PvP without vamps

Armitas

If you look at the vampire line it looks like an immediately successful line, and it is a successful line. If you look at Werewolf you immediately see an unsuccessful line. They have created a truly successful, exciting, satisfying build in the vampire. I think what would be required to make Vamp a non dominant line in PvP would result in the line no longer being a success. That would be a shame.

What I think needs to be done is to make a rival, non monster line. If Vamp is successful, and it seems to be, leave it alone* and make another successful line to rival it. (also fix werewolf, but that is being worked on in the developer discussions)

*excluding tweaks, like adding red aoe circles, mist form exploit etc

yelloweyedemon

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I don't have a problem with vamps and I don't personally run it anymore on my main (templar).
Invisible batswarm is a bit annoying but honestly not a big threat imo.

madangrypally wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves should not gain any Fighter Guild Passives.

Thus a player can only gain benefit from either:
Vampire or Werewolf or Fighter guild.

Never thought about that. That'd actually make sense :P

It would make better sense if the fighters guild wasn't focused on anti-abomination but rather, fighters.

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Dropped my sub about the vamp joke on this game. Sorry but this ain't an Elder Scrolls game.

BTW when they said that vamps won't have advantages over "living" characters, were they joking? Or did they believe that the 50% fire debuff makes it up for all the vampire passive AND active skills?

And 9% extra damage taken on top of that from every attack thanks to the slayer trait.

I'd trait that for all the vampire passives and actives anytime. It's like there no actual drawback, especially when I don't zerg so I could not care less for oil.

Also, what reason does my glass cannon <Insert_class_here> has to not be a vampire?

Dudis

Just change the invisibility morph to a strong damage reduction and add a low value (20% ish) snare to all versions.

I run vamp on my NB because of the passives alone, I don't even want any of the abilities it brings. What if they made some more interesting stuff to the day/night cycles?

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

It would make better sense if the fighters guild wasn't focused on anti-abomination but rather, fighters.

That's kind of their thing though...

Joy_Division

Problem with Vamps in PvP:

1) Bat swarm is too cheap. I don't mind them having such a powerful ultimate, but its cost should reflect that. No other ultimate offers the damage/invulnerability/healing that this one does and it's only 150. Meanwhile, meteor, which merely does damage and can be reflected back at you (!) costs 250.

2) The fighter guild abilities were supposed to be the game's built in mechanic to balance Vamps/WW. They are good vs PvE undead/daedra, but human players can simply block to avoid the devastating knock down or use damage shields to mitigate the damage.

3) The downside for being a vamp is easily countered. Health regen loss is irrelevant in Cyodiil because healing is so pervasive and fire weakness means vamps have only 1 less jewelry slot available to them.

In sum, Vamps get the best - and cheap - ultimate for Cyrodiil and can easily counter the built-in disadvantages.

Dudis

I'd hardly call the vamp ult the strongest in Cyrodiil tbh.

I don't even get why people think it's so strong, it's just kind of annoying and probably a bit on the cheap side for what it does...

celticstorm

I kind of enjoy being a non-vamp because everyone just unloads silver bolts or (insert fire skill) at me. They can't figure out why "it's not doing enough damage!!!1!" and then panic. Then I mace to the face and /idle5.

Pathfinder

Honestly I don't know why ZoS introduced Vamps and WW at the onset seeing as they weren't needed to sell the game anyway. It would have been a killer addition to a "Road Ahead" at this point had they not already existed.

Monsoon

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

people who complain about vamps are inexperienced pvpers, sad but true

I bet if they put a big@ss red circle on the ground whenever somebody pop'd Devouring Swarm or the other morph. People die less and whine less.

But because they get so hyperfocus on "RAAAAAAAAAAAMUSTMURDERFACENUBS??!?!?!!!123" they die to standing in the stupid. Then they rage, then they put on their internet tough-guy pants and come to the forums to "be heard".

Riiiight. The stupid that multi CC'ed them while 5 people running streak+firerings+batswarm killed them...yeah they are stupid for being unable to do [snip] and get CCed to death, its the victim's fault don t you know?

[edited for profanity bypass]

Monsoon

This is what happens when great PVE skills are mixed with PVP. Half the CCs should not exist in PVP and things like streak+firering+batswarm should be PVE only.

WOW had the same issue. Most skills were great for solo and PVE/Dungeons but once in the PVP battlefield became a nightmare of imbalance...same thing is happening here

Joy_Division

Monsoon wrote: »

This is what happens when great PVE skills are mixed with PVP. Half the CCs should not exist in PVP and things like streak+firering+batswarm should be PVE only.

WOW had the same issue. Most skills were great for solo and PVE/Dungeons but once in the PVP battlefield became a nightmare of imbalance...same thing is happening here

Are you joking? Skills only usable in PvE? As it is, good players are typically only killed if you can CC them with the amount of healing/damage mitigation in the game. And CCing them is hard enough since they can block or dodge/use skills to avoid it.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

If you look at the vampire build it looks like an immediately successful build, and it is a successful build. If you look at Werewolf you immediately see an unsuccessful build. They have created a truly successful, exciting, satisfying build in the vampire. I think what would be required to make Vamp a non dominant line in PvP would result in the line no longer being a success. That would be a shame.

What I think needs to be done is to make a rival, non monster line. If Vamp is successful, and it seems to be, leave it alone* and make another successful line to rival it. (also fix werewolf, but that is being worked on in the developer discussions)

*excluding tweaks, like adding red aoe circles, mist form exploit etc

What is "the vampire build"

demonlkojipub19_ESO

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I don't have a problem with vamps and I don't personally run it anymore on my main (templar).
Invisible batswarm is a bit annoying but honestly not a big threat imo.

madangrypally wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves should not gain any Fighter Guild Passives.

Thus a player can only gain benefit from either:
Vampire or Werewolf or Fighter guild.

Never thought about that. That'd actually make sense :P

It would make better sense if the fighters guild wasn't focused on anti-abomination but rather, fighters.

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Dropped my sub about the vamp joke on this game. Sorry but this ain't an Elder Scrolls game.

BTW when they said that vamps won't have advantages over "living" characters, were they joking? Or did they believe that the 50% fire debuff makes it up for all the vampire passive AND active skills?

And 9% extra damage taken on top of that from every attack thanks to the slayer trait.

I'd trait that for all the vampire passives and actives anytime. It's like there no actual drawback, especially when I don't zerg so I could not care less for oil.

Also, what reason does my glass cannon <Insert_class_here> has to not be a vampire?

Then trade everything for vamp. Go out and just solo the world with batswarm since its that easy. Undeath does nothing for you in pvp, all thanks to the slayer trait. Vampire only has 2 worthwhile traits.

In reality its the builds minus vampirism that kill you. Streaks+Elemental Ring+talon spam+anything else is enough to do you in. They can do all that to you without being a vampire. And you will care a lot about oil without a purge ready as a vampire.

There are videos of people that would ruin you in a 1v1 or if you bring a friend or two, and they aren't vampires. I'm sure you've seen them. Its the build that will ruin you, mortal or not. Adding vampire into said build just creates a new way to ruin you should they use them, one you just cant help but attack vampire for.

But carry on and act like its all vampire.

Ending: A lone vampire has as much power as its build including gear and skills allows it to be.

yelloweyedemon

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I don't have a problem with vamps and I don't personally run it anymore on my main (templar).
Invisible batswarm is a bit annoying but honestly not a big threat imo.

madangrypally wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves should not gain any Fighter Guild Passives.

Thus a player can only gain benefit from either:
Vampire or Werewolf or Fighter guild.

Never thought about that. That'd actually make sense :P

It would make better sense if the fighters guild wasn't focused on anti-abomination but rather, fighters.

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Dropped my sub about the vamp joke on this game. Sorry but this ain't an Elder Scrolls game.

BTW when they said that vamps won't have advantages over "living" characters, were they joking? Or did they believe that the 50% fire debuff makes it up for all the vampire passive AND active skills?

And 9% extra damage taken on top of that from every attack thanks to the slayer trait.

I'd trait that for all the vampire passives and actives anytime. It's like there no actual drawback, especially when I don't zerg so I could not care less for oil.

Also, what reason does my glass cannon <Insert_class_here> has to not be a vampire?

Then trade everything for vamp. Go out and just solo the world with batswarm since its that easy. Undeath does nothing for you in pvp, all thanks to the slayer trait. Vampire only has 2 worthwhile traits.

In reality its the builds minus vampirism that kill you. Streaks+Elemental Ring+talon spam+anything else is enough to do you in. They can do all that to you without being a vampire. And you will care a lot about oil without a purge ready as a vampire.

There are videos of people that would ruin you in a 1v1 or if you bring a friend or two, and they aren't vampires. I'm sure you've seen them. Its the build that will ruin you, mortal or not. Adding vampire into said build just creates a new way to ruin you should they use them, one you just cant help but attack vampire for.

But carry on and act like its all vampire.

Ending: A lone vampire has as much power as its build including gear and skills allows it to be.

Being killed or get a kill in 1v1 is based on player skill and class built. Being vampire or not does not matter much.

The problem has nothing to do with vampires being OP or UP in 1v1. The problem is that much more than half the pvp population are vampires. It is simple not fun and does not fit to an ES game (where vampires are meant to be rare and not care about politics. (Don't throw few exceptions at me now..)

What we have for lore is: In the second age there was a 3 alliance war where the troops of each alliance were mostly vampires... lol

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I don't have a problem with vamps and I don't personally run it anymore on my main (templar).
Invisible batswarm is a bit annoying but honestly not a big threat imo.

madangrypally wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves should not gain any Fighter Guild Passives.

Thus a player can only gain benefit from either:
Vampire or Werewolf or Fighter guild.

Never thought about that. That'd actually make sense :P

It would make better sense if the fighters guild wasn't focused on anti-abomination but rather, fighters.

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Dropped my sub about the vamp joke on this game. Sorry but this ain't an Elder Scrolls game.

BTW when they said that vamps won't have advantages over "living" characters, were they joking? Or did they believe that the 50% fire debuff makes it up for all the vampire passive AND active skills?

And 9% extra damage taken on top of that from every attack thanks to the slayer trait.

I'd trait that for all the vampire passives and actives anytime. It's like there no actual drawback, especially when I don't zerg so I could not care less for oil.

Also, what reason does my glass cannon <Insert_class_here> has to not be a vampire?

Vampire only has 2 worthwhile traits.

Oh you mean that one *passive* skill that allows everyone to sneak with no movement penalty? Something so powerfull that not even the only class that benefits from stealth attacks through trait synergies (NB) gets access to?

And now thanks to sets, we have people sneaking faster than horses.

This equals to something more than "worthwile trait" in my book...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Bramir

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game. I see some seriously self-deceived posters in this thread, saying bizarre things like 'its the classes that are the problem', when the common denominator for most serious pvp exploits in this game is the vampire skill line. There is just no getting past that...

In order to make vampires match their lore at all, they had to be made more powerful than mortals. So, until the 'mortals' are given some way to make up the difference, vampires are overpowered. It is really very simple, and probably the worst opening move I've ever seen from an MMO was releasing vampires with launch when the rest of the game's balance hadn't been worked out yet. Now we are stuck with players expecting their vamps to be powerful, and the rest of us wondering why we are even playing as anything but a vampire.

Aoe_Barbecue

Mfw Fiery Ring procs 5 Evil Hunter's:



Mfw I get Camouflaged Hunter'd/Lethal Arrow'd:

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game.

Please elaborate on said "exploitation of the vampire skill line".

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game. I see some seriously self-deceived posters in this thread, saying bizarre things like 'its the classes that are the problem', when the common denominator for most serious pvp exploits in this game is the vampire skill line. There is just no getting past that...

In order to make vampires match their lore at all, they had to be made more powerful than mortals. So, until the 'mortals' are given some way to make up the difference, vampires are overpowered. It is really very simple, and probably the worst opening move I've ever seen from an MMO was releasing vampires with launch when the rest of the game's balance hadn't been worked out yet. Now we are stuck with players expecting their vamps to be powerful, and the rest of us wondering why we are even playing as anything but a vampire.

You have plenty of ways to combat vampires, you just feel they are insufficient. AOE Barbeque for example has no problem combatting vampires. Only way you'll be satisfied with is a trait that makes you insta-kill any vampire or werewolf with a light attack.

I also don't know of any exploit other than the one reported about being able to retain 75% damage reduction in mist form. Not every vampire is exploiting this. Not nearly as many of you "good guys" who exploited silver bolts when it was bugged.

Tripwyr

These threads are cute. My Fire Ring deals 500 damage non-crit to Vampires, and my Evil Hunter procs deal another 350 on top. My Light Attack deals ~450 non-crit. Not to mention all the 2 shots I get from a 450 Light Attack, 200-300-200 Crushing Shock, 2x Evil Hunter combo.

Please, more people go Vamp so I can improve my Stamina sustain.

Let me break down Alacrity's line up:

DK - Vamp
DK - Vamp
Temp DPS - Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
NB DPS - Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
NB DPS - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
NB DPS - Not Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
DK - Not Vamp
NB DPS - Vamp
DK - Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
DK - Vamp
DK Support - Not Vamp
Temp Healer - Not Vamp
Sorc Healer - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
Sorc DPS - Not Vamp
Oh and me, Sorc DPS - Werewolf

That covers everyone who has been online in the last 5 days.
Class breakdown:
DK - 4 Vamp, 2 Not Vamp (1 support)
Temp - 1 Vamp (DPS), 7 Not Vamp
Sorc - 1 Vamp, 7 Not Vamp (1 Healer), 1 Werewolf
NB - 2 Vamp, 2 Not Vamp

Totals: 8 Vamp, 18 Not Vamp, 1 Werewolf.

Bramir

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game. I see some seriously self-deceived posters in this thread, saying bizarre things like 'its the classes that are the problem', when the common denominator for most serious pvp exploits in this game is the vampire skill line. There is just no getting past that...

In order to make vampires match their lore at all, they had to be made more powerful than mortals. So, until the 'mortals' are given some way to make up the difference, vampires are overpowered. It is really very simple, and probably the worst opening move I've ever seen from an MMO was releasing vampires with launch when the rest of the game's balance hadn't been worked out yet. Now we are stuck with players expecting their vamps to be powerful, and the rest of us wondering why we are even playing as anything but a vampire.

You have plenty of ways to combat vampires, you just feel they are insufficient. AOE Barbeque for example has no problem combatting vampires. Only way you'll be satisfied with is a trait that makes you insta-kill any vampire or werewolf with a light attack.

I also don't know of any exploit other than the one reported about being able to retain 75% damage reduction in mist form. Not every vampire is exploiting this. Not nearly as many of you "good guys" who exploited silver bolts when it was bugged.

No, I will be satisfied when vampires do not feel safe jumping into a 20+ group of players by themselves. No player should be able to function like a raid boss except maybe an emperor, and even that is debatable.

As for exploits, there are two current ones...the night's silence set requires the vampire skill line to exploit, and the invulnerability exploit making the rounds in Cyrodil does as well. Additionally, for awhile vampires were able to pretty much spam their ultimates, which are a bit over the top to begin with.

The funniest thing about the invulnerability exploit, is the good ones don't even need it to be invulnerable. Being invisible while spamming aoes is really all you need...why would anyone bother with silver bolts when the problematic vamps can't even be targetted?

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game. I see some seriously self-deceived posters in this thread, saying bizarre things like 'its the classes that are the problem', when the common denominator for most serious pvp exploits in this game is the vampire skill line. There is just no getting past that...

In order to make vampires match their lore at all, they had to be made more powerful than mortals. So, until the 'mortals' are given some way to make up the difference, vampires are overpowered. It is really very simple, and probably the worst opening move I've ever seen from an MMO was releasing vampires with launch when the rest of the game's balance hadn't been worked out yet. Now we are stuck with players expecting their vamps to be powerful, and the rest of us wondering why we are even playing as anything but a vampire.

You have plenty of ways to combat vampires, you just feel they are insufficient. AOE Barbeque for example has no problem combatting vampires. Only way you'll be satisfied with is a trait that makes you insta-kill any vampire or werewolf with a light attack.

I also don't know of any exploit other than the one reported about being able to retain 75% damage reduction in mist form. Not every vampire is exploiting this. Not nearly as many of you "good guys" who exploited silver bolts when it was bugged.

No, I will be satisfied when vampires do not feel safe jumping into a 20+ group of players by themselves. No player should be able to function like a raid boss except maybe an emperor, and even that is debatable.

As for exploits, there are two current ones...the night's silence set requires the vampire skill line to exploit, and the invulnerability exploit making the rounds in Cyrodil does as well. Additionally, for awhile vampires were able to pretty much spam their ultimates, which are a bit over the top to begin with.

The funniest thing about the invulnerability exploit, is the good ones don't even need it to be invulnerable. Being invisible while spamming aoes is really all you need...why would anyone bother with silver bolts when the problematic vamps can't even be targetted?

So you are complaining about player speed and some "exploit" that like 4 ppl are doing at the moment. You do realize when you get assault rank 10 you get 25 ult for a killing blow and an additional 9 if they are a vampire right? It's not just vamps that "spam ultimates" but players who have been in pvp longer then you have, think of it as a reward for having to put up with all the garbage pugs hitting walls with ice trebs and meat bags.

Kypho

[snip] 90% ppl in cyrodiil are lolvamps because its easymode ***, and rest 10% are refusing to use [snip], or just got bored of that crap and want to play fair (no BS cheese craps.), like everyone should.
All cheese build have nubvampirism... ofc its not the fault of the players, its the ... zos...
FG skills are a joke. Lethal arrow+camou? the only thing that is good and its not 100%. Silver is a big *** joke with its 5% chance to do some dmg. Fear? wth it doesnt means much. Utlimate? it sometimes just missfiring.... maybe its intended that ...Zos made vampirism an OP BS

Vampirism and Werewolf are made so, they wont give advantage over other players right zos? ... Fail...

They should mention in the FAQ something like: "If player choose Vampirism, it will give you advantage in pvp. If you choose werewolf, you can do 30 sec RP if you manage to get a [snip] ultimate, but you get just disadvantage in PvP."
That would clear up things, and stop threads about noobvampirism. It would be completly normal, that ppl whould get that BS.

Speed in stealth/can hide faster (not only night as many times happening in day too lol), recovery bonus, dmg resistance bonus, ulti where you can follow ppl and spam aoe and get lot heals, or be invisible, dmg reduction skill where you are untargetabe, cant be cc-ed, unbreakable feed, great heal what gives you stamina too.
Disadvantage is that you need 1! fire resist jewelery. but you get 33% dmg reduction, if you are lower than 50% health...so not that big disadvantage. Healthrecovery penalty????lol!!!!!!!!!

Im guilty too, i have a nubvamp templar, so i know how it is...

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

Dudis

Literally, the only worthwhile benefit I got from being a vamp was the sneak speed (templar, solo/duo).

I dropped it and don't miss it at all.

dcincali

Kypho wrote: »

[snip] 90% ppl in cyrodiil are lolvamps because its easymode ***, and rest 10% are refusing to use [snip], or just got bored of that crap and want to play fair (no BS cheese craps.), like everyone should.
All cheese build have nubvampirism... ofc its not the fault of the players, its the ... zos...
FG skills are a joke. Lethal arrow+camou? the only thing that is good and its not 100%. Silver is a big *** joke with its 5% chance to do some dmg. Fear? wth it doesnt means much. Utlimate? it sometimes just missfiring.... maybe its intended that ...Zos made vampirism an OP BS

Vampirism and Werewolf are made so, they wont give advantage over other players right zos? ... Fail...

They should mention in the FAQ something like: "If player choose Vampirism, it will give you advantage in pvp. If you choose werewolf, you can do 30 sec RP if you manage to get a [snip] ultimate, but you get just disadvantage in PvP."
That would clear up things, and stop threads about noobvampirism. It would be completly normal, that ppl whould get that BS.

Speed in stealth/can hide faster (not only night as many times happening in day too lol), recovery bonus, dmg resistance bonus, ulti where you can follow ppl and spam aoe and get lot heals, or be invisible, dmg reduction skill where you are untargetabe, cant be cc-ed, unbreakable feed, great heal what gives you stamina too.
Disadvantage is that you need 1! fire resist jewelery. but you get 33% dmg reduction, if you are lower than 50% health...so not that big disadvantage. Healthrecovery penalty????lol!!!!!!!!!

My group of vamps are so l33t we dont even use fire resist, we just lolinvisbatswarmimpulseeveryone. /facepalm

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

PlagueMonk

Some of you Vamps must be blood drunk because you get 3 passives that I, as a non-vampire do not get:

- +10% magicka AND stamina rec. This alone is a huge bonus. you are basically getting the bonus of 1.5 glyphs right there so you are already .5 ahead of the game after you account for the fire resist ring.
- Mitigating up to 33% damage under 30% health. being able to just lop off 25%+ of any incoming damage when you are hurting is again a huge bonus that I wish I had.
- And of course there is the move speed while sneaking.

(we wont talk about the passive that mitigates your decreased health regen. further marginalizing your "penalties")

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

Tell you what....how about we just remove those passives and see how much the OPed Vamps scream.


THIS is what I would do:
- Give the Fighters guild an across the board +8% to health, stamina and magicka regen passive.
- +10% damage mitigation vs the undead.
- Remove Vampire passive bonuses during the day.
- Vampires should then only get a +20% move penalty offset for sneaking instead of the current bonus (you can sneak a little faster, not obscenely fast)
- Give NB's a passive that increases their sneak speed +50% at rank 2 (if any class deserves free sneak it is that class). But once you have reached +100% you cannot get any faster.

Kypho

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Some of you Vamps must be blood drunk because you get 3 passives that I, as a non-vampire do not get:

- +10% magicka AND stamina rec. This alone is a huge bonus. you are basically getting the bonus of 1.5 glyphs right there so you are already .5 ahead of the game after you account for the fire resist ring.
- Mitigating up to 33% damage under 30% health. being able to just lop off 25%+ of any incoming damage when you are hurting is again a huge bonus that I wish I had.
- And of course there is the move speed while sneaking.

(we wont talk about the passive that mitigates your decreased health regen. further marginalizing your "penalties")

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

Tell you what....how about we just remove those passives and see how much the OPed Vamps scream.


THIS is what I would do:
- Give the Fighters guild an across the board +8% to health, stamina and magicka regen passive.
- +10% damage mitigation vs the undead.
- Remove Vampire passive bonuses during the day.
- Vampires should then only get a +20% move penalty offset for sneaking instead of the current bonus (you can sneak a little faster, not obscenely fast)
- Give NB's a passive that increases their sneak speed +50% at rank 2 (if any class deserves free sneak it is that class). But once you have reached +100% you cannot get any faster.

Just a fix, you get 33% at 50% health with the 2 pts in passive, if my templar's tooltip doesnt lie. so more lol.

Kypho

DP...

dcincali

PlagueMonk wrote: »

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

You can't completely negate the full 50% fire damage from vamp. The resist helps some but you will still be hit with the extra % of the base fire damage that gets thru.

Bramir

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So what that there are so many vampires. That many people wanted to be a vampire. Vampire has been in every ESO game in different forms. This is probably the one MMO that would even allow the optional route. It would be more of a sad sight if ESO didn't continue to have the vampire and werewolf as it did with its previous titles. Just as many people can be vampire or werewolf as they could in single player game, and it doesn't even come as fast or as easily. Only, you get to see them all.

What would have made things really fun to be a vampire if we had any actual "anti-mortal" skills. Then you would have reason to complain so.

Unfortunately, many of the people playing vampires in Cyrodil are doing so because the vampire skill line can (and will) be exploited like nothing else in this game. I see some seriously self-deceived posters in this thread, saying bizarre things like 'its the classes that are the problem', when the common denominator for most serious pvp exploits in this game is the vampire skill line. There is just no getting past that...

In order to make vampires match their lore at all, they had to be made more powerful than mortals. So, until the 'mortals' are given some way to make up the difference, vampires are overpowered. It is really very simple, and probably the worst opening move I've ever seen from an MMO was releasing vampires with launch when the rest of the game's balance hadn't been worked out yet. Now we are stuck with players expecting their vamps to be powerful, and the rest of us wondering why we are even playing as anything but a vampire.

You have plenty of ways to combat vampires, you just feel they are insufficient. AOE Barbeque for example has no problem combatting vampires. Only way you'll be satisfied with is a trait that makes you insta-kill any vampire or werewolf with a light attack.

I also don't know of any exploit other than the one reported about being able to retain 75% damage reduction in mist form. Not every vampire is exploiting this. Not nearly as many of you "good guys" who exploited silver bolts when it was bugged.

No, I will be satisfied when vampires do not feel safe jumping into a 20+ group of players by themselves. No player should be able to function like a raid boss except maybe an emperor, and even that is debatable.

As for exploits, there are two current ones...the night's silence set requires the vampire skill line to exploit, and the invulnerability exploit making the rounds in Cyrodil does as well. Additionally, for awhile vampires were able to pretty much spam their ultimates, which are a bit over the top to begin with.

The funniest thing about the invulnerability exploit, is the good ones don't even need it to be invulnerable. Being invisible while spamming aoes is really all you need...why would anyone bother with silver bolts when the problematic vamps can't even be targetted?

So you are complaining about player speed and some "exploit" that like 4 ppl are doing at the moment. You do realize when you get assault rank 10 you get 25 ult for a killing blow and an additional 9 if they are a vampire right? It's not just vamps that "spam ultimates" but players who have been in pvp longer then you have, think of it as a reward for having to put up with all the garbage pugs hitting walls with ice trebs and meat bags.

Four people my ass...and like I said above, they don't even need this exploit to be way stronger than non-vamps.

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

How do you know how much time I have spent in Cyrodil? I'm seriously wondering how much time you have spent doing pvp in any game if you think that moving in stealth as fast as a horse isn't a major problem. ZOS saw the problem already and is fixing it...and if you are blinder to exploits than ZOS, I don't even know where to start...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Some of you Vamps must be blood drunk because you get 3 passives that I, as a non-vampire do not get:

- +10% magicka AND stamina rec. This alone is a huge bonus. you are basically getting the bonus of 1.5 glyphs right there so you are already .5 ahead of the game after you account for the fire resist ring.
- Mitigating up to 33% damage under 30% health. being able to just lop off 25%+ of any incoming damage when you are hurting is again a huge bonus that I wish I had.
- And of course there is the move speed while sneaking.

(we wont talk about the passive that mitigates your decreased health regen. further marginalizing your "penalties")

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

Tell you what....how about we just remove those passives and see how much the OPed Vamps scream.


THIS is what I would do:
- Give the Fighters guild an across the board +8% to health, stamina and magicka regen passive.
- +10% damage mitigation vs the undead.
- Remove Vampire passive bonuses during the day.
- Vampires should then only get a +20% move penalty offset for sneaking instead of the current bonus (you can sneak a little faster, not obscenely fast)
- Give NB's a passive that increases their sneak speed +50% at rank 2 (if any class deserves free sneak it is that class). But once you have reached +100% you cannot get any faster.

Just a fix, you get 33% at 50% health with the 2 pts in passive, if my templar's tooltip doesnt lie. so more lol.

Just another fix, Undeath does jack against players. The slayer trait negates and overpowers what undeath can do for you. over 50% health is 9% more damage taken from every hit, when you get under, it doesnt instantly become 33% mitigation, it increases from 1% until you're near death then its 33% (still not proven to be 33%) when it doesn't even matter. It's only relevant in pve.

This is why I said there are 2 traits that are worthwhile. Undeath is irrelevant in cyrodil.