My ESO combat issues and possible fixes.

gendarkb16_ESO

First of all this is mostly from a pvp point of view and also i must say that i use an stamina build, the following list may sound as a recap of various and well know post/issues in these forums but it is my own list of the issues i find every day while I play and frustrate me, leaving me with no wanting to play anymore as every day passes and this things remain.

So here we go, this list is not in any particular order I would like all of this fixed or at least looked at:

Ultimates: Ultimates right now should have their name changed to "Opener" or something like that, is ridiculous how right now every group fight in pvp (or bosses in pve) starts with the ultimate charged and consist on who uses more ultimates first or better. Well the problem aren't with the ultimates damage or function, for me the problem is in the ultimate gain and ultimate decay rates and because of that an ultimate right now doesn't feel that "ultimate", in pvp you know that the enemy will have it charged 90% of the time and if you see a train/blob the only spam ultimates as fast as they can. The main problem right now is that you can pre-charge ultimate out of combat, you always see groups of people spamming grand healing or other spells that charge ultimate and they don't go to battle until all the raid have their ultimate charged, once they find a group of enemies their first movement is unleash the ultimate(barriers, standards, bats, you named it) and then you run spamming you ultimate generation ability and repeat. This mechanic also contributes to blobing because more people equals more ultimate gain, and of course if you don't wear a staff and precharge your ultimate out of combat before any fight you are fool or not wanted in some groups.
Possible fix: It shouldn't be possible to gain ultimate out of combat, also if you are out of combat ultimate should decay. Please make ultimates be an "Ultimate" again instead of the openers that are right now.

Stealth: I understand that the game is designed so everyone can stealth/crouch but why everyone is good at it ? i mean why a person that uses a full set of heavy armor or light armor can ve hidden 5m away from me and i can't see them, again why people using spells like magelight a bright light that orbits the player can be hidden 5m near me and be still hidden ? The difference between medium armor and light/heavy armor are too small, the speed at moving in stealth is the same and the distance to be discovered is nearly the same, the only thing that varies a little between armors is the stamina drain while sneaking, but this difference only affects while moving and anyways the stamina loss with 0 pieces of medium armor isn't that bad. Currently entire zergs traverse the fields pf cyrodiil while in stealth, stealth penalties are negated by large groups just using stamina regen aura and movement speed buffs. What i mean, in short, medium armor has no real impact on stealth and everyone is to good at stealthing no matter what armor he uses.
Possible fix: Increase stamina drain in stealth and detection radius a lot by default and change the medium armor percentages to match the current drain/detection we have now, making medium armor as good as we have right now but making heavy/light worse at moving using stealth.

Block mechanic: Well I said this list has not any particular order but the block mechanic is one of the things that annoy me the most right now. Block was clearly designed as situational and reactive defensive measure, that is clearly seen by the game clues saying you to 'block now' or by the fact that blocking cancels animations, so block was designed as a reactionary thing but right now blocking is used by +70% (magica users and tanks) players as a perma-buff, everyone that uses magica and don't care for stamina is fighting with the right mouse button pressed, because they can cast trough blocking and blocking don't consume stamina even you can regenerate stamina normally while doing it, that's very very wrong and as said before that isn't how blocking was designed, at least nothing in the game points as using block as perma buff (always on). What's the problem? well it isn't fair to stamina users (what a surprise) the other 30% of the players that tries/struggles to play with stamina builds can't use the perma-block buff because we need that precious stamina to do everything and also very few stamina skills can be used while blocking.
Possible fix: For starters the act of blocking (right mouse button pressed) should stop stamina regen and also should drain stamina like running/stealth, with this we will stop the perma-block(always on) issues that we have right now and block would be again a reactionary measure just as designed.
Also i am on the opinion that casting trough blocking shouldn't be possible and must go away, don't know maybe silencing the player while blocking ?

Forward camps: At the beginning of the game, the first few months, the game in pvp was very fun there was battles everywhere, there were travelers between keeps and towns, reinforcements parties running between keeps and gank squads, essentially there was action everywhere in the map and forward camps where rarely used.
Now forwards camps are spammed and abused, the action in cyrodiil is reduced in 2 spots / big battles in the whole the map usually those are always sieges, the armies keeps respawning non stop, also if you die you just wait to someone to use a camp to respawn and this is used as a fast travel... you see someone attacking a target somewhere in the map (even at the other side) and just suicide and wait or ask for a camp in that place. Abusing forward camps mage the traveling system in cyrodiil inexistent , reinforcements from keep to keep where destroyed, ganks squads and roaming parties in the roads also died, and small scale encounters also disappeared. In conclusion pvp is just destroyed becoming an endless siege wars with infinite respawns and where traveling/reinforcements matters zero.
Possible fix: Make that the area that appears in a forward camp to determine the distance between camps also be used to dettermine the area of camp use, meaning that if you die in the camp area you can use it and respawn there, if you died outside the camp area you can't use that camp, with this change the forward camps will maintain his use but not longer will be used as a fast transportation metod

AoE Damage and spam: I can't understand why some of the most damaging skills in the game are aoe that don't require targeting, in other games pbaoe had some sort of disadvantage like a casting time, cooldown or having to stand still without moving, but in ESO those non-target aoe are those that hit stronger while not requiring any sort of skill, placing or facing to use, those skills to name a few are impulse, bat swarm or steel tornado, with those you can move (no penalty) and spam away without caring for anything.and also those skills hit like a truck for what they are. But in the other hand we have skills that require some sort of skill (be it, to face the target or to put down a circle somewhere) that don't do as much damage as the previous ones, some example of those can be lighting splash or wall of elements, dawnbreaker or carve.
So let's make a fair damage comparison between those 6-7 skills:
magica: impulse (pbaoe) >> wall of elements(line-cone) >> lighting splash (place circle)
ultimate: bat swarm (pbaoe dot) >>> dawnbreaker (small cone)
stamina: steel tornado(big pbaoe) >> carve (small cone)
So, why pbaoe skills are so much better and do more damage than those skills that require some sort of positioning ?
Possible fix: Reduce the damage of pbaoe skills at least by a 30% or put a cast time on some of them.

Active armor skills: I understand that ESO is meant to have a flexible skill system where everyone can use the skills they choose, but using an armor skill without even wearing that armor is just wrong, my best exemple already within the game is momentum/rally skill for 2h weapons, if you want to use this skill/buff you have to wear a 2h weapon, with active armor skills it should be the same because right now we have that the most offensive armor(cloth) in the game that can use the most defensive/anti-CC skill(immovable), that provokes shitloads of cloth users that spam skills based on magica can also spam the ultimate defense(armor and immune to silence)skill using the stamina pool that they don't use, again best offence with best defense with zero sacrifices.
Possible fix: Well make active armor skills only usable if you wear 5 pieces of that armor, and please rework/buff the leather armor skill.

And to finish, there are also some other well known issues that need to be looked at, AOE caps, unbreakable CCs, animation canceling abuse... AOE caps being the most common talk in the forums and i can suppose you are well aware of the blobs that form in pvp because of it, please increase that aoe cap for some damage spells and ultimates and maintain the caps for healing spells, creating a ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 lets say dmg spells affect 12 to 18 targets while heals (with smart healing) maintaining the 6 target cap, with this change blobs while dissolve and pvp while be much more fun.

On a side note i know this isn't combat related but i will like a FOG slider option for the game, something that let me tweak the amount of fog we see at distance, i like to use the ESO launcher to remove the fog bug having 0 fog is almost as bad has having the current game fog, i would like to have a middle ground between normal launcher and ESO launcher mod (no fog) something like having only a 30% fog or so.

Sorry for the long post and the grammar (eng being my 3rd language) but i hope the message is clear and easy to understand.

Cody

I despise the blocking system. in fact, I don't just despise it. I hate it. I find it in its current state completely unacceptable. It is VERY wrong, AND stupid, that people can hold block, while using abilities. I fight countless players that just hold block while spamming crushing shock, puncturing strikes, lava whip, all those abilities that can be cast while blocking. It is VERY difficult to deal with a player that does this and here is why:

everything in the game blocks the same amount of damage. A wooden staff can block a giant steel battleaxe almost as well as a shield. The only difference between blocking with the staff and the shield, is with the shield you can do it longer. But if you have some way to regain stamina, whether its green dragon blood, stamina pots, whatever, then you wont need the shield passives. You, with your wooden stick, will be able to block everything a shield can, WHILE using other abilities. This applies with all weapons.

If ZOS wont apply some common sense to blocking(a wooden stick should not be blocking a steel battleaxe. sorry to all you guys that do it, but its true) Then they need to change it to where you cant use abilities while blocking. Its VERY annoying to face players that do this. There is very little you can do, but keep smacking them, and hope their stamina drains out(often it does not. iv hit people blocking with weapons, with rapid strikes SEVERAL TIMES; only for them to STILL be blocking me)

Sord

I full agree with your list and fixes and feel these issues really need to be looked at and worked on ASAP. As well as fixing class powers in there current state of being only magic based and making some be stam based, granted most will remain magic based but some could be stam based. It just doesn't make sense that it isn't more intermixed. This ties into the whole everyone wears LA because it is way more advantageous to wear LA vs MA/HA, which is just sad!

I know they say there is always room for improvement but these are issues that need to be fixed ASAP! I would rather see more time/money put into hiring more people to get these issues fixed than into more end game content, because these mechanics would improve game play for a much larger group of people then just the hard core end gamers, not to mention how prevalent these kind of posts are with the same issues.

Saet

Best "Ideas for Fixes" post yet. If they would do all the things you advised and once and for all, fix the damned stealth, I would be happy. I really hope the devs read this and take it to heart. Lots of greatness in the OP.

Rune_Relic

My only reservation is being pure stamina and no spells.... My only aoe that is any use is bombard.
Without this I have no method of damage to multiple players at once in a PVE context..especially public dungeons.
Providing PVE mobs are nerfed 30% if AOE damage is nerfed 30%....fine.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Why can I generate ultimate while an ultimate is active? Right now, I can perma use my ultimate in PVE if I keep pulling more and more mobs. I can also do this in PVP if there is a group of people bunched together. I should not be able to use an ultimate, and by the time it is finished, be able to use it again.

I do like the proposed FC change, but I think the death radius would need to be increased substantially. It should be large enough to teleport between adjacent keeps, but no further. If I die at Alessia, I should be able to revive at Roebuck but not Ash.

Bipolo

Hear, hear!

Get someone in here to read this ASAP

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Atrahasis

Great write up. Completely agree.

Linkanton

very nice suggestions! Hopefully these reach the devs in some way

renton1x1x1

good work

Antirob

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
Would like your guy's opinion on this. Mainly on the AOE caps and forward camps.

Antirob

Also not sure if i mentioned it here but ill post it in this thread just to make sure. What would probably be the best choice of action regarding the ae cap would be to remove the cap on damage, but keep the current cap on cc's, healing, ult and ult gen.
- active abilities for armor . Removing the ability for players to use immovable would be a catastrophie. I believe a better idea would hard cap armor in light around 500 so cloth users would be weak to physical damage (cleave and steel tornado)

Majj

Good post. Need more ppl to comment this and make it visible.

Ultimate can be in some fights life saver and should be use carefully. Now you can just spam them.

Block should have same mechanic as sprint. You can't use skills while sprinting. You release block first and then cast spell.

And I totally agree on spells. Instant aoe spells should drain your macigka huge amount or put cast time on aoe spells. And aoe spell cannot be the most hardest hitting spell ever. Or it should also affect on friendly players.

ThyIronFist

Well said OP.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but I think the devs have given up with PvP in this game, I wonder if we're ever going to see the Imperial City... and even if we do see it, it will be ruined by AoE blobs that only farm AP all day long. I have given ZOS 6 months, and including my time spent Beta testing... I can honestly say that PvP has gone 1 step forward and 500 steps back. It's sad.

Joy_Division

This is a well thought out post. All of the issues here you raise deserve consideration. I hate to be one of those PvP vs. PvE people, but I think it should be pointed out that just about every example you bring up is Cyrodiil related and does not bring up possible ramifications in PvE content. As to your comments:

Ultimates: - I agree these should not be charged out of combat. I don't agree there should be a decay timer (especially if your proposed FC system is in place and I have to physically travel between objectives). Also, a decay system will dissuade players from trying to be strategic in dropping alts in fear of losing it. If legitimately earned, it would be very frustrating to not be able to use it.

Stealth - I find it very difficult to find NBs and I use magelight. I hear them complain on TeamSpeak that they get found too often but it is human nature to remember failures and forget successes. I am not a vampire and I find it VERY impractical to "traverse the fields of Cyrodiil" in stealth as you claim zergs are doing. If you have no gear or skills to aid stealth, you simply can't do this. You are exaggerating here. There is definitely a big difference in stealth efficiency here. That being said, I do agree with you that someone with no gear and no stealth has a relatively easy time getting into stealth and also are probably too difficult to detect.

Blocking - If you put a stamina drain on blocking, it is going to have an adverse effect on PvE content like dungeons and the arena. I am not a tank, but too often as a DPS or healer I draw aggro (and sometimes from a boss). My stamina is completely depleted in a matter of seconds trying to block/avoid getting killed as it is. I should not be punished for putting up a defensive posture and sacrificing my offense. Have you even tried Dragonstar Arena with someone who isn't a great tank? So I am absolutely against a stamina drain. That being said, I do agree with you that "block-casting" should simply not be possible. I think that alone would be sufficient to address you larger concern of "perma-blocking."


Forward Camps - Back in BETA when there were hundreds of people per faction in Cyrodiil and action everywhere, it was a much better environment for not having Forward Camps. Those days are gone. There are times I play on a server where there is maybe 40 blues, 30 yellows, and 20 reds (Chillrend NA those nights when Blue's supremacy is challenged for example). Red only has enough numbers to fight at one spot and yellow will need every body if blue contests an offensive. So there isn't action everywhere and quite frankly far too little action to begin with and I see far too much of empty Cyrodiil on my horse as it is. Restricting access to FCs would cripple the ability actually have enjoyable semi-epic battles in such an environment. If there was one server and enough numbers to return to the state of 'action everywhere," then I think some area restrictions (or maybe impose restrictions to players killed by NPCs...that's enough to solve the "blood-porting" technique) may be in order.

AOE and spam - I know it is the popular narrative here to cry that impulse spam is too strong, but this is way overstated. If people actually kept track of what is killing them in Cyrodiil instead of relying on their subjective frustrations, something akin to the scientific method we learned in 5th grade, then they would realize this. The most dangerous sorc builds in Cyrodiil don't even slot the ability on their bar. Their attack routine is light attack -curse - streak - light attack - proc crystal shards - light attack - crushing shock - light attack - endless fury. If you don't block that streak or the shards, you are dead (which is another reason draining while blocking will have unhappy consequences). The game needs an ability like impulse because many of the more difficult PvE encounters have huge amount of hard-hitting trash mobs that need to quickly die before a raid is wiped. Just try to run the Hel-Ra trial with only "skillful" abilities. And impulse isn't that hard to avoid in the first place, it is a point-blank ability used by an enemy who will seek the greatest concentration of enemies. I'm sorry but people who think they are victims of the impulse spam really need to actually read their death log or not just stand passively around their buddies. That being said, I do agree with you that it would be nice if some of the "positioning" abilities that you mention were stronger and gave us legitimate AOE options.

Active armor abilities - I don't have a problem with the current system encouraging flexibility. Players have a very limited number of skills they can use and I'm all for lots of options but few can be selected type of creativity. I don't really care when a light armor wearer pops immovable and quite frankly I cannot remember a single time in Cyrodiil where I felt that particular combination caused me to lose a fight that I otherwise would have won. And if by the off chance that has ever happened, congratulations to my opponent for dedicating a precious skill slot and using said skill effectively. I think this such complaint has more to do with people's preference for RPGs that restrict/limit skills than actual imbalances that make Cyrodiil an unfair environment to compete in. Also for people who think immovable is spammed by cloth armor wearers, please download FRAPS. It isn't.

Can you be more specific what is "animation canceling abuse"?

Cody

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is a well thought out post. All of the issues here you raise deserve consideration. I hate to be one of those PvP vs. PvE people, but I think it should be pointed out that just about every example you bring up is Cyrodiil related and does not bring up possible ramifications in PvE content. As to your comments:

Ultimates: - I agree these should not be charged out of combat. I don't agree there should be a decay timer (especially if your proposed FC system is in place and I have to physically travel between objectives). Also, a decay system will dissuade players from trying to be strategic in dropping alts in fear of losing it. If legitimately earned, it would be very frustrating to not be able to use it.

Stealth - I find it very difficult to find NBs and I use magelight. I hear them complain on TeamSpeak that they get found too often but it is human nature to remember failures and forget successes. I am not a vampire and I find it VERY impractical to "traverse the fields of Cyrodiil" in stealth as you claim zergs are doing. If you have no gear or skills to aid stealth, you simply can't do this. You are exaggerating here. There is definitely a big difference in stealth efficiency here. That being said, I do agree with you that someone with no gear and no stealth has a relatively easy time getting into stealth and also are probably too difficult to detect.

Blocking - If you put a stamina drain on blocking, it is going to have an adverse effect on PvE content like dungeons and the arena. I am not a tank, but too often as a DPS or healer I draw aggro (and sometimes from a boss). My stamina is completely depleted in a matter of seconds trying to block/avoid getting killed as it is. I should not be punished for putting up a defensive posture and sacrificing my offense. Have you even tried Dragonstar Arena with someone who isn't a great tank? So I am absolutely against a stamina drain. That being said, I do agree with you that "block-casting" should simply not be possible. I think that alone would be sufficient to address you larger concern of "perma-blocking."


Forward Camps - Back in BETA when there were hundreds of people per faction in Cyrodiil and action everywhere, it was a much better environment for not having Forward Camps. Those days are gone. There are times I play on a server where there is maybe 40 blues, 30 yellows, and 20 reds (Chillrend NA those nights when Blue's supremacy is challenged for example). Red only has enough numbers to fight at one spot and yellow will need every body if blue contests an offensive. So there isn't action everywhere and quite frankly far too little action to begin with and I see far too much of empty Cyrodiil on my horse as it is. Restricting access to FCs would cripple the ability actually have enjoyable semi-epic battles in such an environment. If there was one server and enough numbers to return to the state of 'action everywhere," then I think some area restrictions (or maybe impose restrictions to players killed by NPCs...that's enough to solve the "blood-porting" technique) may be in order.

AOE and spam - I know it is the popular narrative here to cry that impulse spam is too strong, but this is way overstated. If people actually kept track of what is killing them in Cyrodiil instead of relying on their subjective frustrations, something akin to the scientific method we learned in 5th grade, then they would realize this. The most dangerous sorc builds in Cyrodiil don't even slot the ability on their bar. Their attack routine is light attack -curse - streak - light attack - proc crystal shards - light attack - crushing shock - light attack - endless fury. If you don't block that streak or the shards, you are dead (which is another reason draining while blocking will have unhappy consequences). The game needs an ability like impulse because many of the more difficult PvE encounters have huge amount of hard-hitting trash mobs that need to quickly die before a raid is wiped. Just try to run the Hel-Ra trial with only "skillful" abilities. And impulse isn't that hard to avoid in the first place, it is a point-blank ability used by an enemy who will seek the greatest concentration of enemies. I'm sorry but people who think they are victims of the impulse spam really need to actually read their death log or not just stand passively around their buddies. That being said, I do agree with you that it would be nice if some of the "positioning" abilities that you mention were stronger and gave us legitimate AOE options.

Active armor abilities - I don't have a problem with the current system encouraging flexibility. Players have a very limited number of skills they can use and I'm all for lots of options but few can be selected type of creativity. I don't really care when a light armor wearer pops immovable and quite frankly I cannot remember a single time in Cyrodiil where I felt that particular combination caused me to lose a fight that I otherwise would have won. And if by the off chance that has ever happened, congratulations to my opponent for dedicating a precious skill slot and using said skill effectively. I think this such complaint has more to do with people's preference for RPGs that restrict/limit skills than actual imbalances that make Cyrodiil an unfair environment to compete in. Also for people who think immovable is spammed by cloth armor wearers, please download FRAPS. It isn't.

Can you be more specific what is "animation canceling abuse"?

there is not a huge difference in stealth between the classes. ALl the classes have the exact same stealth ability. the NB has a 2.5 second cloak, that is broken by magelight and potions, as well as just bugging out constantly.

don't defend it