Bow / PvP (Imbalanced, Exploitable, kills in less than 0.1s)

Thejollygreenone

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought I'd repost this video for more clarity on what is spoken of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I know what was spoken of. And as I said, relatively instant kills are pretty normal when specifically using fighters guild abilities against vampires and attacking particularly squishy targets. I still don't see a problem. I've had nonsneakers kill me as fast, and I've seen nonsneakers kill other as fast as you're complaining about. Doesn't make me think 'damn, these guys must be exploiting/severely imbalanced'. Makes me think, 'damn, that guy knows what he's doing'

Honestly, it's seeming a bit like you have a problem with the generally short time to kill in pvp in this game, because I don't see this being a bow exclusive problem. But hey, I suppose that's speculation. Regardless its clear that my input isn't welcome/understood here, so I'll take it elsewhere.

Good day sirs, have fun debating, I'll have fun pvping. Cheers.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

Bows need a damage cap of 800 End of story.

Kego

Stupid idea, End of story.
Snipe and it morphs just have to hit faster it's target, than you can`t go re-hide.
Problem solved of double Hide Hits.

Spangla

Umm - how else are you meant to kill people if you use a bow? the moment you are scene and locked onto your dead - so this is the only method you can use.

I have a max damage bow nightblade and this is how I kill people. In order to get that kind of damage build you have 0 defence so if we could now get a vid of a dk ambushing a bow user the bow user would also die in the same amount of time.

nap thread

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

The bow user wouldn't die in 0.1s. He would dodge-roll, mist-form, dodge-roll, mist-form and be away. If he is a NB, it's even easier with stealth.

Spangla

lol yea ok dude:) so obvious you've never played this build and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about:)

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Spangla wrote: »

lol yea ok dude:) so obvious you've never played this build and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about:)

Getting personal now because of out of arguments?

CapuchinSeven

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

I thought I'd repost this video for more clarity on what is spoken of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

...can I just be clear here before I mark you with a "lol"...

Are you honestly posting a video called, Vampire Hunter, of a player using Expert Hunter (Camouflaged Hunter) on... Vampires... and still wondering why they are dying in a few hits?

You can even see the blue numbers tick on his combat log showing he's killing Vampires with Expert Hunter! That's before we even get to the 9% weapon damage he's gaining from hitting a Vampire!

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

lol yea ok dude:) so obvious you've never played this build and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about:)

Getting personal now because of out of arguments?

No, he's making a statement based on your totally bat crazy points where you show you've got no idea what you're talking about.

Cody

so someone actually manages to find a way to beat the typical DK charge+ talons spam? well good for them.


just so you know, snipe is interruptible, so if he is not in stealth with it, like you seem to claim, then get a bow, unlock venom arrow, and hit that player with it, stunning them, then do your typical charge+ talons spam, and you will have him.

also, when you see him shoot snipe, Roll. You are A DK, I am going to assume you have impenetrable, so his sneak attacks should barley even touch you. When he damages you, use dragon blood. If he is using a heavy attack, and you have a bow, use venom arrow. Heavies are interruptible. if he is using a heavy attack up close, bash him. he will be stunned.

He is not a NB, so he cant use mark target to make you almost armorless, nor can he use cloak(if it works that is) so if you just roll, use dragon blood right, and knock him down when he runs out of resources and tries to run, then proceed to spam talons and flame whip, you will have him.

iv seen it done Many times.

Cody

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Bow user puts dragonknight in the ground; better nerf it.

Class doesn't matter in this case ^^ .

well you mentioned you use talons and charge. which is what 95% of DKs nowadays do. when you complain about someone beating the build almost every single DK uses, it will lead people to some conclusions you wont approve of

Cody

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit. Roll dodging does obviously help, and blocking does help to mitigate (I would also always use purge to get rid of any heal reduction) but on occasion a bow user will come along and more or less one shot you before you even know what is going on. The amount of damage they do most certainly has to be looked at.

But instead Zenimax is buffing them. Well, the wannabe Legolas among us will become ever more popular, I guess!

"Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge".

I've never, ever been killed by a bow user while I'm at full or close to full health.

I've been killed by bow users while I'm in the middle of a pack fighting with less than half health with my attention turned away, but I've also been killed in the same way by Sorcs and Crystal Fragments or by DK's lol charging and lash spamming.

You clearly didn't read what I said. "More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit". Sometimes for example I don't even hear a whistle sound but - bam - dead. Don't get me wrong I have very quickly learned how to counter these players, and provided I do recognise I am being sniped before they somehow one shot me they will almost certainly die. What I am saying is that on occasion you don't actually realise you are being hit before it is too late (thanks to animation cancelling).

Unfortunately I don't have enough stamina to dodge roll across the entirety of Cyrodiil. Even making the sound effect slightly clearer would be enough for me, because I could actually react. Take for instance NBs ambush, or a Sorc's frags. When they hit you you hear it, and see it very clearly. You don't even see bow attacks, and hearing them is intermittent, which makes it harder to counter than most other abilities in the game.

and the bow user does not have the stamina to use snipe that much.

snipe is not a cheap ability, even with all medium armor on with passives. spamming it will drain you

Cody

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

So - He ambushed you from sneak and you survived then he had to run away....

Sounds like your the one who needs the nerf to me:)

This is what dk's fail to get time and time again, the only way the bow can win is by being a "pro bow user" from sneak and still you survived? wtf is up with that lol you should not have survived!

Yes, ofc, someone who wears a Bow and attacks from stealth should be able to instant-kill everybody.

Bad troll.

actually, they should if you wear all LA like most people do.

if you are tired of bow users killing you so dang quickly, then stop wearing your robe and put on some steel.

Cody

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

your class can get a wooden stick, and, as long as you use green dragon blood, you can block 10+ people for a VERY long time. Pop banner, that's a good 10+ kills if the players stay in the banner(which most these days do)

if you are going to stop stealth builds from getting quick kills, then its time to stop your class from taking on entire groups alone.

Blackthorn51

In order to do that damage with a bow your enemy has to be completely unaware of your presence. You know how you counter a bow? By blocking. I use a bow and all too often my -sneak attack- is ruined by someone blocking or dodging. If I dont kill the person before the stun from stealthed lethal arrow ends - they usually go back to relatively full health very quickly and now that the element of surprise is gone, things are about to get real for the squishy NB.

Jacques Berge

Have you ever put hands on a NB archer glass cannon build? They're easily the squishy build in the entire game. To get those massive snipe hits you have to front load your toon with Stam/weapon damage. I fought a guy using the build... He did insane damage, killed me once or twice. However, once I got my hands on him I eviscerated him with very little effort. Being both NBs, we congratulated each other on quality kills... I give the guy props, he understood that, though he was super deadly, he was also incredibly squishy and stood no chance if he didn't get his sneak attack snipe.

Right there, is what's called a trade off... Incredible burst damage to next to no survivability.

Bow is usable by everyone... The reason you take so much damage is cause you're getting hit with three attacks at once... Snipe (cause it soars for about 2-4 secs depending on distance), heavy attack(loaded during the snipe flight) and venom arrow (fired immediately after the heavy attack) most likely.... So, it's not one hit, it's 3... And if it is one hit... Get more health or drop vamp.

martinhpb16_ESO

Garion wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I have very quickly learned how to counter these players, and provided I do recognise I am being sniped before they somehow one shot me they will almost certainly die.

Well then it doesn't need nerfing does it. Ever think how it is all situational and these said same snipers get massacred just as easily by other classes in certain situations?

morvegil

I call BS. Half the time i Snipe and the people have a damage shield. I'm a NB....if I dont kill a guy in the first few hits im dead. I have jack for heals and defense.

morvegil

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

Yeah a NB who specializes in stealth should be forced into close combat...yeah he'll win....LOL

themizario

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

how do you know the arrow is coming for you?

in a busy battle do you always block incase it is? When do you fight?

how do you hear lethal arrow?

It's sounds like pew pew

michaelb14a_ESO2

Cody wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

your class can get a wooden stick, and, as long as you use green dragon blood, you can block 10+ people for a VERY long time. Pop banner, that's a good 10+ kills if the players stay in the banner(which most these days do)

if you are going to stop stealth builds from getting quick kills, then its time to stop your class from taking on entire groups alone.

Right?! DK's have some serious epeen issues

Still_Mind

Cody wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

your class can get a wooden stick, and, as long as you use green dragon blood, you can block 10+ people for a VERY long time. Pop banner, that's a good 10+ kills if the players stay in the banner(which most these days do)

if you are going to stop stealth builds from getting quick kills, then its time to stop your class from taking on entire groups of stupid people alone.

Bolded the fix.

Armitas

Side note.
Don't forget you can talon him in mist form. He can't roll out of talons while in mist form either so you can lock him down until he decides to stop misting.

If you get them tab targeted before mist you can lock onto the mist and invade, range etc onto the mist.

kijima

Ermm... If DK and getting sniped, use reflective scales.

Job is done.

No bow user using snipe or venom arrow (the staples of a bow build) is going to kill you when using reflective scales, NONE!