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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
PTS Patch Notes v1.3.2
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Kego✭✭✭✭Sure ... solo, from stealth, you can get one good hit. But that is not nearly as important as sustained dps and survivability (where we fall far behind).
Don't know your Nightblade, but mine can get a 100% crit in Grp fights as well.
With Enemies engaging -> Shadowy Disguise -> Lethal Arrow -> 1.500 Crit DMG + 50% Heal Debuff. Put that on their healer and he is dead in seconds.
Bow is absolutly viable in Grp PvP. And it doesn't need huge sustained DMG, cause PvP isn't about that. No fight lasts longer than a Raid PvE Battle. (Zerg vs Zerg not counted, cause there you have anytime you want for perfekt Snipes at Enemies, without pressure)
Ofc. they still need to balance the Skill Lines, but before that, they have to fix out anything else around it, like Stamina Regen. (done), Armor Sets (done).
As for Nightblades, I only see there two Issues with the defense:
1. Cloak gets kicked out by DoTs that we perform as well as Dark Cloak does not remove all Dots that exist in this game.
2. Inner Light & Stealth Detect Potions. The Potions should be removed from the Game or changed that they only work against hidden but not stealthed player. Mage Light and it's Morphs should get Stealth Detection removed. There for Radiant Mage Light would make more sence. Cause you decide if you want 20% Crit in PvP or 10% and be more safe against stealthy Attacks with it's 50% DMG reduction.
Those two fixes would make the Nightblade defense perfect.Edited by Kego on 1 August 2014 07:093 -
Anjelicus✭✭✭All those small heals require attacks.
Nightblades have no burstheal in combat like all other classes have.
DKs have much more dmg mitigation, while at the same time beeing able to dish out more dmg then Nightblades, and they can also instaheal themselves with several heals.
Half of those skills and morphs you mentioned noone are using.
uh.. Funnel Health actually is a nice burst heal to self/others if you spam it, granted its no green dragon blood, plus we don't get diminishing returns like DKs do.
Also, NBs out DPSing MOST DKs atm. I personally im pulling 1-1.3k in on every boss in AA, and an average 1k (excluding Warrior, because im healing for Starfall) in Hel Ra... this is single target mind you. I don't get you people whining and complaining about this class or that class... if you want to do the most dmg, but don't want to use the gear that compliments your class abilities (which are ALL magicka based!) please stop. If you want to wear heavy armor, and wield a 2H sword... fine, but don't cry when your stamina build is not up pulling the same numbers as a magicka build, in a game built around magicka.
You either adapt, or you settle... its that easy
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odiasuda✭✭✭All those small heals require attacks.
Nightblades have no burstheal in combat like all other classes have.
DKs have much more dmg mitigation, while at the same time beeing able to dish out more dmg then Nightblades, and they can also instaheal themselves with several heals.
Half of those skills and morphs you mentioned noone are using.
uh.. Funnel Health actually is a nice burst heal to self/others if you spam it, granted its no green dragon blood, plus we don't get diminishing returns like DKs do.
Also, NBs out DPSing MOST DKs atm. I personally im pulling 1-1.3k in on every boss in AA, and an average 1k (excluding Warrior, because im healing for Starfall) in Hel Ra... this is single target mind you. I don't get you people whining and complaining about this class or that class... if you want to do the most dmg, but don't want to use the gear that compliments your class abilities (which are ALL magicka based!) please stop. If you want to wear heavy armor, and wield a 2H sword... fine, but don't cry when your stamina build is not up pulling the same numbers as a magicka build, in a game built around magicka.
You either adapt, or you settle... its that easy
If this game is "built around magicka" then why have stamina-based abilities at all if they're not going to be competitive? What's their point?
I HIGHLY doubt the designers' intention was to have everyone in light armour wielding staves.2 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭All those small heals require attacks.
Nightblades have no burstheal in combat like all other classes have.
DKs have much more dmg mitigation, while at the same time beeing able to dish out more dmg then Nightblades, and they can also instaheal themselves with several heals.
Half of those skills and morphs you mentioned noone are using.
uh.. Funnel Health actually is a nice burst heal to self/others if you spam it, granted its no green dragon blood, plus we don't get diminishing returns like DKs do.
Also, NBs out DPSing MOST DKs atm. I personally im pulling 1-1.3k in on every boss in AA, and an average 1k (excluding Warrior, because im healing for Starfall) in Hel Ra... this is single target mind you. I don't get you people whining and complaining about this class or that class... if you want to do the most dmg, but don't want to use the gear that compliments your class abilities (which are ALL magicka based!) please stop. If you want to wear heavy armor, and wield a 2H sword... fine, but don't cry when your stamina build is not up pulling the same numbers as a magicka build, in a game built around magicka.
You either adapt, or you settle... its that easy
If this game is "built around magicka" then why have stamina-based abilities at all if they're not going to be competitive? What's their point?
I HIGHLY doubt the designers' intention was to have everyone in light armour wielding staves.
I think it was/is, and that they are very reluctant to change it. The system started out with a huge bias for magicka based abilities. Class skills: all magicka and scale on magicka. ultimates: scaled off magicka. mages guild: buffs magicka builds with potential double magicka cost reduction while the opposite fighters guild only has the ultimate morph doing anything. Powerful magicka focused gear sets with no stamina focused equivilats.
They have to do a lot more and i dont think they want to, because the underlying system is corrupt and bias toward magicka, light armor, and staves.7 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭Sure ... solo, from stealth, you can get one good hit. But that is not nearly as important as sustained dps and survivability (where we fall far behind).
Don't know your Nightblade, but mine can get a 100% crit in Grp fights as well.
With Enemies engaging -> Shadowy Disguise -> Lethal Arrow -> 1.500 Crit DMG + 50% Heal Debuff. Put that on their healer and he is dead in seconds.
Bow is absolutly viable in Grp PvP. And it doesn't need huge sustained DMG, cause PvP isn't about that. No fight lasts longer than a Raid PvE Battle. (Zerg vs Zerg not counted, cause there you have anytime you want for perfekt Snipes at Enemies, without pressure)
Ofc. they still need to balance the Skill Lines, but before that, they have to fix out anything else around it, like Stamina Regen. (done), Armor Sets (done).
As for Nightblades, I only see there two Issues with the defense:
1. Cloak gets kicked out by DoTs that we perform as well as Dark Cloak does not remove all Dots that exist in this game.
2. Inner Light & Stealth Detect Potions. The Potions should be removed from the Game or changed that they only work against hidden but not stealthed player. Mage Light and it's Morphs should get Stealth Detection removed. There for Radiant Mage Light would make more sence. Cause you decide if you want 20% Crit in PvP or 10% and be more safe against stealthy Attacks with it's 50% DMG reduction.
Those two fixes would make the Nightblade defense perfect.
And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
Its bad enough that NB's can crit for 2k dmg in pvp which I find extremely OP and absurd but you also want any type of counter for the stealth to be removed as well?
Just how big of an "I WIN" button do you need? jesus.
@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19759 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Are the Developers aware of Magicka and Stamina spec DPS performances?
Problem is not awareness. It has been shown many times that they just don't care, on the account that they either can't fix it because it needs an overhaul of the system which they royally messed up, or they just don't care.
They obviously care, troll. It's nice to stand on a soapbox and point out where everyone "royally messed up". Why don't you try to add something meaningful to a discussion.
They're likely in discussions to come up with various ways to address the issue without having to "overhaul" the system.
I'm sure it isn't as easy as any of us believe. Yes, even you.
I'm sure they care. They just haven't accepted that class based systems will always be imbalanced. They should never have had classes to begin with and this really wouldn't have been nearly as daunting to correct. The best thing they could do at this point is just abandon the classes and go strictly skill based. Some suggestions:- Make the class trees something that you earn through questing like the mages guild and fighters guild.
- Absorb the abilities into the weapon and armor lines.
- Make them part of the new spellcrafting system.
/Agree
If they were to merge/remove classes and just have skill lines this would level the playing field (this is one reason I really loved Ultima Online) there were no classes only skills and you were a lotted 700 skill/stat points to build your char of coarse later they raised it but u get the point. This would solve balance issues and open up more build diversity.
Edited by heyguyslol on 2 August 2014 02:48@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19752 -
Kego✭✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
How about an option to counter your Heals and DMG Shields for 100%? Would you like it? Let's make a Potion that grants any of my attacks an 10 second 100% Heal Debuff.Its bad enough that NB's can crit for 2k dmg in pvp which I find extremely OP and absurd but you also want any type of counter for the stealth to be removed as well?
Anyone can hide in the Game and make big Hits out of Hide. And if you don
t want to run around getting big Hits, how about not wearing 7/7 Light Armor?Just how big of an "I WIN" button do you need? jesus.
2,8 Second Stealth is no I WIN Button, it is our defense for not having any decent Heal or Absorb Shield outside the Resto staff.
Edited by Kego on 2 August 2014 08:472 -
Matuzes✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »
And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
Its bad enough that NB's can crit for 2k dmg in pvp which I find extremely OP and absurd but you also want any type of counter for the stealth to be removed as well?
Just how big of an "I WIN" button do you need? jesus.
Only Radiant Magelight should reveal players in invisibility.
Anyone can do high damage from sneak:
Matuzes - Imperial Nightblade
Headhunters2 -
Kego✭✭✭✭Wait you don`t want to tell me a DK can make 1.9K Crits an still has defense skills like:
- Dragon Blood, with 33% Heal and Stamina Regen or Armor Buff
- Spiked Armor with Armor Buff and Melee DMG Reflection for 17 Sec.
- Reflective Scale for Spell Reflection over 4 Sec.
But yeah our 2,8 Second Stealth is soooo OP for being our only defense class skill.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
Edited by Kego on 2 August 2014 10:342 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭I run @2999 hp with maxed armor and 80-90% impenetrable on gear and I get 2-3 shot killed/unbreakable CC'd vs skilled NBs without ANY chance to react. (next time I make I screenshot and I will post it) . Plus, with the next patch DMG from stealth will be even higher!! (+stats // +set bonus dmg from stealthed raised from 10% set bonus up to 20% more dmg)
And you want buffs? Are you [snip] kidding me!?
Mage light is a bad joke, with the right Setup of your enemy you do not see "very far", not at all!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on 2 August 2014 12:433 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
How about an option to counter your Heals and DMG Shields for 100%? Would you like it? Let's make a Potion that grants any of my attacks an 10 second 100% Heal Debuff.
It is called disease enchant on weapon.
You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Papa_Hunt✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
How about an option to counter your Heals and DMG Shields for 100%? Would you like it? Let's make a Potion that grants any of my attacks an 10 second 100% Heal Debuff.
It is called disease enchant on weapon.
Is this the glyph that simply says XX Disease Damage? The reason I ask is because I haven't found one that specifically says it hinders getting healed as a side effect.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Francescolg wrote: »I run @2999 hp with maxed armor and 80-90% impenetrable on gear and I get 2-3 shot killed/unbreakable CC'd vs skilled NBs without ANY chance to react. (next time I make I screenshot and I will post it) . Plus, with the next patch DMG from stealth will be even higher!! (+stats // +set bonus dmg from stealthed raised from 10% set bonus up to 20% more dmg)
And you want buffs? Are you [snip] kidding me!?
Mage light is a bad joke, with the right Setup of your enemy you do not see "very far", not at all!
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
This is why heavy armor is useless is PVP. The primary benefit of heavy armor is increased armor, but any NB is going to disable your armor in a myriad of different ways. So, there isn't much point in having it.Edited by timidobserver on 2 August 2014 23:01V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Srugzal✭✭✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
How about an option to counter your Heals and DMG Shields for 100%? Would you like it? Let's make a Potion that grants any of my attacks an 10 second 100% Heal Debuff.
It is called disease enchant on weapon.
No it isn't. That's something completely different, countered by disease resistance.1 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »And why on earth should they remove any option to try and counter NB stealth? like detect pots and Inner Light?
How about an option to counter your Heals and DMG Shields for 100%? Would you like it? Let's make a Potion that grants any of my attacks an 10 second 100% Heal Debuff.Its bad enough that NB's can crit for 2k dmg in pvp which I find extremely OP and absurd but you also want any type of counter for the stealth to be removed as well?
Anyone can hide in the Game and make big Hits out of Hide. And if you don
t want to run around getting big Hits, how about not wearing 7/7 Light Armor?Just how big of an "I WIN" button do you need? jesus.
2,8 Second Stealth is no I WIN Button, it is our defense for not having any decent Heal or Absorb Shield outside the Resto staff.
Well I play a sorc and I have yet to even come close to hitting anyone for 2k dmg in one single hit stealthed or unstealthed. Most I've seen out of our Crystal Fragments is about 1k.
@heyguyslol
__________________
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V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19750 -
Kego✭✭✭✭Nice. And are you a glass cannon like Nightblades with the only defense Ability being a 2,8 Sec. stealth? Or do you have more defensive mechanics that help you survive a fight that lasts longer?2
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demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Sorcs like to call themselves glass cannons too.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on 3 August 2014 14:000
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Blackhorne✭✭✭✭
/facepalmeventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Nightblade with light armor is a beast. 700+ crits with funnel health and insane selfheal with it too.monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »As if something like this would come in an minor Bugfix Patch.
The true Patch is 1.3.0. The other two minor patches are just fixes to it, there won't be something big, new arriving out of no where.
The Patch will come most likely end of next week, maybe a week later if they find a major bug that needs to be fixed.
Any more balancing of Stamina/Magicka and Armor Types will not occur until 1.4, if 1.4.0 will not point out any of it, than it won't come until 1.5.
Would just be good to know whether there is further balancing coming or not. (For me it means: Should I dump my main character and go for something like DK or Sorc with staff or should I just be patient some weeks/months)
Templar with blazing shield is OP like hell. I watched a templar in 1v1s recently and it always ended the same way: blazing shield 3k dmg onehit.
Every class is powerful if played right. So please stop complaining about class balance. It really isnt the problem here.
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Is there any debuff as werewolf unless you are in wolf form that makes you underdogs??
You seriously suggest that we are complaining about class imbalance because we are not "playing them right"? The whole point of this game was supposed to be play the way you want.
/facepalm
/facepalm
/facepalm
PLEASE stop taking that "play the way you want" quote so far out of context. It was originally in the context of traditional MMOs restrictions of equipment based on class or race. The point wasn't that you could play optimally with any build, but that you could experiment with any build/equipment combination to find what works best for you.Even if we were to "play them right" who decided that light armor was appropriate instead of medium armor? My assumption is that the nightblade was inspired by the stealthy rogue archetype. Unless I'm mistaken that usually means leather (medium) armor not cloth (light) armor. I believe the overwhelming majority of the fantasy gaming genre would agree with the medium armor being for rogues assessment so why would you insult the rest of us by that statement that we are simply not "playing it right"?
This is a perfect example of how "play the way you want" has actually succeeded. Because nightblades aren't forced to wear medium armor, some players experimented and found that they could produce highly effective nightblades wearing light armor instead of medium armor.
In many other MMOs, that would not even be possible.
But that does not make light armor a requirement -- you can still build a good nightblade with medium armor. The only people who believe that the nightblade has to wear light armor to be competitive are those who have fallen into the echo chamber.
Find the build and equipment combination which works best for you, and don't let yourself be limited by others' conceptions of the best build or traditional conceptions of the "appropriate" equipment for a class.4 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Blackhorne wrote: »
/facepalmeventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Nightblade with light armor is a beast. 700+ crits with funnel health and insane selfheal with it too.monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »As if something like this would come in an minor Bugfix Patch.
The true Patch is 1.3.0. The other two minor patches are just fixes to it, there won't be something big, new arriving out of no where.
The Patch will come most likely end of next week, maybe a week later if they find a major bug that needs to be fixed.
Any more balancing of Stamina/Magicka and Armor Types will not occur until 1.4, if 1.4.0 will not point out any of it, than it won't come until 1.5.
Would just be good to know whether there is further balancing coming or not. (For me it means: Should I dump my main character and go for something like DK or Sorc with staff or should I just be patient some weeks/months)
Templar with blazing shield is OP like hell. I watched a templar in 1v1s recently and it always ended the same way: blazing shield 3k dmg onehit.
Every class is powerful if played right. So please stop complaining about class balance. It really isnt the problem here.
---
Is there any debuff as werewolf unless you are in wolf form that makes you underdogs??
You seriously suggest that we are complaining about class imbalance because we are not "playing them right"? The whole point of this game was supposed to be play the way you want.
/facepalm
/facepalm
/facepalm
PLEASE stop taking that "play the way you want" quote so far out of context. It was originally in the context of traditional MMOs restrictions of equipment based on class or race. The point wasn't that you could play optimally with any build, but that you could experiment with any build/equipment combination to find what works best for you.Even if we were to "play them right" who decided that light armor was appropriate instead of medium armor? My assumption is that the nightblade was inspired by the stealthy rogue archetype. Unless I'm mistaken that usually means leather (medium) armor not cloth (light) armor. I believe the overwhelming majority of the fantasy gaming genre would agree with the medium armor being for rogues assessment so why would you insult the rest of us by that statement that we are simply not "playing it right"?
This is a perfect example of how "play the way you want" has actually succeeded. Because nightblades aren't forced to wear medium armor, some players experimented and found that they could produce highly effective nightblades wearing light armor instead of medium armor.
In many other MMOs, that would not even be possible.
But that does not make light armor a requirement -- you can still build a good nightblade with medium armor. The only people who believe that the nightblade has to wear light armor to be competitive are those who have fallen into the echo chamber.
Find the build and equipment combination which works best for you, and don't let yourself be limited by others' conceptions of the best build or traditional conceptions of the "appropriate" equipment for a class.
They are tho. As long as every class skill uses magicka, and light armor reduces that cost, regenerates that resource faster, and makes them do more damage by penetration, its the go-to armor for your 'class' to be better. Nightblades surely don't need to crit from medium armor, since they can get over 100% of both from just one of their class skills.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on 3 August 2014 14:021 -
YakoTaki✭✭✭
They are tho. As long as every class skill uses magicka, and light armor reduces that cost, regenerates that resource faster, and makes them do more damage by penetration, its the go-to armor for your 'class' to be better. Nightblades surely don't need to crit from medium armor, since they can get over 100% of both from just one of their class skills.
What skill?
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Selodaoc✭✭✭100%, not much extra dmg. Also costs 400+ magicka, and doesnt work if enemy are using magelight, or any kind of dot, or aoe, or you use dot.
Crystal shard can hit for 1400dmg+, instaproc for another 1000dmg.
2400dmg in about 2 seconds.
Then mages wrath for 1200dmg + 1000dmg explode.
You can kill someone in about 2,5 seconds as a sorc.
Also try using overload and spam normal attacks, then evey hit will do 1000dmg, from range.
NB will do 1200 dmg to light armor wears only from cloak + crouched. Then next hits are around 500-600.
Gotta make sure you get enemy below 20% so you can use impale before they heal themselves to max, or your dead.
That is for melee NB, and a reason i now only play Bow and Staff NB in both PvP and PvE.
Melee NB have way to little control do actually do in melee what their supposed to do, burst players down.
Low CC, little ways to hinder enemies from healing or get away, and very little ways to avoid enemy CC and dmg.2 -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭Just a two quality of life suggestions for the game.
Re: Improved Guild Store Functionality- Change it so when you select a sub category such as "Raw Material", the Guild Store remembers your choice and does does not reset your sub category to "Motif" or something else when you change the Main Category such as "Woodworking" or "Blacksmithing" or "Clothing."
- Change it so when you select a Stack Size such as "5" or "10" or "20" the next time you split that same item, it remembers the last Stack Size you selected. Whenever I'm selling food, I always have to manually change the stack size every time I break a stack, because it always defaults to Half the stack selected.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)1 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭100%, not much extra dmg. Also costs 400+ magicka, and doesnt work if enemy are using magelight, or any kind of dot, or aoe, or you use dot.
Crystal shard can hit for 1400dmg+, instaproc for another 1000dmg.
2400dmg in about 2 seconds.
Then mages wrath for 1200dmg + 1000dmg explode.
You can kill someone in about 2,5 seconds as a sorc.
Also try using overload and spam normal attacks, then evey hit will do 1000dmg, from range.
Could you please explain how you reach 1400dmg+ with crystal shard in PVP?
Also, I'm afraid your numbers on Mages Wrath are COMPLETELY WRONG.
Please stop spreading idiotic analysis of classes you haven't even tried.Wololo.1 -
Selodaoc✭✭✭Ask a higher ranked Sorc, Ive been hit with it many times.
The skills used and damage are shown in death recap.Edited by Selodaoc on 4 August 2014 00:460 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭100%, not much extra dmg. Also costs 400+ magicka, and doesnt work if enemy are using magelight, or any kind of dot, or aoe, or you use dot.
Crystal shard can hit for 1400dmg+, instaproc for another 1000dmg.
2400dmg in about 2 seconds.
Then mages wrath for 1200dmg + 1000dmg explode.
You can kill someone in about 2,5 seconds as a sorc.
Also try using overload and spam normal attacks, then evey hit will do 1000dmg, from range.
Could you please explain how you reach 1400dmg+ with crystal shard in PVP?
Also, I'm afraid your numbers on Mages Wrath are COMPLETELY WRONG.
Please stop spreading idiotic analysis of classes you haven't even tried.
I agree I haven't come close to hitting 1400 dmg in one hit with Crystal Frag in pvp (in pve I have gotten a 1358 crit but that was with precast self buffs) and I'm VR12 and thats with resto staff and 3 jewelry with 13+ spell power also tried with spell dmg & crit pots.
Furthermore saying a sorc can kill in 2 secs or less with crystal frag is untrue even if the sorc got two procs in a row because each proc is a 1 sec global cooldown even tho it's an instant cast the most dmg u are going to see in that 2 secs is about 2k and thats *IF* both CF crit. I think the most I've seen a crit for from my CF and watching other sorc on live streams was about 1-1.2k.
We also don't have the crazy OP crit chance options that NB's have so stacking crit for a sorc in pvp is just about useless since most players with half a brain know to stack impenetrable on their gear.
Edited by heyguyslol on 4 August 2014 05:21@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19751