AD is the only consistent presence in PvP and the imbalance is further aiding in killing PvP (NA)

rgjutroub17_ESO

Permafrost wrote: »

Truthfully, you can't judge balance right now. To do so is to be grossly misguided. The majority of my guild refuses to log in until FPS issues are fixed because Cyrodil is a slide-show and a joke at the moment. I love ESO, but I cannot blame them.

I'm sure any other remotely competitive individuals and guilds feel the same way. My guess is that anywhere from 30-40% of extremely active PvPers are simply not playing the game. The lack of progress after the "hot fix" was especially disheartening. Yes, I know they are working on it and I am sure it is their top priority receiving the most concerted of efforts to repair.

Anyone who has seen the rise and fall of MMOs over the past decade knows that this is probably the make or break week for ESO. If we're still talking about this issue next Thursday, PvP in ESO will not survive. That's not hyperbole and it's not a fatalistic view. PvPers simply don't stand for issues like this. Frankly, I'm shocked so many of us have grit our teeth through everything thus far. It just goes to show the immense potential (a huge chunk already lost) of this game.

This is exactly right. Since the FPS issue, I haven't logged into PVP as I'm waiting for the fix like a lot of others. It's actually a perfect time to go out and level my characters, which based on the amount of people I've seen out in the PVE world, a lot of other regular PVPers are doing as well.

The other reason why I'm kind of waiting is because of the upcoming campaign changes. They've already said they are going to cut these campaigns short, so it's a little anti-climatic to get heavily involved in this new campaign when it can end abruptly with short warning. They should have just launched the new campaign structure during this last patch.

Pancake-Tragedy

-deleted-

OrangeTheCat

OP, are you here on these forums with this just to vent and whine or do you actually expect people to somehow help you? The AD have at their disposal exactly the same tools your team has. If AD is taking the map at night when there is a low population, as you say, then what is stopping your team from doing the same? Or are you suggesting ZOS turn off the servers at night (whose night?)?

Renuo

I personally love being on the side that's a little under-populated, but when I play (which is likely the most off-peak time) I wish there were more players. On the DC side of things I pretty much see the same very few people all the time!

Population has definitely been smashed on my timezone since this FPS issue started. This really had to be a priority but doesn't seem to have been treated as such. You can't have huge chunks of your subscribers struggling to play the game properly, especially when they could play just fine a couple weeks ago.

Etharian

this is ALL DUE TO EMPEROR FARMING. DC HAS SPREAD OUT BETWEEN ALL THE SERVERS WITH EBONHEART TO EMP FARM. Emperor needs to be taken out or nerfed severely.

Soloeus

I agree. But there are issues that really matter.

1. The 5% ultimate cost reduction matters a whole lot. Especially when there are 30 former emperors in a group.

2. The Population is not distributed equally in ESO. Everyone knows that AD has the most population by about tenfold. DC has a high population but nowhere near what AD does. Ebonheart has the smallest population.

3. AD because they have so many players of different time zones (Oceana) and are able to maintain a 24 hour active cycle have total domination of pretty much all campaigns. There are what, 3 campaigns they don't 100% own?

Then a person comes into PVP and sees that AD is at 55k points, DC is at 10k points and EP is at 3k points. Why would they be inspired to try? With the heavy cost of changing campaigns going up to 100k alliance points soon, I think PVP will see a mass exodus of players who don't like their campaign but can't change so they will quit PVP.

There is also the issue of way too many campaigns. Only 2 have respectable numbers at any time for DC or EP.

4. EP used to own Wabbajack and while DC came close to overtaking us a few times, AD didn't make much of a difference in that campaign other than trying to get payoffs for merc work. A lot of players who were in Wabba, including me, stopped PVP'ing because of different reasons. Mine are related to performance issues, and "grey areas" that give us vulnerabilities other factions don't have.

This does reveal that 3 way alliance warfare in a game where one faction has a population almost 2x of the other 2 factions won't work. Something needs done, and hopefully the new campaigns and other PVP changes will help out with these issues.

As for the singular issue of Population Equilibrium? There is absolutely nothing that ZOS is capable of doing to my knowledge that would change that.

Cody

well, I myself got tired of facing 90% Vr12s at VR3, and got tired of barley even damaging said Vr12s, so im not coming back till at least VR10:/ im sure the FPS problem has something to do with it. oh, and about wabba, iv HEARD that several AD groups went to farm emps on dead servers, then came to wabba with their buffs:/ idk if its true of course, but I have heard complaints about a lot of AD former emps on it. hurts me to say it, but im not surprised AD did it if they did:( most of the emp farmers and exploiters I know come from AD:( just wait till the FPS issue gets fixed, and people will come back.

bruceb14_ESO5

Amazed at the comments. Emperor, Former Emperor, what side is more effected by FPS. We ALL are affected! Those that play together and become Emperor are likely to still play together and do it well with or without buffs or title. Classifying winners as zergers or exploiters is also erroneous, I've seen it from different sides, some good players utilizing and some perhaps just working together. So much whining when we all would just like to play without FPS issues. On Dawnbreaker I do see balance and good play on all 3 sides, not zergy, doesn't seem to be cheating and sure hope it stays that way.

Soloeus

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

Amazed at the comments. Emperor, Former Emperor, what side is more effected by FPS. We ALL are affected! Those that play together and become Emperor are likely to still play together and do it well with or without buffs or title. Classifying winners as zergers or exploiters is also erroneous, I've seen it from different sides, some good players utilizing and some perhaps just working together. So much whining when we all would just like to play without FPS issues. On Dawnbreaker I do see balance and good play on all 3 sides, not zergy, doesn't seem to be cheating and sure hope it stays that way.

Then let them win without unfairly gaming the system to farm emperors which is an exploit. So much whining, are you one of the cheaters? I hope your server gets polluted next then when you come in and beg for the buff to be gone, we can all laugh at your for flip flopping.

MaximillianDiE

My guild would swap sides in a heartbeat for the competition - but there's no way any of us could stomach the pve grind to VR12 - least of all the loss of Emperor for some guildies.

Aeaeren

We (DC) logged into Wabba the other night and was running around with 50+fps and one fight later 2 FPS. At one point it was so horrid the slide show took 10 seconds to show the next slide. I have turned off Add-Ons, turned down the graphics, sacrificed a cat (not really but if it would help I might consider it) ect, but still no joy. It was so bad we had to stop and repair a tower so we could safety log out and relog. Back to 50+ FPS so we stepped out the door and BAM back to 2 FPS.

Sorry I love PvP and Wabba is where we WANT to fight but until they fix it I can't see us being there for very long periods.

dcincali

I lol at the Former Emp title as most are garbage players that it got handed to. When it gets removed they will still be pewp but will be at the disadvantage of not having the buffs while I care less about the title and wont be nerfed when "Former Emp" goes away. That is all. Carry on.

Laura

Xael wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I'm not here to bash AD, it's not there fault and I'm sure most of them would prefer real challenges. I want to make that perfectly clear.


Is the community on DC and EP just that small or do they just not care? Seems every night on Wabba we are doing decent and by the morning they have the entire map two bars on the campaign and pretty much no presence for DC or EP. People in my PvP guilds are just giving up in droves because they say they can't stay up all night and by the morning the map will be yellow and impossible to win no matter how good we do during the day.

It use to be during scheduled PvP times we would have 40+ people ready to rock, we would help give a decent fight and turn the tide on the map. Lately they just don't show up and when asked they say there is no point because there is no way to keep the map balanced at night and it feels like an impossible uphill battle.

yesterday ten people showed up

day before that five.


Is there ANY campaign that has a fair shot for all three? One that actually has a consistent presence at night and in the morning and if not what could ZoS possibly (if anything) do about this?

Do you think the campaign changes will help? I use to have a blast PvPing and it seems like this strange trend is disturbing. I even see quite a few people moving over to AD because of it. (though I don't know why, I don't see how that is fun either)


I know for a fact several EP pvp guilds completely quit after the last campaign and now its just a total *** show. It won't be fun for anyone if only one side is left.

At first I did not think you serious... but um... Wabba has been heavily dominated by non AD a lot. In fact a few days ago only 2-3 things were yellow and 2 of them are perma Yellow (East and West..) so I have no idea wtf you are whining about.

New PvP changes are on the way and posts like this truly confirm that people will whine about anything, even sh*t they don't even know about.
/mind blown

Guessing you are AD. Also guessing you didn't read my entire post.

Good thing most people in your faction aren't like you and they actually see the issue.

Laura

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

OP, are you here on these forums with this just to vent and whine or do you actually expect people to somehow help you? The AD have at their disposal exactly the same tools your team has. If AD is taking the map at night when there is a low population, as you say, then what is stopping your team from doing the same? Or are you suggesting ZOS turn off the servers at night (whose night?)?

No need to get defensive I was pointing out a problem. I know for you there is no issue, obviously. However don't sit here and pretend that there isn't an extreme balance issue.

I asked several questions that many people here have posted on (such as balanced campaigns) and honest curiosities. Do you guys think fewer campaigns and the campaign changes will fix this, maybe dynamic population locks. Thinking outside of the box.

The point was more toward the fact that it seems like EP and DC are dying which I thought, and apparently everyone else besides you and one other poster. was obvious.

I made it a very strong point that I wasn't bashing the AD. Snide remarks like yours help absolutely nobody in any situation.

At any rate you missed the point entirely (not surprising) but the point isn't that we want to roll over the AD when they aren't populated (not that we could anyway because... sort of the point of the thread) its that EP and DC don't seem populated enough to have a real presence at all times. The problem is with the EP and DC - you should seriously learn how to better your reading comprehension.

SwampRaider

Laura wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

OP, are you here on these forums with this just to vent and whine or do you actually expect people to somehow help you? The AD have at their disposal exactly the same tools your team has. If AD is taking the map at night when there is a low population, as you say, then what is stopping your team from doing the same? Or are you suggesting ZOS turn off the servers at night (whose night?)?

No need to get defensive I was pointing out a problem. I know for you there is no issue, obviously. However don't sit here and pretend that there isn't an extreme balance issue.

I asked several questions that many people here have posted on (such as balanced campaigns) and honest curiosities. Do you guys think fewer campaigns and the campaign changes will fix this, maybe dynamic population locks. Thinking outside of the box.

The point was more toward the fact that it seems like EP and DC are dying which I thought, and apparently everyone else besides you and one other poster. was obvious.

I made it a very strong point that I wasn't bashing the AD. Snide remarks like yours help absolutely nobody in any situation.

Ep crowned emp at 5am EST on Dawnbreaker today. perhaps time zone differences?

Nijjion

With the target caps we can't really compete against the bigger numbers... Need to get Zenimax to fix the bug of attacking only 6 people with AoEs.

Problem has always been too many campaigns also so if they can take it down to 3 max that would be good... So be it if you have to queue at least it would be more even.

I'm trying to find out why AD encourage the majority noob zerg players more than the others (just like Albion in DAoC)... maybe because AD seem the most normal? AD's story was the most advertised/shown from people playing before release... lots of things. In DAoC it was because Albion was like the human race... we all know they are normally the go to side in MMOs for the average player... Could be reason with AD population but ESO seems pretty even in race choices in a way.

Laura

gervaislairdrwb17_ESO wrote: »

My guild would swap sides in a heartbeat for the competition - but there's no way any of us could stomach the pve grind to VR12 - least of all the loss of Emperor for some guildies.

I agree. Re-rolling in this game is just out of the question. I tried leveling an alt and it was just too much.

Maybe some EXP bonuses for having a max level character would help.

Laura

Nijjion wrote: »

With the target caps we can't really compete against the bigger numbers... Need to get Zenimax to fix the bug of attacking only 6 people with AoEs.

^^

AkelDamascus

Even AD isn't as "consistent" as it once was. Sure, in some cases AD still fields a larger presence (not always), but their numbers aren't the reason for PvP diminishing as much as it has. EP and DC have shown immense resourcefulness in fielding and giving their opponents the occasional run for their money - despite the odds. The populations are plummeting across the board and the causes go much deeper than a simple faction overpopulation issue.

The stability for most coordinated PvP groups just doesn't exist in ESO's current state. The past couple weeks have forced many to try game file edits, relogging constantly to temporarily resolve FPS issues, run solo to alleviate phantom stress, and many others to just unsub.

Annnd no, it's not happening to everyone. So those of you somehow not negatively affected by these recent patches, I hope you enjoy the company of the few that remain able to play PvP, because the faultering populations you're seeing are gonna get worse before better if ZOS doesn't figure out and fix the issue in an emergent fashion.

Spawn

Now given the fact that I've played a 24 hour cycle during the latest reset and my guild has pretty much had alternating teams playing 24/7 up until the last day or so it leaves me in a good position to give you the state of play in terms of wabbajack and maybe a basic overview of total population.

AD do indeed have the highest oceanic population and from what I've seen high overall population game wise, given they had a combined 1 good starter island vs the 2 of the other factions a lot of player went this way.

However in terms of server balance atm its really only AB that is flooded overnight with them, being a Australian player my self that mainly plays on us times with my team i do notice both time zones.

In Terms of Wabbjack threw out the night on oceanic times both yellow and red will stay at 2 bars pretty evenly before dropping to 1 bar for a short period of time.

You will find that DC seem to have a few European based players that come in the mornings and DC has a big presents in the morning, AD and EP pop seem to step it slowly threw out the day along with dc, in the last few days however its mainly been EP that has lock for the longest amount of time, and they seem to apply the most pressure.

This being said atm it really means nothing due to the FPS bug several good teams just aren't playing, my Guild Alacrity is luck as our team is fueled by a lot of hardcore games and most of us running high end gaming pcs the fps bug had not being hitting as hard ( note that small patch the day after maint.. made things worse) that being said a lot of our key players still are having issues and many are just on the verge of quitting, we have been fielding average of 6-10 grp teams where if the fps bug wasn't happening it would probably more around 12-16 more often but that just is not going to happen.

Simple fact of the matter is the fps issue will make or break the game if its not fixed well servers are down that's probably it the game will lose to much to recover from.. if its not already there, its sad this is a great game but its the slow response to bugs that will kill the game and multiply bugs coming up with each new patch.


On a side note since it was mentioned in this thread former emperor buffs really are not a big deal, yes my guild has about 20+ emperors, no we didn't sit there and pay apart in that absolutely *** crap that's happening on celerus, took us 2 months to build that many crowning emperors threw hard work on multiply servers, you guys at BT know how hard it was when we crowned Fireshot.

Anyways point about former emp is you don't need them to crush enemies both blue and red have teams that have put up good fights and beaten us before, all these idiots out there farming former emps thinking it makes them Goldy is just silly and its a illusion given that early in the game a lot of really good players got former emp and its there skills that make em good not some title, which i don't wear anymore since its so tarnished.

Anyways hopefully they will fix the fps bugs, and all this emperor trading btw should be fixed by them consolidating the servers, hopefully when they do that they understand how stupid 5-7 servers are and go for 30day servers.

Anyways that's my wall of text that's probably way to long and no one will read

Agrippa_Invisus

Spawn wrote: »

On a side note since it was mentioned in this thread former emperor buffs really are not a big deal, yes my guild has about 20+ emperors, no we didn't sit there and pay apart in that absolutely *** crap that's happening on celerus, took us 2 months to build that many crowning emperors threw hard work on multiply servers, you guys at BT know how hard it was when we crowned Fireshot.

The team I was with was back capping BRK while you guys were capping Aleswell to crown. I think you beat us by 1 minute? 2 minutes? It was tight.

Any non-blue emperor on Bloodthorn is an accomplishment. They have a huge euro morning presence on that server that makes it impossible to capture enough during prime time most days to push anything.

I'm in agreement in regards to the FPS bug. This will make or break the game. As an old Shadowbaner, I know that hardcore PVPers will grit their teeth and play through a LOT of bugs and issues, but making the client completely unplayable (to the point we have had several people in our guild complain of migraines/nausea) is the one that will make PVPers leave in droves.

I cannot convince people to keep subjecting themselves to this, especially if it makes them motion sick.

Spawn

1-2 Mins, god hell if i know, literally every emperor keep was under siege within the next 5 mins it was crazy. fighting against overwhelming odds all day for that it was like some golden moment that left Aleswell undefended we had 20 bal on both gates and capped that keep in about 3mins which is probably fastest I've taken a keep up to this point (obviously will never be faster unless in a zerg now since guards op)

Vis

AD is affected by fps issues too. Though I know I travel to different servers to extend my personal impact throughout different times of the day.

Giraffon

Anyone else think it would be nice to have a limited hours campaign? Let's say on the NA server there is a campaign that is only open to play from 4 p.m. - Midnight EST?

That way you get to sleep without those late night bullies taking advantage of you not being there to defend your stuff!!

kirnmalidus

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Emp groups running around unaffected by FPS drop taking everything.

The fps issue is affecting everyone.

I don't understand why some people get intimidated when they see players with "former emperor" title. The buff is very small (5% ultimate cost reduction, 2% siege damage bonus, 1% healing bonus). It doesn't compare to fighting the active emperor.

I don't know how you edited the original post to make that look like a quote from me, but I never posted/said that. It was said by @Tintinabula and I replied to that post.

Aeaeren

Nijjion wrote: »

With the target caps we can't really compete against the bigger numbers... Need to get Zenimax to fix the bug of attacking only 6 people with AoEs.

Problem has always been too many campaigns also so if they can take it down to 3 max that would be good... So be it if you have to queue at least it would be more even.

I'm trying to find out why AD encourage the majority noob zerg players more than the others (just like Albion in DAoC)... maybe because AD seem the most normal? AD's story was the most advertised/shown from people playing before release... lots of things. In DAoC it was because Albion was like the human race... we all know they are normally the go to side in MMOs for the average player... Could be reason with AD population but ESO seems pretty even in race choices in a way.

I couldn't join the evil side, I went Midguard and then Midguard healer for the extra challenge. Yup most powerful person on the field as long as I had buddies

Agrippa_Invisus

Aeaeren wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

With the target caps we can't really compete against the bigger numbers... Need to get Zenimax to fix the bug of attacking only 6 people with AoEs.

Problem has always been too many campaigns also so if they can take it down to 3 max that would be good... So be it if you have to queue at least it would be more even.

I'm trying to find out why AD encourage the majority noob zerg players more than the others (just like Albion in DAoC)... maybe because AD seem the most normal? AD's story was the most advertised/shown from people playing before release... lots of things. In DAoC it was because Albion was like the human race... we all know they are normally the go to side in MMOs for the average player... Could be reason with AD population but ESO seems pretty even in race choices in a way.

I couldn't join the evil side, I went Midguard and then Midguard healer for the extra challenge. Yup most powerful person on the field as long as I had buddies

A challenge was finding 8 good players in Albion and a good combination of classes/abilities to make one of the best 8 mans on Percival.

Freaking primary CC class being in cloth instead of Medium or Heavy armor.

SC0TY999

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I really just wish they had reduced the number of campaigns when the last set of them ended. There are still too many. We really need to condense and have our competitive members battle for control, instead of people being spread out across servers avoiding each other. =/

That's the real issue. I'm a bit shocked they didn't move to the new campaign structure when the previous campaigns ended.

Now that they didn't take that opportunity, they'll either have to end the current campaigns early or wait another three months.

That's just lazy.

I'm afraid that when they do actually change the campaign structure they'll break something else! We'll have to endure weeks of more suffering!

Ragnar_Lodbrok

It was clear last campaign that AD has more players than any other side.

Agrippa_Invisus

SC0TY999 wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I really just wish they had reduced the number of campaigns when the last set of them ended. There are still too many. We really need to condense and have our competitive members battle for control, instead of people being spread out across servers avoiding each other. =/

That's the real issue. I'm a bit shocked they didn't move to the new campaign structure when the previous campaigns ended.

Now that they didn't take that opportunity, they'll either have to end the current campaigns early or wait another three months.

That's just lazy.

I'm afraid that when they do actually change the campaign structure they'll break something else! We'll have to endure weeks of more suffering!

"We are aware of a bug at this time that if you zone into the new campaigns your dog is kicked, your hair is yanked, and you're kicked in the jimmies repeatedly by a poltergeist. We think we've identified an issue with the servers being located atop a Native American graveyard. We will be relocating them soon."