Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out?

Mendoze · September 2014

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

It's because of how BE can stun others. But yes it can teleport you to the Sorc. And if they have enough Magicka Regen or magicka potions, they won't be out of the fight for long. They just need to stun you once.

esohead.com/skills/18342-teleport-strike Looks like Teleport Strike also stuns it's target....who would have known? After NightBlade goes invis they tend to come back too if they think they can still win the battle. And good burst damage NB only needs to stun you once, then you are dead or really low health.

Now that I think about it, pretty much every gap closer either stuns or roots opponent. Still Streak should not disorient you so you could spam Teleport Strike/Invasion/[place your gap closer here] immediately? In other words do you think game should be designed so, that there's a ranged class, but it can't stay ranged more than 1 second or how long would it take to press 1 button in your skill bar.

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

Now I was also saying that BE gets them out of the fight quickly, so of course they'd lose magicka, but then once they're out of magicka, they're already out of fighting range and can run.

Now Cloak also gets Nightblades out of the fight quickly ( immediately ), and when they are out of range they can run too. In advance before you even start, it's not sorcerers' fault that cloak is bugged after latest patch. Nerfing BE does not fix any cloak bugs even some NBs seem to think so.

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

BE could also be used offensively by a Sorc who uses melee weapons to stun their opponent, allowing them to get the upper hand in any situation unless the opponent is an archer, but even then they could still BE towards them.

I'm little lost what you are going after here, but any Sorc can use Streak offensively. No matter what weapons they are using. Also I'm perfectly aware that crowd controls usually give upper hand to the user, but thank you for the info anyway.

I do understand that it's frustrating when every class seem to be able to either kill you or get away. Templars and their Sun Shield will make your melee class totally useless and you just kill yourself by trying to kill them. DKs just laugh at your puny attempts to kill them from ranged, and in melee they totally destroy you. If by some miracle you somehow manage to wound either of those classes they just heal to full asap. And the only class you actually could kill has a mechanic to get away.....man that must be depressing. This just makes me wonder why Sorcerers are target of so much NB hatred? And yes, it's always NBs who fill up these nerf BE threads.

PS: I hope somebody has already told you that stuns can be blocked. Like my Crystal Fragment or Streak won't stun you if you just block. On the other hand your Invasion or Teleport Strike won't stun me as long as I block, and I see nothing wrong in any of those skills even all of them can stun their opponent. If you don't like to use block, there's also easy-mode called Immovable. If you still choose to get hit by every single CC flying around in PVP, that is your choice, but it's not a reason to nerf those skills.

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

I do understand that it's frustrating when every class seem to be able to either kill you or get away. Templars and their Sun Shield will make your melee class totally useless and you just kill yourself by trying to kill them. DKs just laugh at your puny attempts to kill them from ranged, and in melee they totally destroy you. If by some miracle you somehow manage to wound either of those classes they just heal to full asap. And the only class you actually could kill has a mechanic to get away.....man that must be depressing. This just makes me wonder why Sorcerers are target of so much NB hatred? And yes, it's always NBs who fill up these nerf BE threads.

Well from my point of view the NB is severely underpowered since all the NBs I see always seem to get mowed down. The only ones I ever see doing good are those doing 1v1 with another NB. Anything else and the NB is just a free kill.

Mendoze wrote: »

PS: I hope somebody has already told you that stuns can be blocked. Like my Crystal Fragment or Streak won't stun you if you just block. On the other hand your Invasion or Teleport Strike won't stun me as long as I block, and I see nothing wrong in any of those skills even all of them can stun their opponent. If you don't like to use block, there's also easy-mode called Immovable. If you still choose to get hit by every single CC flying around in PVP, that is your choice, but it's not a reason to nerf those skills.

I tend to not block and use dual weapons and medium armor to try to get enough attack speed to beat my opponent before they can stun me, but it seems to never happen.

I don't use heavy armor since I'm still in Skyrim mode and thinking it will slow you down, and I prefer to be quick on my feet.

Erock25 · September 2014

Apparently this is another case of Nightblades focusing on stamina and not accepting why they aren't as good as other classes. News Flash!!!! You do not have to spec your NB as stamina!

I was dreaming of a stamina focused Sorc utilizing Crit Surge and 2h/bow but that was thrown out the window with the initial Bolt Escape nerf. My desired playstyle was crushed because of people crying for nerfs, and now these same people are crying that their desired playstyle (which is inferior to alternatives) isn't strong enough so they must nerf other classes. Bunch of BS if you ask me.

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

Apparently this is another case of Nightblades focusing on stamina and not accepting why they aren't as good as other classes. News Flash!!!! You do not have to spec your NB as stamina!

I was dreaming of a stamina focused Sorc utilizing Crit Surge and 2h/bow but that was thrown out the window with the initial Bolt Escape nerf. My desired playstyle was crushed because of people crying for nerfs, and now these same people are crying that their desired playstyle (which is inferior to alternatives) isn't strong enough so they must nerf other classes. Bunch of BS if you ask me.

I don't have a single item or skill in my class that uses or boosts stamina.

Erock25 · September 2014

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Apparently this is another case of Nightblades focusing on stamina and not accepting why they aren't as good as other classes. News Flash!!!! You do not have to spec your NB as stamina!

I was dreaming of a stamina focused Sorc utilizing Crit Surge and 2h/bow but that was thrown out the window with the initial Bolt Escape nerf. My desired playstyle was crushed because of people crying for nerfs, and now these same people are crying that their desired playstyle (which is inferior to alternatives) isn't strong enough so they must nerf other classes. Bunch of BS if you ask me.

I don't have a single item or skill in my class that uses or boosts stamina.

I wasn't directing that completely at you but ....... you use medium armor and daggers but no stamina abilities?

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

I tend to not block and use dual weapons and medium armor to try to get enough attack speed to beat my opponent before they can stun me, but it seems to never happen.

If true, immediately your experience in this game should never be used as a means to balance classes, because well... your build sucks.

Artis · September 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

I'm starting lose my interest in replying to you, because you obviously have no idea about this game or how my or your own class works, but lets go one more time.

Are you a humanities major, because only they think that insulting someone is an appropriate thing to do while having a discussion?

Topic says "Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out". That in itself is already wrong. For examble Nightblades have Teleport Strike. That moves your from point A to point B, am I right or wrong? That is abusable and spammable, as I can't kite you and you can close the gap instantly. Of course that is not a problem from your perspective, but it is from mine.

From creators of " you obviously have no idea about this game or how my or your own class works".
Wrong. First of all, it's only abusable in magicka-builds. No NB-mage will want to fight in melee distance having no means to survive. Secondly, it is NOT spammable. It has a cast time.

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Nightblade_(Oblivion) "Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances. (in-game description)". Here's your classical nightblade description, your idea is WoW rogue clone, and now you are just ticked off cause you can't stunlock everybody to death, and then come vent your frustrations to the forums.

First of all, here it is pretty obvious, that he uses spells as help to "benefit his circumstances". Secondly, are we playing Oblivion? I play ESO so I read the in-game description in ESO! When I create a character in ESO, only a sorc is shown in light armor. And NB is shown in MEDIUM ARMOR.

You have gimped yourself if you choose not to use any of your class abilities, and then complain how you can't kill people who are using their class abilities. You build your entire build to burst damage (read ganking ) and then cry when it fails and you can't catch your prey. I can ease your pain, melee sorcerers can't spam streak so maybe one day even you manage to kill one sorcerer.

Lurk around. There was a video of a melee sorc, who could oneshot with uppercut AND spam bolt escape or we will better say use it to get out of battle.
I do not build my entire build for ganking. I want CC and sustained damage, but none of my CC let's me catch a sorc. I can't even catch a sorc on a horse. Is that a "balance"?

It's not my problem how much useless crap you have to put in your skill bars. I have to put 20% useless AoE to get you out of hiding. And yes, you should slot retreating maneuver and whatever you think is needed if you want to catch bolt escaping sorcerer. You have 2 skill bars and if it's important for you to catch that sorcerer you just failed to gank, then use them. Not my problem really, most of the times I encounter a NB they tend to be the ones who want to end the battle early.

It also should not be my problem, devs should think how to solve it. And you should stop lying, because that's what you are doing. TO get me out of hiding you only need to have ONE Magelight per your group. And people use it all the time, anyway. Not even for that purpose. Crit is too good not to have, especially when almost everyone has heals that can crit.

Your NB was never promised surge ( you already have leeching strikes ) or bolt escape ( you have cloak ), so stop whining and moaning about sorcerer abilities and start using your own. It really is not developer or sorcerer fault that you are just too thick-headed to use your own class skills.

Should I quote the in-game descriptions again? We were the ONLY class that was promised to rely on blades. We were also the only class who was promised to have "a gift of getting in and out of trouble"
And what do we see instead??? A sorcerer is so much better in both these things. A cloak doesn't work or if it would - less than 3 seconds of invisibility doesn't make much difference. Also, ANYONE can go invisible with the help of a pot. Weapon damage and "relying on blades"? Sorc can get it overcharged with one Surge. I have no way of doing this. With a bow and 3 wep enchants my wep damage was still too far from softcap. Now, after the last update, it got closer to softcap because of the new med. armor passive. But sorcs got even more overcharged then.

PS: I don't really know how to say this any clearer, but spell crit is useless in PVP because everybody has impenetrable sets. I already said that earlier, and you obviously had some problems understanding that, but mage light is totally useless skill for other than revealing Nightblades. So it's the same if I have AoE or magelight, those are both useless for single target sorcerer, meaning they take 20% of my skill slots for nothing but to get you out of hiding. Those running with AoE build, are probably running in a blob, so you can't gank them anyway.

Have you been to Cyro? Have you seen how much spell crit can be stacked? It is still good. Besides, haven't you seen that people self heal and heals can crit too.. In which universe is it useless? Weapon crit is useless, spell crit isn't.

Does Teleport Strike teleports you to sorcerer or not? If it does, then I'd say sorcerers are not only ones who can teleport. Am I right or wrong? Also Teleport Strike has longer range than BE or any of it's morphs. If sorcerer uses it more than once, he has to pay higher price, and then he is out of range to do anything to NB. You are free to chase or go invis, you have tools for both.

No, it doesn't. If a sorc doesn't want a NB to teleport to him - he won't. Teleport Strike has a cast time. A NB is NOT able to finish casting it before a sorc will hit another bolt escape. And after that, a NB will NEVER be in range to even try casting it. Of course, every NB tried it to chase sorcs. It's is useless in fights. Sometimes, you can't even gank with it - a target will be out of range before you finish the cast lol (usually, riders, of course).

Erock25 wrote: »

Apparently this is another case of Nightblades focusing on stamina and not accepting why they aren't as good as other classes. News Flash!!!! You do not have to spec your NB as stamina!

What if I want to? I was promised I can play the way I want. I was also promised my class will be relying on blades. Finally, my NB was the only class shown in medium armor. It is obvious, that I was misguided - it looked like this class was intended to be the best for physical damage. Now, I HAVE to keep playing him like that and whine, so that they change balancing or admit that I (and others) was misguided and let me reroll. Then, I wouldn't repeat my mistake, roll one of magic-based classes and would maybe have fun in this game, too.

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Artemis wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Wall of text

You explained it so flawlessly even I am stunned.
Edit: I just noticed that is kind of a pun with the topic.

Mendoze · September 2014

Artemis wrote: »

Are you a humanities major, because only they think that insulting someone is an appropriate thing to do while having a discussion?

No, I studied computer science. Even you have to admit, that you have gaps how sorcerer class is working and some problems of admitting how your own class or this game works. Most of the time you either contradict yourself or just don't have a clue what you are talking about, and when you realize the other party was right, you just make some wild theory and spin topic to other direction, so I hardly call that a discussion.

Artemis wrote: »

From creators of " you obviously have no idea about this game or how my or your own class works".
Wrong. First of all, it's only abusable in magicka-builds. No NB-mage will want to fight in melee distance having no means to survive. Secondly, it is NOT spammable. It has a cast time.

So this time you admit that your class has a Teleport skill, and it's abusable, but it's not a problem, because only magicka-build NBs can use it. And that's what, maybe about 50% of Nightblade population? Also no magicka based NB wants to be in melee range? Lets make a quick list here: Assassin's Blade, Veiled Strike, Teleport Strike and even Aspect of Terror CC are all melee range skills and their damage scales with magicka. Funnily enought, I see those skills in my death recap quite often, so do you still think that no magicka based NB wants to fight at melee range?

And we were discussing about spammable skills, not instant cast skills. Skill can be spammed even if it's not instant cast. For example Reflecting Scales spamming DKs, Blazing Shield spamming Templars, Impulse Spammers or Bolt Escape spamming sorcerer. See?

Artemis wrote: »

First of all, here it is pretty obvious, that he uses spells as help to "benefit his circumstances". Secondly, are we playing Oblivion? I play ESO so I read the in-game description in ESO! When I create a character in ESO, only a sorc is shown in light armor. And NB is shown in MEDIUM ARMOR.

Ok, I have to admit I was trolling here. I knew what you meant, but that really is description of classic Nightblade. But anyways, would it make you happy if light armor was Sorcerer only, and Templars and DKs could only use heavy armor, because they have those in character creator image? That famous "Play as you want" phrase you like so much of course should not apply here, because this time it's not working like YOU want.

Artemis wrote: »

Lurk around. There was a video of a melee sorc, who could oneshot with uppercut AND spam bolt escape or we will better say use it to get out of battle.
I do not build my entire build for ganking. I want CC and sustained damage, but none of my CC let's me catch a sorc. I can't even catch a sorc on a horse. Is that a "balance"?

Yes even stamina based sorcerers can use BE 2-3 times before they are OOM, just like stamina based Nightblades can use cloak couple of times, so what is the problem in that? If you fail to catch melee sorcerer when he is OOM, I really can't help you there. Your next statement makes even less sense. You want sustained DPS and CC, and then you go for bow stamina build?!? So you want 2k ranged opener, sustained DPS, and enough CC or something to catch the most mobile class in game. That sure sounds balanced, doesn't it?

Artemis wrote: »

It also should not be my problem, devs should think how to solve it. And you should stop lying, because that's what you are doing. TO get me out of hiding you only need to have ONE Magelight per your group. And people use it all the time, anyway. Not even for that purpose. Crit is too good not to have, especially when almost everyone has heals that can crit.

Here instead of admitting that it takes 1 of my active skill slots to take you out of hiding ( just like Path of Darkness takes from you ), you decided to spin this to a groups vs. solo nightblade discussion and accuse me of lying. Since I only said what it takes from my character I must have been lying, right? I'm so sorry, I try to remember to include NightBlade vs. Group comparisons in 1 vs.1 discussion from now on. Also you still keep on talking about spell crit....sheesh. How many times I have to explain that?

Artemis wrote: »

Should I quote the in-game descriptions again? We were the ONLY class that was promised to rely on blades. We were also the only class who was promised to have "a gift of getting in and out of trouble"
And what do we see instead??? A sorcerer is so much better in both these things. A cloak doesn't work or if it would - less than 3 seconds of invisibility doesn't make much difference. Also, ANYONE can go invisible with the help of a pot. Weapon damage and "relying on blades"? Sorc can get it overcharged with one Surge. I have no way of doing this. With a bow and 3 wep enchants my wep damage was still too far from softcap. Now, after the last update, it got closer to softcap because of the new med. armor passive. But sorcs got even more overcharged then.

So here we have another discussion of in-game descriptions. Lets see:

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed. Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."

- Why it says in your description that you trust for luck and cunning, while my class is the one who is luck based? All your class skill should be proc based like CF currently is. My skills should all work 100% of the time.
- Why Nightblades has Cloak skill? They should rely on their luck and cunning to survive!! Nerf Nightblades.
- Why Nightblades have siphoning Tree, it says nowhere that you should be able to leech health from others? Nerf!!!!!!!!
- Why you have mass hysteria when it's not about stealth, blades or speed? This skill should be deleted or given to everybody.
- Ranged Nightblade??? Blashemy, nerf them immediately. It´s not mentioned in their description!!! They rely on stealth, blades and speed. If you don'y believe me, ask from Artemis
- Why Nightblades can teleport straight at their victims, when they should be using stealth and cunning to attack them? That is just brute force attack so delete that skill.
- If you need more, I can try to figure them out.

"Sorcerers use conjuration and destruction spells, hurling lightning bolts and creating shock fields, wielding dark magic to snare and stun, and sumonning [sic] from Oblivion to conjure Daedric combat followers."

- Why my shock fields are so weak, that any class has better AoE from destruction staff skill line? We were promised we are the best AoE class out there, but look what we got. *Sniff* Nerf Nightblades, they can use destruction staves too!!!
- We were promised we are masters of snares and stuns, and still DKs talons are much better? Is that really fair, no it's not so nerf Nightblades.
- Why my pets are so weak that they can't be used in PVP? How I'm supposed to play now? Nerf Nightblades!!!!
- My class does not really support a melee build, so I think Nightblades should be nerfed because I can't play as I want.

Do I really need to continue? That class description is just a few lines of text and nothing else. And finally you keep on claiming that your class should rely on blades, but then complain how you can't softcap weapon power for....wait for it....bow. Make your mind before we continue this "conversation" please.

Artemis wrote: »

Have you been to Cyro? Have you seen how much spell crit can be stacked? It is still good. Besides, haven't you seen that people self heal and heals can crit too.. In which universe is it useless? Weapon crit is useless, spell crit isn't.

Yes I have, I soloed to Captain rank, so I have some vague idea how Cyrodiil works. And here we have spell critical again? You still live in some fantasy world that spell crit boost sorcerer damage somehow in PVP environment. Sorcerer's can't stack over 100% spell crit ( without potions ), so it is not useful against impenetrable trait. It helps healers sure, but for DPS casters spell crit works like weapon crit works for melee. Do I need to explain how impenetrable trait works, or what makes this so hard to understand?

Artemis wrote: »

No, it doesn't. If a sorc doesn't want a NB to teleport to him - he won't. Teleport Strike has a cast time. A NB is NOT able to finish casting it before a sorc will hit another bolt escape. And after that, a NB will NEVER be in range to even try casting it. Of course, every NB tried it to chase sorcs. It's is useless in fights. Sometimes, you can't even gank with it - a target will be out of range before you finish the cast lol (usually, riders, of course).

Here you refuse to admit that sorcerer is not only class with teleport spell. It was a very simple question, and according to you, Teleport Strike does not teleport nightblades, because you figured out some exception. Guess what, Streak does not work when I'm out of magicka....so this entire thread is pointless according to your logic. Right? How do you expect me to have any kind of discussion against reasoning like that?

Artemis wrote: »

What if I want to? I was promised I can play the way I want. I was also promised my class will be relying on blades. Finally, my NB was the only class shown in medium armor. It is obvious, that I was misguided - it looked like this class was intended to be the best for physical damage. Now, I HAVE to keep playing him like that and whine, so that they change balancing or admit that I (and others) was misguided and let me reroll. Then, I wouldn't repeat my mistake, roll one of magic-based classes and would maybe have fun in this game, too.

I was promised that I can play the way I want too, and if I want to perma kill your nightblade and empty your bank, the game won't let me. Was I intentionally misguided too? As for your options, you could also respec your Nightblade and use blades and your class skills instead of a bow.

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

I wasn't directing that completely at you but ....... you use medium armor and daggers but no stamina abilities?

Daggers aren't the only 1h weapon.

Also, I don't use stamina builds because my best abilities require magicka. My medium armor upgrades give me upgrades to stealth and melee damage. That's what I use it for. All stamina abilities are unnecessary unless I use it to lower the stamina cost of stealthing or dodging. Sprinting is inconsequential since I use a horse, and Teleport Strike will handle the distance for me.

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

So this time you admit that your class has a Teleport skill, and it's abusable, but it's not a problem, because only magicka-build NBs can use it.
Here you refuse to admit that sorcerer is not only class with teleport spell. It was a very simple question, and according to you, Teleport Strike does not teleport nightblades, because you figured out some exception.

Teleport Strike doesn't teleport like BE. BE can teleport you in the direction you tell it to teleport, while TS only teleports towards enemies who are in range of the teleport. It's not useful for getting out of situations, it's useful for getting in situations.

Rune_Relic · September 2014

The idea is the fighters should have heavy armour and be able to soak up damage.
The assassins in medium would be more supple and better blocking/dodge but take more damage if the block/dodge failed
The sorcs in light would be least mitigation of damage so need a way to evade..hence teleport. Simply not be there. If it fails they should take serious damage.

You just have to stun them 1st....like swatting the fly

darkspyro92_ESO · September 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

The idea is the fighters should have heavy armour and be able to soak up damage.
The assassins in medium would be more supple and better blocking/dodge but take more damage if the block/dodge failed
The sorcs in light would be least mitigation of damage so need a way to evade..hence teleport. Simply not be there. If it fails they should take serious damage.

You just have to stun them 1st....like swatting the fly

I don't know how you swat flies, but I just catch them in my hand and throw them outside.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

And....We are still talking about Bolt Escape.....I really wish this issue would just die.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

Azraeel wrote: »

I don't remember in any game I've played before where all classes had the same abilities. If such game exists, then it would be extremely LAME. Diversity is what makes any game interesting.

I'm not saying give all the classes the same abilities. I'm not even saying that here. I'm saying something similar to it. The NB and Sorc both have summoning spells, and nobody complains about that. Unless you don't consider "Summon Shade" a summoning spell.

Eh...I'd be hard pressed to call a non controllable dumbfire pet a "summoning ability". It's really just a debuff that takes the graphic of a "pet". Also: "I'm not saying give all the classes the same abilities." except you kind of are. Sure you are dressing them up differently, but they are all essentially the same thing.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2014

Garion wrote: »

Go find me a decent sorcerer who doesn't use streak or BoL in some capacity - I guarantee you will struggle. Remove it and sorc will be a useless cannon fodder class when compared with the others who have distinct capabilities and strengths.

Stop QQing already. It is threads and posts such as these that lead Zenimax to believe there is a problem (when the only problem is a L2P one) and ultimately contribute to the increasing unpopularity of the game (who wants to play the char they have spent hours on when forum QQers beg for Zenimax to cripple their chosen class?)

Go play a sorc and use the skill and then come back and make some arguments other than "oh they can run away". Can we do uber self heals and tank 10 + people as well as take a few of them down? The answer to that question is no. Can we activate a cloak and disappear (run away?!!?) No. Can we activate a shield that keeps us up for ages as well as dealing phenomenal damage to those around us? No. Bolt escape is our ONLY class distinct survivability skill. That is why it is there and that is why it should remain.

I agree. We really should be focusing on the aspects of the game are actually broken or need improvement. Not every class needs or should have a teleport.

Artis · October 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

No, I studied computer science. Even you have to admit, that you have gaps how sorcerer class is working and some problems of admitting how your own class or this game works. Most of the time you either contradict yourself or just don't have a clue what you are talking about, and when you realize the other party was right, you just make some wild theory and spin topic to other direction, so I hardly call that a discussion.

I do not spin topic to any other direction. I do not have any problems admitting how my class works. I play it and I know how it is. Probably, you don't and that's why you can't believe what I'm saying?
p.s. "Studied" means you're a drop out or just took one class for fun, but have no degree?

Mendoze wrote: »

So this time you admit that your class has a Teleport skill, and it's abusable, but it's not a problem, because only magicka-build NBs can use it. And that's what, maybe about 50% of Nightblade population? Also no magicka based NB wants to be in melee range? Lets make a quick list here: Assassin's Blade, Veiled Strike, Teleport Strike and even Aspect of Terror CC are all melee range skills and their damage scales with magicka. Funnily enought, I see those skills in my death recap quite often, so do you still think that no magicka based NB wants to fight at melee range?

LOL. How can you compare target-based Teleport Strike that at best will stun one target and godly Bolt Escape that can be used for both chasing and retreating as it needs no target plus if morphed correctly it stuns all in its way ignoring CC immunity?
Also, yeah, magicka based NB in melee range dies too quickly because he has no save abilities and heals are just ridiculously low. You understand that death recap doesn't mean much, because a) if you talk about large-scale battles it doesn't matter which happens to be the last one; b) you don't know how many deaths those NBs have per one kill.
Also, there're not only NBs out there? How will a DK catch a sorc who already has CC immunity active?

Mendoze wrote: »

And we were discussing about spammable skills, not instant cast skills. Skill can be spammed even if it's not instant cast. For example Reflecting Scales spamming DKs, Blazing Shield spamming Templars, Impulse Spammers or Bolt Escape spamming sorcerer. See?

You can spam Teleport Strike all you want. You will never catch a sorc. He will bolt escape out of your range very soon because TS has a cast time and it doesn't ignore CC immunity. There is NO way you can chase a sorc who's BEing with a TS.

Mendoze wrote: »

Ok, I have to admit I was trolling here. I knew what you meant, but that really is description of classic Nightblade. But anyways, would it make you happy if light armor was Sorcerer only, and Templars and DKs could only use heavy armor, because they have those in character creator image? That famous "Play as you want" phrase you like so much of course should not apply here, because this time it's not working like YOU want.

Of course it wouldn't. I am glad we can have such a diversity, but we don't. Everyone needs to wear Light Armor now, but that's another topic. I don't whine that NBs can't stunlock to death. I whine that they do not synergize with physical damage builds. I mean, really, I chose a NB cuz I saw him in medium armor and I wanted to make an archer (not even a WoW-like rogue to stunlock ppl, no).

Mendoze wrote: »

Yes even stamina based sorcerers can use BE 2-3 times before they are OOM, just like stamina based Nightblades can use cloak couple of times, so what is the problem in that? If you fail to catch melee sorcerer when he is OOM, I really can't help you there. Your next statement makes even less sense. You want sustained DPS and CC, and then you go for bow stamina build?!? So you want 2k ranged opener, sustained DPS, and enough CC or something to catch the most mobile class in game. That sure sounds balanced, doesn't it?'

The problem is that cloak is can be easily countered by Magelight (almost every magicka user has it) or a detection pot, other classes can go invisible, too(with an invis pot). However, nothing can counter or repeat Bolt Escape. BE can be used for both "getting in and out of trouble" -- a gift that NBs were promised to have... I can catch a melee sorc when he's OOM.. I could if they didn't stack shields and restore all their magicka. Also, sorcs are mostly ranged anyway. And we are talking about them.
Yes, it does sound balanced because I sacrifice survivability/heals. Also, never have I ever said anything about 2k opener. You need to start reading messages before replying.

Mendoze wrote: »

Here instead of admitting that it takes 1 of my active skill slots to take you out of hiding ( just like Path of Darkness takes from you ), you decided to spin this to a groups vs. solo nightblade discussion and accuse me of lying. Since I only said what it takes from my character I must have been lying, right? I'm so sorry, I try to remember to include NightBlade vs. Group comparisons in 1 vs.1 discussion from now on. Also you still keep on talking about spell crit....sheesh. How many times I have to explain that?

You are lying. Magelight is not useless it lets mages stack that crit AND get me out of invisibility. It is a part of most of the standard builds. Also, you can counter my "escape" with a detection pot => not having ANYTHING useless on your bars. Now tell me, how do I counter BE? Is there a potion that stops Sorcs from BEing? Or maybe, there's a no-brain toggle skill that does that? No? So don't you see the OPness? You're telling me that I need to have 20-40% of my skill bar taken by stuff that is usefull ONLY for catching a sorc (there's no way anyone would use retreating maneuvers in a solo build), when my cloak can be countered with a potion. Or repeated, so it's not unique.

Mendoze wrote: »

So here we have another discussion of in-game descriptions. Lets see:

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed. Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."

- Why it says in your description that you trust for luck and cunning, while my class is the one who is luck based? All your class skill should be proc based like CF currently is. My skills should all work 100% of the time.

Sure, I'm not against if they change it. But take away skills that make you do NB's stuff better than NBs.

Mendoze wrote: »

- Why Nightblades has Cloak skill? They should rely on their luck and cunning to survive!! Nerf Nightblades.
-

They need to rely variouslyon stealth. How do you bring a description but not even read it?

Mendoze wrote: »

- Why Nightblades have siphoning Tree, it says nowhere that you should be able to leech health from others? Nerf!!!!!!!!

Because Nightblades always leeched resources from others, all resources, not only health.

Mendoze wrote: »

- Why you have mass hysteria when it's not about stealth, blades or speed? This skill should be deleted or given to everybody.
-

Have you seen another morph? It's an invisible trap. It can't be given to anybody. Nightblades in TES games always used illusions school as help.

Mendoze wrote: »

- Ranged Nightblade??? Blashemy, nerf them immediately. It´s not mentioned in their description!!! They rely on stealth, blades and speed. If you don'y believe me, ask from Artemis
-

- How is ranged Nightblade can't rely on stealth and speed? That's exactly why I picked a NB when I wanted to make an archer. Because I expected that I will rely on blades(physical damage), stealth and SPEED, so they can't catch me. But no, no one catch a sorc and a sorc can easily catch me

Also, do not mix class and weapon skills. It's a bow/staff that makes me ranged.

Mendoze wrote: »

- Why Nightblades can teleport straight at their victims, when they should be using stealth and cunning to attack them? That is just brute force attack so delete that skill.

That's exactly what you call cunning. Teleport strike is only good when you cast it from stealth.

Mendoze wrote: »

"Sorcerers use conjuration and destruction spells, hurling lightning bolts and creating shock fields, wielding dark magic to snare and stun, and sumonning [sic] from Oblivion to conjure Daedric combat followers."

- Why my shock fields are so weak, that any class has better AoE from destruction staff skill line? We were promised we are the best AoE class out there, but look what we got. *Sniff* Nerf Nightblades, they can use destruction staves too!!!
- We were promised we are masters of snares and stuns, and still DKs talons are much better? Is that really fair, no it's not so nerf Nightblades.
- Why my pets are so weak that they can't be used in PVP? How I'm supposed to play now? Nerf Nightblades!!!!
- My class does not really support a melee build, so I think Nightblades should be nerfed because I can't play as I want.

Silly trolling.
-No one said it will be the best AoE. DKs were promised the best AoE, which they got.

and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them.

-No one said you were "masters". You wield dark magic to snare and stun. Can you snare/stun with your magic?
-Your pets are stronger that anyone else's pets.
-Your class supports a melee build so much better than NBs. See the video of that one-shotting sorc.

Mendoze wrote: »

Do I really need to continue? That class description is just a few lines of text and nothing else. And finally you keep on claiming that your class should rely on blades, but then complain how you can't softcap weapon power for....wait for it....bow. Make your mind before we continue this "conversation" please.

Feel free to continue. These few lines is the only information I have when I create my character. I was misguided so I will, of course, ask/demand/whine until my character takes the place I was promised it will take.

Mendoze wrote: »

Yes I have, I soloed to Captain rank, so I have some vague idea how Cyrodiil works. And here we have spell critical again? You still live in some fantasy world that spell crit boost sorcerer damage somehow in PVP environment. Sorcerer's can't stack over 100% spell crit ( without potions ), so it is not useful against impenetrable trait. It helps healers sure, but for DPS casters spell crit works like weapon crit works for melee. Do I need to explain how impenetrable trait works, or what makes this so hard to understand?

You can't stack more than 100x7=700 Imbenetrable(800 with a shield). Mages can stack more spell crit. And they do.

Mendoze wrote: »

Here you refuse to admit that sorcerer is not only class with teleport spell. It was a very simple question, and according to you, Teleport Strike does not teleport nightblades, because you figured out some exception. Guess what, Streak does not work when I'm out of magicka....so this entire thread is pointless according to your logic. Right? How do you expect me to have any kind of discussion against reasoning like that?

You're putting words in my mouth? I never refused to admit that others can't teleport. But sorcs are the only class that can teleport with NO TARGET REQUIRED. Don't you see the difference? YOu can use BE to retreat AND to chase. It doesn't have a cast time. Teleport Strike requires a target and has 1s cast. There is no way a NB can catch a sorc who doesn't want that. But you ignored that even though you quoted it, didn't you. And never have I ever said that teleport strike is not teleport.

Mendoze wrote: »

I was promised that I can play the way I want too, and if I want to perma kill your nightblade and empty your bank, the game won't let me. Was I intentionally misguided too? As for your options, you could also respec your Nightblade and use blades and your class skills instead of a bow.

Ahaha, melee stamina Nightblade. Don't even start. With no way to escape it's even worse than an archer who's at least ranged. Also, one of my skill bars is exactly the one with 2 blades.
Also, I don't claim to let me permakill everyone. I don't say I want to be way stronger than others. I want to be not weaker and I want to be able to do what I was promised to do when I was creating my character.
Also, just started the client again and checked - there's no promise anywhere that you can perma kill anyone or empty banks of other players.

Gilvoth · October 2014

teleport strike needs a target to be used and does NOT allow us nightblades to escape anything and in addition the teleport strike stunn is by Chance, it does not stunn 100% it is based on a percentage of chance of stunn, the only time it has increased stunn chance is when it is used from complete invisibility and totaly Out of combat before it is cast.
where as the bolt escape does Not need a target. bolt escape allways has a 100% chance of stunn that never fails and also allows complete escape.
totaly oposite of teleports strike in many many ways.

Erock25 · October 2014

@Artemis‌

You are very wrong about magelight being prevalent in most builds. The only people using magelight are those that do not realize how awesome impenetrable trait is, those with it specifically to find pesky NBs, or those running in a large organized group zerg.

I can tell from your whining about NB skills that you would not excel even with another class. There are many out there doing very well on NB. There are many times when I'm caught while trying to Bolt Escape away. It was pretty funny reading your serious responses to that other guy making jokes about taking things away from NB because it doesn't fit into your precious description.

NB need a class dmg shield. DK need a 50% reduction to their returns on Battle Roar passive. With those two changes, all is balanced in the world (as far as pvp goes).

Artis · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

@Artemis‌

You are very wrong about magelight being prevalent in most builds. The only people using magelight are those that do not realize how awesome impenetrable trait is, those with it specifically to find pesky NBs, or those running in a large organized group zerg.

I can tell from your whining about NB skills that you would not excel even with another class. There are many out there doing very well on NB. There are many times when I'm caught while trying to Bolt Escape away. It was pretty funny reading your serious responses to that other guy making jokes about taking things away from NB because it doesn't fit into your precious description.

NB need a class dmg shield. DK need a 50% reduction to their returns on Battle Roar passive. With those two changes, all is balanced in the world (as far as pvp goes).

I say what I see. Never have I ever encountered a group without at least one person using either magelight or detection pots. You didn't get the idea. The idea is not that you have to run magelight. The point is that there are ways to counter cloak and those ways are available for everyone and they don't even take slots on your skill bars sometimes(potions).

It is very funny how you make conclusions based on messages. You have absolutely no idea how I play and trying to insult me doesn't make you look better. And yeah, sure I can't excel as others? Pressing a few buttons is nowhere hear difficult. Some classes/builds are mathematically stronger than others. It does not take skill to keep the blazing shield up, so don't even go there. Also, I did catch sorcs with bolt escape if they start escaping having magicka for 1 cast. More often they would have enough magicka to cast it at least 2-3 times and in most cases you can't catch them.
I ride 75% horse. I was chasing a sorc from one keep to another - and there was no way to catch him. Am I riding it wrong? Lacking some special "skill" or what? Of course not. It's just numbers in this game are wrong which makes it possible for sorcs to move faster than people of the fastest mounts.

Answering to him was exactly to show how ridiculous his points are and they do not work with sorcs mostly. I didn't pay attention to those "nerf nbs" things, if a person is mental that doesn't mean I have to comment on everything he says. I was commenting on initial inputs such as "why nb has cloak still".
And the fact that NBs are NOT what they seem to be when you create a character IS a problem. But the topic is about bolt escape.

And bolt escape needs to be nerfed OR other skills (as common as BE) need to be buffed. Either way is good as long as you can catch a sorc.

Erock25 · October 2014

@Artemis‌

So you say what you see but all a sudden you are saying one in every GROUP uses magelight instead of what you said earlier, which is that almost every magicka user uses magelight, so which did you actually see? I must apologize for 'not getting the idea' when the literal interpretation of your exact words is not the idea. It seems you like to exaggerate which is what I gather from all of your posts.

Don't you realize you are whining and complaining about a skill that you yourself have never used. I have been caught many MANY times using Streak with 2500 magicka, 5/5 warlock, 5/5 seducer sets going. I've been caught on a horse as well. I have also lost track of NBs using their Cloak many MANY times. These are all facts that you can choose to believe or not but you're incessant whining for nerfing an already nerfed skill is laughable.

Artis · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

@Artemis‌

So you say what you see but all a sudden you are saying one in every GROUP uses magelight instead of what you said earlier, which is that almost every magicka user uses magelight, so which did you actually see? I must apologize for 'not getting the idea' when the literal interpretation of your exact words is not the idea. It seems you like to exaggerate which is what I gather from all of your posts.

Don't you realize you are whining and complaining about a skill that you yourself have never used. I have been caught many MANY times using Streak with 2500 magicka, 5/5 warlock, 5/5 seducer sets going. I've been caught on a horse as well. I have also lost track of NBs using their Cloak many MANY times. These are all facts that you can choose to believe or not but you're incessant whining for nerfing an already nerfed skill is laughable.

What do you mean, which one? One of them includes the other one completely. There's absolutely no contradiction between every and at least one. I see that most of the magicka-users has magelight on.

The fact that you were caught with full magicka only speaks about your skill/capability, not about bolt escape. It sucks that you were caught by someone on a horse - you need to practice your resource-management more. It is possible to never let a rider catch you. Or will you argue and say that I use a horse in some different way?
oh no, wait a second. it doesn't suck, it is supposed to be like that if we talk balance. However, competent sorcerers do not let people on horses approach.

p.s. then again, I already spelled the point for you - it is possible to counter cloak (without using any of your skill bar space). Where is the way to do it with BE? Let's not forget, that Cloak can be used only to hide/escape. BE can be used for both escaping AND chasing (if morphed correctly - to CC everyone on its way ignoring aoe cap and cc immunity). So why is the spell that is not as good and versatile is also countered easier?

Erock25 · October 2014

Artemis wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@Artemis‌

So you say what you see but all a sudden you are saying one in every GROUP uses magelight instead of what you said earlier, which is that almost every magicka user uses magelight, so which did you actually see? I must apologize for 'not getting the idea' when the literal interpretation of your exact words is not the idea. It seems you like to exaggerate which is what I gather from all of your posts.

Don't you realize you are whining and complaining about a skill that you yourself have never used. I have been caught many MANY times using Streak with 2500 magicka, 5/5 warlock, 5/5 seducer sets going. I've been caught on a horse as well. I have also lost track of NBs using their Cloak many MANY times. These are all facts that you can choose to believe or not but you're incessant whining for nerfing an already nerfed skill is laughable.

What do you mean, which one? One of them includes the other one completely. There's absolutely no contradiction between every and at least one. I see that most of the magicka-users has magelight on.

The fact that you were caught with full magicka only speaks about your skill/capability, not about bolt escape. It sucks that you were caught by someone on a horse - you need to practice your resource-management more. It is possible to never let a rider catch you. Or will you argue and say that I use a horse in some different way?
oh no, wait a second. it doesn't suck, it is supposed to be like that if we talk balance. However, competent sorcerers do not let people on horses approach.

p.s. then again, I already spelled the point for you - it is possible to counter cloak (without using any of your skill bar space). Where is the way to do it with BE? Let's not forget, that Cloak can be used only to hide/escape. BE can be used for both escaping AND chasing (if morphed correctly - to CC everyone on its way ignoring aoe cap and cc immunity). So why is the spell that is not as good and versatile is also countered easier?

You are like talking to a wall if you can't see the difference between "every person that focuses on magicka has magelight" and "one in every group has magelight."

My resource management is just fine thank you and I do very well in PVP. I am going to guess that is you who has the problem catching a Sorc on your 75% speed horse.

So in this topic, talking about bolt escape, your point is that it is weak that cloak has a detection potion and magelight counter? Why don't you just stick to advocating the buffing of cloak then instead of bashing on Sorc. The facts are I can only Streak twice from full magicka on my stamina built Sorc. I'm not sure how much more nerfed you could possibly make Streak.

kewl · October 2014

Statement
Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out?

Rebuttal
NB have 2 teleport abilities:

Teleport Strike - Player moves through the shadows, appearing next to the target. Deals 17 Magic Damage to target and stuns monsters for 1.5 seconds.

Shadow Image - Summons a shade to attack target for 20 seconds. The shade's attack causes the target to deal 15% less damage for 4 seconds. Activate again to teleport player to shade.

Conclusion
Statement is incorrect.

Resolution
Go away.

kewl · October 2014

Statement
Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out?

Rebuttal
NB have 2 teleport abilities:

Teleport Strike - Player moves through the shadows, appearing next to the target. Deals 17 Magic Damage to target and stuns monsters for 1.5 seconds.

Shadow Image - Summons a shade to attack target for 20 seconds. The shade's attack causes the target to deal 15% less damage for 4 seconds. Activate again to teleport player to shade.

Conclusion
Statement is incorrect.

Resolution
Go away.

Artis · October 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

You are like talking to a wall if you can't see the difference between "every person that focuses on magicka has magelight" and "one in every group has magelight."

My resource management is just fine thank you and I do very well in PVP. I am going to guess that is you who has the problem catching a Sorc on your 75% speed horse.

So in this topic, talking about bolt escape, your point is that it is weak that cloak has a detection potion and magelight counter? Why don't you just stick to advocating the buffing of cloak then instead of bashing on Sorc. The facts are I can only Streak twice from full magicka on my stamina built Sorc. I'm not sure how much more nerfed you could possibly make Streak.

I'm indeed talking to a wall if you keep bringing up magelight when the point is that cloak IS counterable. Although almost every magicka user does have it.. And the impenetrable point makes no sense. If everyone knows well that there's no point to stack crit because everyone is in impenetrable, then what's the point to wear impenetrable if no one is running spell crit? And if no one is wearing impenetrable then why not stack spell crit?

Okay, so it's just me who can't catch a sorc on a horse. You need to stop trolling, because this makes no sense. There is absolutely no way the way I ride the horse is different from the way someone else does it. It's not me, it's the speed of the horse vs how many time a sorc can cast BE. Simple math. Then again, you do need better management, there are sorcs that you can't touch if you see each other (you're on a horse) and then he starts running away. Of course, I never said that a horse and a sorc start at the same point. That almost never happens - you can't mount up in combat. If you just ride and see him from afar and he sees you - you will never catch him.

I am advocating buffing of cloak. It is NOT related to nerfing BE. Buffing a cloak will not make BE counterable. And streak needs to be nerfed so that a sorc ( ANY, not just stamina-based) can't just spam it and leave the fight anytime with almost no chance to catch him (alone).

kewl wrote: »

Statement
Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out?

Rebuttal
NB have 2 teleport abilities:

Teleport Strike - Player moves through the shadows, appearing next to the target. Deals 17 Magic Damage to target and stuns monsters for 1.5 seconds.

Shadow Image - Summons a shade to attack target for 20 seconds. The shade's attack causes the target to deal 15% less damage for 4 seconds. Activate again to teleport player to shade.

Conclusion
Statement is incorrect.

Resolution
Go away.

Another one who doesn't see that BE doesn't require a target or has a cast time, unlike those NB skills. You can't use any of them to escape. Only to chase. BE can be used for both PLUS Streak stuns everyone ignoring CC immunity and aoe cap. Omg, these sorcs are so funny. Everyone tells them that Streak's OP, but they choose not to see the obvious.

darkspyro92_ESO · October 2014

kewl wrote: »

Statement
Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out?

Rebuttal
NB have 2 teleport abilities:

Teleport Strike - Player moves through the shadows, appearing next to the target. Deals 17 Magic Damage to target and stuns monsters for 1.5 seconds.

Shadow Image - Summons a shade to attack target for 20 seconds. The shade's attack causes the target to deal 15% less damage for 4 seconds. Activate again to teleport player to shade.

Conclusion
Statement is incorrect.

Resolution
Go away.

Teleport Strike - Target based teleport

Shadow Image - Can only be used to teleport to Shade.

Bolt Escape - Can be used to teleport in any direction with the only restrictions being how far you can teleport and amount of magicka you have.

Gilvoth · October 2014

i did alot of extensive study on that teleport to shade and it does not work like what you are describing, it is on a very limited and short timer and it completely keeps me out in the open and easily attacked and killed, it also has a very short window of space with which i can use it.
it glitches alot and also if i do cast him and expect to teleport back to him it does sometimes fail and also sometimes he has to be recast in order to work properly, in addition he can only be cast and set up with a target which will immediatly take me out of stealth.
in addition to that, he also glitches and allows people to know exactly where i iwll be apering when i do succesfully use him and he actually works. which most of the time means it was useless.
in short to summerize : he is prety much glitched most of the time and not very dependable. he has caused my death several times because he is easily seen by the enemy in pvp.

i stay with my 1st shade and i do not allow him to be morphed as he does more damage as a single individual -which aint much, but it does help by about 6% which is by far better then its 2 choices in morph.

darkspyro92_ESO · October 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i did alot of extensive study on that teleport to shade and it does not work like what you are describing, it is on a very limited and short timer and it completely keeps me out in the open and easily attacked and killed, it also has a very short window of space with which i can use it.
it glitches alot and also if i do cast him and expect to teleport back to him it does sometimes fail and also sometimes he has to be recast in order to work properly, in addition he can only be cast and set up with a target which will immediatly take me out of stealth.
in addition to that, he also glitches and allows people to know exactly where i iwll be apering when i do succesfully use him and he actually works. which most of the time means it was useless.
in short to summerize : he is prety much glitched most of the time and not very dependable. he has caused my death several times because he is easily seen by the enemy in pvp.

i stay with my 1st shade and i do not allow him to be morphed as he does more damage as a single individual -which aint much, but it does help by about 6% which is by far better then its 2 choices in morph.

Summon Shade is useless anyways. They don't agro, they do barely any damage, they barely have any health, they're just completely useless. They aren't even worthy to be meat shields.

Cody · October 2014

Mendoze wrote: »

darkspyro92_ESO wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Topic says "Sorcerers get an abusable teleport spell but other classes are left out". That in itself is already wrong. For examble Nightblades have Teleport Strike. That moves your from point A to point B, am I right or wrong?

Teleport Strike only allows you to teleport to an enemy, not to any location you aim at. It is a blink towards an enemy to slash them and get close to them to use other abilities, but has a limited range. A Bolt Escape if used all the way will get out of the range of a NB's Teleport Strike, and will leave them stunned and helpless against any team mates the enemy might have, being that NB's are more effective at taking on single targets than large amounts of targets like a DK can. NB has AoE attacks such as Lotus Fan (upgraded from Teleport Strike), but they are less effective than DK attacks.

Does Teleport Strike teleports you to sorcerer or not? If it does, then I'd say sorcerers are not only ones who can teleport. Am I right or wrong? Also Teleport Strike has longer range than BE or any of it's morphs. If sorcerer uses it more than once, he has to pay higher price, and then he is out of range to do anything to NB. You are free to chase or go invis, you have tools for both.

What on earth NB vs. DK AoE capabilities has to do with nerf Bolt Escape thread?

teleport strike is not like BE. it can only be used if you are targeting an enemy.

all I wanted to say. carry on:)

Mendoze · October 2014

@Artemis
Apparently no matter what I say about mage light or how spell critical works in PVP will change your mind, so I think it's totally pointless to continue that discussion. Lets just say we agree to disagree.

Since you still think that nerfing Bolt Escape somehow makes your Nightblade skills and stamina build work better, or few lines of in-game class description justifies nerfing another class, continuing that discussion is kind of pointless too.

And finally, since for you moving instantly from point A to point B is not teleporting if it requires a target, I really don't know what to say to change your mind. I consider that discussion over also.