Do you believe Emperor farming/trading has a place in AvA?

Imperator_Clydus

Greetings and salutations members of the Elder Scrolls Online community,

While this may be an issue I was aware would happen even before the game released, more and more are recognizing some of the underlining issues of AvA and how certain groups are exploiting and abusing mechanics to their advantage.

There are many signs to recognize when certain groups are engaging in this kind of behavior. Whether they are "drawing heat" or defending an objective with no strategic importance or value. Whether they capture a scroll that they then do not return, but rather hold for the duration of its time before reset.

You can also recognize peculiar behavior when certain members have triple the amount of AP on the leaderboard in comparison to the rest of their alliance or the other alliances. It becomes abundantly clear once these players are crowned emperor, that they abdicate to give the guy below them a clear shot or wait to leave the campaign after they are deposed.

Some may argue "well they took the time and killed enough players, it's their right to be emperor and pass it to their buddies." While I understand and in some regard agree that many should have a shot at being the emperor, this is not the way to do it.

I have another thread which deals with ways ZOS can make the emperorship more flexible, honorable, and useful in AvA: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106988/making-the-emperor-more-meaningful-and-relevant-to-ava#latest. Term limits, making the emperor's perks group-oriented, and changing how AP is accumulated are just a few suggestions.

With the arrival of 5-7 day campaigns, however, the bad behavior will likely be encouraged, rather than discouraged. We have already seen AvA abuses at their worst on Celarus. The new campaigns will be even more abused, and lead to an experience that doesn't remotely resemble AvA.

I made this thread because this is a question that needs to be posed to the community. Do you approve of this behavior? Do you believe it's fair? Do you believe this is how ZOS envisioned AvA? Your options below are clear. You either agree that emperor farming/trading has a place and is a valid play style, or you disagree.

This is a very important question that needs to be answered as this could very well have a profound impact on the future of not only Cyrodiil, but ESO as a whole. The more who contribute to this poll, the more we will know and be able to understand what people actually want and expect from Cyrodiil. Post your opinions and I look forward to your comments.

Regards,

Imperator Clydus

Jaxom

No.

To answer the 3 questions you posed in the Original Post, No, No, and No.

Honfold

No.

Nope, it cheapens the spirit of pvp.

Vis

No.

No, it has promoted the use of underhanded methods and dishonest co-op, thus hurting all pvp.

Remove the former passives.

SwampRaider

No.

I disagree with emperor farming(as in 2 factions working together to crown each other).
BUT i do agree that Emperors can abdicate themselves if they so choose, so their friends can get emperor.(AS LONG AS THEY DEFEND THOSE INNER KEEPS TO THE LAST LOGGED IN MAN)

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Vis wrote: »

No, it has promoted the use of underhanded methods and dishonest co-op, thus hurting all pvp.

Remove the former passives.

Former emperor passives are actually one of the main catalysts for why so many are definitely farming the emperorship. I agree that their removal would highly discourage players from participating in this manner. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

SwampRaider wrote: »

I disagree with emperor farming(as in 2 factions working together to crown each other).
BUT i do agree that Emperors can abdicate themselves if they so choose, so their friends can get emperor.(AS LONG AS THEY DEFEND THOSE INNER KEEPS TO THE LAST LOGGED IN MAN)

Emperor farming doesn't even need to necessarily be two factions crowning each other. On Auriel's Bow currently, the only faction participating in emperor farming is DC. The AD hasn't abdicated the throne once, yet DC has seen 10 or so emperors abdicate or leave once deposed. All that is necessary is that opposing factions have enough force to reclaim the imperial keeps.

We'll have to agree to disagree in regards to intentionally abdicating for friends to get the emperorship. I would much rather term limits be enacted to give others a shot at the emperorship instead of a player hoarding it or trading it. The emperorship isn't a commodity that should be passed around to the highest bidder. It's a status that is supposed to mean something, and has become meaningless due to the high circulation of it and entire guilds getting the passives for themselves.

Citidel

No.

The Spirit of PVP is not "Lets get passives and emp titles for people so we have an edge" and more "Lets PVP and see how long we can keep an Emperor, If he loses it we'll try with the next guy." Raising a Call to Arms and defending an Emperor is much more rewarding then "guesting" in Wabbajack or wherever to roll some other groups. Having people plot, plan and dethrone you is what its about, not "LAWL I'm Emperor, lets go PVP somewhere else."

What's the point? Passives that people have been screaming for their removal (kinda a meh point for me)? A title that's worth about as much as any pvp rank? Maybe even less...

Not actively defending your empire is like buying icecream and setting it outside while you play soccer (football) in the summer. You KNOW whats going to happen to it, but you wanted to play soccer so much more. We get it, you wanted the titles/passives for people and the easiest way to get it is faceroll a campaign when it flips, get there then "guest away," "log off" or "go PVE." Choosing not to defend is asinine and completely ruins the spirit of PVP.

galiumb16_ESO

They just need to make those passives a different tree that everyone can work towards through AvA achievements that does not involve being emperor. Keeps them in the game, removes the temptation to be stupid.

Attorneyatlawl

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

They just need to make those passives a different tree that everyone can work towards through AvA achievements that does not involve being emperor. Keeps them in the game, removes the temptation to be stupid.

Also removes the competitive aspect and dumbs down the game. We really don't need more of that...

Cody

No.

i think its pathetic. iv read the buffs from the former emp titles, and they are not that good honestly. iv fought former emps, and they were not different at all from a regular max lvl player. but im not an expert psychologist, so i cant understand those peoples way of thinking. just remove BOTH former emperor/emperor buffs, and you solve half the problem already, as most people do it solely for the emperor/ former emp buffs. it MAY also lessen the issue of people power grinding with exploits and all that nonsense to max lvl in just 3-5 days, again, im no expert on the way people think, but if people REALLY care that much about tiny buffs from former emperor, then they obviously want to be max lvl when they get it, so they can be even more "good" at the game.

indytims_ESO

No.

1- The Emperor should not be able to 'abdicate' or be handed off more than once a month.

2- Former Emperors should have their buffs -severely- neutered, if not completely removed. Seriously. "There Can Be Only ONE!" should be the mantra when it comes to Emperorhood. Having a bunch of people running around with the same buffs makes the position kinda pointless, really.

The current Emperor system is incredibly lame, and I dare say it's not 'working as intended'. I can not for the life of me imagine Zeni sitting around during beta gleefully smiling about how guilds and groups of players would be passing around the Emperor title like a cheap ***.

Just my 2 gold pieces, tho.

Anomaly 2

Yes.

Removing former/ emperor buffs is a horrible idea. Its also not going to happen. Zenni wont do it. People need to stop suggesting it. Also if they don't make a person that much stronger then what is the big deal? Let me give you all a heads up. Once the new campaigns come out emperor trading/ farming isn't going to be possible, or it will be really hard to do. Their will be far less campaigns, therefore more people per campaign. Which means its not going to be as easy to climb those leadeboards and to flip/take keeps.This also has been happening since day one, as to why its gotten such a big hype I do not know. AD is infamous for their former emp pulsar spamming groups. It was happening on every faction on a lot of the campaigns. I didn't see any forums about it then... or maybe I just missed them. Point is this is going to happen until the next major patch when the new campaigns come out. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Stop whining. It does nothing. Oh btw im part of the EP group that "emp farmed" the *** out of vol. We got over 50 emps crowned. You know why that was possible? Because of everyone on these forums. You brought attention to the fact of what was going on there and then it brought more people to the server to retake keeps for us. So yeah thanks. My former emp buffs are all thanks to you . Even the groups that came in to try and stop us ended up either quitting the server or helping us in the end any ways. Also emp farming is not whats ruining pvp in this game. Zennimax has been doing that all on their own. At least we can pvp again at a normal fps. Now begin all your butthurt rage. I'll be sure to check it out later lol..

Oh One last note, a lot of those people making forums complaining of emp farming were emp farming themselves to but whined after that got their emp buffs because they didn't want anyone else to have it. They were their leaving keep walls down. Flipping keeps for us. I recognize a lot of names on these forums. Pretending to be the eso saints.

Sapphy24

No.

It needs to be stopped and stopped now or pvpers will go elsewhere.

Cody

No.

Anomaly 2 wrote: »

Removing former/ emperor buffs is a horrible idea. Its also not going to happen. Zenni wont do it. People need to stop suggesting it. Also if they don't make a person that much stronger then what is the big deal? Let me give you all a heads up. Once the new campaigns come out emperor trading/ farming isn't going to be possible, or it will be really hard to do. Their will be far less campaigns, therefore more people per campaign. Which means its not going to be as easy to climb those leadeboards and to flip/take keeps.This also has been happening since day one, as to why its gotten such a big hype I do not know. AD is infamous for their former emp pulsar spamming groups. It was happening on every faction on a lot of the campaigns. I didn't see any forums about it then... or maybe I just missed them. Point is this is going to happen until the next major patch when the new campaigns come out. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Stop whining. It does nothing. Oh btw im part of the EP group that "emp farmed" the *** out of vol. We got over 50 emps crowned. You know why that was possible? Because of everyone on these forums. You brought attention to the fact of what was going on there and then it brought more people to the server to retake keeps for us. So yeah thanks. My former emp buffs are all thanks to you . Even the groups that came in to try and stop us ended up either quitting the server or helping us in the end any ways. Also emp farming is not whats ruining pvp in this game. Zennimax has been doing that all on their own. At least we can pvp again at a normal fps. Now begin all your butthurt rage. I'll be sure to check it out later lol..

Oh One last note, a lot of those people making forums complaining of emp farming were emp farming themselves to but whined after that got their emp buffs because they didn't want anyone else to have it. They were their leaving keep walls up. Flipping keeps for us. I recognize a lot of names on these forums. Pretending to be the eso saints.

not going to argue with you, but you cant really be blaming people on the forums for you going to a campaign and emperor farming? you have the choice to not do it, or do it. and you chose to do it. again, not going to call out your entire post, a lot of it does make sense, but you cant blame us for something you could have refused to do.:/

Gwarok

No.

Definitely NO to all 3 of the OP's posted question(s).

#AvA-Rules-REVAMP!

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Anomaly 2 wrote: »

Removing former/ emperor buffs is a horrible idea. Its also not going to happen. Zenni wont do it. People need to stop suggesting it. Also if they don't make a person that much stronger then what is the big deal? Let me give you all a heads up. Once the new campaigns come out emperor trading/ farming isn't going to be possible, or it will be really hard to do. Their will be far less campaigns, therefore more people per campaign. Which means its not going to be as easy to climb those leadeboards and to flip/take keeps.This also has been happening since day one, as to why its gotten such a big hype I do not know. AD is infamous for their former emp pulsar spamming groups. It was happening on every faction on a lot of the campaigns. I didn't see any forums about it then... or maybe I just missed them. Point is this is going to happen until the next major patch when the new campaigns come out. There is nothing anyone can do about it. Stop whining. It does nothing. Oh btw im part of the EP group that "emp farmed" the *** out of vol. We got over 50 emps crowned. You know why that was possible? Because of everyone on these forums. You brought attention to the fact of what was going on there and then it brought more people to the server to retake keeps for us. So yeah thanks. My former emp buffs are all thanks to you . Even the groups that came in to try and stop us ended up either quitting the server or helping us in the end any ways. Also emp farming is not whats ruining pvp in this game. Zennimax has been doing that all on their own. At least we can pvp again at a normal fps. Now begin all your butthurt rage. I'll be sure to check it out later lol..

Oh One last note, a lot of those people making forums complaining of emp farming were emp farming themselves to but whined after that got their emp buffs because they didn't want anyone else to have it. They were their leaving keep walls up. Flipping keeps for us. I recognize a lot of names on these forums. Pretending to be the eso saints.

This isn't entirely accurate. Lets compare the former emperor passives to pulsar, just as an example. One pulsar is not that big of a deal and doesn't elicit very much damage. When you stack pulsar with ten others or so, however, then you have an entirely different kind of beast. The same applies with having entire groups filled with former emperors. The passives, in particular the ultimate reduction, makes a huge difference.

You are either extremely naive or blind to the catastrophe that is clearly heading this way. Celarus is a major indicator of the kinds of behavior that will happen on the 5-7 day campaigns. If ZeniMax does not change the fundamentals of how the emperorship works and how AP is accumulated, people will have farm groups ready to go.

With more players on a campaign for each alliance means more AP gains. DC players on Auriel's Bow, which is a lopsided and half-dead campaign, were able to accumulate one million AP two days after the reset. Dedicated AP farming groups will be able to do the same, even with shorter campaign cycles. What will be even worse is because campaigns reset more often, more bad behavior will likely be encouraged as many will find this as an opportunity to farm the emperorship.

Perhaps you don't know how forums work, but the entire point of "whining" and "complaining" is to voice concerns about a feature that clearly is being abused. You may approve of emperor farming/trading as you are proud to admit you did it yourself, but as it currently stands, you are in the minority. If ZOS is smart, they will listen to the large base of their community, as there is more money in doing so. Otherwise, they could potentially be left with a game where only you, the minority, is left. That isn't enough to sustain a AAA P2P MMORPG.

The more attention this issue generates, the better. I'm glad 50+ EP players were crowned emperor on your campaign because it merely shows how extreme and severe the issue is. If it was only a moderate problem, then ZOS would have little incentive to resolve it. However, if it becomes rampant and widespread on every single campaign, then that is grounds to compel ZOS to actually do something.

Do not fool yourself. Emperor farming is definitely one of the catalysts for destroying AvA. The reasons so many campaigns are lopsided or dead has little to do with ZOS and more to do with the player base. Players don't want competition. Players want to farm the emperorship. Players want to guest/transfer to wherever the action is. If players didn't have nearly the amount of choice and freedom they currently have and players were forced to stick to a campaign, things wouldn't be as severe. ZOS' only fault is their slow response and inability to address PvP in a more effective manner.

I can only speak for myself. I was the first DC emperor on Bloodthorn. I was constantly running large PuG parties, coordinating with other groups, and focusing on taking keeps and securing objectives. Our campaign was dominated by EP the first two weeks, but once we had an influx of DC guilds I was crowned due to being at the top of the leaderboard.

I have a feeling most emperors or former emperors aren't legitimate, but it really doesn't matter which one you are. What I want is AvA to matter, and the emperor farming/trading groups are undermining the experience and taking away from what should actually matter, the Alliance War. I think we can all agree that quality AvA is what we all want, and that should be the focus on ZOS' PvP strategy.

Anomaly 2

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Anomaly 2 wrote: »

Do not fool yourself. Emperor farming is definitely one of the catalysts for destroying AvA. The reasons so many campaigns are lopsided or dead has little to do with ZOS and more to do with the player base. Players don't want competition. Players want to farm the emperorship. Players want to guest/transfer to wherever the action is. If players didn't have nearly the amount of choice and freedom they currently have and players were forced to stick to a campaign, things wouldn't be as severe. ZOS' only fault is their slow response and inability to address PvP in a more effective manner.

I'm sorry to hear my group ruined your pvp experience. I can understand how important winning the campaign and getting your welfare cheque of 42k gold must really make you feel good and accomplished. Really brings out that competitive spirit in everyone. I'll tell you what, this where it goes back to for a lot of us. The countless time we spent trying to win wabbajack and what did we get for it? Lol, its a joke. Once they fix pvp then i will go back to taking it seriously. For now I'm sticking with my emp group and having fun trolling some servers.

SBR_QuorTek

No.

Honestly with something so tiny little that will grant an upper hand that basically only would be available for a handfull of people, with a growing population, would say yes.. remove former emperor buff... am more into the thing that there can be only one with a slight extra upper hand and that is the emperor himself.

Tintinabula

No.

Ya know..during beta/alpha on PTS Emperor meant "something"..now it means something totally different . (nothing)

apostate9

Yes.

Anomaly 2 wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Anomaly 2 wrote: »

Do not fool yourself. Emperor farming is definitely one of the catalysts for destroying AvA. The reasons so many campaigns are lopsided or dead has little to do with ZOS and more to do with the player base. Players don't want competition. Players want to farm the emperorship. Players want to guest/transfer to wherever the action is. If players didn't have nearly the amount of choice and freedom they currently have and players were forced to stick to a campaign, things wouldn't be as severe. ZOS' only fault is their slow response and inability to address PvP in a more effective manner.

I'm sorry to hear my group ruined your pvp experience. I can understand how important winning the campaign and getting your welfare cheque of 42k gold must really make you feel good and accomplished. Really brings out that competitive spirit in everyone. I'll tell you what, this where it goes back to for a lot of us. The countless time we spent trying to win wabbajack and what did we get for it? Lol, its a joke. Once they fix pvp then i will go back to taking it seriously. For now I'm sticking with my emp group and having fun trolling some servers.

Care to comment, your Holiness?

apostate9

Yes.

Really, "Emperor Clydus", I'm dying to hear how you plan to walk this one back.

andrewalexanderkingb14_ESO

No.

Emperor farmers are the ruin of AvA in ESO. There should be a total united effort, on every server, cross faction, in order to identify, target, scrutinize, call out, and ridicule players who actively take part in it, players in guild who take part in it, hell, even players who might even simply be in the guild who are not even doing it themselves, in order for them to leave such guilds. It's time we as a playerbase stop bitching about it, and start being about it.

and for GOD SAKES. we have a player here who ACTIVLEY ADMITS THAT HE AND HIS GUILD ARE EMPEROR FARMERS. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU DEVS?! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Tintinabula

No.

We do on Wabba in our faction. If you didn't make Emperor on our campaign and you're the least bit vocal calling out commands(and you have the balls to wear the tag ) etc..you're scrutinized

nukeyoo

No.

There is a word for people that preach disapproval of behavior that they themselves took/take part in... One word... two parts.. Can anyone guess it!? I'll give hints...

Former emp buffs should be reworked or removed...

Anomaly 2 wrote:

they don't make the person that much stronger

Then they won't be missed.

Gloran

Yes.

Envy, Resentment and Lack of Knowledge.
It's the origin of this "issue" and the source that will fuel it.

Tintinabula

No.

Look. Emperor has always been or meant to have been the "best of the best". The person who put the most time in.

NOT the best diplomat who kissed the right factions _____ so they could trade keeps.

We have a problem with entire guilds going to "easy" campaigns and getting emp in a week and trading off and then USING their former emp buffs (everyone in the guild) to become these monstrous gank/ oil pot farming squads from Hades.

If that's what the Devs had in mind when they thought up Emp..Then please forgive me and yall can get back to your fail tactics.

Anomaly 2

Yes.

andrewalexanderkingb14_ESO wrote: »

Emperor farmers are the ruin of AvA in ESO. There should be a total united effort, on every server, cross faction, in order to identify, target, scrutinize, call out, and ridicule players who actively take part in it, players in guild who take part in it, hell, even players who might even simply be in the guild who are not even doing it themselves, in order for them to leave such guilds. It's time we as a playerbase stop bitching about it, and start being about it.

and for GOD SAKES. we have a player here who ACTIVLEY ADMITS THAT HE AND HIS GUILD ARE EMPEROR FARMERS. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU DEVS?! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

They are doing something about it. But they need to change entirely the way PvP is. I placed among the top on wabba and I got the same amount as people 200+below in rank. While were on that too alliance points isn't even the best way to determine who really contributes to the campaign. Also they aren't going to actively strike out at a person who admits to it because its not exploiting. Its not as if I'm an AD or DC DK alt pulling EP on to keeps to screw a faction over. All I do is take a keep and leave. The other factions do the rest. While our position was we didn't care what anyone else did on that server was, but as soon as we could get emp we would go for it. I cant see why that is so wrong, to abdicate emp and give another person a chance at having it?

@nukeyoo no it wont be missed. I've started another character who will become my main in the future, and he wont have emp buffs. But once again it does not make sense for zenni to remove it. And that is my problem with a lot of this is there are so many hypocrites who went and did it and cried after who flat out whisper us that they just didn't want anyone else to have it, then they took to the forums and a huge band wagon started. At least I'm straight up with it and defending my position. Right or wrong in other players eyes. We all want to see a rework of cyrodiil, the reward system should be one thing that should be fixed. If I had a reason to keep in first place. I wouldn't give it up. If I had a reason to win the campaign, I wouldn't ever let another faction touch any of my keeps; the way I played in the first campaign. But now it doesn't mater. Home on an empty server you control and takes no work. Guest onto the server where all the action is/ go do duels with other faction players is a big way I do a lot of PvP now too.

Gloran wrote: »

Envy, Resentment and Lack of Knowledge.
It's the origin of this "issue" and the source that will fuel it.

That is exactly it.

Tintinabula wrote: »

Look. Emperor has always been or meant to have been the "best of the best". The person who put the most time in.

NOT the best diplomat who kissed the right factions _____ so they could trade keeps.

We have a problem with entire guilds going to "easy" campaigns and getting emp in a week and trading off and then USING their former emp buffs (everyone in the guild) to become these monstrous gank/ oil pot farming squads from Hades.

If that's what the Devs had in mind when they thought up Emp..Then please forgive me and yall can get back to your fail tactics.

I agree but the people who get emperor buffs were the ones who would take a resource in wabba and hold the tower and oil the countless scrubs who ran in there. Because they never shoot the damn tower down. Hardly the best of the best and for sure not contributing to their alliance. Also former emp buffs dont increase siege damage to players only to walls and to other siege. Also entire guilds left wabba because whats the point. The game isn't balanced. There are still so many issues with it. Oh and the rewards might as well be every zenni employ bending us over and having a turn. Wabba use to be maxed out all the time. As soon as that campaign ended most of the big guilds on every faction either unsubbed or went to mess around on an empty server because the reward will be the same. I sound like a broken record but I want to get my point across of what truly lays at the heart of the problem and why PvP is dieing in eso. Emperor farming is just the result of the decisions zenni has made,

DCGoth_OTG

No.

Gloran wrote: »

Envy, Resentment and Lack of Knowledge.
It's the origin of this "issue" and the source that will fuel it.

I am not certain what fuels your incorrect belief that people do not want emperor farming due to envy or lack of knowledge. That is just not the case.

I do not want emperor farming, as it ruins the credibility of the game, much in the same way that gold farming and botting does.

My opinion is not based upon envy or anything else of a selfish nature. Your emperor status means absolutely nothing to me and has zero impact on my personal game play. I have absolutely nothing to gain or lose based upon this activity. I have never been in Cyrodiil. I will never enter Cyrodiil. I receive no buffs from anywhere and I have no campaigns, so I am completely unbiased; however, exploiting game mechanics in order to maintain an unfair advantage over other players who do PvP is just as bad as exploiting the games economy by buying and selling gold. It is simply wrong.

**I try to stay up to date in Alliance Wars threads, as my guild has a number of PvP'ers and, as guild leader, it is my responsibility to make informed decisions based upon what is happening in PvP. Since I do not PvP myself, this is my way of learning what is happening with issues related to PvP. (My Home and Guest campaigns to this day are 'Unassigned.')

Dleatherus

No.

Gloran wrote: »

Envy, Resentment and Lack of Knowledge.
It's the origin of this "issue" and the source that will fuel it.

far from it

as somebody who has not one but two seperate toons that are former emperor I could hardly be accused of envy or resentment

as for lack of knowledge - i know, see and experience what emperor farming is doing to cyrodiil and those that play there

I would gladly lose 'former emperor' and buffs on my toons to stop this large scale farce that is happening right now

D.

Armitas

No.

Gloran wrote: »

Envy, Resentment and Lack of Knowledge.
It's the origin of this "issue" and the source that will fuel it.

Ah, you voted yes. Good to know where Alacrity stands on the issue. Contrary to the "zero tolerance" policy that you claim to maintain it appears that there are some exploits that you can tolerate.