cood not run from tent to enemy! OMG what you doing...

omfg....my head hurts from reading this....

Khivas_Carrick

Kypho wrote: »

There you go! NB nerf
Happy to see they nerf the weakest class

Wrong, Templars are still weakest class XD in PvE at least lol Sorry, had to.

Thejollygreenone

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

There you go! NB nerf
Happy to see they nerf the weakest class

Wrong, Templars are still weakest class XD in PvE at least lol Sorry, had to.

They're the weakest dps in pve, yes.

They're also the strongest healers in pve.

Not sure if there is a 'weakest class', I generally prefer not to see it that way.

Khivas_Carrick

VileIntent wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Oh, stealth damage reduction across the board? Yep this affect everyone equally. I'm looking foutward to the next patch where burst healing, fire damage, and ranged spells get nerfed. These will also affect everyone, equally.

I was wondering, can we get cloak changed to a skill where my toon throws glitter in the air and doesn't even try to go invisible.

I'm sorry to all my DK friends, it's really unfair for you guys to get face rolled, even if you aren't paying attention. I know I've killed guys in one hit, totally wasn't fair... Even though he was marked and I was using camo hunter and he was a vamp with 2.5k hp, totally unfair.

I was wondering, can I get concealed weapons changed? Have me give my enemy a wedgie or maybe a wet willie? I just figured this would be more fair. I'm sick of this game rewarding my meticulous hunting or my attention to my surroundings.

My NB friends, guys, let's just reroll and block cast in light armor, like everyone else.

I all ready do... was thinking of going back to bow until I read this. I feel your pain Brother. I can only imagine what they have planned for the dark brotherhood and how it will some worthless guild skill line. Assassinations means killing people quickly, but not so apparently in Elder Stacking Online. Remove Block casting please. I can pull 5 Wamasu and 10 scorpions v13 in upper craglorn and barely break a sweat using block casting as a magicka based Nightblade. Hold Block and face plant 1 key... mucho grande skill. ok, if you don't want to remove it at least give the act of doing it a 50% damage nerf to persuade players from holding block while casting.

What these guys said.

Navaya wrote: »

So where is the Reflective Scale Nerf? That Dragonknight ability is way to far overpowering. To become immune to any projectile and also reflect it back with increased damage, that just doesn't seem very intended. This spell makes Dragonknight dominate PvP and able to take down groups alone, So please fix or change it.

Definitely agreeing with this ***. @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌; Guys, what the hell man? Tell your Combat Teams that Reflective Scale is way too damn powerful, hell that Dragonknights on their own are too powerful!

Djeriko wrote: »

Once again it's time for my comment about shield dyes. Still waiting for shield dyes. I love how you dodged that guys comment about shield dyes Gina and started talking about guards. Still waiting on a patch to give us shield dyes. Once you give us shield dyes you will have most of the population extremely happy. You must realize this tiny fix has a big effect. Can I get some help here fellow posters who want SHIELD DYES!

Yea, about them Shield Dyes @ZoS, may wanna get on that. Them and Weapons too.

kijima wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I have a few queries for your team.

1. What are you guys doing about Sanctum Ophidia?

Surely 1.8 million HP and the fact no-one has (if anyone has, please chime in) been able to defeat the boss, that means you'll have a look at this yes? I'm sure you have stats on how many times people have tried this versus how many have failed.

2. The changes that you've made resulting in a damage reduction for stealth attacks is just plain stupid, sorry guys but this was not warranted.

3. As for the change in oils that have been made that directly effect PvP, I think you are going to have to revisit that, defending a keep will now be impossible to zergs that ball up and spam impulse.

PvP was JUST starting to get to a stage where the good attackers were purging and staying out of oils. We all understand the issue of resource farming with oils, but surely you can do better than what you've come up with.

4. Lastly, why not look at the things that need attention like block casting or impulse spamming that have been plaguing Cyrodiil for more than a good while now.

As George W once said, 'It's not rocket surgery'

Out of touch much? Do you really not know that Impulse is that strong of a move? Or did you honestly intend to let people cast a super spell while holding down the block key?

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

I feel like the ESO team does an amazing job with PvE as a whole.

I think the people who are making PvP decisions need to get some perspective though.

I don't think they're that great with PvE either tbh. 2H is still a joke of a skill line and Templars do abysmal DPS and Sorcs have a slightly harder time with Melee than they should. I do agree with you on PvP though.

Detector wrote: »

thorspark wrote: »

Hey ZOS, just remove nightblades from the game if you don't like them.
All usefull skills broken till the beginning (Cloak not working properly for 6 months now, haste useless, poor heals, no shields ...)
And now you nerf stealth damage ?

Just remove the entire class cause I ain't playing mine if you do this. Not sure of playing any other if you keep unbalancing more and more.

You already ruined the bow burst with this patch. Your stamina "improvements" only make us go to full magicka.

I'm really patient, but sometimes, I just don't understand the mess you're doing.

+1. agree(

I don't even play a Nightblade and I feel their pain.

Kypho wrote: »

***_Hero wrote: »

jgc471980 wrote: »

Common ZOS are you insane

Why the Hell would you reduce this ?

** Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate. **

we have asked over and over for months to get the duration increased????

wh.. what? Hold the phone. Hold the freakin phone. i just *** my pants... WHAT... THE... F************************************************. You can take away my skills, except the healing abilities and our two original skills. Just give me more time in return, is all i ask. infinite time preferably and ill be set. Now we are working backwards. fan[snip]tastic.

[...]

Yea, they have a habit of doing that way too often thinking that's going to make things ok. They say they take baby steps to fix things yet for some reason that is entirely unknown to us they take baby steps in the wrong direction, where they buff one thing but make it useless by nerfing another. The purpose of this eludes me entirely.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, regarding sneak damage:

Stats with bow: 160 weapon damage 2400 stamina

Snipe from stealth: 1100 damage (crits)
Snipe not in stealth: 540 damage (no crit) with 810 on crit
Heavy attack stealth: 950 damage (crits)

Snipe vs heavy: Snipe deals more damage, has a faster base cast time, and can apply debuffs. Heavy costs no stamina.

Now the interesting part: Greatsword (2400 stamina and 210 weapon damage)

Greatsword heavy attack from stealth: 1870 (crit)
Greatsword heavy attack not in stealth: 610 (no crit) 915 (Crit)

So it would appear that greatsword sneak attack damage has been BUFFED in this patch. I personally like this, but is this intended?

Good. Looks pretty realistic and good for PvP now. Incentive has been added for using melee vs bow.

But question is, is that vs PC or NPC? If its PC then GS heavy attack could stand to be a bit lower than that. And how much for uppercut.

How is you sneaking behind someone with a big heavy sword realistic in any way?

I do agree Dual Wield (and I could probably stomach even 2H) should deal more sneak damage (since it is somewhat riskier) than Bow, but not at the expense of bows becoming downright useless.
There is no way bow will be able to burst down someone in a zerg if these changes go live, especially since the main bow burst of Snipe->Heavy Attack->Venom Arrow was already made impossible

1100 crit from stealth is almost the same some people hit with Crystal Frags

With soft capped stamina/weapon dmg (gimping your survivability in the process), this would allow you to get one 1,5k crit on someone, before that someone breaks from the stun & starts spamming dmg shield or the zerg heals him up & runs you over.

All this leads to is more zergball gameplay. Everyone loves zergballing, right?

People hitting that much with crystal frag are taking advantage of a known bug with the combination of light armor spell pen with sharpened trait to ignore all slell resist and hit for spells listed value plus bonuses.

And the fact is thay sneak attacks with bow were too strong at base and able to be rediclously strong against certain targets. Werewolves especially would simply be 1-shot by lethal arrow with camoflaged hunter. My regular 1.3k would be increased by 50% and have over 600 added tp it. Not fair. I have my vr14 hundings rage bow set too. I know how unfair it is.

Werewolves would be one shot by Lethal Arrow only if they wore no Poison Resistance rings & had less than 3k health.

Also, according to some people, werewolves currently don't actually get the vulnerability unless they're in werewolf form.


I get that you want to be strong against everything and have no weaknesses, but that's not how you make a good (MMO)RPG.

Stamina builds have a very big weakness against most magicka builds, they don't have dmg shields or heals (nor should they), yet good players can still beat magicka builds even without the stealth burst. Just like good players with magicka builds can beat stamina ones when they get hit by sneak attacks.


To give an example, there's the player D, a stamina NB who was attacked by two bow gankers while mounted. He reacted quickly, and hit the cloak button before more than one Snipe landed. He proceeded to beat both of the gankers.

Bad players will always complain about good ones, and instead of finding fault in themselves, they find excuses.

Youre just reading invisible words at this point.

Look. Bow was op, thats why theres hordes of them around cyrodil now. If they were garbage not nearly as mamy people would touch them. It got as bad as impulsers, possibly worse. They were sorces of the cheapest kills possible in cyrodil and gave no incentive to use melee weapons. My bow play will be nerfed too, and no river of tears flow from me. Just find a new source of cheap kills. People always do.

All thats needed now is for them to readjust the greatsword sneak damage if that heavy attack on an armored player target was indeed that high and adjust dual wield to be slightly higher than that, so its bow/1h+sh > gs > dw in sneak strength.

With this im tuning off of this topic because pretty sure it will be impossible to reason with those who thot 2k+ 50m range hits were at all fair and balanced. There will be some excuse to attempt to make it seem feesable and that it only hurts nightblades but all that will be false.

Now, bring on the lols. Im close to my next badge.

They really do not need to lessen 2h attack damage from sneaking. What they need to do improve 2H ability in combat in general. They just gave use a new passive that is suppose work when a heavy attack is hit but they seem to forget that people block easily which completely makes this passive worthless. I want to feel like i am swing a giant sword not box cutter that cannot split through a block.

True but some things were still too strong. They can buff 2h all they want but if things would be at a point where people just drop dead from 1 persons actions in less than 2 seconds it needs to change. the 2k+ uppercut and lethal arrow hits were too strong. Players can only get so much HP, and If they can get killed with a less than 2 second attack chain from 1 person, its just gotta stop.


Sometimes I hate the auto-draft save...

but yet the devs allow the sorcerers to Keep thier stun and knockdown with crystal shards that do upwards of 1800 damage each hit, and the dragonights to allowed to keep the flame whip hitting for 800 - 1100 per hit.
you die within a few seconds.

YEAAAAHHHH, don't forget about other *** like Impulse and Bat Swarm either.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and Removed moderated quote]

Darkonflare15

I understand why people would be mad about the timer for werewolf in pvp but if your in a group of were wolfs time would not be too bad but if your complaining the werewolf in pve then you must have not tried it out on the PTS yet.

Does not take me long to get my ultimate up since I have skills that can generate ultimate fast. I am a night blade but you never hear about the good things about the class. Change into a WW run to enemy area on all fours I pounce on enemy maul him to death devour him and move on run into to a group of six enemies. I use claws of life on all the enemies getting heal from the disease damage. Then I pop on hircine's rage get health from that then I start devour the first enemy to die while the other enemies are attacking me.

I am not worry about the mobs killing me because I have enough health for me thanks from the burst heal of hircine's rage and Hot from claws of life. Enemies no longer can interrupt me from devour. So I can eat with my hearts content while they try to kill me. After eating my health is fully restore and continue to slay the rest of my enemies this continue for the next 6 minutes yeah I am six minutes as a ww and I decide to go further area. The run speed of the ww on all fours is way faster than a horse so I can get to any destination fast. What if I run out time? No worries, I see a deer I pounce on said deer and get time then I devour and get time and continue on to my destination. I have finally decided to go into a city after I was tired of slaying things. So I cut off my WW ultimate. So in the end I was a WW for 20 min without running out of time.

Thanks to the fact that devour no longer takes too long and that I cannot be interrupted while I was feeding to get more time. I now have three ways to heal myself a hot, a burst heal, and healing from devour. I can run faster, gain a lot stamina from heavy attacks.My heal can raise my attack power my light attacks produce bleed damage. I have aoe skill that that diseases multiple enemies and I can morph it to either debuff the enemies more or have the disease damage heal me over time. I have med range attack that can knock and enemy down who tries to escape. I can cc break knock downs now. Any type of special power I have on my weapon get added to my claws. A fear that sets 3 enemies off balance. I can pick up items and use potions which we all can take for granted. Plus I have a full bar of moves that does not take over my other two weapon bars.

There is so much stuff we can finally do with ww now and people complain about a little ww timer reductions. If it was ww timer was reduced before the 1.5 patch then I call foul play but since they fixed a lot problems since then a little time reduction is not that bad if I can hit enemies for 1.5 k damage in about 6 secs with just light attacks.
My only concern is how to move the skills around because I always use wrong move and would like to set up so I can have my utility moves to the back of the bar and my attacking moves to the front of the bar.

On a funny note the aura of protection move that enemy shamans drop and the game some times stay there even though you destroy them and the WW can devour the banner. Which I think is funny.

Nightreaver

"dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

but yet the devs allow the sorcerers to Keep thier stun and knockdown with crystal shards that do upwards of 1800 damage each hit, and the dragonights to allowed to keep the flame whip hitting for 800 - 1100 per hit.
you die within a few seconds.

OK, I'll bite, how the 'ell are people hitting for 1800 with Crystal Frag? It's posted in the forums so I know it must be true.
At VR14 while exceeding both the Max mana and spell damage soft cap AND using a pot to increase damage even further I am barely able to break 1K.

Gilvoth

Nightreaver wrote: »

"dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

but yet the devs allow the sorcerers to Keep thier stun and knockdown with crystal shards that do upwards of 1800 damage each hit, and the dragonights to allowed to keep the flame whip hitting for 800 - 1100 per hit.
you die within a few seconds.

OK, I'll bite, how the 'ell are people hitting for 1800 with Crystal Frag? It's posted in the forums so I know it must be true.
At VR14 while exceeding both the Max mana and spell damage soft cap AND using a pot to increase damage even further I am barely able to break 1K.

pic

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

To ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

My SUB is up on November 5th, now normally I purchase 6 months at a time as I truly love this game. But now I see you are Nerfing Sneak attack Damage on Patch 1.5.1. and some people have said it is like 20-25% less damage on the PTS.

Before seeing this I thought, wow, ZOS are finally making weapons and Stamina abilities way better, this is awesome. As a Nightblade Player (I have one main and three alt's, a total of four of them) and a strong supporter of this game and a Guildmaster of a group, you have now shaken my resolve in this game.

I have seen many of my friends leave this game (some over trivial things) and have remained steadfast but now I don't know anymore, I am shaken. This Nerf and the inability for Shadow Cloak and it's Morph's to be fixed is really weighing on me.

I think I will go month to month now for the Subscription, so starting November when I re-Sub, I'm gonna buy another Month of game time, not 6 months as I was originally going to, as I really need to see how this Nerf to sneak attacks looks like on the live game in Cyrodiil and if it is not really good I might be leaving this game. I never thought I would say that....

Now, you need to explain to me, and the others why this Nerf is totally taking effect, if it is because of Snipe (and it Morph's) and that they are too strong and one shotting players, then Nerf Snipe.

You do not Nerf overall Sneak damage.

If this Nerf is because of Preparation for the Champion System in the coming months, then you need to advise us of such as this will then give me and my guild something to look forward to and I will resub for the next 6 months, but my guild and I need answers.

No more hiding behind closed doors or Ignoring Forum questions, you need to inform us about this....full stop.

The Nightblade class is very weak when used as a Stamina build vs other enemy players but Nightblade players, myself included love to play it that way, I understand I can be killed easy by other players, especially Dragonknights but being able to do Burst damage is the Trade OFF and I accept that and with this Nerf to Sneak Attacks that will most likely be no longer.

So the Ball is now in your Court and remember I consider silence an answer as well, as this means that someone who truly loves this Game means nothing in your eyes.

I await your response...

Thank you,

Signed James,
the player of=
Kotaro Atani, VR14 Khajiit Nightblade
Saliltul Xertius level 37 Argonian Nightblade caster
Cat Er Roh, VR1 White Tiger Khajiit Vampire Nightblade
Moko-no-Tora, level 7 Orange Tiger Khajiit Nightblade (just started last night)

Guildmaster of the Queens Hand.

Heishi

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

To ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
Now, you need to explain to me, and the others why this Nerf is totally taking effect, if it is because of Snipe (and it Morph's) and that they are too strong and one shotting players, then Nerf Snipe.

You do not Nerf overall Sneak damage.

^This. Basically same thing I stated in my above post (before the wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man) but it's well worth restating.

I am 100% fine if they have to nerf snipe because it's doing 2k+ damage. I'm not ok with nerfing an entire game mechanic because of the abuse on one skill.

I'm sure I'm gonna have to be ok with it. Just gotta.. well.. it's like a certain exam when you realize there's a hand on both shoulders. I've seen ZOS over a long period make a change because players asked for it. Once it hits PTS though it's done. We're going to be living with it for at least a month.

Regardless of people saying this is a wrong move they're not going to change it. Sure, they will fix bugs people find in PTS, but not change a planned nerf/buff.

Strap in peeps, Nightblades are going back to the bottom of the pile. At this rate they'll turn into diamonds before they ever work properly.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Heishi wrote: »

Strap in peeps, Nightblades are going back to the bottom of the pile. At this rate they'll turn into diamonds before they ever work properly.

And to me that is just sad, we finally get some headway and then bam, back to the bottom.

Heishi

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

Strap in peeps, Nightblades are going back to the bottom of the pile. At this rate they'll turn into diamonds before they ever work properly.

And to me that is just sad, we finally get some headway and then bam, back to the bottom.

At least we can always out level the dungeons and come back for them. Oh wait, no we can't they're gonna scale.

Caspur

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
@ZOS_JoBurba‌

"Reduced the amount of bonus damage provided by stealthed attacks against other player characters."

^ This is just for non-nightblades, right? You didn't nerf a class who has a signature skill based around attacking from stealth, right? Please tell me that you guys aren't that out of touch with the game.

If only it was for non-NBs. They forgot to mention that they're changing the NB class name to Farmer or maybe it was Chimney sweep and that the new skill line includes dual-wielding blunt butter knives...

draeganb16_ESO

We lost a bit (maybe 5%-10%) of damages from the first and unique blow and and it's the ultra NightBlade nerf ?
Oh, come one people, don't tell me that's because NB needed this only attack to kill anybody in PvP... We still have the stun for the stealth attack though. I've seen very potent NB that didn't need any stealth attack to take down somebody.
If you want to give ideas to improve the NB, fine, this class need it but not through this nerf that impact all classes and was needed

Zed

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

We lost a bit (maybe 5%-10%) of damages from the first and unique blow and and it's the ultra NightBlade nerf ?

Closer to 20 ~ 30%. Speaking of numbers, I wish Zenimax would be a bit less vague about the nerf. Give us some numbers so we don't have to guess or do testing where the results can change depending on a large number of variables.

Darkonflare15

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

We lost a bit (maybe 5%-10%) of damages from the first and unique blow and and it's the ultra NightBlade nerf ?
Oh, come one people, don't tell me that's because NB needed this only attack to kill anybody in PvP... We still have the stun for the stealth attack though. I've seen very potent NB that didn't need any stealth attack to take down somebody.
If you want to give ideas to improve the NB, fine, this class need it but not through this nerf that impact all classes and was needed

Yeah, they are complaining about a little damage reduction of sneak way to much. They acting like nb are the only class that utilize sneak damage. I know plenty of sorcerers that uses sneak damage.

You know what the difference between night blades and every other classes when it comes to sneak damage. One passive that gives 10% more attack and spell power when we are crouch and 100% stun when we do a successful stealth attacks. That's it. Its the only passive that requires us to use stealth all the other passives relies on damage in general not stealth at all like increase crit and crit damage.

My only problem with the night blade class is that it does not feel like a stealth class which what everbody wants to make it.

suycyco

The problem also is that mainly the people who is complaining about Stealth attack are people who are not optimized for pvp against a special build who is built for.
They think like they are no match , so this build is op. But they don't see that against another pvp player who is also built for pvp this built isn't actually so strong.
And also if they fight I don't know any of the other class with a pvp built in 1v1 they will be no match the same, it 'll take a bit longer (not so much) but it'll be a one way fight.

Actually if Zenimax give stamina build a better ressource management I would be agree to this change, but when I see how fast my stamina go actually, and the few magicka I must have for my stam build to be effective (if I have to move a little in stealth before, few attack a cc break and a roll and out of stam...) and when I see video of light armor/staff stam and magicka restoration I don't find it very fair if our damage are the same.

B11zzard

Infallible Mage
2 Piece Bonus: Adds spell critical strike
3 Piece Bonus: Heavy attacks reduce enemy armor and spell resistance
4 Piece Bonus: Adds spell damage
5 Piece Bonus: Adds spell critical strike, and adds bonus damage to heavy attacks

Last Prodigies, Potatoes and other. Can you kill Serpent and check this set? How many %crit it gives?

Jitterbug

I totally understand crit-based stamina players (I am one, albeit lowbie) and their fear that this will destroy their class/playstyle - I do.
But don't you guys think the "one-shot" is over the top? I ask because I'm unsure how to feel about it - it just looks a little silly that you can drop a guy without him ever seeing you... Can't you agree that it needs balance or am I way off?

Milf_Hero

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I understand why people would be mad about the timer for werewolf in pvp but if your in a group of were wolfs time would not be too bad but if your complaining the werewolf in pve then you must have not tried it out on the PTS yet.

Does not take me long to get my ultimate up since I have skills that can generate ultimate fast. I am a night blade but you never hear about the good things about the class. Change into a WW run to enemy area on all fours I pounce on enemy maul him to death devour him and move on run into to a group of six enemies. I use claws of life on all the enemies getting heal from the disease damage. Then I pop on hircine's rage get health from that then I start devour the first enemy to die while the other enemies are attacking me.

I am not worry about the mobs killing me because I have enough health for me thanks from the burst heal of hircine's rage and Hot from claws of life. Enemies no longer can interrupt me from devour. So I can eat with my hearts content while they try to kill me. After eating my health is fully restore and continue to slay the rest of my enemies this continue for the next 6 minutes yeah I am six minutes as a ww and I decide to go further area. The run speed of the ww on all fours is way faster than a horse so I can get to any destination fast. What if I run out time? No worries, I see a deer I pounce on said deer and get time then I devour and get time and continue on to my destination. I have finally decided to go into a city after I was tired of slaying things. So I cut off my WW ultimate. So in the end I was a WW for 20 min without running out of time.

Thanks to the fact that devour no longer takes too long and that I cannot be interrupted while I was feeding to get more time. I now have three ways to heal myself a hot, a burst heal, and healing from devour. I can run faster, gain a lot stamina from heavy attacks.My heal can raise my attack power my light attacks produce bleed damage. I have aoe skill that that diseases multiple enemies and I can morph it to either debuff the enemies more or have the disease damage heal me over time. I have med range attack that can knock and enemy down who tries to escape. I can cc break knock downs now. Any type of special power I have on my weapon get added to my claws. A fear that sets 3 enemies off balance. I can pick up items and use potions which we all can take for granted. Plus I have a full bar of moves that does not take over my other two weapon bars.

There is so much stuff we can finally do with ww now and people complain about a little ww timer reductions. If it was ww timer was reduced before the 1.5 patch then I call foul play but since they fixed a lot problems since then a little time reduction is not that bad if I can hit enemies for 1.5 k damage in about 6 secs with just light attacks.
My only concern is how to move the skills around because I always use wrong move and would like to set up so I can have my utility moves to the back of the bar and my attacking moves to the front of the bar.

On a funny note the aura of protection move that enemy shamans drop and the game some times stay there even though you destroy them and the WW can devour the banner. Which I think is funny.

show me. Show me your 1.5k dps. show me 20 minutes of you in werewolf form in a place like dragon star arena or In a vet dungeon in city of ash/craglorn and not fighting trash mobs. Show me a video of you and your pack killing people in pvp. That is if you can scrounge one together. Id like to see this. you surviving and putting out 1.5 k damage in all of these situations all in form through out the entire battle. Since you say you can stay in form for 20 minutes. Please post a video. I would really like to see this.