Requesting video proof on countering oil traps at resource towers.

Ralathar44

I'd like to see on of the guilds out there make a video showing them countering an Oil Trap at a resource tower without using Dragon Knights or overwhelming numbers.

The reasons why I want no DK's? Because Zenimax has already confirmed that they will be taking a fair amount of nerfing, so to test with their current strength will be counter-productive. As well since you will be at a combat disadvantage against the people inside (no doubt using alot of DK's) this would make the proof all the more compelling. After all showing a video based on banner bombing if banner bombing gets nerfed won't be very convincing.


This was brought about because I was told that oil traps at resource towers could be easily countered with any group so long as you used certain abilties. Exact quote:

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Any group can survive an oil trap if they are coordinating purges, heals, ults and aoe over voice. ANY GROUP.

But despite looking for video proof of Oil Traps at resource towers, I only seem to find more videos of people farming countless enemies with oil traps.

So please, somebody make a video demonstrating that you can counter these oil traps with any group (without using overwhelming numbers). I just want to see something besides empty words that show it can easily be done.

Zintair

Why not just break the tower?

Ralathar44

Zintair wrote: »

Why not just break the tower?

2 reasons.

1. Because needing to break every resource tower just to prevent this is dumb, slows down keep taking significantly, and costs extra resources via both siege and repair costs.

2. Because most Oil Trap farms happen AFTER the you take the flag and you cannot damage your own tower. Owning the tower becomes a major disadvantage when facing this tactic, which is just wrong lol.

Xnemesis

Or you could just move on to the next resource if they want to hide in the tower.... nobody says you have to go inside and get farmed.

Ralathar44

Xnemesis wrote: »

Or you could just move on to the next resource if they want to hide in the tower.... nobody says you have to go inside and get farmed.

While true this lets the enemy contest the keep indefinitely until they are removed. This takes away a transitus location and breaks the link.

Leaok

Step 1) Equip Purge, Bone shield, Maneuvers and barrier Ultimate on your teams action bars
Step 2) Use these abilities
Step 3) Enter tower
Step 4) Rush to the top of the tower
Step 5) Clear the tower from top to bottom.

I will check to see if my guildmate who captures our fights has a tower clearing one.

camaan

If you know someone is farming you, why do you play into their hands? Tactics sometimes involve re-positioning or making them think you left or let them rot in the tower. The biggest FU you can give to people is letting them sit there alone with no targets to kill.

Or better yet, don't take the flag until you have the farmers clear.

Ralathar44

bbevier_ESO wrote: »

Step 1) Equip Purge, Bone shield, Maneuvers and barrier Ultimate on your teams action bars
Step 2) Use these abilities
Step 3) Enter tower
Step 4) Rush to the top of the tower
Step 5) Clear the tower from top to bottom.

I will check to see if my guildmate who captures our fights has a tower clearing one.

Sweet, I'm not entirely against the idea that it can be done, but I've been playing MMORPG's too long to just trust forum posts. After all I've seen people argue for things more OP than Bright Wizards in past games. You understand that I like to actually SEE it happen and how disconcerting it is that I cannot find videos of it happening, instead of I can only find videos of people being farmed.

I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.

Ralathar44

camaan wrote: »

If you know someone is farming you, why do you play into their hands? Tactics sometimes involve re-positioning or making them think you left or let them rot in the tower. The biggest FU you can give to people is letting them sit there alone with no targets to kill.

Or better yet, don't take the flag until you have the farmers clear.

Leaving them in control of your resources is a tactically terrible idea, with the mechanics of resources, links, and teleportation this can be used against your side in a significant way that can affect the overall zone battle.

That's why I'm here trying to get video proof of people clearing it without relying on things soon to be nerfed. (devs words not mine on the DK nerfs that will happen). With such a video I could verify what was done and how it was done and use that information to counter future campers.

I'm capable of leading the guild I'm part of in the offensive to do so, but they will need instructions on exactly what to do. Instructions I currently do not have right now because there is so much information and disinformation. Without solid proof I'm not leading my team into it's deaths repeatedly, many members are new and repeated deaths is not the best way to earn their trust in my leadership lol.

So far what I've personally witnessed and participated in is groups that had no problems taking keeps from the enemy being slaughtered at those resource towers. I've been able to break the ranks personally, with allies as well, and get out of oil pouring, but the damage inflicted by the oil has been too much to accomplish anything after getting free.

My archer character of course could use molten armor to easily do so, but I'd rather not build a strategy around something that may soon receive additional nerfs because the last nerfs to it were hotfix nerfs, likely not intended to be the final balancing of it.


This is why I am here doing the legwork. Someone suggested any group could do it, so I want to SEE that happen without banner bombs or Molten Armor towing the line.

Infraction

Would like to state also by leaving them in the tower, that doesn't mean vacate completely. You can pull off after taking it and leave someone stealthier to call you back in when they come out to recap. They aren't going to sit in there for too long with no kills coming in. The whole point of setting up like that is the instant gratification of farming a bunch of kills in a short time period.

camaan

The way you clear it is to drop the tower before taking the flag.
Otherwise, pretending to run off and stealthing back to the tower and waiting for them to come out may be your best option.

Running into a foritified AE defended position thinking you are going to take it over by spamming a few abilities is not effective and to suggest they shouldn't hold their position when they are built and organized to defend it is silly to suggest.

If this game ever gets to where you can't effectively hold a position as an organized group vs people who charge in recklessly, I will leave and not come back.

Why do you feel so adamant that you should even be able to go in and wipe them?

camaan

Infraction wrote: »

Would like to state also by leaving them in the tower, that doesn't mean vacate completely. You can pull off after taking it and leave someone stealthier to call you back in when they come out to recap. They aren't going to sit in there for too long with no kills coming in. The whole point of setting up like that is the instant gratification of farming a bunch of kills in a short time period.

Exactly! Sometimes you may have to give up some ground to kill them.
Maybe you should let them come out and recapture the farm.
Then push and drop the tower and recapture the farm. It takes 20 seconds with a decent group to capture the flag and poof, they can't farm you anymore.

So what if it cuts of port for 5 minutes. The problem is solved.

Infraction

camaan wrote: »

The way you clear it is to drop the tower before taking the flag.
Otherwise, pretending to run off and stealthing back to the tower and waiting for them to come out may be your best option.

Running into a foritified AE defended position thinking you are going to take it over by spamming a few abilities is not effective and to suggest they shouldn't hold their position when they are built and organized to defend it is silly to suggest.

If this game ever gets to where you can't effectively hold a position as an organized group vs people who charge in recklessly, I will leave and not come back.

Why do you feel so adamant that you should even be able to go in and wipe them?

Would love an explanation of this myself. The whole conversation started I. The other thread just feels like I want to do this one thing but I don't want to have to go outside my comfort zone of the abilities that I prefer to use even though they don't work in this particular situation.

TLDR: square peg doesn't fit in round hole.

Ralathar44

camaan wrote: »

The way you clear it is to drop the tower before taking the flag.
Otherwise, pretending to run off and stealthing back to the tower and waiting for them to come out may be your best option.

Running into a foritified AE defended position thinking you are going to take it over by spamming a few abilities is not effective and to suggest they shouldn't hold their position when they are built and organized to defend it is silly to suggest.

If this game ever gets to where you can't effectively hold a position as an organized group vs people who charge in recklessly, I will leave and not come back.

Why do you feel so adamant that you should even be able to go in and wipe them?

Don't get me wrong, the only reason it doesn't sit well with me is because of all the oil pots on the ground floor being poured on top of themselves is 90% of the damage.

If they were using proper murder holes and possibly even double doors in keeps it'd feel like it was alot more intended. (It was also make it tons harder for the people pouring the oil to also provide 3/4 of the CC needed to make things work like they do now)


Well, that and the fact that owning the tower actually becomes a severe detriment. That's a little backwards.



Either way though I've been told it's easily doable, why shouldn't I pursue that knowledge again? That one sentence kind of makes all the ands, ifs, butts (yes i did that on purpose), reasoning, etc moot.

frwinters_ESO

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Why not just break the tower?

2 reasons.

1. Because needing to break every resource tower just to prevent this is dumb, slows down keep taking significantly, and costs extra resources via both siege and repair costs.

2. Because most Oil Trap farms happen AFTER the you take the flag and you cannot damage your own tower. Owning the tower becomes a major disadvantage when facing this tactic, which is just wrong lol.

The problem here is when you leave, they come out, rtake the resource so people come back to retake the resource, then they go into the keep, rinse and repeat. Its annoying.

Jaxom

Like others have said, just drop the tower. If you already took it and the above happens. Awesome. They own the resource so now you can drop it. Dont repair it afterwards (I never do at least)

Yes you will use some AP for the seige, but what else do you use AP for? The gear? Most likely not. I'm sitting on 400,000 AP with nothing to spend it on except for seige. Wasting AP on seige is a poor excuse.

With all of that said, I'll ask a guildie if they have any videos of us doing it. I'm not sure if Talons were used but I know we have been successful (not every time but more times than not). If it's overwhelming odd against us, I'm not here to feed AP to my enemy. I'll just move on and come back if they try to cut off transit.

Ifthir_ESO

A lot of trash talk in this thread and 0 videos.

What a surprise.

Baphomet

Set up oil pots outside the windows and oil the ground floor from outside until they are forced to back up - then rush in.

Ralathar44

Jaxom wrote: »

Like others have said, just drop the tower. If you already took it and the above happens. Awesome. They own the resource so now you can drop it. Dont repair it afterwards (I never do at least)

Yes you will use some AP for the seige, but what else do you use AP for? The gear? Most likely not. I'm sitting on 400,000 AP with nothing to spend it on except for seige. Wasting AP on seige is a poor excuse.

With all of that said, I'll ask a guildie if they have any videos of us doing it. I'm not sure if Talons were used but I know we have been successful (not every time but more times than not). If it's overwhelming odd against us, I'm not here to feed AP to my enemy. I'll just move on and come back if they try to cut off transit.

Once they fix the bug I'd like to have my AP for forward camps. That use honestly trumps nearly every other use of AP.

Ralathar44

Baphomet wrote: »

Set up oil pots outside the windows and oil the ground floor from outside until they are forced to back up - then rush in.

To be fair countering oil pots with oil pots would be a pretty big sign of a problem lol.

Agrippa_Invisus

Baphomet wrote: »

Set up oil pots outside the windows and oil the ground floor from outside until they are forced to back up - then rush in.

A good oil farmer sets up a pot up at every window to prevent this (too close to siege errors due to this), then more in the middle. My favorite is when people try to shoot/ae in through a window and get oiled due to the setup.

Ralathar44

bbevier_ESO wrote: »

Step 1) Equip Purge, Bone shield, Maneuvers and barrier Ultimate on your teams action bars
Step 2) Use these abilities
Step 3) Enter tower
Step 4) Rush to the top of the tower
Step 5) Clear the tower from top to bottom.

I will check to see if my guildmate who captures our fights has a tower clearing one.

So many people in this thread making this guy look awesome .

This post vs this thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with 90% of the people commenting in the forums.

He gave a detailed lineup of what to do and what to use and is checking to see if he can get a video. If more people answered or asked questions similarly these forums would be a 10X better place for both players and developers.

He did not insert his opinion, talk trash, or indeed deviate from the point. He simply provided the information he had and went to look and see if he had more.

Infraction

Ralathar44 wrote: »

bbevier_ESO wrote: »

Step 1) Equip Purge, Bone shield, Maneuvers and barrier Ultimate on your teams action bars
Step 2) Use these abilities
Step 3) Enter tower
Step 4) Rush to the top of the tower
Step 5) Clear the tower from top to bottom.

I will check to see if my guildmate who captures our fights has a tower clearing one.

So many people in this thread making this guy look awesome .

This post vs this thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with 90% of the people commenting in the forums.

He gave a detailed lineup of what to do and what to use and is checking to see if he can get a video. If more people answered or asked questions similarly these forums would be a 10X better place for both players and developers.

He did not insert his opinion, talk trash, or indeed deviate from the point. He simply provided the information he had and went to look and see if he had more.

I think the problem you seem to be missing is that we are expected to prove to you it works rather than we give you the tools to do it and you tell us it doesn't work without trying it.

Personally I could care less if you get farmed at resource towers all night.

Ralathar44

Infraction wrote: »

I think the problem you seem to be missing is that we are expected to prove to you it works rather than we give you the tools to do it and you tell us it doesn't work without trying it.

Personally I could care less if you get farmed at resource towers all night.

You are expected to do nothing, I REQUESTED a video. IE asked, nicely. I even said please and thanked the first person actually offering to help.

My ability to try it is currently limited, as stated we have new members in the guild I'm part of and I'd like to stick to more successful group activities for a short while until they settle in. I want them to see what we can do and trust each other as a unit before we start doing experimental stuff that might throw them to the wolves.

I also will not be working with all VR12's and stuff. I will be working with what my guild can field at any given time, so I need a good view of the situation so I can adapt it to our current capabilities of each individual outing. Example: Bone shield is not something half of them will have available.

Basically:
"Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

Hymzir

Taking a tower with campers can be done. It is, however, annoyingly hard, and you will suffer some casualties while doing it. The oil stacking is just too brutal. It is the hardest hitting siege, which I find ridiculous.

I don't have vids, sorry, don't record any myself, but the way I've done it, and have seen others do it, is by popping a bunch of HoT abilities and defense buffs before entering the tower and then using either that speed buff skill or a gap closer ability once inside to clear the gauntlet of oil at the door.

The key is to clear the worst oil patch at the door and then hit the oilers with stuns from behind so that the next group through the door wont get hit with oil.

It then becomes a numbers game just like any other battle. But, yeah, expect to lose some of those who enter the tower in the first wave. I have survived several such assaults even though I've been one of the first to enter, but I have also died by taking three simultaneous hits for 1800 each from oil the moment I enter. Ultimately it's something you learn by doing it. Just using the right skills isn't enough, you gotta know what you're doing and where you are going. Eventually you will develop a proper technique for it - but the specifics will depend on your class and what skills you've got. And you will die a lot while figuring out what will work for you. I died a lot too in the start, but my death rates have been steadily decreasing and these days I make out alive more often than not.

nez

purges, knockbacks

Halrloprillalar

Hymzir wrote: »

The key is to clear the worst oil patch at the door and then hit the oilers with stuns from behind so that the next group through the door wont get hit with oil.

wrong.

Run to the top, then you can both kill and drop oil on the people below while having siege support from the outside

Ifthir_ESO

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Set up oil pots outside the windows and oil the ground floor from outside until they are forced to back up - then rush in.

A good oil farmer sets up a pot up at every window to prevent this (too close to siege errors due to this), then more in the middle. My favorite is when people try to shoot/ae in through a window and get oiled due to the setup.

I realize ESO is a fantasy world but the carrying around of siege equipment is ridiculous. You shouldn't be able to lug 20 pots of boiling oil around while you ride a horse lol.

zazamalek

camaan wrote: »

If you know someone is farming you, why do you play into their hands?

Honestly, nowadays I see most people not playing into their (actually, our) hands. We always have a really good laugh at the type of players that continually fall for this trap - especially when they run into the tower in drips and drabs.

Xnemesis

couldn't they just take the doors off the tower and it would elleviate some issues? I think some of it is the load times causing people to die before they even can see whats going on.

Bramir

The solution to this is go through the door, purge and run up the stairs. Purge again. Kill them all. It works brilliantly, assuming your squad was actually capable of killing them all in open battle. If you aren't, then what does it matter if they wiped you with oil or something else?