ZOS hates stamina/melee and wants it to die!

Phinix1

Weapon damage/stamina builds are made essentially useless in end-game/trial content by bad class design decisions, regardless of how high they pump the soft cap.

NB Magicka based melee build?

All of the best, most useful, and most fun melee builds, especially for Nightblade, use mostly CLASS abilities with some weapon skills mixed in like Rapid Strikes from Dual Wield.

Melee-range/oriented class skills (like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc.) use SPELL DAMAGE and MAGICKA to determine damage, even though they do use weapon CRIT.

Tell me, what sense does that make?

What's more, staff abilities (like Impulse and Crushing Shock) scale off Weapon Damage and MAGICKA, while EVERY OTHER WEAPON scales off Weapon Damage and STAMINA.

That is why light armor/staff users do roughly twice the DPS of any stamina-based build. They can put ALL their points into Magicka and max their class AND weapon abilities, while other builds using melee weapons get split, lowering both.

If they simply made melee-range/oriented class skills scale off Weapon Damage/Stamina (again they already use weapon crit) we wouldn't have this balance issue and NB getting gimped into a cliche Light Armor/Resto staff build or get dumped from trials.

Or, MUCH better, if they made it so ALL class abilities (not just ultimates) scaled off the stats that would benefit you the most, we wouldn't have this problem.

But honestly, what good does raising the cap for ALL builds do to improve this imbalanced situation?

I really wanted to make a Dual Wield/Bow-based Stamina build work, but more and more as I see the direction they are going, I am forced to agree with what most have already concluded.

ESO = Equip Staff Only.

Clunan

This argument would have been valid months ago. As it stands now, a dw/bow NB is MORE than viable for any occasion. I honestly see this as a l2p moment, you're probably doing something wrong and don't realize it. Hmu if you need any help.

Phinix1

Please explain how you arrived at this conclusion that DW/Bow NB is more than viable unless it maxes magicka and spell power? Even in that scenario, you will be gimping your bow and melee weapon abilities to achieve it.

All of the class skills still use Magicka and Spell Power to determine damage, even the melee class skills that use weapon crit. The point here is that Stamina/Weapon Damage builds are horribly biased against by design.

You either gimp your class skills (which are the bulk of your DPS) by going Stamina, or you gimp your weapon skills by going Magicka. Any build that uses anything other than a staff basically ends up gimping both.

This has not changed. Light Armor/Staff builds are free to max out BOTH using ONE stat archetype. That is ridiculously unbalanced and why people continue to get kicked from trials unless they go with LA/Staff/Magicka builds.

kieso

I don't know, in a sense it does make sense that class skills use magicka and weapons skills use stam in that it does simplify stuff but at the same time you're right in that it also makes no sense since melee looking class abilities scale off weapon crit and whatnot. So I don't know this is one of those things the more I think about the more I don't want to think about it.

Thralgaf

Clunan wrote: »

This argument would have been valid months ago. As it stands now, a dw/bow NB is MORE than viable for any occasion. I honestly see this as a l2p moment, you're probably doing something wrong and don't realize it. Hmu if you need any help.

I think you need to read his post again. He brings up a valid point that has yet to be addressed.

ers101284b14_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw2sex1mJNI

Clunan

The ONLY validity this guy has, is the fact that staff skills use magicka. And the lack of sense making some class skills use weapon crit. BUT calling a dw/bow NB useless without maxing SP and magicka is wrong. It's just wrong. People who effectively use a stamina build, learn to use class skills that augment their weapon skills, IE a stamina sorc that uses magicka for Surge, and relies on his weapon skills for DPS. I wouldn't have dismissed his ideas so quickly, except that he insists that a stamina based bow/dw NB is "useless". It might be lacking, but is far from useless, and calling it such makes him look like a crybaby, which I am sure is not the case.

Phinix1

Magicka users with light armor and staff can dump all their resource points into magicka and spell power and max both their class and weapon abilities, while stamina/weapon damage users have to split and end up gimping both.

Medium armor is nice for weapon crit, but you can get as much or more from magic crit sets and one Mage's Guild ability Inner Light.

Right now, melee/stamina/weapon damage builds can't touch magicka/spell power builds for DPS, even after the latest 1.3.3 changes. Go to a site like Tamriel Foundry where people parse the combat logs and collect actual DATA on this to see for yourself.

Even the best stamina/melee builds are barely able to pull 700 DPS. That is just sad when 1k is considered on the LOW end for magicka builds.

I'm not saying don't play the way you want. You should. I am still stubbornly refusing to give up on my DW/Bow medium armor NB. But the sad fact is, we are badly gimped by the class mechanics.

Jaxom

Clunan wrote: »

The ONLY validity this guy has, is the fact that staff skills use magicka. And the lack of sense making some class skills use weapon crit. BUT calling a dw/bow NB useless without maxing SP and magicka is wrong. It's just wrong. People who effectively use a stamina build, learn to use class skills that augment their weapon skills, IE a stamina sorc that uses magicka for Surge, and relies on his weapon skills for DPS. I wouldn't have dismissed his ideas so quickly, except that he insists that a stamina based bow/dw NB is "useless". It might be lacking, but is far from useless, and calling it such makes him look like a crybaby, which I am sure is not the case.

That's not what he is saying at all. You should reread the OP. He wants to use class abilities (Ambush, Surprise attack, Killer's blade) which all scale from Spell Power and Magicka but uses weapon crit, to scale with which ever pool is higher (like Ultimates now).

The problem is, you cannot spec for Bow or DW without completely ruining the damage of your class abilities. Sure, you can split your stats but you are not good at anything now. Why can't I have a Bow on one bar, and my class abilities on another without one being very weak?

I've used both set ups. When speced with Magicka and Spell Power, my Ambush and Surprise attack hit like a truck while my bow a wet noodle. Reverse the stats and now my bow hits hard yet my class abilities aren't worth the slot on my bar anymore. There is no happy medium.

If you make the class abilities scale based on your preferred stat you get the best of both worlds. The abilities themselves will still use magicka or stamina, but at least the damage isnt gimped.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Clunan wrote: »

The ONLY validity this guy has, is the fact that staff skills use magicka. And the lack of sense making some class skills use weapon crit. BUT calling a dw/bow NB useless without maxing SP and magicka is wrong. It's just wrong. People who effectively use a stamina build, learn to use class skills that augment their weapon skills, IE a stamina sorc that uses magicka for Surge, and relies on his weapon skills for DPS. I wouldn't have dismissed his ideas so quickly, except that he insists that a stamina based bow/dw NB is "useless". It might be lacking, but is far from useless, and calling it such makes him look like a crybaby, which I am sure is not the case.

This is about class skills. now bow or DW skills.

Even if they equip DW/Bow, increasing their weapon damage won't help any class skills they happen to use, especially in DW mode. DW mode is likely to have Impale and teleport strike or such yes? they go by spell damage and magicka. the dual weps don't help those at all. They even deal magic damage while using weapon crit, which is the same sillyness found on other classes. When you are lowering a targets ARMOR with various skills, what does dealing magic damage do for you then?

Clunan

Stave skills go off of weapon damage, so no, you cant ignore weapon damage as a staff user. You can however ignore stamina, whereas stamina users HAVE to use some form of magicka. Im not telling you to give up, but with these 1.3 set changes, and other changes, I have yet to see any current data. And NBs do have a bit of a headsup in pvp atm, even stam ones, venom arrow lightweaving is vicious. It is unbalanced, but it's getting better, and once again this dramatic title and bold and useless NB comments are hurting your valid argument.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Clunan wrote: »

Stave skills go off of weapon damage, so no, you cant ignore weapon damage as a staff user. You can however ignore stamina, whereas stamina users HAVE to use some form of magicka. Im not telling you to give up, but with these 1.3 set changes, and other changes, I have yet to see any current data. And NBs do have a bit of a headsup in pvp atm, even stam ones, venom arrow lightweaving is vicious. It is unbalanced, but it's getting better, and once again this dramatic title and bold and useless NB comments are hurting your valid argument.

Resto staff changes that with a passive. They would do more damage with their class skills with a resto staff equipped while being able to heal in another manner and gain that magicka back with heavy attacks.

Kinda the same thing with every class too.

Clunan

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Clunan wrote: »

Stave skills go off of weapon damage, so no, you cant ignore weapon damage as a staff user. You can however ignore stamina, whereas stamina users HAVE to use some form of magicka. Im not telling you to give up, but with these 1.3 set changes, and other changes, I have yet to see any current data. And NBs do have a bit of a headsup in pvp atm, even stam ones, venom arrow lightweaving is vicious. It is unbalanced, but it's getting better, and once again this dramatic title and bold and useless NB comments are hurting your valid argument.

Resto staff changes that with a passive. They would do more damage with their class skills with a resto staff equipped while being able to heal in another manner and gain that magicka back with heavy attacks.

Kinda the same thing with every class too.

I do agree with you on this, the resto mag restore and damage buff are a lil OP. Dont know why a healing staff should have any buff to damage at all lol

Aortick

<Skills Resource>-<Health Resource>-<Sprinting/Blocking/Dodging Resource>

Wish they would implement something like this.

Teargrants

Ya stamina builds are completely useless, totally.

Ok now really though, saying that ZOS hates stamina builds is just rediculous hyperbole, considering all of the updates to medium/heavy armor, gear sets, and ultimate scaling that have been done now - as well as continued tweaks to stamina builds in the future. What's already been done marks a huge improvement for stamina builds, and one has to understand that changes like this need to be implemented incrementally over time to judge each individual tweak in order to maintain some semblance of balance rather than just resulting in new fotm builds.

If you refuse to akmowledge the direction of recent changes in favor of improving stamina builds, I really don't know how to take this thread seriously.

Tandor

I don't believe ZOS consider any skill or class imbalance acceptable, however when considering how best to tackle them they're probably aware of three main considerations:-

1. Their priority should be enabling all paying customers to log into the game and stay connected throughout their play session with acceptable performance levels.

2. Issues of skill and class imbalance are notoriously difficult to get right in PvP and any fixes should be taken slowly, especially so as not to cause additional issues in PvE.

3. Resolving any such imbalance issues should not be considered particularly urgent when the players' number one priority is debating whether or not to dye their characters pink.

Clunan

Aortick wrote: »

<Skills Resource>-<Health Resource>-<Sprinting/Blocking/Dodging Resource>

Wish they would implement something like this.

I think they should jst make it where stamina pools are bigger or last longer. That would solve it just as surely as changing the entire mechanics to allow stam users to dodge/occasionally block/dps

Kego

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

All of the best, most useful, and most fun melee builds, especially for Nightblade, use mostly CLASS abilities with some weapon skills mixed in like Rapid Strikes from Dual Wield.

And that will never Change. I play a Bow/1H-Shield Nb and my Stamina Skills are Venom Arrow, Lethal Arrow, Shield Assault and Absorb Magic. These are 4 out of 10 Skills that use Stamina.
My Magicka Skills are just for Utility and CC, besides Impale for Finisher.

Melee-range/oriented class skills (like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc.) use SPELL DAMAGE and MAGICKA to determine damage, even though they do use weapon CRIT.

Tell me, what sense does that make?

These Skills has to work with Stamina Builds and Magicka Builds. There for you decide:

Magicka Build = high Base DMG but lower Crit Chance
Stamina Build = high Crit Chance but lower Base DMG

If they simply made melee-range/oriented class skills scale off Weapon Damage/Stamina (again they already use weapon crit) we wouldn't have this balance issue and NB getting gimped into a cliche Light Armor/Resto staff build or get dumped from trials.

Beside some minor Buffs to specific Stamina Skills, there should be a large Nerf about Magicka Synergies. These Synergies are the Main issue about Magicka being so strong.

Or, MUCH better, if they made it so ALL class abilities (not just ultimates) scaled off the stats that would benefit you the most, we wouldn't have this problem.

No thanks.

But honestly, what good does raising the cap on a basically useless stat honestly do to improve the situation?

I like the new caps, with the new Stamina Regen Cap, I can now rely much more at Stamina Skills in PvP. The new Weapon Cap raises DMG as well.

Now it`s waiting for 1.4 and what ZOS is planning on doing next.

I really wanted to make a Dual Wield/Bow-based Stamina build work, but more and more as I see the direction they are going, I am forced to agree with what most have already concluded.

ESO = Equip Staff Only.

Again, you will never ever see a Stamina Build with more than 2 Stamina Skills that will be viable. You will always need about 3 Slots for Defense/Utility/CC.

Phinix1

Clunan wrote: »

Stave skills go off of weapon damage, so no, you cant ignore weapon damage as a staff user. You can however ignore stamina, whereas stamina users HAVE to use some form of magicka. Im not telling you to give up, but with these 1.3 set changes, and other changes, I have yet to see any current data. And NBs do have a bit of a headsup in pvp atm, even stam ones, venom arrow lightweaving is vicious. It is unbalanced, but it's getting better, and once again this dramatic title and bold and useless NB comments are hurting your valid argument.

A bit of a correction: Staff SKILLS (like Impulse and Crushing Shock) scale off Weapon Damage AND MAGICKA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr_OIx7bp7g

Also, light and heavy attacks scale off Weapon Damage and STAMINA (even for staff.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUATvbFDUQ

What this basically means again is that Magicka users see BOTH their class AND weapon skills (like Impulse and Crushing Shock) benefit from MAGICKA.

ANY weapon skill other than staff scales off Weapon Damage and STAMINA, which means that to max your main source of DPS (class skills) you need to go all magicka, thereby gimping your weapon skill damage, and vice versa.

The slightly better "white damage" from the stamina scaling half of the weapon damage/stamina scaled light/heavy attacks in no way comes close to making up for the massive loss of damage compared to a build that maxes Magicka and uses a staff with Impulse/Crushing Shock.

Phinix1

Kego wrote: »

Melee-range/oriented class skills (like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc.) use SPELL DAMAGE and MAGICKA to determine damage, even though they do use weapon CRIT.

Tell me, what sense does that make?

These Skills has to work with Stamina Builds and Magicka Builds. There for you decide:

Magicka Build = high Base DMG but lower Crit Chance
Stamina Build = high Crit Chance but lower Base DMG

Actually, using some of the new 1.3.3 sets and Inner Light, I can get as much or more spell crit as a magic user than I can get weapon crit as a melee stamina user.

The Nightblade class is totally screwed by this class design being completely biased to magic. If they just made them scale off your stronger stat like ultimates, that would not be the case.

Pretext

I use both pools; one runs out, I switch weapons and use other pool.

ESO = Equip Staffs Occasionally

Anastasia

Kego wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

All of the best, most useful, and most fun melee builds, especially for Nightblade, use mostly CLASS abilities with some weapon skills mixed in like Rapid Strikes from Dual Wield.

And that will never Change. I play a Bow/1H-Shield Nb and my Stamina Skills are Venom Arrow, Lethal Arrow, Shield Assault and Absorb Magic. These are 4 out of 10 Skills that use Stamina.
My Magicka Skills are just for Utility and CC, besides Impale for Finisher.

Melee-range/oriented class skills (like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc.) use SPELL DAMAGE and MAGICKA to determine damage, even though they do use weapon CRIT.

Tell me, what sense does that make?

These Skills has to work with Stamina Builds and Magicka Builds. There for you decide:

Magicka Build = high Base DMG but lower Crit Chance
Stamina Build = high Crit Chance but lower Base DMG

If they simply made melee-range/oriented class skills scale off Weapon Damage/Stamina (again they already use weapon crit) we wouldn't have this balance issue and NB getting gimped into a cliche Light Armor/Resto staff build or get dumped from trials.

Beside some minor Buffs to specific Stamina Skills, there should be a large Nerf about Magicka Synergies. These Synergies are the Main issue about Magicka being so strong.

Or, MUCH better, if they made it so ALL class abilities (not just ultimates) scaled off the stats that would benefit you the most, we wouldn't have this problem.

No thanks.

But honestly, what good does raising the cap on a basically useless stat honestly do to improve the situation?

I like the new caps, with the new Stamina Regen Cap, I can now rely much more at Stamina Skills in PvP. The new Weapon Cap raises DMG as well.

Now it`s waiting for 1.4 and what ZOS is planning on doing next.

I really wanted to make a Dual Wield/Bow-based Stamina build work, but more and more as I see the direction they are going, I am forced to agree with what most have already concluded.

ESO = Equip Staff Only.

>>>>Again, you will never ever see a Stamina Build with more than 2 Stamina Skills that will be viable. You will always need about 3 Slots for Defense/Utility/CC.<<<

---

Insightful posts going on today but:

**********************************************************************************

Kego said: "Again, you will never ever see a Stamina Build with more than 2 Stamina Skills that will be viable. You will always need about 3 Slots for Defense/Utility/CC."

*******************************************************************************
Sorry, therein lies the rub (*rubbed raw) and because ZOS is throwing out crumbs thereby making a tiny gain here and there does NOT mean we are noticeably closer to balance.

Only being able to use two Stam abilities and then three OTHER is not what Magicka based users get to choose from to find a very optimum build. Why should those who want a Stam build have to? And be happy about it?? This is never going to be accepted by most vet PvErs as even reasonably on par with what the reverse sort of hotbar looks like for a Magicka Build....period.

And these threads and the discussions in guilds voice com and in-game text chat -- the frustration players feel which leads to decisions about continuing subs is going to continue to be notable. How many of us have guildies who may have quit for this reason plus a few others, but when we are in contact with them one of the main repeated questions is "Did they adjust the whole stam/magicka ratio thing?" I hate it when the convo's turn to that. We can all learn from discussing ways to 'make up' for the diminutive feel of Stam builds...but players figuring out a way to 'make it work minimally' isn't what we pay for.

Additionally, I think to a certain extent the differences in the way a stam build is played in PvP as opposed to PvE - whether it is a NB, DK or whatever, also totally 'muddies' up otherwise logical facts (anecdotal though they may be) as provided in this and other threads since official BETA prior even to live.

There is hope I suppose that Zeni staff is going to put a little more umph in a couple more adjustments eventually. But, this little bit of fiddling around that has been added in this patch is just that...a bone. Might evolve into something a bit closer to on par, but what Kego explained IS the frickkin' pits.

And we all know it.

Nylan

I dunno, I can make just about any build work, maybe you are playing it wrong?

Phinix1

Pretext wrote: »

I use both pools; one runs out, I switch weapons and use other pool.

ESO = Equip Staffs Occasionally

Point being, builds that must split stats between stamina and magicka for weapon and class skill damage will always do less damage overall than a build that can max BOTH with one stat.

Regen has proven to not be the issue in trials. Using Equilibrium and other class regen abilities along with potions ensures you don't run out of magic before the boss is dead.

Plus they have the additional advantage of being at range, away from mechanics certain bosses use that force melee to scatter and switch bars, resulting in null-damage gaps.

Wifeaggro13

Nylan wrote: »

I dunno, I can make just about any build work, maybe you are playing it wrong?

And yur DPs is what with your dual wield bow build in trials or Vr dungeons

Phinix1

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Nylan wrote: »

I dunno, I can make just about any build work, maybe you are playing it wrong?

And yur DPs is what with your dual wield bow build in trials or Vr dungeons

700 on a GOOD day, which is about HALF of what the light armor/staff users get.

Jaxom

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Nylan wrote: »

I dunno, I can make just about any build work, maybe you are playing it wrong?

And yur DPs is what with your dual wield bow build in trials or Vr dungeons

700 on a GOOD day, which is about HALF of what the light armor/staff users get.

Yep. I swapped back to Stamina since I wasnt really having fun with the staff light armor build. yes, it did a crap ton of damage, but not the style of play I enjoyed. My Resto NB build was hitting over 1k dps in Trials (the 4-5 times I've done it) with little effort.

I'm focusing on PvP now as I find it much more enjoyable so I'm back to Stamina due to cheap respecs (I leveled up as Bow/DW until I bit VR 5 pre nerf). My Bow/2H build can hit 500-700 dps on average, though I'm still leveling up on morphs I hadn't done yet so there is small room for improvement. The fact is, my old build had great sustain, my new build has OK sustain due to the new softcaps but it works for PvP, not PvE in any competitive environment. I've come to terms with it and would much rather "play how I want" knowing that I probably wont do trials but having more fun in game.

Anastasia

Jaxom wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Nylan wrote: »

I dunno, I can make just about any build work, maybe you are playing it wrong?

And yur DPs is what with your dual wield bow build in trials or Vr dungeons

700 on a GOOD day, which is about HALF of what the light armor/staff users get.

Yep. I swapped back to Stamina since I wasnt really having fun with the staff light armor build. yes, it did a crap ton of damage, but not the style of play I enjoyed. My Resto NB build was hitting over 1k dps in Trials (the 4-5 times I've done it) with little effort.

I'm focusing on PvP now as I find it much more enjoyable so I'm back to Stamina due to cheap respecs (I leveled up as Bow/DW until I bit VR 5 pre nerf). My Bow/2H build can hit 500-700 dps on average, though I'm still leveling up on morphs I hadn't done yet so there is small room for improvement. The fact is, my old build had great sustain, my new build has OK sustain due to the new softcaps but it works for PvP, not PvE in any competitive environment. I've come to terms with it and would much rather "play how I want" knowing that I probably wont do trials but having more fun in game.

---

..."but it works for PvP, not PvE in any competitive environment."

Concur Jaxom. Its the only way I can have fun in this MMO. Luckily for me I don't have/never have had the fps or really any significant lag problems in PvP, though many friends I know do and that is so frustrating.

However, now that I'm focusing on PvP in TESO, the difference between how I feel after playing a couple of hours as opposed to slinking along muttering expletives left and right in what is called the PvE content is....just completely night and day. Obvious this game was made with PvP at its heart, and solo gamers as a priority with the PvE grouping/teaming/competitive content as a sort of surface sideshow.

Whether that changes in future content remains to be seen, but it has been a fact since launch and continues now after this most recent patch as well. Stam/magicka ratio is still a muddy mess, but I can enjoy my sexy lil stealther in Cyr...in PvE? In PvE she is just another utility build. Meh.

TehMagnus

Yet another rant post of people that want their PVP stamina builds to be as effective in trials as magicka builds that ONLY work in trials and are thought & theorycrafted FOR trials. This is getting old.

thorspark

I'm running a stamina build on my DK The Fiery Knight.
I'm running a stamina/vampire build with DW on my NB.
I'm running a magicka build on my sorcerer.

Since the update, I can output AS MUCH DPS with my stamina build (soft caped weapon damage) as with my magicka build, AoE (2k+), Single Target (900-1k3) for approximatively 30-40 seconds (using 2 pots).
Then I run dry on stamina and get a huge dps loss. I tried to find a way to get stamina back, but there isn't. Not like resto HA, not like Spell Symmetry or class skills. There's just no way at the moment to sustain the good dps.

Anastasia Said :
Only being able to use two Stam abilities and then three OTHER is not what Magicka based users get to choose from to find a very optimum build. Why should those who want a Stam build have to? And be happy about it??

Did you see magicka builds ? All of them ALSO use 3 utility spells >> Inner light, Spell Symmetry, CC, damage boost ...
The best rotation at the moment for a magicka user is just to spam LA Weaving with Crushing Shock/Scalding Rune and maybe a dot to refresh placed on the second Bar most of the time.
There's no difference with a Stamina build, you use 1 or 2 weapon/warrior skills for dps, and leave the rest for utility.

The problem with Stamina is not its dps (well, could be 5-10% more to be on par with staves), it's the stamina sustain that is just not viable.

Anastasia

thorspark wrote: »

I'm running a stamina build on my DK The Fiery Knight.
I'm running a stamina/vampire build with DW on my NB.
I'm running a magicka build on my sorcerer.

Since the update, I can output AS MUCH DPS with my stamina build (soft caped weapon damage) as with my magicka build, AoE (2k+), Single Target (900-1k3) for approximatively 30-40 seconds (using 2 pots).
Then I run dry on stamina and get a huge dps loss. I tried to find a way to get stamina back, but there isn't. Not like resto HA, not like Spell Symmetry or class skills. There's just no way at the moment to sustain the good dps.

Anastasia Said :
Only being able to use two Stam abilities and then three OTHER is not what Magicka based users get to choose from to find a very optimum build. Why should those who want a Stam build have to? And be happy about it??

Did you see magicka builds ? All of them ALSO use 3 utility spells >> Inner light, Spell Symmetry, CC, damage boost ...
The best rotation at the moment for a magicka user is just to spam LA Weaving with Crushing Shock/Scalding Rune and maybe a dot to refresh placed on the second Bar most of the time.
There's no difference with a Stamina build, you use 1 or 2 weapon/warrior skills for dps, and leave the rest for utility.

The problem with Stamina is not its dps (well, could be 5-10% more to be on par with staves), it's the stamina sustain that is just not viable.

---

Understood. So theres the whole STAMINA REGEN thingie, yes???