Shield Stacking needs to go away. Period.

Blackthorn51

Stacking shields is utterly stupid. It gives a complete advantage to every class with the sole exception of Nightblades (who have no shields, wtf?).

How to easy mode win ESO with no skill involved what so ever:

1: Roll a Sorc
2: Stack shields to make you unkillable.
3: Never stop holding block
4: Bolt Streak in, Overcharge and Light Attack Spam (Maybe a curse or two)
5: Bolt streak out (20 times in a row for some sorcs) as soon as someone starts withering your shield
6: Restack your shields, rinse and repeat.

Pow. Now you can only die if a group focuses you down at the same time and somehow manages to stun you.

Oh and let me add one more number:

7: Act like your some hot *** skilled player even though you spend 90% of your PVP bolt streaking in the opposite direction of the battle.

Bottom Line: Shield stacking needs to go. Especially when you have classes who don't get any shields (other than harness magicka). Even more so when you already have classes that are OP Easy Mode without adding Stacked Shields to the equation.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Blackthorn51 wrote: »

with no skill involved what so ever:

1: Roll a Sorc
2: Stack shields to make you unkillable.
3: Never stop holding block
4: Bolt Streak in, Overcharge and Light Attack Spam (Maybe a curse or two)
5: Bolt streak out (20 times in a row for some sorcs) as soon as someone starts withering your shield
6: Restack your shields, rinse and repeat.

You are doing it wrong.

Tankqull

well sorcs without shields are absolutly AP fodder - they have even less heal than NB as critical surge is completly negated in pvp.

MADshadowman

Another person that thinks shields make a player unkillable. You might wanna check out some good players and watch them kill shielded enemies.

The problem with guys like you is:

Everything YOU can do to be awesome is ok.
Everything OTHERS can do to be awesome is bad and needs to be nerfed.

Grow up buddy.

Tankqull

MADshadowman wrote: »

Another person that thinks shields make a player unkillable.

welll they can actually do so - i cant kill a sorc with half a braincell due to the shields, but i´m fine with that as other classes do have the same problem with my char.

Macoda

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

MADshadowman

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

eliisra

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

Why? Casting 99% of the skills in this game comes without offset or penalty. Most good things in game are spammed freely, with no draw back. Some skills with way more impact than a shield.

I can spam Green Dragon Blood, Inhale and Reflective scales on my DK without sacrificing anything, for example. That gives me way more survivability than Harness Magicka + class shield.

Only skills I know that comes with a penalty is Bolt Escape, Equilibrium and Mark Target. In those cases, there's an actual argument why there has to be a draw back (even if I find the Mark Target one a bit harsh).

Ashanne

Why is this even a debate? is shield stacking going to stay?
then add some shields based on stamina. A stamina build only does not have the magika to spam shields. So what now? I am stuck with 3k of hp while mages have over 5k hp and infinite magika pool? I attack sorc and Templars with all my stamina pool, drink a pot and I barely manage to take half of his life and then he pops another shieldsx3..what a...
It happened to me so many times that I almost killed a sorc (100hp) only for him to pop-up 2k shield on him. So its ok to have 100 and 2000 shield? Scale the shield to the remaining life not max life.
Or increase the shield power by 10% and remove completely the stacking.

(And for the ones thinking : no I'm not a NB. This is not a NB issue its a stamina build issue)

Garion

Give NBs a class based shield. Problem solved, kids.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

Same as healing, it's main drawback is that you expend magicka and the opportunity cost of not being able to attack while you spam shields. Shields are also supposedly balanced by the fact that they don't benefit from your mitigation, which nobody really cares about of course, but that is more a problem of the game in general.

Probably a good counter skill with decidely low armor penetration and high raw damage would fit a niche here, but skill bars being ridiculously small as they are that probably wouldn't work out so well anyway.

Ashanne

You haven't read my last sentence...I want a shield too..stamina based ..i am not greedy to ask 3(one of which returns magika on every hit)....
for NON-NB stamina build

eventide03b14a_ESO

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

I'm all for improving some of the nightblade's defense, but this call to nerf other classes is getting old.

eventide03b14a_ESO

eliisra wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

Why? Casting 99% of the skills in this game comes without offset or penalty. Most good things in game are spammed freely, with no draw back. Some skills with way more impact than a shield.

I can spam Green Dragon Blood, Inhale and Reflective scales on my DK without sacrificing anything, for example. That gives me way more survivability than Harness Magicka + class shield.

Only skills I know that comes with a penalty is Bolt Escape, Equilibrium and Mark Target. In those cases, there's an actual argument why there has to be a draw back (even if I find the Mark Target one a bit harsh).

Mark Target is harsh, so is Siphoning Strikes, and Haste is pretty much just useless. Honestly they need to fix the nightblade not nerf the other classes.

Tankqull

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

I'm all for improving some of the nightblade's defense, but this call to nerf other classes is getting old.

well i dont think NBs need improvements - but they need to have their skilles bug fixed.

Spangla

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

This is complete BS - Nightblades can't go invisible at all cause cloak sucks and doesnt work at all in a fight period and breaks if a fly farts in the same campaign as you.

The rest of your post however is accurate - but please don't paint nb's as being anywhere near as effective all round in pvp as all the other class's. All the top top players are dk's, temps or shield stacking sorc's.

The most powerful possible class is a DK Emperor fact - proven many times.

It really is time NB stealth issue was solved by a massive buff to cloak - personally I find BE insulting - not only is it better at disengaging than cloak is, it is also a direct counter to it that does damage, recharges ultimate and allows you to escape from anyone whenever you fancy it. er wtf.

Oh and once you've escaped - Charge magica back super quick and re-cast shields to be immortal again

eventide03b14a_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

I'm all for improving some of the nightblade's defense, but this call to nerf other classes is getting old.

well i dont think NBs need improvements - but they need to have their skilles bug fixed.

I disagree. They have abilities that make you wonder who would ever use them? Why should there be a penalty to DPS with Siphoning Strikes? Why should Blur only last 15 seconds instead of being a toggle? Seriously, none of these abilities are that OP that they couldn't throw the nightblades a bone and improve them a little.

Macoda

That is the point. There should be an offset for any survivability enhancing skill. For damage shields, it is essentially like tossing a heal pre-emptively without having to sacrifice magicka or DPS for it after it is up (unlike healing...since it is reactive). Basically, you should have to choose between utilizing offensive and defensive abilities. If you are spamming offensive abilities, you should not have the benefit of partaking in a defensive based stance (i.e., using block while still casting). The opposite of that should be true as well. If you are enhancing your survivability, you should have to sacrifice your offensive ability.

Spangla

It really is pathetic - a shield that costs magica to cast but returns magica when being beaten down? wtf ha - almost as bad as being immovable in full skirt armour.

I am convinced not one dev with a brain has seriously pvp'd

Sharee

Funny picture to enjoy with the thread:

http://imgur.com/H3pk2xm

Cody

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

I had no idea a 2 second cast time ability so heavily lowered your DPS...(sarcasm)

Cody

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

and please don't bring the NB cloak into this. It is almost useless right now due to the bugginess of it, combined with the messed up condition stealth is in right now.

MADshadowman

Cody wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

and please don't bring the NB cloak into this. It is almost useless right now due to the bugginess of it, combined with the messed up condition stealth is in right now.

Too late, i already did. And i can see this ability working every day a couple of times. Pretty much every nightblade can disappear right after every hit they take.

Cody

MADshadowman wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

and please don't bring the NB cloak into this. It is almost useless right now due to the bugginess of it, combined with the messed up condition stealth is in right now.

Too late, i already did. And i can see this ability working every day a couple of times. Pretty much every nightblade can disappear right after every hit they take.

im not going to argue over what you have seen. but im going to tell you a fact: the ability is broken.

It breaks constantly. if you are in a large battle, it most likely will not work. if you are near keep NPCs, it most likely will not work.

the total screw up ZOS did with stealth recently, has made the ability even more useless.

and they cant "disappear after every hit they take" that is a lie. I know because iv played the NB since launch, and because I try on a daily basis. it breaks at the most inconvenient times, it costs a huge chunk of magicka, and can just be broken by detection potions and magelight. put the recently destroyed stealth in with it, the ability is a frustration to use.

Saet

Cody wrote: »

and they cant "disappear after every hit they take" that is a lie. I know because iv played the NB since launch, and because I try on a daily basis. it breaks at the most inconvenient times, it costs a huge chunk of magicka, and can just be broken by detection potions and magelight. put the recently destroyed stealth in with it, the ability is a frustration to use.

Maybe he meant that you get the great honor of using it over and over again after it repeatedly fails and you get hit again and again til dead. I know thats usually my experience.

Spangla

Still never a comment from zenimax - There really is no dev who has any say over policy in their staff who plays pvp seriously.

Spangla

MADshadowman - you are talking bs I doubt you would know the difference between a potion and a cloak. Pretty easy to tell really if he managed to escape IT WAS A POTION!

MADshadowman

Cody wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

and please don't bring the NB cloak into this. It is almost useless right now due to the bugginess of it, combined with the messed up condition stealth is in right now.

Too late, i already did. And i can see this ability working every day a couple of times. Pretty much every nightblade can disappear right after every hit they take.

im not going to argue over what you have seen. but im going to tell you a fact: the ability is broken.

It breaks constantly. if you are in a large battle, it most likely will not work. if you are near keep NPCs, it most likely will not work.

the total screw up ZOS did with stealth recently, has made the ability even more useless.

and they cant "disappear after every hit they take" that is a lie. I know because iv played the NB since launch, and because I try on a daily basis. it breaks at the most inconvenient times, it costs a huge chunk of magicka, and can just be broken by detection potions and magelight. put the recently destroyed stealth in with it, the ability is a frustration to use.

Spangla wrote: »

MADshadowman - you are talking bs I doubt you would know the difference between a potion and a cloak. Pretty easy to tell really if he managed to escape IT WAS A POTION!

I've been playing pvp every day for the last 4-5 months, so i think i kinda have some experience and know what i'm talking about.

They actually can disappear after every hit, so the skill obviously works. of course that doesn't help them very much, cause i still roughly know where they are and can still hit them with aoe damage, which let's them pop out of stealth, which is right, cause let's face it, they just got hit with fire or shock aoe.

If they don't get hit, they stay stealthed. So, it works just fine most of the time.

@Spangla‌ I doubt you know anything about this game, especially about potions, cause potions have a cooldown and can't be used every 2 seconds. as you have probably noticed by now: your argument is invalid.

Ryzium

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Macoda wrote: »

The problem with damage shields in this game is that there isn't an offset. You cast a shield and increase your survivability dramatically, but you don't have to sacrifice anything for it. For example, there is no penalty to magicka regeneration or damage output while one is up on you. That is the real problem...you should have trade-offs when utilizing this and there is none.

You sacrifice your magicka and while you are popping shields you can't attack. so your dps goes down a lot if not completely. What else are you supposed to do if you don't want to die? Of course you throw on every shield you have to protect yourself, this is just normal.

DK's reflect projectiles and use their dragon blood.
Templars use their sun shield and their class heals.
Nightblades go invisible after every hit.
And sorcs stack shields.

Every class complains about the other classes for using their build. You can't ask for nerfing other classes and have your own class untouched. That wouldn't be fair. I would suggest to leave all the classes the way they are.

I'm all for improving some of the nightblade's defense, but this call to nerf other classes is getting old.

well i dont think NBs need improvements - but they need to have their skilles bug fixed.

I disagree. They have abilities that make you wonder who would ever use them? Why should there be a penalty to DPS with Siphoning Strikes? Why should Blur only last 15 seconds instead of being a toggle? Seriously, none of these abilities are that OP that they couldn't throw the nightblades a bone and improve them a little.

Then should we fix sorcs because we only have 6 good abilities for a magicka build and 1 or 2 good stamina build abilities.we are the only class that doesn't have an ability that reduces armor or spell resist, the only class without a melee class skill, and we are the only class without a heal of any kind because as it has been said before you can't crit anything to get the heal.

I love my sorc and have learned to play it well. But QQing for stupid things like siphoning not needing a DPS decrease or blur being a toggle is stupod. Besides when cloak doesn't work NBs are fine. They are great fun to play and can actually get into any role this game has.

CapuchinSeven

MADshadowman wrote: »

I've been playing pvp every day for the last 4-5 months, so i think i kinda have some experience and know what i'm talking about.

But, you don't do you? Because you follow up with -

MADshadowman wrote: »

If they don't get hit, they stay stealthed. So, it works just fine most of the time.

Simply being stood next to the enemy breaks NB cloak, repeatedly.

The very suggestion that Nightblade cloak stands even close to the survivablity of other classes is so comical I can only assume you've never played a Nightblade in the way I've played a NB, Sorc and DK.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

MADshadowman wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

MADshadowman - you are talking bs I doubt you would know the difference between a potion and a cloak. Pretty easy to tell really if he managed to escape IT WAS A POTION!

I've been playing pvp every day for the last 4-5 months, so i think i kinda have some experience and know what i'm talking about.

They actually can disappear after every hit, so the skill obviously works. of course that doesn't help them very much, cause i still roughly know where they are and can still hit them with aoe damage, which let's them pop out of stealth, which is right, cause let's face it, they just got hit with fire or shock aoe.

If they don't get hit, they stay stealthed. So, it works just fine most of the time.

@Spangla‌ I doubt you know anything about this game, especially about potions, cause potions have a cooldown and can't be used every 2 seconds. as you have probably noticed by now: your argument is invalid.

How can his argument be invalid when you are completely out of topic?

Spangla was explaining that invisible potions are more reliable escape tools compared to Dark Cloak (which in fact is right), because unlike Dark Cloak, the invisibility from the potions does not break from random and unexplained reasons.

The fact you can use the potion every 30sec is irrelevant and is not something Spangla pointed about.

That's the issue people are talking about, the fact Dark Cloak breaks randomly in PvP. Those same people complain because they can't take advantage from its 2,9sec duration making the skill totaly unreliable in PvP because you never know when you are going to randomly reappear.

Let me explain you with an arbitrary exemple to make myself clear :
- Let's say you are about to die and use Steadfast Ward to shield you up, you got that awesome shield which is supposed to protect you from damage for 6sec, but for some odd reasons the shield decides to fade the moment you cast the spell and you end dying because the buff didn't last the mentioned 6sec.

You indeed got protected for a fraction of second, so by following your logic the skill should work fine? I didn't think so.

Now compare Dark Cloak like it was your Steadfast Ward, the guy is about to die and he NEEDS his 2,9sec to atleast take some distance. The guy indeed gets cloaked, he indeed gets the purge and the armour buff but since he appeared right after using the skill he couldn't take advantage, to reposition himself and ends up dying like you would have died should your Steadfast Ward broke right after you used it.

Now tell me how this skill "works just fine" after everything I tried to explain to you?