Play as you want?

Drachdhar

Once upon a time I was under the impression that class would not be the major number 1 impact on your playstyle in this game, merely a starting point.

As it is, that is very much not the case. I'd say most people will run around with maybe 1 or 2 non-class skills on their bar, which makes class the number one definable trait of any character in this game.
Is that the way it is supposed to be in ESO?

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Actually everyone runs around in light armor and staffs, because if you dont you are doing it wrong (like me where I learned that tanks are not part of play your way)

Drachdhar

Well, aside from my sorc... I dont do that... yet...

Rev Rielle

Honestly, the answer is not to worry about what other people are doing and play as you want, as long as you're having fun, really isn't that what matters most? It's a game after all.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Someday, there won't be THE go-to build anymore.

Maybe in a year or so, because balancing is so hard.... Not much safely usable variety on the battlefield until that happens.

eliisra

Partly wrong and partly right, in my opinion.

Class has more impact than it should. Couldn't agree more!

Most people only run with 1-2 non class skills. Wrong.

Only lower level or clueless players will have a build with mostly class skills.

On my sorc I normally use 2-3 class skills and one Ulti. Slotting more from class is not effective. Depending on role: It's a dps, tanking-ability or hps loss. That's objectively speaking.

It's the same for most classes. Destruction staff, Restoration staff and Mage's Guild, kicks ass compared to most class skill lines.

Alliance, World or Fighter guilds, also kicks more butt, in many situations.

There is definitely a balancing problem when it comes to non-class skills lines. Some are superior to our class skills, some so bad (generally weapon stamina ones) you can't even use them to kill mudcrabs.

Drachdhar

Stamina weapon skills generally suck, meaning melee/bow players will generally not use more than 1 or 2 at most since class skills generally have way more synergy and higher dmg or utility.

What i've found is that generally you run with 3 class skills + class ulti. Meaning class is the main contributor, ie mostly class skills.
If you use Resto staff that may not be the case though for PvE healing, or it may be still. Was for my NB healer.

Alliance, World or Fighters guilds skills.. Like was said, situational and not generally on your skill bar. If you run around with Silver Bolts or other Fighters Guilds skills when not fighting Undead/Daedra/Werewolves then you are being less effective.

Drachdhar

And my point is, you should be able to play with no class skills and be as viable. That was a selling point of this game...

Wifeaggro13

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, the answer is not to worry about what other people are doing and play as you want, as long as you're having fun, really isn't that what matters most? It's a game after all.

until you hit VR content and end game

smercgames_ESO

It does suck that the balance in the game is so horrid right now you are basically forced to play with magicka builds. I finally gave in earlier today and moved all my points from health to magicka. The difference in the damage numbers is stupid. Hopefully soon they will figure out what the hell they are going to do to balance Stamina. I'm hopeing they move some class skills to Stamina, I think it's pretty stupid design to make all class skills Magicka.

Nox_Aeterna

Since the start , people (including me) should have noticed that , play as you want is a big lie on zens part.

The first and biggest in error in zens design , is how they added forced solo instance and now a group zone.

The forced solo instance on itself is a great idea , but needs to be used right. They could have added this on certain dungeons , to certain achivs , to certain new challenges... Like we have anchors/group dungeons ... All of those on the side , not something you must do while on the main quest path. This way , people could decide which to do.

Not happy with this, zen now made the zone that people get vets11/12 in PvE , a group only zone , which now forces people to group in their game to lvl... Notice , im not against craglorn on itself , but it should have been added being another way to group to go vr1-10 , intead of making it a zone everyone needs for vr11/12.


I dont know if it is because zen is ... a green horn to not use worse terms or if they are doing on purpose , but either way , currently they are failing pretty hard.

Rev Rielle

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, the answer is not to worry about what other people are doing and play as you want, as long as you're having fun, really isn't that what matters most? It's a game after all.

until you hit VR content and end game

*Blinks*
You're not allowed to do what you want and have fun in VR content/end-game?

Ysne58

Grouping the way it's set up flies in the face of that claim for play how you like.

Drachdhar

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, the answer is not to worry about what other people are doing and play as you want, as long as you're having fun, really isn't that what matters most? It's a game after all.

until you hit VR content and end game

*Blinks*
You're not allowed to do what you want and have fun in VR content/end-game?

Depends on your build. Some builds are incredibly awful past lvl 1-50. So yeh, magicka builds in light armor and destro staff kinda kicks ass... everything else suffers. Especially when the mobs both have more health and hit harder than you do.
Granted, it is survivable and even manageable. But is it fun? Not to me at least. Put two chars so far up to VR content, barely play em anymore. Amongst other things due to feeling forced to do PvE when I dont want to since you dont get gold or a decent amount of xp in PvP.

reagen_lionel

Drachdhar wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly, the answer is not to worry about what other people are doing and play as you want, as long as you're having fun, really isn't that what matters most? It's a game after all.

until you hit VR content and end game

*Blinks*
You're not allowed to do what you want and have fun in VR content/end-game?

Depends on your build. Some builds are incredibly awful past lvl 1-50. So yeh, magicka builds in light armor and destro staff kinda kicks ass... everything else suffers. Especially when the mobs both have more health and hit harder than you do.
Granted, it is survivable and even manageable. But is it fun? Not to me at least. Put two chars so far up to VR content, barely play em anymore. Amongst other things due to feeling forced to do PvE when I dont want to since you dont get gold or a decent amount of xp in PvP.

And thats pretty what I'm seeing too. Theres quite a few things wrong with pvp in itself that Im not going to discuss here, but the upcoming updates may help that significantly. We'll see how that goes.

But over all, its feeling like the game is funneling people to have to play particular playstyles to just do decently, I dont care about being most effencient, just decently is a challenge to do.

And basing all future content on solely group content isnt the way to go. There should be alternate paths for all future VR content that doesnt solely rely on group based things.

methjester

You can play any way you want. Until you change your mind and need to pay 30k to change 10 or so morphs.

It's a good mechanic really. Want to change 10 skills? Change the other 290.

dracobains_ESO

"Play as you want", indicates that the average player can create any archetype that they enjoy and be successful completing the game content. You cannot enjoy the game if you are constantly frustrated with deaths and doing the same boss over and over. (most players won't enjoy this at least)

So when it comes to class builds you cannot play as you want. You can approach the game as you want, slow casual or rush to end etc. There are things you must master like methods for evasion and all the rest so you can't sit there and just pew pew and hope for the best. So game mechanics do require certain aspects but it is interesting and fresh overall.

Unless you are an exceptional player or a masochist, stay away from stam builds. They make some of the content really brutal. You cannot solo play certain content with a lot of common builds. So there is a considerable portion of the game that you cannot "play as you want".

Drachdhar

Current VR gameplay consists of equipping 5-7 bits of light armor, a destro staff
-> run up to mobs, slam down a Fire Blockade, Burning Talons, then spam Impulse until things start dying all while holding Block down... Rinse and repeat.
And that is possibly the most effective you can be, at least as a DK.

Not a fun playstyle... especially not to go through VR content which in and of itself is a slight drudgery.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Drachdhar wrote: »

Current VR gameplay consists of equipping 5-7 bits of light armor, a destro staff
-> run up to mobs, slam down a Fire Blockade, Burning Talons, then spam Impulse until things start dying all while holding Block down... Rinse and repeat.
And that is possibly the most effective you can be, at least as a DK.

Not a fun playstyle... especially not to go through VR content which in and of itself is a slight drudgery.

Thats the only way to get through vr apparently, which is why my DK main is parked and Ive been playing just cause 2 multiplayer, which is an awesome pvp mmo.

Drachdhar

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Drachdhar wrote: »

Current VR gameplay consists of equipping 5-7 bits of light armor, a destro staff
-> run up to mobs, slam down a Fire Blockade, Burning Talons, then spam Impulse until things start dying all while holding Block down... Rinse and repeat.
And that is possibly the most effective you can be, at least as a DK.

Not a fun playstyle... especially not to go through VR content which in and of itself is a slight drudgery.

Thats the only way to get through vr apparently, which is why my DK main is parked and Ive been playing just cause 2 multiplayer, which is an awesome pvp mmo.

Yeh... Last two weeks or more i've been struggling to find a reason to play this game. Boxed into certain playstyles, that I do not enjoy...
Constant respeccs due to getting the wrong morphs, or needing to change weapon skills(at least on my NB since that char is my main crafter atm, kinda ties up a few SPs) is really making all my chars really broke... and that is just in trying to find a playstyle which is fun and good so I can get through the VR content and max my lvl so I can compete in PvP somewhat well.

Kinda odd that my most anticipated MMO is the one I quit after least amount of played time. Or maybe not[shrugs]...

Sihnfahl

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

Unless you are an exceptional player or a masochist, stay away from stam builds. They make some of the content really brutal.

I agree, it's nasty as a stam build. That being said, it's an interesting line, if they ever get it patched right. And yes, it's a brutal fight a lot of the time - especially if enemies regen (like trolls).

Bezz

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Since the start , people (including me) should have noticed that , play as you want is a big lie on zens part.

The first and biggest in error in zens design , is how they added forced solo instance and now a group zone.

It's an mmo a freaking mmo and your complaining about group content. Zen isn't the big issue it is clueless people that talk out their backside with complete idiotic comments and remarks.

This game is play your way. All the people that say they are forced to re-roll fl from nb or temp are just people that want an easy ride through the game. Nb isn't the best but is viable and people have beaten the trials with nb in their group on multiple occasions. Yes resto and d-staff are amazing but for those that I think it's the only way your just dumb. Their are many ways to get through content without d-staff and resto staff. Just find what works fairly simple.

altrego9920_ESO

Bezz wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Since the start , people (including me) should have noticed that , play as you want is a big lie on zens part.

The first and biggest in error in zens design , is how they added forced solo instance and now a group zone.

It's an mmo a freaking mmo and your complaining about group content. Zen isn't the big issue it is clueless people that talk out their backside with complete idiotic comments and remarks.

This game is play your way. All the people that say they are forced to re-roll fl from nb or temp are just people that want an easy ride through the game. Nb isn't the best but is viable and people have beaten the trials with nb in their group on multiple occasions. Yes resto and d-staff are amazing but for those that I think it's the only way your just dumb. Their are many ways to get through content without d-staff and resto staff. Just find what works fairly simple.

Not even close, unless your resto or dstaff you do not bring anything to the team in VR content. People say they are forced to re-roll NB is because why would you bring the guy with no arms to a long distance team swim competition, sure he *can* do it, but compared to the rest of his team he is just getting carried. Yes people have completed trials with NB .... but... why? Do you like griefing your team? are you trolling? just make it easier and bring a dk/sorc. Even if you watch the high time trials the only reason people are bringing a single NB is for the ult.... the rest of the time they are being carried, by the STAFF WIELDING DRESS WEARING real dps/tanks.

Bezz

altrego9920_ESO wrote: »

Bezz wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Since the start , people (including me) should have noticed that , play as you want is a big lie on zens part.

The first and biggest in error in zens design , is how they added forced solo instance and now a group zone.

It's an mmo a freaking mmo and your complaining about group content. Zen isn't the big issue it is clueless people that talk out their backside with complete idiotic comments and remarks.

This game is play your way. All the people that say they are forced to re-roll fl from nb or temp are just people that want an easy ride through the game. Nb isn't the best but is viable and people have beaten the trials with nb in their group on multiple occasions. Yes resto and d-staff are amazing but for those that I think it's the only way your just dumb. Their are many ways to get through content without d-staff and resto staff. Just find what works fairly simple.

Not even close, unless your resto or dstaff you do not bring anything to the team in VR content. People say they are forced to re-roll NB is because why would you bring the guy with no arms to a long distance team swim competition, sure he *can* do it, but compared to the rest of his team he is just getting carried. Yes people have completed trials with NB .... but... why? Do you like griefing your team? are you trolling? just make it easier and bring a dk/sorc. Even if you watch the high time trials the only reason people are bringing a single NB is for the ult.... the rest of the time they are being carried, by the STAFF WIELDING DRESS WEARING real dps/tanks.

You saying that everyone needs to be a real dps has to use resto/d-staff is just sad. Your not gimping anything if you COMPLETE the trial. If you beat it with no wipes where is the issue. Is a little more time seriously going to kill you, because someone wants to actually do something they want in this game. Your comment is beyond elitist. If you can complete content regardless of race, class, build, weapon etc. I don't see the issue. Game is play your way period. People just want everything handed to them and think if they are whatever is OP atm they are amazing.

altrego9920_ESO

You completely missed the point, but guess i can try and alleviate the confusion on your part. I said that yes you *CAN* complete a trial, BUT why the hell should it be so much easier just because you have another class. Do you not understand that since they made stamina skills, as well as the class abilities that buff it borderline useless. It is not elitist in any way to say why bring a sub optimal character, it IS being a *** to ASSUME that someone will want to bring you just because you want to "play your way". If you get some friends together that want to carry you through a dungeon then fine, die as often as you like, wipe the trial, do whatever you what i really don't care. Do NOT expect to be allowed in groups when people want to actually complete and compete. It is as simple as that. Think of it like a basketball team, sure its fun to toss a bunch of scrubs on the court and watch them flail around, but if you want to actually win something you have to bring your best.

Bezz

altrego9920_ESO wrote: »

You completely missed the point, but guess i can try and alleviate the confusion on your part. I said that yes you *CAN* complete a trial, BUT why the hell should it be so much easier just because you have another class. Do you not understand that since they made stamina skills, as well as the class abilities that buff it borderline useless. It is not elitist in any way to say why bring a sub optimal character, it IS being a *** to ASSUME that someone will want to bring you just because you want to "play your way". If you get some friends together that want to carry you through a dungeon then fine, die as often as you like, wipe the trial, do whatever you what i really don't care. Do NOT expect to be allowed in groups when people want to actually complete and compete. It is as simple as that. Think of it like a basketball team, sure its fun to toss a bunch of scrubs on the court and watch them flail around, but if you want to actually win something you have to bring your best.

T.T but if their is no issue with bringing them their is no point. I get what your trying to say, and of course people want the best like their A squad so to speak to go into stuff, but it is also being a *** to not even think of choosing someone that is a NB just because DK/Sorc are what's OP atm.

When the buffs to NB happen and a real balance to stamina skills also happens to make everything in line their won't be much issue, so whatever no point arguing.

altrego9920_ESO

T.T but if their is no issue with bringing them their is no point. I get what your trying to say, and of course people want the best like their A squad so to speak to go into stuff, but it is also being a *** to not even think of choosing someone that is a NB just because DK/Sorc are what's OP atm.

When the buffs to NB happen and a real balance to stamina skills also happens to make everything in line their won't be much issue, so whatever no point arguing.[/quote]

Exactly, when the buffs to NB and the balance of stamina skills happens then NB *might* be worth bringing somewhere and not just for pity. As of right now, no reason to have them, so yeah... play as you want.... as long as you don't want to be effective or want to be carried. To me that is the opposite of play as i want. That's play as you want me with only what you want me to play, or giving a kid a box of crayons and saying sure you can use any colors you want for the picture, but if you use anything other than blue and pink your not going to get an A.

Drachdhar

Getting boxed into certain builds in a game like this... Will make this game dead way faster.
Well, there is always Wildstar...

Wifeaggro13

You can play anyway you want any class you want as long as your wearing a dress and wielding a baton. So really everyone is a cheer leader.

Rev Rielle

People have misinterpreted 'play as you want' with; 'you can do everything in-game no matter how you play'.
This confusion happens a lot these days it seems.

Deccion

I agree with you that class is more defining than I think was intended. Having said that, I honestly do not think it is that bad of an arrangement. I suppose they could have done away with class skills all together and see how that turned out. Im not a programmer, so I dont know.

I disagree with the rest of it though. I play a tank build. I have 3 class skills, 2 weapons skill and a guild ultimate on both bars. 1 for melee, 1 for ranged. I think that is pretty diverse. I spent more time finding a way to win, playing the way I want, rather than do what everyone else does. Im happy with it so far.