Bow needs a spam skill

MorHawk

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

You lack the ability to create or understand how ESO builds work

Because you are totally unable to grasp how ESO works.

Heh, brilliant. Come back to the conversation when you can actually present opinions like a grown-up instead of mud-slinging.

Kego

But he is right. You are comparing skills that can not replace or even compared each other, like Vampires Bane that does lousy DMG with a Stamina Build where you run at best around 1.500-1.600 Magicka or Silver Bolts that does lousy DMG compared to Venom Arrow in an heavy Stamina Build, cause it scales of SpellDMG what you will never ever enchant to your Armor or Jewely.

MorHawk

Kego wrote: »

But he is right. You are comparing skills that can not replace or even compared each other, like Vampires Bane that does lousy DMG with a Stamina Build where you run at best around 1.500-1.600 Magicka or Silver Bolts that does lousy DMG compared to Venom Arrow in an heavy Stamina Build, cause it scales of SpellDMG what you will never ever enchant to your Armor or Jewely.

Thank you. See pooch, this is how a conversation works.

Okay, I struggled a bit with your wording there, but it sounds like you're going back to the point, again, that Venom Arrow scales off weapon damage, so is better on a high-stamina build. And again, I totally get that. What I'm saying is that those who are running a high-magicka build would in turn get better damage with their attacks, so it's a moot point. Hence, with the attacks themselves not being homogeneous, there is an imbalance. This is part of why sticks and skirts are so popular, yes?

Thejollygreenone

So, all of this prior discussion aside that doesn't quite involve me, I've been using magnum shot/draining shot as a spam skill for my bow build in pve and it's providing some decent dps, coupled with a few dots and buffs. I initially wanted to use magnum shot, was trying it for a few months since I already used it for pvp, but found the self knockback too troublesome in a trial environment for it to be a solid option.

However I find that switching the morphs to draining shot, at the expense of the extra base damage, serves as a great spam skill. In a gear setup built for stamina/weapon damage, my light attacks and draining shots are hitting for similar damage, ranging between 400-600 crits, and since they're going off simultaneously that's ~700-900 dps alone.

What's more, since most trial groups have a stack-up-and-heal-through-it method of killing bosses, forcing you to be closer to the enemy than a bow-wielder would want with longshots, draining shot is perfect, since you'll be in range anyway. I use the Dominion/Pact/Covenant bow 3 set to increase the range of it to 13m instead of 10m (big whoop, right? but it makes a difference in damage and availability).

The only problem I have with scatter shot and morphs as a spam skill is that stamina builds still doesn't have any good active stamina generation, so a build like this runs out of stamina after around 20-25 seconds. The damage output seems to be there though, it's just a matter of being able to sustain it.

I'm holding out for spellcrafting and the spell to convert magicka to stamina, I guess But regardless, scatter shot looks like the best spam skill bow is gunna get if not using venom arrow (which I don't, I go for poison injection). Just thought I'd put my two cents into the threads subject.

EDIT: On a side note, if ZoS just gave bow users that damn morag tong increase poison damage set instead of it only being usable with daggers, lethal arrow would be worth the clunkiness of the ability to spam, just for the high hitting poison damage.

Kego

MorHawk wrote: »

Hence, with the attacks themselves not being homogeneous, there is an imbalance. This is part of why sticks and skirts are so popular, yes?

No, I don't think so. Sticks and skirts are populare cause they deal the highest sustained DPS but that results in a bad designed Restostaff that pushes the hole DPS about 10% if only class skills are used and the insane Magicka Regeneration that let you never run dry.
There are some Stamina Builds out there that can bring around 800-1.000 DPS in Trials but only under 60 seconds. After that you run out of Stamina and your DPS drops down to 500-700.

ZOS needs to change it asap, that Stamina gets the same possebilities of Stamina Regeneration or they have to completly nerf Magicka Regenration.

Honestly there is currently no Stamina Regenreation Skill in the hole Game but three for Magicka? What are the developer thinking?

• Spell Symetrie -> change HP into Magicka
• Elemental Drain -> Every hit with an Elemental Attack restores Magicka
• Siphon Spirit -> Gain Magicka per Hit

Srsly ZOS, where is our damn Stamina Regenration Skill? Why does such a Skill doesn't even exists? It seems you never ever wanted people to use a Weapon outside of Sicks.

CapuchinSeven

MorHawk wrote: »

Heh, brilliant. Come back to the conversation when you can actually present opinions like a grown-up instead of mud-slinging.

OH my gosh don't even start with that utter junk, your first replies to me before I'd even written a word to you were sarcastic, borderline inflammatory and, like it or not, show you're unable to understand ESO builds.

How about this, you come back to the conversation when you're able to build a proper build, THEN we can talk about changing a skill. Because, like it or not, you don't understand what you're complaining about and yet are asking for changes based on that.

If you think that's mud slinging then whatever.

Kego wrote: »

Sticks and skirts are populare cause they deal the highest sustained DPS

As Kego here says and as I've said a few posts back, the reason why people use light armour and a staff are because of the never ending supply of magic. I saw a number of replies follow that totally didn't understand why this is an issue and what a difference Resto's Siphon Spirit and light armour makes.

As Kego also states, there are stamina builds that can easily hit the 800 mark (my DW build hits that without really trying) and above, the issue isn't with damage the issue is with the insane magicka regeneration allowed by the game from light armour and a restro staff and the ability to sustain it. More damage on Venom Arrow isn't going to fix that.

If people can't grasp that, then like it or not, they are unable to make a decent build and really don't have any place calling for damage boosts. Again, take that as mud slinging if you want, it's a fundamental point to this topic, damage isn't the issue with stamina DPS, it's sustaining it.

MorHawk

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

How about this, you come back to the conversation when you're able to build a proper build, THEN we can talk about changing a skill. Because, like it or not, you don't understand what you're complaining about and yet are asking for changes based on that.

Then for the love of expletives, stop harping on about how uneducated I supposedly am and frigging ANSWER THE BLOODY QUESTION!

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

As Kego here says and as I've said a few posts back, the reason why people use light armour and a staff are because of the never ending supply of magic. I saw a number of replies follow that totally didn't understand why this is an issue and what a difference Resto's Siphon Spirit and light armour makes.

As Kego also states, there are stamina builds that can easily hit the 800 mark (my DW build hits that without really trying) and above, the issue isn't with damage the issue is with the insane magicka regeneration allowed by the game from light armour and a restro staff and the ability to sustain it. More damage on Venom Arrow isn't going to fix that.

At long last. Okay, totally agreed. It's long been established that light armour is stupid OP for both attack and defense, and that needs balancing before anything else gets touched. Also, in addition to resto staff's siphonage and the Absorb block passive, it's crazy that with the damage buff, resto staff is in most cases more appealing for DPS than destro.

So yeah. Absolutely no argument that magicka builds are more sustainable than stamina ones. That needs fixing. That however doesn't change the skill discrepancy. You would absolutely address a stab wound to your belly first, but why would the comparative severity of that injury induce you to ignore your sliced-open hand?

And I swear. You try the "you just don't understand" line instead of actually presenting a rebuttal one more time and I'm out here.

Jaxom

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Heh, brilliant. Come back to the conversation when you can actually present opinions like a grown-up instead of mud-slinging.

OH my gosh don't even start with that utter junk, your first replies to me before I'd even written a word to you were sarcastic, borderline inflammatory and, like it or not, show you're unable to understand ESO builds.

How about this, you come back to the conversation when you're able to build a proper build, THEN we can talk about changing a skill. Because, like it or not, you don't understand what you're complaining about and yet are asking for changes based on that.

If you think that's mud slinging then whatever.

Kego wrote: »

Sticks and skirts are populare cause they deal the highest sustained DPS

As Kego here says and as I've said a few posts back, the reason why people use light armour and a staff are because of the never ending supply of magic. I saw a number of replies follow that totally didn't understand why this is an issue and what a difference Resto's Siphon Spirit and light armour makes.

As Kego also states, there are stamina builds that can easily hit the 800 mark (my DW build hits that without really trying) and above, the issue isn't with damage the issue is with the insane magicka regeneration allowed by the game from light armour and a restro staff and the ability to sustain it. More damage on Venom Arrow isn't going to fix that.

If people can't grasp that, then like it or not, they are unable to make a decent build and really don't have any place calling for damage boosts. Again, take that as mud slinging if you want, it's a fundamental point to this topic, damage isn't the issue with stamina DPS, it's sustaining it.

I agree. I bold-ed the main point. The damage isn't bad. Like Capuchin, I'm able to deal high spike damage and maintain enough dps for a good 45-60s before it tappers off. As most nights go, I was sitting in Queue for PvP, and messing around with skills. Ambush -> Flurry will kill pretty much any PvE mob that isnt a boss without the need to do any other attacks. Ambush -> Flurry -> LA -> Flurry ->> ad nauseum while keeping up a couple DoTs (pick your poison, doesn't really matter which ones for this conversation) can sustain 700-800 dps for a good 60s.

The problem is once we are out of stamina, our dps goes into the tanker. The one defining skill that allowed my NB to pull 1.1k-1.2k dps in trials was Spell Symmetry. I know they mentioned a Magicka -> Stamina skill for Spell Crafting. I'm not sure how much this will help us tbh. My magicka pool is 1500 ish so if it follows the same formula (600 ish grants you 300 ish), I could only use it twice before I was out of Magicka with only tri pots to keep my magicka pool up. What we really need is a Health -> Stamina skill and our problems would be basically solved. In Trials, why Spell Symmetry is so effective is because you can basically ignore the no self heal mechanic due to Healing Springs spam. Give stamina based skills that, and we are viable. Potential is there, we are just missing that one piece.