Bow / PvP (Imbalanced, Exploitable, kills in less than 0.1s)

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

There is one player, who's name I won't give away, who really is a "Pro-Bow-user" . What he basically does afaik is, is to buff his weapon dmg as hard as possible (easy as a Sorc) , then he Snipes, while the Arrow flies he can go back into stealth to heavy Attack, and when Snipe + heavy attack hit, he can also add Venom Arrow on top followed by a light attack.

Now this players heavy attacks alone, deal over 1k of dmg. Add the dmg of a 2k+ snipe, player vanquished. Add the light attack and Venom arrow, player vanquished even without crit-luck 98% of the times. Add 2-4 times Camouflaged Hunter against Vampires, complete overkill.

I got attacked by that player today, I got lucky, survived with 5% (don't know why actually) . Team-mate got 1-shotted, and I saw that because I looked at the health bars at that moment, kill in less than 0.1s.

Tried to kill that player once he attacked someone standing directly beside me, no chance, because of no chance to follow him because of him getting increased speed from dodge-roll + having mist-form.
I have charge + Talons.

Plz fix this soon. Being able to go into stealth while Snipe flies, is wrong. Heavy attacks dealing more dmg than i. e. Crystal Fragment from a Sorc is bs. Being able to stack 4 attacks + proc to hit 6-8 times in 0.1s is just ridiculous.

Seraiel

eNumbra

Bow user puts dragonknight in the ground; better nerf it.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

eNumbra wrote: »

Bow user puts dragonknight in the ground; better nerf it.

Class doesn't matter in this case ^^ .

CapuchinSeven

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

Garion

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit. Roll dodging does obviously help, and blocking does help to mitigate (I would also always use purge to get rid of any heal reduction) but on occasion a bow user will come along and more or less one shot you before you even know what is going on. The amount of damage they do most certainly has to be looked at.

But instead Zenimax is buffing them. Well, the wannabe Legolas among us will become ever more popular, I guess!

CapuchinSeven

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit. Roll dodging does obviously help, and blocking does help to mitigate (I would also always use purge to get rid of any heal reduction) but on occasion a bow user will come along and more or less one shot you before you even know what is going on. The amount of damage they do most certainly has to be looked at.

But instead Zenimax is buffing them. Well, the wannabe Legolas among us will become ever more popular, I guess!

"Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge".

I've never, ever been killed by a bow user while I'm at full or close to full health.

I've been killed by bow users while I'm in the middle of a pack fighting with less than half health with my attention turned away, but I've also been killed in the same way by Sorcs and Crystal Fragments or by DK's lol charging and lash spamming.

Garion

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit. Roll dodging does obviously help, and blocking does help to mitigate (I would also always use purge to get rid of any heal reduction) but on occasion a bow user will come along and more or less one shot you before you even know what is going on. The amount of damage they do most certainly has to be looked at.

But instead Zenimax is buffing them. Well, the wannabe Legolas among us will become ever more popular, I guess!

"Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge".

I've never, ever been killed by a bow user while I'm at full or close to full health.

I've been killed by bow users while I'm in the middle of a pack fighting with less than half health with my attention turned away, but I've also been killed in the same way by Sorcs and Crystal Fragments or by DK's lol charging and lash spamming.

You clearly didn't read what I said. "More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit". Sometimes for example I don't even hear a whistle sound but - bam - dead. Don't get me wrong I have very quickly learned how to counter these players, and provided I do recognise I am being sniped before they somehow one shot me they will almost certainly die. What I am saying is that on occasion you don't actually realise you are being hit before it is too late (thanks to animation cancelling).

Unfortunately I don't have enough stamina to dodge roll across the entirety of Cyrodiil. Even making the sound effect slightly clearer would be enough for me, because I could actually react. Take for instance NBs ambush, or a Sorc's frags. When they hit you you hear it, and see it very clearly. You don't even see bow attacks, and hearing them is intermittent, which makes it harder to counter than most other abilities in the game.

CapuchinSeven

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit. Roll dodging does obviously help, and blocking does help to mitigate (I would also always use purge to get rid of any heal reduction) but on occasion a bow user will come along and more or less one shot you before you even know what is going on. The amount of damage they do most certainly has to be looked at.

But instead Zenimax is buffing them. Well, the wannabe Legolas among us will become ever more popular, I guess!

"Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge".

I've never, ever been killed by a bow user while I'm at full or close to full health.

I've been killed by bow users while I'm in the middle of a pack fighting with less than half health with my attention turned away, but I've also been killed in the same way by Sorcs and Crystal Fragments or by DK's lol charging and lash spamming.

You clearly didn't read what I said. "More often than not, you are dead before you even realise you are being hit". Sometimes for example I don't even hear a whistle sound but - bam - dead. Don't get me wrong I have very quickly learned how to counter these players, and provided I do recognise I am being sniped before they somehow one shot me they will almost certainly die. What I am saying is that on occasion you don't actually realise you are being hit before it is too late (thanks to animation cancelling).

Unfortunately I don't have enough stamina to dodge roll across the entirety of Cyrodiil. Even making the sound effect slightly clearer would be enough for me, because I could actually react. Take for instance NBs ambush, or a Sorc's frags. When they hit you you hear it, and see it very clearly. You don't even see bow attacks, and hearing them is intermittent, which makes it harder to counter than most other abilities in the game.

So bored of posts like this in MMOs, "It's OP but it's not a L2P issue because I know how to counter it, but it's OP because sometimes I die to something quickly."

Kego

It is only balanced if you can beat at least 3 others at once. If not, others are OP.

R0M2K

...

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

i got 1 shotted today.snipe hit me for 1999 in cyrodiil. Of course i was hit by a fire impulse like 6 seconds earlier and wasn't blocking. Didnt even see the marked target on me.

Saet

So you know how to counter it and usually kill the said bow user, but sometimes when you arent paying enough attention you get killed by it. Yeah that sounds like it needs nerfing.
You want a big red warning flag over the archer so you can rush them and talon spam and whip them to death?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Hear the whistle, hold block or roll dodge, lol at bow user.

how do you know the arrow is coming for you?

in a busy battle do you always block incase it is? When do you fight?

how do you hear lethal arrow?

aco5712

here is an idea, why dont you get some armour and stop complaining. Run around in your dress and see why you need armour when archers pop you. 1 more buff to bow and we will see hardly anymore 7/7 LA.

eliisra

Saet wrote: »

So you know how to counter it and usually kill the said bow user, but sometimes when you arent paying enough attention you get killed by it. Yeah that sounds like it needs nerfing.
You want a big red warning flag over the archer so you can rush them and talon spam and whip them to death?

Give me a break lol. There's not way to know when a macro-abuser is going to use a bow sneak rotation on you in large scale PvP. There's hundreds of skills, sieges and animations going if in the area every second. Suddenly you're cc'ed, debuffed and hit with Lethal arrow, Light attack and Venom arrow simultaneously. That burst is not balanced. It's a free kill, unless your target happens to stand next to a healer with quick reflexes.

Bow needs better sustained, better AoE and survivability. It should be on par with staffs as a ranged dps weapon. But the sneak burst in PvP, that stuff needs toning down. No other weapon comes with 1.9k auto crits.

michaelb14a_ESO2

eliisra wrote: »

Saet wrote: »

So you know how to counter it and usually kill the said bow user, but sometimes when you arent paying enough attention you get killed by it. Yeah that sounds like it needs nerfing.
You want a big red warning flag over the archer so you can rush them and talon spam and whip them to death?

Give me a break lol. There's not way to know when a macro-abuser is going to use a bow sneak rotation on you in large scale PvP. There's hundreds of skills, sieges and animations going if in the area every second. Suddenly you're cc'ed, debuffed and hit with Lethal arrow, Light attack and Venom arrow simultaneously. That burst is not balanced.

So let me get this straight. You want to balance the game around macro abusers?

Seriously?

Saet

eliisra wrote: »

Give me a break lol. There's not way to know when a macro-abuser is going to use a bow sneak rotation on you in large scale PvP. There's hundreds of skills, sieges and animations going if in the area every second. Suddenly you're cc'ed, debuffed and hit with Lethal arrow, Light attack and Venom arrow simultaneously. That burst is not balanced. It's a free kill, unless your target happens to stand next to a healer with quick reflexes.

Bow needs better sustained, better AoE and survivability. It should be on par with staffs as a ranged dps weapon. But the sneak burst in PvP, that stuff needs toning down. No other weapon comes with 1.9k auto crits.

Sorry, I'm grouchy! 2H can do crits that hard as well. Its just damn hard to sneak up close enough to do it. I wouldnt mind them toning it down if they did in fact up its sustain and aoe damage.

Kego

eliisra wrote: »

Bow needs better sustained, better AoE and survivability. It should be on par with staffs as a ranged dps weapon. But the sneak burst in PvP, that stuff needs toning down. No other weapon comes with 1.9k auto crits.

Oh, Staff is a ranged DPS Weapon? Strange, always I see Staffs, they stay next to me Spamming Melee Range AOEs...

No other weapon comes with 1.9k auto crits.

Crystal Shards with Instant Procc easy can get to 1.5k+ DMG together and that during combat, something Bows can't get to, once out of hidden. And I *** hate that random passive finisher of Sorcerer, where you get hit for ~1.5k Crystal shards and than the Desintegrate for 1k+.

And yes, with Dual Wield I can 1.8k crit you with Surprise Attack out of Hidden, but yeah, Bow ofc. is much safer with it's 35 yards range.

aco5712

2 handers can get 2.5k hits from stealth if you spec right but like said above its riskier, but bows definetly don't need a nerfe It's just people need to start wearing armour. Dk have it easy coz they need spiked armour to cap and that's just 1 skill instead of sacrificing armour slots

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Armor doesn't help. The healer I told of had 2k armor, still got 1-shotted. The problem is, that we're talking about bursts of 4k+ because multiple skills are stacked and we talk about multiple surprise attacks with multiple procs of Camouflaged hunter.

The problem is really the "technique" whith which the pro-Bow-user work, stacking 3-4 attacks to 1 shouldn't be possible.

Saet

Stacking cc type effects shouldnt be either but they are. There is a lot that needs some fixing here.

Kego

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Armor doesn't help. The healer I told of had 2k armor, still got 1-shotted. The problem is, that we're talking about bursts of 4k+ because multiple skills are stacked and we talk about multiple surprise attacks with multiple procs of Camouflaged hunter.

The problem is really the "technique" whith which the pro-Bow-user work, stacking 3-4 attacks to 1 shouldn't be possible.

Well sounds like Vampire owns a Vampire. You can`t restealth until the arrow hits your enemy as Human. Only Vampires gets the improved speed to get back in hidden during night time.

Baphomet

Snipe - heavy attack - venom - light - venom -light etc. is how all bow users play. That's how archery has been since beta.

More players are adding camouflaged hunter to the mix now though.

So this rotation is the oldest in the book, to be honest. Where is became devastating was when they raised the weapon soft cap to 190 and added twice as much weapon damage to item sets as magicka damage.

I don't think it has dawned on many people yet that stamina is the best burst damage resource in game right now - in PvP. Strange when stamina management was the issue they had to address.

Buuut, being zenimax and all....

Kego

SpellDMG is lower than WeaponDMG, cause you need less SpellDMG to raise your DMG of Skills than with WeaponDMG.

And a Sorc with a double Crystal Fragment has as well a great Burst potential and that always during fights, not only with an opener.

What is possible if the Burst gets to big is, that Snipe gets a DMG increase but Bow will lose it's Sneak Bonus from its first Hit.

Spangla

So - He ambushed you from sneak and you survived then he had to run away....

Sounds like your the one who needs the nerf to me:)

This is what dk's fail to get time and time again, the only way the bow can win is by being a "pro bow user" from sneak and still you survived? wtf is up with that lol you should not have survived!

Thechemicals

Radiant magelight. Close thread. thanks.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Spangla wrote: »

So - He ambushed you from sneak and you survived then he had to run away....

Sounds like your the one who needs the nerf to me:)

This is what dk's fail to get time and time again, the only way the bow can win is by being a "pro bow user" from sneak and still you survived? wtf is up with that lol you should not have survived!

Yes, ofc, someone who wears a Bow and attacks from stealth should be able to instant-kill everybody.

Bad troll.

Thejollygreenone

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

So - He ambushed you from sneak and you survived then he had to run away....

Sounds like your the one who needs the nerf to me:)

This is what dk's fail to get time and time again, the only way the bow can win is by being a "pro bow user" from sneak and still you survived? wtf is up with that lol you should not have survived!

Yes, ofc, someone who wears a Bow and attacks from stealth should be able to instant-kill everybody.

Bad troll.

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

Thejollygreenone

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

You neglect to realize for those who specialize in stealth, you either kill pretty immediately or you lose the fight because the enemy can outlast you, presumably from the advantages they gain from not having to specialize in stealth.

Bad strawman argument.

Instant kills should never be possible, and you forget, that someone using a bow can very well switch to melee-weapons and go close combat.

Also, I survived with 5%, I would have been dead would he only have shotten once more, which he didn't, because I stood between 20 people.

Do you think any class or combination of anything should have the possibility to kill for certain without the other side having any chance?

I didn't argue for instant kills, again you seem to be either strawmanning or just misunderstanding me. I said pretty immediately. By that I mean:

Stealthers should be able to kill generally squishy targets within a reasonable duration after the initial stealth stun, if not within that stun. A reasonable duration to me is something like this:

12-15 seconds should be typical against averagely defensed enemies (~3k hp, heals and absorb shields or stamina equivilants at the ready), 30 seconds against extra stubborn enemies in which death is highly possible. 2-4 seconds against lower level enemies and the extremely squishy.

Thats the way I see a stealth specialized character working in pvp, and what I mean by pretty immediately, it's pretty relative I suppose.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

I thought I'd repost this video for more clarity on what is spoken of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ