Is it supposed to be ok for two sides to take turns at emperor and help each other farm AP...

nukeyoo

I find it common place anyone arguing in defense of emp swapping to be those that did it or are in the process of doing it. Not sure how much validity you want to give any of their arguments.

jpp

I do not see any way to stop it. To ban people you need some concrete evidence that they break some rules consciously. If the situation is that at day 1 one alliance takes all keeps and second just plays on another servers/PvE and next day role switches - you can not just say it is forbidden or blame any specific player. They do not have to do any conspiracy - it will be simply more convinient to do this way.
Also remember that making emperor requires AP, so there always be people who want to kill anything, so this will not be as easy.

SwampRaider

It really is easy to stop this. Start naming and shaming on another ESO website so the mods can't stop you. Why not start naming and shaming on Reddit?

galiumb16_ESO

They just need to separate the former emp skill line from being emporer. Make it achievement based like the undaunted, but AvA specific, or just get rid of it entirely.

The_Drexill

Working as intended. ESO is all about finding exploits, and hitting them hard and fast until they're fixed.

Glantris

i feel like there are many small and manageable changes that could be made to make this less of a thing.

for example what if the emperor tree did not cost skill points, and was simply given to emperors? ex-emps could maybe then keep their reduced passives for as long as they played on that campaign and then have to earn them back when the boards reset by becoming emperor again.
there's also the idea i've heard that you could revamp emp altogether, and make it so that people in their vicinity are buffed by a small amount, rather than just one guy buffed by an enormous amount. i mean, why not? thinking practically, it's difficult to justify the mechanic of buffing a leader of a group rather than giving them something that benefits the whole team. it seems to operate out of an assumption that someone with enough AP to be emperor would be skilled enough to carry the team, or something... not always the case, i've found.

i feel like the mechanics of pvp need to be altered to make working together more important to success somehow. this would benefit everyone, small groups, large coords and people who just like to zerg. i'm beginning to think zos didn't take the time to anticipate how players would interact in the environment they created, and i suspect pvp would become a lot more enjoyable if they gave that a little more attention.

Columba

nukeyoo wrote: »

I find it common place anyone arguing in defense of emp swapping to be those that did it or are in the process of doing it. Not sure how much validity you want to give any of their arguments.

actually I didn't do this, but I don't really care if others do. mind your own business and let others play as they like.

Xexpo

I have witnessed it on Volen, my DC guild was taking a fort controlled by EP last night, only to have AD come in at the last minute behind us, wipe us, and then proceed to leave calmly w/o firing a single shot at an EP.
Think I have seen two dozen new emperors since the campaign restart.

It's obvious to me why they are doing it.
It will never be easier to Emp farm than it is now, before campaign consolidation. Just like farming all the other cyrodiil achievements will never be this easy again.

If you can't beat'em ... (and zos won't stop them) ...
guess we have to join'em :?

Ifthir_ESO

nukeyoo wrote: »

The exploiting your referring to is all within the rules of their game. The shady tactics of pulling people up on keep walls or putting keeps over siege limit with useless siege is all within the rules of the game|

This is blatant misinfo, per Brian Wheeler's quote.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are aware of many of the tactics noted here, and are actively working on solutions to them without removing the effectiveness of ability usage or siege weaponry in combat situations that are within the spirit of Cyrodiil warfare against enemy Alliances. There will be more information on this as they go through the entire internal approval process, and eventually get pushed to Live.

dcincali

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are aware of many of the tactics noted here, and are actively working on solutions to them without removing the effectiveness of ability usage or siege weaponry in combat situations that are within the spirit of Cyrodiil warfare against enemy Alliances. There will be more information on this as they go through the entire internal approval process, and eventually get pushed to Live.

LOL!!! Going off of ZOS' patch history, it will be fixed yes, and 15 other things will break in the process. Bye bye frame rates and hello roll backs...

Armitas

The reason for the behavior is former emperor buffs. Remove the reason and you remove the behavior.

Sunrock

@GunemCleric I bet the other factions thinks your faction is co-oping with there other rival faction as well. Thats how it is to play PvP with 3 factions. It will always feel like its 2 Vs 1 even though the reality is 1 vs 1 vs 1. Any old Planetside player out there can testify about that.

GunemCleric

Sunrock wrote: »

@GunemCleric I bet the other factions thinks your faction is co-oping with there other rival faction as well. Thats how it is to play PvP with 3 factions. It will always feel like its 2 Vs 1 even though the reality is 1 vs 1 vs 1. Any old Planetside player out there can testify about that.

True, but if i see other faction playing together, standing still mixed to together (obviously conversing) and purposely keeping their distance from each other (clearly so as not to harm the other) then there is no chance of paranoia or whatever you want to call it.

I have played quite a lot in pvp, I have been hit by opposing factions and it is obvious when they are and are not working together. I have seen temporary ceasefires to depose a particularly powerful Emperor (MurderThumbs).

But Volendrung for the past 1.5 days so far has been red/yellow/red/yellow Emperors almost always different names (including swapping via abdication), lost count of how many. And looking at the map it is obvious that they are helping each other. In addition, one group takes a castle, then they leave the walls down (which were already) and go to the next. DC shows up to take a castle and both AD and EP show up and both fight DC and only DC.

Talcyndl

Columba wrote: »

Stop being such a busy body. Mind your own business.

This is a fine retort if we were talking about a single player game, or even PvE. As it is, this cheese is being done to gain an advantage in PvP - ie, against other players.

Sunrock

Well it sounds like there is a treaty between the two. But if two big guild co-ops form each faction go to gather I don't see that as an exploit of game mechanics though. ESO should not but into the game community and player politics in PvP IMO. Just have to gratulate the players behind the treaty and have manage to organized two factions to follow there orders.

Only way for you to counter that is to actually start to play better politics in your own faction and organize your factions player better to counter this. Or change campain forcing them to fight each other as there are no 3rd faction to fight anymore.

I have a similar experience from Pirates of the Burning Sea. Was a SOE game that was released in 2008 that had 4 factions. British, Spanish, French and Pirates. On the server I played on The Spansh and the French made a pact to not attack each other and focus on us Brits. The pirates faction on our server was neutral in the war more or less and was mostly mercs. In that game the war campaign was running for 3 months as well. During the first month we "Brits" took a heavy beating until we formed a war council among the top 10 most active guilds and formed a plan. In the end of the 3rd month we won the war. Mainly because we maximized the players organized in the campaign making our logistics superior to the enemy even though they had gather a bigger force if you look at just the numbers.

galiumb16_ESO

Sunrock wrote: »

Well it sounds like there is a treaty between the two. But if two big guild co-ops form each faction go to gather I don't see that as an exploit of game mechanics though. ESO should not but into the game community and player politics in PvP IMO. Just have to gratulate the players behind the treaty and have manage to organized two factions to follow there orders.

Only way for you to counter that is to actually start to play better politics in your own faction and organize your factions player better to counter this. Or change campain forcing them to fight each other as there are no 3rd faction to fight anymore.

I have a similar experience from Pirates of the Burning Sea. Was a SOE game that was released in 2008 that had 4 factions. British, Spanish, French and Pirates. On the server I played on The Spansh and the French made a pact to not attack each other and focus on us Brits. The pirates faction on our server was neutral in the war more or less and was mostly mercs. In that game the war campaign was running for 3 months as well. During the first month we "Brits" took a heavy beating until we formed a war council among the top 10 most active guilds and formed a plan. In the end of the 3rd month we won the war. Mainly because we maximized the players organized in the campaign making our logistics superior to the enemy even though they had gather a bigger force if you look at just the numbers.

Did you read this thread at all before posting? This thread has nothing at all to do with campaign politics.

Krinaman

jpp wrote: »

I do not see any way to stop it. To ban people you need some concrete evidence that they break some rules consciously. If the situation is that at day 1 one alliance takes all keeps and second just plays on another servers/PvE and next day role switches - you can not just say it is forbidden or blame any specific player. They do not have to do any conspiracy - it will be simply more convinient to do this way.
Also remember that making emperor requires AP, so there always be people who want to kill anything, so this will not be as easy.

There is an easy way to stop it. Give the emp buffs to every player when they hit rank 10. Or make it work like the other skill lines where you get more at each level. If everyone can get the buff via normal PvP people wouldn't be doing this silly emp swapping thing.

Sunrock

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

Well it sounds like there is a treaty between the two. But if two big guild co-ops form each faction go to gather I don't see that as an exploit of game mechanics though. ESO should not but into the game community and player politics in PvP IMO. Just have to gratulate the players behind the treaty and have manage to organized two factions to follow there orders.

Only way for you to counter that is to actually start to play better politics in your own faction and organize your factions player better to counter this. Or change campain forcing them to fight each other as there are no 3rd faction to fight anymore.

I have a similar experience from Pirates of the Burning Sea. Was a SOE game that was released in 2008 that had 4 factions. British, Spanish, French and Pirates. On the server I played on The Spansh and the French made a pact to not attack each other and focus on us Brits. The pirates faction on our server was neutral in the war more or less and was mostly mercs. In that game the war campaign was running for 3 months as well. During the first month we "Brits" took a heavy beating until we formed a war council among the top 10 most active guilds and formed a plan. In the end of the 3rd month we won the war. Mainly because we maximized the players organized in the campaign making our logistics superior to the enemy even though they had gather a bigger force if you look at just the numbers.

Did you read this thread at all before posting? This thread has nothing at all to do with campaign politics.

So you think "Emperor swapping" has nothing to do with the players playing and everything with the game mechanics? Well think that if you want. Just don't try to convince me of it.

nukeyoo

Columba wrote: »

nukeyoo wrote: »

I find it common place anyone arguing in defense of emp swapping to be those that did it or are in the process of doing it. Not sure how much validity you want to give any of their arguments.

actually I didn't do this, but I don't really care if others do. mind your own business and let others play as they like.

For someone attempting to speak proverbial wisdom; you seem to lack your own conviction. Mind your own business and let others gripe as they like.

nukeyoo

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

nukeyoo wrote: »

The exploiting your referring to is all within the rules of their game. The shady tactics of pulling people up on keep walls or putting keeps over siege limit with useless siege is all within the rules of the game|

This is blatant misinfo, per Brian Wheeler's quote.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are aware of many of the tactics noted here, and are actively working on solutions to them without removing the effectiveness of ability usage or siege weaponry in combat situations that are within the spirit of Cyrodiil warfare against enemy Alliances. There will be more information on this as they go through the entire internal approval process, and eventually get pushed to Live.

Where is the blatant misinformation? Brian posted that they are aware of the people gaming the system. He then said they're actively working on solutions.

These solutions will change the game or rule sets so that these people/tactics will be stopped. I'd love to know what was "blatantly misinformed." Perhaps you can enlighten me with your infinite wisdom.

Alephen

emporer farming is a natural reaction to the emporer bonuses. it is very elementary game theory that people will work together to more quickly gain the benefits if they are able to.

i have never seen a pvp game with pve bonuses that did not have something along this line. pvp and pve seem to always ruin each other.

DarkMuhi

where is the problem ? you been an emperor I was and many after will have emperor passive skills and achievement is game mechanic
don't cry boy enjoy the game !

Tintinabula

Damage has been done and cant be undone until they take former emp passives away.

Krinaman

DarkMuhi wrote: »

where is the problem ? you been an emperor I was and many after will have emperor passive skills and achievement is game mechanic
don't cry boy enjoy the game !

The problem is once the campaigns change very few if any will be able to get it. Those who got it will then have a permanent advantage over everybody else. An advantage most got via gaming the system.

SBR_QuorTek

Armitas wrote: »

The reason for the behavior is former emperor buffs. Remove the reason and you remove the behavior.

Could even say remove emperor from the campaign and start over with the system, but no former emperor stuff of course.

The other solution though would be so it would only be top 500 people random raffle for becoming emperor, and no ex emperor buffs with the system.

Would give the casual but still on pair with the top AP people skill wise a chance as well.

Anazasi

Its called collusion and Trolls are good at that.

Pathfinder

Agreed, the Former Emperor skill line needs to be removed from the game.

PlagueMonk

Pathfinder wrote: »

Just wanted to confirm that in Volendrung elements of EP and AD are working together. I and another guildmate witnessed two AD and three EP running together. Castles are being left with walls down. I wont bother playing in Cyrodil until the incentive for this behavior is fixed. Who wants to fight a guild made up entirely of former Emperors with the added skill set associated with it.

You want to know why this happens? Because the Devs in their shortsightedness, allowed every race to play on every side, allow us to have different characters in every faction and to make guilds cross faction. While this is all very convenient, it breeds these types of actions.

There should have been three dedicated and distinct sides, all completely apart from one another. Granted you can still set up something outside the parameters of the game but it makes collusion much more difficult.

nukeyoo

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

Just wanted to confirm that in Volendrung elements of EP and AD are working together. I and another guildmate witnessed two AD and three EP running together. Castles are being left with walls down. I wont bother playing in Cyrodil until the incentive for this behavior is fixed. Who wants to fight a guild made up entirely of former Emperors with the added skill set associated with it.

You want to know why this happens? Because the Devs in their shortsightedness, allowed every race to play on every side, allow us to have different characters in every faction and to make guilds cross faction. While this is all very convenient, it breeds these types of actions.

There should have been three dedicated and distinct sides, all completely apart from one another. Granted you can still set up something outside the parameters of the game but it makes collusion much more difficult.

I wouldn't find exchanging voice coms information here on the forums or reddit to be "much more difficult." Relaying information to gather people into a irc channel; doesn't seem that daunting of a task to me either.

The ease of cross faction communication is not why this happens. Does it make it easier? Sure, but it is not the reason.

Rylana

Theres a whole lot of jealousy in this thread, js

Disclaimer: Not an emperor or former emperor