Templar dps

Troponin

I realize that templar dps is greatly lacking, but I would still like to optimize as much as possible. Currently I am running 5 piece seducer and Warlock, and a 2 piece syrabane, with spell damage enchants on accessories. (Warlock accessories are stupidly overpriced atm).

I just cant seem to figure out how to break in to the sustained700 dps range. Is it really not possible? I am using reflective light and Puncturing sweep. If I try to use blacklash, it simply comes down so fast that I would be left just spamming it because it has a max damage that is met almost immediately in trials.

Any suggestions or a guide would be great. There is almost nothing out there giving a good guuide for anything non-PvP related with the Templar, and I can imagine it's because no one does anything but heal with a templar. We are not doing timed runs atm, just clearing, and want the best dps. There are times when I switch from healing to dps for an encounter.

In the meantime, I am leveling my Sorc to be the back up dps, since the Templar can't do it. My sorc is VR6 and already breaking 700 dps.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Ff you want real dps you ll choose dk or nb, sorc is in the same fate as templar in matters of dps.

xMovingTarget

seducer, warlock and syrabane is probably one of the worst setups you can use for dps though.

With that you lack some heavy crit chance and spelldamage. No wonder you cant DPS I all the time see DD Templars with 1k dps at least in trials. But i cant tell you the build they use, since i just dont know. i am not playing templar.

But for gear setup use 4x Aether(Trial drop) if you dont have it yet get 4x willow path instead, 4x twilight embrace and either warlock jewelry or the better choice Soulshine v10 rings and neck. Than you are at least fit as DD with your gear.

Troponin

xMovingTarget wrote: »

seducer, warlock and syrabane is probably one of the worst setups you can use for dps though.

With that you lack some heavy crit chance and spelldamage. No wonder you cant DPS I all the time see DD Templars with 1k dps at least in trials. But i cant tell you the build they use, since i just dont know. i am not playing templar.

But for gear setup use 4x Aether(Trial drop) if you dont have it yet get 4x willow path instead, 4x twilight embrace and either warlock jewelry or the better choice Soulshine v10 rings and neck. Than you are at least fit as DD with your gear.

Thanks. So one of the struggles that I have is, from my experience, puncturing sweeps scales off of weapon crit, where as everything else scales off of spell crit. So I assume, if I spam puncturing sweeps, then I need to stack weapon crit.

The patch is right around the corner, so I wont change things out yet, but I will def consider this for VR14

Troponin

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ff you want real dps you ll choose dk or nb, sorc is in the same fate as templar in matters of dps.

I thought NB dps was low as well. I was under the impression Sorcs beat them. DId this change in a patch?

I assume the NB dps comes from a dress and stick?

tplink3r1

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ff you want real dps you ll choose dk or nb, sorc is in the same fate as templar in matters of dps.

nice try, but they wont buff your sorc because of this.

xMovingTarget

Yea DK and NB lead the DPS race. followed by Sorc and then Temp. In that order.

OP, as far as i noticed it, most templars with good DPS are using a crushing shock build. So Destro Staff.

Tamanous

I do not think that Templar will ever be on par when built as a magic caster. Their heals are too powerful.

The only way a Tempar will do competitive dps will likely be through stamina builds once further balancing for those weapons are added. This allows them to be a dps build without making their self healing and support too powerful.

If you took skirt and stick for Templar dps because it's "the only powerful build in ESO" atm them you likely made the wrong choice. I simply do not think ZoS can look past the fact that they are powerful healers as well especially when geared for it.

Troponin

Bump.

So far I am not seeing anything that is steering me in the direction of how to achieve any kind of dps. Puncturing sweeps scales from weapon crit, so am I to assume I need to stack weapon damage and crit?

Khivas_Carrick

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Ff you want real dps you ll choose dk or nb, sorc is in the same fate as templar in matters of dps.

You are literally the first person I have EVER heard say that Sorcs are bad for DPS.

Khivas_Carrick

Also PS scales off Spell Power, I know this because stacking Spell Damage and Magicka made it's damage go up, however I do not know of Weapon Crit affecting it or not, so some clarity would be nice, although I might be able to guess the answer.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Tamanous wrote: »

I do not think that Templar will ever be on par when built as a magic caster. Their heals are too powerful.

The only way a Tempar will do competitive dps will likely be through stamina builds once further balancing for those weapons are added. This allows them to be a dps build without making their self healing and support too powerful.

If you took skirt and stick for Templar dps because it's "the only powerful build in ESO" atm them you likely made the wrong choice. I simply do not think ZoS can look past the fact that they are powerful healers as well especially when geared for it.

This is a very good point. I'd add though, that templars can't get any big dps boost as long as they have *permanent* access to their full healing capabilities. That doesn't exclude "stance toggles" like "your magicka damage is increased by 20% while your healing is reduced by 30%".

Many games went that route because of the very same reasons, and I think it works quite well most of the time. I'd actually like to see more of it in different areas, like maybe DKs losing some of their baseline inherent tankyness in favor of dedicated toggles with a damage penalty.

Kot

Would be nice to hear some words from the devs about promised templars single-target dps improvement.

Pmarsico9

I've tested this somewhat, but the results are always bad.

This much I can tell you for certain:

Light Armor in all slots. Resto Staff Single Target, Destro Staff AoE. PS scales off weapon crit, but spell power, but ultimately even Biting Jabs isn't that great. The caveat being that there's a Templar on here who swears by two handed and medium armor, but I personally have found those results awful. Puncturing strikes spam isn't sustainable in medium armor, and if you are going to go weapon based that isn't a bow, it's going to put you in a bad spot to sustain any damage at all when you have to run away (melee severely sucks in ESO for sustained DPS.)

From there I've tried multiple things.

AoE seems to remain static on my tests whether I mix in Spear Shards or just stick with Unstable Wall and Impulse.

Single target I've been messing with a loadout of Entropy, Vamp's Bane, Backlash, Dark Flare, and Power of Light using a Resto staff. I'm trying to figure out if Dark Flare's worth it's slot, or if it's better to simply use Spear Shards. With the problem with Spear Shards obviously being that you don't always get all the ticks before the target moves or has to be moved. Same goes for any thoughts of using Scalding Rune.

So it probably will end up being higher if it's an unmoving target.

The issue with Dark Flare is the cast time and generally bad scaling. In that same amount of time you can animation cancel two heavy attacks, which gain damage from Power of the Light using a resto staff.

So that is leading me to believe that Soul Trap may actually be better because of how DoTs play with Backlash. Basically pop entropy for Might of the Guild, toss out Vamp's Bane, Put up Soul Trap, Put up Backlash, spam resto staff attacks. Remember, Staff attacks scale off weapon damage SPELL CRIT, and max magicka.

I refuse to go vamp or WW (because I am really somebody who wants to tank, just waiting for tanks to not be worthless so often) so I use Soul Assault ST and Gravity Crush AOE. Soul Strike does play well with Backlash and the DoTs as well.

You will want to soft cap spell damage, stack spell crit (divines on everything you can and Thief Stone,) then push for weapon damage.

It still sucks though. This doesn't work well compared to the other classes at all.

As for gear, I'm currently trying 5 piece Torug's Pact, 5 piece Silks of the Sun to bolster AoE when I have to.

But it's still junk. It's not bad......it's reeaaaaaalllly reallly bad.

Troponin

What a shame. I guess the Templar was never meant to be a dps. With the silent treatment zenimax is giving on the subject, we can only assume that is the situation.

I guess the changes they made to make them decent soloers was all we could expect

Pmarsico9

Troponin wrote: »

What a shame. I guess the Templar was never meant to be a dps. With the silent treatment zenimax is giving on the subject, we can only assume that is the situation.

I guess the changes they made to make them decent soloers was all we could expect

With that said, this thread is a good place to discuss theorycraft. I am wondering if anybody else has had better luck than me with a caster/stave based Templar. I can't see how anything can keep up with the Resto Staff's passive 10% flat increase due to how quickly stats cap.

So I'm automatically very skeptical on any single target build that doesn't use that.

Same goes for AoE builds not using the destruction staff.

Tankqull

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I can't see how anything can keep up with the Resto Staff's passive 10% flat increase due to how quickly stats cap.
So I'm automatically very skeptical on any single target build that doesn't use that.

well you have to have skills to be used when using a resto staff as it doesent provide any - and even including the bonus+class skills you´ll see stamina builds with 2h provide more dps...

Pmarsico9

Tankqull wrote: »

Well you have to have skills to be used when using a resto staff as it doesent provide any - and even including the bonus+class skills you´ll see stamina builds with 2h provide more dps...

I mentioned you earlier on in the thread:

The caveat being that there's a Templar on here who swears by two handed and medium armor

Feel free to chime in and explain how your build works. I remain skeptical and am not going to engage in another argument as to why this doesn't work unless you are going to point out some way to make Radiant Aura amazing for stamina-based weapon's builds.

I have never been able to fully explain to you that if this works, then it should work for every class because there's nothing that makes this a standout build. A DK in my guild is holding 2.3K single target now.

Tankqull

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Feel free to chime in and explain how your build works. I remain skeptical and am not going to engage in another argument as to why this doesn't work unless you are going to point out some way to make Radiant Aura amazing for stamina-based weapon's builds.

I have never been able to fully explain to you that if this works, then it should work for every class because there's nothing that makes this a standout build. A DK in my guild is holding 2.3K single target now.

hehe you´ve miss understood me - ive never said that a stamina build will be enpair with builds of other classes all i´ve said is that templar stamina builds are better than templar magica builds, but still are by far inferior to any other class build.
in short:
every non temp build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>temp stam>temp magica.

Pmarsico9

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Feel free to chime in and explain how your build works. I remain skeptical and am not going to engage in another argument as to why this doesn't work unless you are going to point out some way to make Radiant Aura amazing for stamina-based weapon's builds.

I have never been able to fully explain to you that if this works, then it should work for every class because there's nothing that makes this a standout build. A DK in my guild is holding 2.3K single target now.

hehe you´ve miss understood me - ive never said that a stamina build will be enpair with builds of other classes all i´ve said is that templar stamina builds are better than templar magica builds, but still are by far inferior to any other class build.
in short:
every non temp build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>temp stam>temp magica.

Just curious, but is it that a two handed stam build in general is better than Templar "Caster" type builds or do you actively use Radiant Aura to support Stam recovery and Puncturing strikes with a high level of weapon crit which is what makes Templar's better with stamina based builds?

Teloran

You may want to try Blazing Spear. Each of the six ticks of the DoT and the initial hit can proc Burning Light, making it one of the Templar's best damage per action skills.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Troponin wrote: »

I realize that templar dps is greatly lacking

Depends. Are we talking about single target or AoE? PvE or PvP?
PvE for single target yes, is pretty bad. However trash AoE mop up is not. Possibly the only class that can mop up 10 mobs, laugh at their corpses and tank them all at the same time.

PVP. Cyrodiil, I will take my Templar over any other class I have. In small battles can deal with 2 enemies. In 1 vs 1 only some cloth NBs can kill him.
Dragonknights especially, are food even when coming in Emperor or ex Emperor , Vampires or not "flavours". And that as a Khajiit.
Altmer are much more powerful Templars.

Nidwin

Not going to comment on the DPS aspect as for me , my actual templar dps is more than enough for soloing all the PVE stuff I'm aiming for.
I'm a Cyrodill main healer so dps isn't my priority

It's about the Warlock set
The nerf and the need of 5 pieces for the mana return made me drop it in favor of cost reduction of my skills on the jewelry. Also because of the drop of the Warlock set I was able to focus on a 5 pieces + 3 pieces crafted set that suited better my needs.
For me it did made a huge difference so maybe for a better sustained dps output some of you could give it a try.

Tankqull

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Feel free to chime in and explain how your build works. I remain skeptical and am not going to engage in another argument as to why this doesn't work unless you are going to point out some way to make Radiant Aura amazing for stamina-based weapon's builds.

I have never been able to fully explain to you that if this works, then it should work for every class because there's nothing that makes this a standout build. A DK in my guild is holding 2.3K single target now.

hehe you´ve miss understood me - ive never said that a stamina build will be enpair with builds of other classes all i´ve said is that templar stamina builds are better than templar magica builds, but still are by far inferior to any other class build.
in short:
every non temp build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>temp stam>temp magica.

Just curious, but is it that a two handed stam build in general is better than Templar "Caster" type builds or do you actively use Radiant Aura to support Stam recovery and Puncturing strikes with a high level of weapon crit which is what makes Templar's better with stamina based builds?

the problem is our class dps skills suck. compared with the skills other classes provide, in the same step beside "balanced warrior" we have absolutly no synergy between any weapon/skill-line. [and personaly i´m fine with that as templar healing is making up for it]
puncturing strikes is the worst thing you can do when you want to achiev dps - its an awesome skill when you are solo but utter garbage in a group fight.
the point is our skills are at best used as fillers or additional dps - the singeltarget dps of destro staff (without class synergies like DK burn effect, sorc desintegration etc) is extreamly low, and the dps of restostaff is nearly non existant if you do not have class skills providing the dps.
so in the end we are stuck to stamina builds primarily 2h as it provides templars with an executioner, and by far the highest dps you can achiev as a templar especially when you have a bit of group support like luminous shards provided by another templar (who eg fills a healing spot -> ~1100 stamina/400magica refill every 5-8sec) in combination with radiant aura you can completly neglect regen stats in your equip as youll be overcapped anyway.

my best dps was with that build but i´m still behind the 1,8-2k++ DPS other classes can reach but atleast you are not compleatly useless [with 1,5k when supported by another templar providing luminous shards every now and then warhorn was provided by another raid member so i could slot nova].
4x torug , 4x twilight, 3x pvp jewlery (tp/crit), thief, 2h axe
[edit] i know strange set setup for a melee, but weapon dmg is heavily overcapped anyway, the spell dmg/spell crit gives you a bit more dmg on your class skills (burning light procs) and the dot of cleave, and the axe internal bleed.

Pmarsico9

Teloran wrote: »

You may want to try Blazing Spear. Each of the six ticks of the DoT and the initial hit can proc Burning Light, making it one of the Templar's best damage per action skills.

That's a given. The issue is that mobs can be moved out of it and if the mob needs moved, then the mob needs moved. Since Burning Light is a 50% proc rate with no modifier, it's ultimately roulette, which is very lame.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Troponin wrote: »

I realize that templar dps is greatly lacking

Depends. Are we talking about single target or AoE? PvE or PvP?
PvE for single target yes, is pretty bad. However trash AoE mop up is not. Possibly the only class that can mop up 10 mobs, laugh at their corpses and tank them all at the same time.

PVP. Cyrodiil, I will take my Templar over any other class I have. In small battles can deal with 2 enemies. In 1 vs 1 only some cloth NBs can kill him.
Dragonknights especially, are food even when coming in Emperor or ex Emperor , Vampires or not "flavours". And that as a Khajiit.
Altmer are much more powerful Templars.

AoE DPS is largely inconsequential. Impulse/wall spam is infinitely more powerful from a pure DPS standpoint due to the sustainability and lack of reliance on Burning Light's AoE proc. However, Puncturing Sweep is remarkable regarding healing when tanking or soloing. A bigger issue is that it doesn't scale off spell crit or weapon damage, which is ridiculous.

My best suggestion regarding that spell is to simply put a big fat threat modifier on it and entrench Templar tanking as unique compared to that of DK's who are preferred due to CC. Tanking overall, as a role, needs major help, though.

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Feel free to chime in and explain how your build works. I remain skeptical and am not going to engage in another argument as to why this doesn't work unless you are going to point out some way to make Radiant Aura amazing for stamina-based weapon's builds.

I have never been able to fully explain to you that if this works, then it should work for every class because there's nothing that makes this a standout build. A DK in my guild is holding 2.3K single target now.

hehe you´ve miss understood me - ive never said that a stamina build will be enpair with builds of other classes all i´ve said is that templar stamina builds are better than templar magica builds, but still are by far inferior to any other class build.
in short:
every non temp build >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>temp stam>temp magica.

Just curious, but is it that a two handed stam build in general is better than Templar "Caster" type builds or do you actively use Radiant Aura to support Stam recovery and Puncturing strikes with a high level of weapon crit which is what makes Templar's better with stamina based builds?

the problem is our class dps skills suck. compared with the skills other classes provide, in the same step beside "balanced warrior" we have absolutly no synergy between any weapon/skill-line

I completely agree. But my question is if you use Radiant Aura as a boost for Stamina Recovery without having to actually put any stamina recovery on your gear.

It is worth noting that Impulse, Wall of Elements, and Crushing Shock do in fact scale off weapon damage. So in those particular cases, Balanced Warrior does boost their damage, too. But there's an overpowered element to it, because staves are the only weapons that scale off weapon damage AND magicka. Which is a very large reason why Bathrobe builds are so much more potent.

As I said earlier, being tied to a melee weapon is a major negative in this game. So many boss damage abilities radiate outwards from the boss and even when they don't, staves lose nothing at melee range.

Our class DPS skills are terrible. But I'm trying VERY HARD to come up with something that makes Backlash/power of light work.

Have you tried Power of Light for the weapon damage bonus in your two-handed build? It should buff your damage as that bonus does appear to only apply to the Templar's attacks, where as Dark Flare/Solar Barrage's can be eaten by anybody else's attack.

Tankqull

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I completely agree. But my question is if you use Radiant Aura as a boost for Stamina Recovery without having to actually put any stamina recovery on your gear.

jep its sole purpose is to grant capped regenrates.

As I said earlier, being tied to a melee weapon is a major negative in this game. So many boss damage abilities radiate outwards from the boss and even when they don't, staves lose nothing at melee range.

thats true - but from my expereance its still superior to staff dmg (maybe im to dump to use destro abilities ^^ eventually i will give bow a try as an range option at some point the agillty changes encourage that)

Our class DPS skills are terrible. But I'm trying VERY HARD to come up with something that makes Backlash/power of light work.

Have you tried Power of Light for the weapon damage bonus in your two-handed build? It should buff your damage as that bonus does appear to only apply to the Templar's attacks, where as Dark Flare/Solar Barrage's can be eaten by anybody else's attack.

atleast the patchnotes state that they fixed the stackability of different backlash mophs as it was the only way to even have the slightest reason to not deny more then one templar.
beside that yes the linked build used PotL for exactly that reason as you have to scrape for every tiny bit of dmg you can gather as a templar to be more than a liability.

Pmarsico9

Tankqull wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I completely agree. But my question is if you use Radiant Aura as a boost for Stamina Recovery without having to actually put any stamina recovery on your gear.

jep its sole purpose is to grant capped regenrates.

As I said earlier, being tied to a melee weapon is a major negative in this game. So many boss damage abilities radiate outwards from the boss and even when they don't, staves lose nothing at melee range.

thats true - but from my expereance its still superior to staff dmg (maybe im to dump to use destro abilities ^^ eventually i will give bow a try as an range option at some point the agillty changes encourage that)

Our class DPS skills are terrible. But I'm trying VERY HARD to come up with something that makes Backlash/power of light work.

Have you tried Power of Light for the weapon damage bonus in your two-handed build? It should buff your damage as that bonus does appear to only apply to the Templar's attacks, where as Dark Flare/Solar Barrage's can be eaten by anybody else's attack.

atleast the patchnotes state that they fixed the stackability of different backlash mophs as it was the only way to even have the slightest reason to not deny more then one templar.
beside that yes the linked build used PotL for exactly that reason as you have to scrape for every tiny bit of dmg you can gather as a templar to be more than a liability.

Thanks. I will try this build if I ever decide to level medium armor.

BugCollector

Tamanous wrote: »

I do not think that Templar will ever be on par when built as a magic caster. Their heals are too powerful.

The only way a Tempar will do competitive dps will likely be through stamina builds once further balancing for those weapons are added. This allows them to be a dps build without making their self healing and support too powerful.

If you took skirt and stick for Templar dps because it's "the only powerful build in ESO" atm them you likely made the wrong choice. I simply do not think ZoS can look past the fact that they are powerful healers as well especially when geared for it.

Well, Dragonknights have a more powerful self-heal (Green Dragon Blood) than Templars AND better DPS.

If you don't believe me, try ganking a Dragonknight in PvP, then a Templar. see who lasts longest...

Troponin

BugCollector wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

I do not think that Templar will ever be on par when built as a magic caster. Their heals are too powerful.

The only way a Tempar will do competitive dps will likely be through stamina builds once further balancing for those weapons are added. This allows them to be a dps build without making their self healing and support too powerful.

If you took skirt and stick for Templar dps because it's "the only powerful build in ESO" atm them you likely made the wrong choice. I simply do not think ZoS can look past the fact that they are powerful healers as well especially when geared for it.

Well, Dragonknights have a more powerful self-heal (Green Dragon Blood) than Templars AND better DPS.

If you don't believe me, try ganking a Dragonknight in PvP, then a Templar. see who lasts longest...

That's due to breath of life's extremely high magicka cost.

BugCollector

Troponin wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

I do not think that Templar will ever be on par when built as a magic caster. Their heals are too powerful.

The only way a Tempar will do competitive dps will likely be through stamina builds once further balancing for those weapons are added. This allows them to be a dps build without making their self healing and support too powerful.

If you took skirt and stick for Templar dps because it's "the only powerful build in ESO" atm them you likely made the wrong choice. I simply do not think ZoS can look past the fact that they are powerful healers as well especially when geared for it.

Well, Dragonknights have a more powerful self-heal (Green Dragon Blood) than Templars AND better DPS.

If you don't believe me, try ganking a Dragonknight in PvP, then a Templar. see who lasts longest...

That's due to breath of life's extremely high magicka cost.

Suuuurrrrreeee...

Khivas_Carrick

Well I'm sure that mana cost has something to do with it a little lol