Remove Magicka regeneration drain of [Inferno - Sea of Flames - Flames of Oblivion]

christopher.wieser.cwb16_ESO

Hey folks,

I would like to hear your opinion about this skill and a simple balancing suggestion.

Currently this skill cuts your magicka regeneration off and drains a certain amount of magicka per second.
Negating your magicka reg, makes this skill utterly useless, so the simple suggestion is to remove this drain, to make this skill usefull.

It hurts a bit, because i like the idea behind that skill and the particle effects are also really nice.

Since the templars got their magicka reg drain from blazing shield removed, this would just be fair!

for clarification:

Unmorphed:
Deals amount [x] dmg per second.
Costs amount [x] magicka per second.
Drains your magicka regeneration to 0. (I am asking for removing this)

Flames of Oblivion:
Adds 10-13% spell and weapon crit for targets in range.

Sea of Flames:
Gain ~115 Magicka for every Enemy that dies in the flames.

EDIT: added skilldescription

Phinix1

[Keep]

Sorry, but I am not for giving magicka DK's infinite uber death capabilities.

Think about it. Stacking crit and Mage Light with Shields and Green Dragon Blood and just running into a zerg in PVP spamming abilities with no additional penalty for that extra AOE DoT and 10% crit? Yeah, that sounds fair.

What's more, it effects weapon AND spell crit. So, animation cancelling a class AOE and Pulsar/Ring will BOTH crit, WHILE doing AoE damage from the ability itself, with NO additional penalty?

So basically what you are saying is that already OP DK's need a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

Um, no.

christopher.wieser.cwb16_ESO

[Remove]

You are partially right, just removing the drain and leaving the skill as it is wouldn't be the best solution.

But in the current state, this skill is absolutely useless.

This skill needs a slight revamp, remove the drain, decrease the crittbuff to 4-6% and increase the magicka ticks per second about 100%.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

[Remove]

I think you would mean remove the magicka regeneration = 0 out of the skill, which is what they need to do. They drain alone is fine for stunting magicka regen, both together makes the skill useless.

Armitas

[Remove]

The cost is also irreducible by magicka cost reduction. The dot is quite measly for having to shut down all magicka recovery.

Also it should be noted that only 1 morph gives the crit buff not both. 10% crit is 0% crit with a single piece of armor.

ThyIronFist

[Remove]

They need to find a sweet spot with this skill, it's not useless, but it's not really great either because it stops your magicka regen. The AoE damage it does is a joke.The only thing I'd say it's good for is the Ultimate you gain, but if you're not keeping an eye out on your magicka, you will be OOM before you know it.

10% weapon crit is meh. People are running with Impen gear so... meh.

Also after 6 months into the game some people still think DKs are OP. Hilarious. Get real, seriously. Or learn to counter perhaps?

Phinix1

[Keep]

Can someone voting to remove the penalties for this ability please explain how you feel this is fair or justified?

Giving DK's a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

You compare it to the Templar shield which only absorbs damage and does damage when it breaks. You are talking about giving DK's a permanent DoT and half of Mage Light crit bonus.

I don't see the connection.

It would be like saying "they removed the magicka penalty from Templar shield so it is only fair they make Nightblade cloak last 15 seconds per cast."

I mean it's only fair.

Crit applies to both weapon AND spells BTW, and it is NOT meaningless in PVP. Most people are running with an average of 45% crit resist or less. It is simple to stack 60% or more crit just using gear and abilities.

Give DK's another 10% for free and they will be able to stack 70% or more crit, giving them a 1 in 3 chance to crit THROUGH impenetrable.

Not to mention the ultimate gain you mentioned yourself. Yeah, lets give ultimate spamming AOE zergs even MORE OP abilities.

Balance: Please explain it. Or you could just click LOL again. That's the lazy man's substitute for an intelligent debate.

Armitas

[Remove]

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Can someone voting to remove the penalties for this ability please explain how you feel this is fair or justified?

Giving DK's a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

It's not free. It costs magicka every second. Why a should a minor dot and actually 0% crit bonus, by morph or 1 piece of impenetrable gear, also shut down all of your magikca regen? That makes a huge impact on any other cast while this thing is on.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

[Remove]

fully stopping magica regen makes it quite useless, I would say make it like "-30% mag regen" or let it keep magica regen but let it cost a bit of magica per second, so you dont have an infinete dot for free

MorHawk

[Keep]

I think people are getting confused here. I know I was at first, it's poorly worded. He's not asking to remove the cost of the spell (I think), but to remove the magicka regen throttle that currently accompanies it. Combined, he posits that the cost is excessive relative to the damage done.

With that in mind, please ignore my vote, as I have no experience of the skill to make that assessment.

christopher.wieser.cwb16_ESO

[Remove]

MorHawk wrote: »

I think people are getting confused here. I know I was at first, it's poorly worded. He's not asking to remove the cost of the spell (I think), but to remove the magicka regen throttle that currently accompanies it. Combined, he posits that the cost is excessive relative to the damage done.

With that in mind, please ignore my vote, as I have no experience of the skill to make that assessment.

Actually i don't think it's poorly worded.

In the titel and in the text, i mentioned the "magicka regeneration drain". And that is what this ability does. It sets your magicka reg to 0.

I think most of the people do not really know how this skill exactly works:

Unmorphed:
Deals amount [x] dmg per second.
Costs amount [x] magicka per second.
Drains your magicka regeneration to 0. (I am asking for removing this)

Flames of Oblivion:
Adds 10-13% spell and weapon crit for targets in range.

Sea of Flames:
Gain ~115 Magicka for every Enemy that dies in the flames.

Cheers.

Izzban

[Remove]

While I am not sure simply removing the magicka regen inhibitor is a viable solution, I do believe this skill needs tweaking.

My solution is to continue to shut down magicka regen as is currently the case, but to scale the damage done according to how much magicka regen the character has. Thus, the higher your regen is, the higher the damage scales to, but your regen is still shut off as it is now.

My thought process here is, since obviously scaling damage off something like magicka regen is odd, that since regen is shut off, the regen is used to fuel the spell with more regen causing a more powerful effect.

It might be possible for a high regen character to find a niche application for this spell with such a change.

I feel a change is needed as I was excited to use this spell, popped it off a few times and shelved it as too expensive and weak to use. Hopefully, the devs can come up with something that makes this spell more attractive.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

[Remove]

Izzban wrote: »

While I am not sure simply removing the magicka regen inhibitor is a viable solution, I do believe this skill needs tweaking.

My solution is to continue to shut down magicka regen as is currently the case, but to scale the damage done according to how much magicka regen the character has. Thus, the higher your regen is, the higher the damage scales to, but your regen is still shut off as it is now.

My thought process here is, since obviously scaling damage off something like magicka regen is odd, that since regen is shut off, the regen is used to fuel the spell with more regen causing a more powerful effect.

It might be possible for a high regen character to find a niche application for this spell with such a change.

I feel a change is needed as I was excited to use this spell, popped it off a few times and shelved it as too expensive and weak to use. Hopefully, the devs can come up with something that makes this spell more attractive.

Thats just another way to put even more spotlight on magicka builds. Just removing the magicka regen stoppage is enough to make the skill balanced. 28 magicka drained every second will serve to slow down magicka regen while its active, and is good enough for the damage and range of the skill which is melee range.

MorHawk

[Keep]

christopher.wieser.cwb16_ESO wrote: »

Actually i don't think it's poorly worded.

Of course you wouldn't. It would be prudent to recognize your bias in this case, given that you were the one who wrote the post. You did indeed put "Remove Magicka regeneration drain" in the title, but then you said this:

christopher.wieser.cwb16_ESO wrote: »

Currently this skill cuts your magicka regeneration off and drains a certain amount of magicka per second.
Negating your magicka reg, makes this skill utterly useless, so the simple suggestion is to remove this drain, to make this skill usefull.

Hence why people thought you were asking to remove the cost, as evidenced by the responses you got. For example:

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

So basically what you are saying is that already OP DK's need a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

Regardless, the meaning has now been established. Carry on!

badmojo0777b14_ESO

[Remove]

keep the ticking magicka cost but allow for normal regen

Cody

[Keep]

DKs do not need any kind of improvments right now. The imbalance it would cause would provoke huge outrage from the community.

xMovingTarget

[Keep]

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Giving DK's a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

13% on level 4

I am a DK and i even use sea of flames. But i think its fine. This ability is a strong DPS support. Thats why you have a penalty on it. I like it the way it is.

Guys seriously, stahp necroing old and dead threads :P

demonlkojipub19_ESO

[Remove]

Hasnt been necrod enough. I still support removal of the magica regen cut, even if it means raising the magicka cost per sec a bit to stunt magica regen more.

xMovingTarget

[Keep]

Are you a Necromancer? Thought that isnt in the game

PBpsy

[Keep]

For pve this skill is just fine and quite awesome..
With good gear and FoO you can get your spell crit at around 75% for targets around you. You activate FoO , run in a pack of mobs ,drop Standard, Inhale(Draw Essence), Elemental ring a couple of times then you can just drop drop another Standard and get back to full magicka due to battle roar. The amount of ulti you get from the dots/crits is insane with FoO on and you can sometimes have 3 standards down in large pulls.If you time your Draw Essence, Standards, Impulse kills and pots the fact that you do not have any magicka regen is a non issue.When It comes to AOE in dungeons I almost always come out with 50% of my magicka at the end.

edit.
Damn YOU MANNIMARCO.

david.haypreub18_ESO

[Keep]

See, the problem for me is that the OP justified the change by invoking what is 'fair'. So long as Talons does not grant an immunity timer and Scales reflects all projectiles, then it would not in any way be 'fair' to help DKs any more.

GreyBrow

[Remove]

The skill is currently broken, or the dev's are too blind to adjust the tooltip accordingly.

Say your regeneration is 100.

Say Flames of oblivion drains 23 mana per second.

What this means is that in combat, you regenerate 100 mana every two seconds, or 50 mana per second.

50 mana per second regen - 25 mana per second drain = 27 mana per second regen.

according to the tooltip, flames of oblivion should reduce your magicka regeneration while in combat by 63

Currently, it reduces your magicka regeneration to zero and then gives you negative 63 magicka regeneration

I'll say this again: The skill is broken. It should only cost 23 mana per second and not affect your regen. Currently, it gives you negative regen

Any chance of a fix, or at least a tooltip adjustment @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌?

GreyBrow

[Remove]

Another fix would be to remove the cost of 23 magicka per second and change the tooltip to state that while active, FoO reduces your magicka regeneration to zero.

TehMagnus

[Remove]

Yes, it's def impossible to use at present state, please, remove the magicka regen to 0

Ramasee

Another way to address this ability would be to increase the cost to something above 70 magicka per second while removing the magicka regen stunting. This way the ability is not free to have active, but doesn't make having magicka regen on your gear useless.

Armitas

[Remove]

@ 2500 magicka it would take 50 seconds to run dry using only inferno. That would be fine in a pure stamina build however a pure stamina build would not have 2500 magicka. If you cast a damager like flame whip at a cost of 200 every 2 seconds that would be 300 magicka every 2 seconds. You would be done in 16 seconds.

I just cannot understand why ~50 damage and maybe 13% crit is worth 50 magicka a second and 0 recovery. It might make sense in a stamina build but for the fact that Inferno scales of magicka and weapons scale of stamina. So there is neither the pool nor the power there for a stamina build and it is a detriment in a magicka build with the exception of trash. Trash is trash, it doesn't need a level 42 skill to handle.

Pyatra

Armitas wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Can someone voting to remove the penalties for this ability please explain how you feel this is fair or justified?

Giving DK's a free permanent AoE and 10% crit bonus?

It's not free. It costs magicka every second. Why a should a minor dot and actually 0% crit bonus, by morph or 1 piece of impenetrable gear, also shut down all of your magikca regen? That makes a huge impact on any other cast while this thing is on.

Bolt Escape, never forget.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

[Keep]

Simply removing it would make the move much to powerful. Also I play three different characters and would like to see other classes bad moves addressed first seeing that dk is already hands down the best all around class for pve and PvP. That being said the move should be revamped because the cost of all regain is to high for the benefit.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

[Remove]

Bolt escape even after its nerf is a commonly used skill. It didnt become useless. Inferno is a very rarely used skill. Rare as in someone trying it out for the first time then never again after finding it a complete waste of magicka, rare. Its very useless for its range and damage.

EnOeZ

[Keep]

As a DK, Stamina, Melee, Heavy armour, I am in favor of keeping it...

Why ?

Because it is the ONLY (and I really mean only) class spell we have that is better in my Heavy Armour set up than in the standard Light Armour DK set up, since with this "Flame of Oblivion" spell up (it is the only magicka spell I have on my 2Hander bar), I am still getting magicka "regen" (thanks to heavy armour "Constitution" passive).

I can even keep it up indefinitely with either 6K health (...) or using any low cost ultimate on CD (Battle Roar passive).

Any other class spell is better in another armour with magicka heavy character as all of us know. So if there is one class spell, kind of "designed for me", it is this one.

I only wish :

_ radius would go up from 5 to 6 or 7 as it was the original radius of the much more powerful and impactful "Talons".
_ scales somewhat on stamina (as we can see light armour, magicka-based DKs don't like it anyway)
_ does not fade away when I switch bar (would be consistent with other buffs like "GDB", "Spiked Armour"...)

GreyBrow

[Remove]

EnOeZ wrote: »

_ does not fade away when I switch bar (would be consistent with other buffs like "GDB", "Spiked Armour"...)

All toggled abilities (magelight, sorc pets, etc.,) go away if you swap bars and you dont have the same ability on the second bar.