Is EsO become Harry Potter - Land of the Mages - do we need another nerf bat to address this

isengrimb16_ESO

Belgerog wrote: »

I don't know much about DK, Sorc, Templar.. but i am playing a nightblade.
And i do not have any issues to take down groups of 8 or more.
there are AOE Builds for any kind of class and Weapon Combination.

My NB Aoe Build is working as a Caster, as DD oder as Tank.

So maybe you have to change your Gameplay and look what your class can do.

There is no Reason for bringing more Fokus to Stamina.

I Think most people should leave the classical view that mana must be for mages and stamina is for melees. Your Charakter has three Ressources.. USE Them and dont ignore a stat just you are thinking you should not use it.

The Drakonknight is not only a tank he can be a caster. The Mage can be a Tank.

Well, my Nighblade is clad all in medium armour, uses three bow skills, two siphoning skills, and the siphoning ultimate. I seem to do best with him (for some reason, I'm really crappy on my dragonknight; I think it's because he's more of a close-up guy, though I broke down, got rid of his blades, and gave him a fire staff. Now he doesn't have enough mana to keep up. Oh well, that can be fixed.)

I love how I built my NB, and I know how to work him. He's got tons and tons of stam, I rarely run out (and then class skills to use up his magicka - I didn't min max him.) But then, I'm not in VR content yet, only in Coldharbour for that final push (46).

I'll take a weapon/stam build buff any day, though, regardless. Don't give a damn about "pvp" balance, because that can NEVER be balanced unless you're playing the exact same thing (or "classes" become illusionary, with the same abilities under different names and animations.) When Mario and Luigi fight, the only difference between them is the colour of their clothes. There's your balanced pvp game.

Vyshan

Imo, one of the best things ZOS could do to settle balance issues is to implement real classes and get rid of this "pick and choose whatever skills you want" nonsense.
It's way too easy to pick the "wrong" skills and "wrong" playstyle. More so with the vague tooltips that largely leaving you guessing and what does what.

It's substantially easier to balance a class/content when you know all the variables that define it. This freeform concept creates too much design uncertainty and situations where X may be overpowered for X class, but changing it breaks Y class, for whom it was fairly well balanced.

FunkyBudda

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Geeeeeeeez, enough with the calling for nerfs. What you want is to fix the game for the people it's not working for, not break it for the (few) people it is working for. Unless you're just plain a jerk.

I beg to differ. When they nerfed Bolt Escape that has nothing to do with PvE (did that make Sorcs solo Craglorn content? Nope), the gloves come off. Now I will be screaming for every class defining skills to be nerfed or altered, karma is a ***, let the nerf war begin.

ErilAq

I'm all for bringing abilities in line with each other, but at this point, I think we're in the buff stamina builds department. If people are migrating to magicka builds, it's more than likely because of two reasons:
1.) every class ability is based on magicka, which is kind of a design flaw in and of itself, since it "forces" everyone to stack magicka to be able to use main class nukes
2.) since people stack magicka for class abilities, they do so at the expense of stamina, which reduces physical damage output, coupled with the lackluster damage of weapon abilities making it difficult to take mobs or magicka based players.

A possible fix would have your class abilities "cost" become magicka or stamina depending on what you're using. (say when wielding a bow class abilities become stamina based

Alphashado

They need to quit nerfing crap and buff/balance stamina based skills and weapons. People are using staves not because they are OP, but because everything else is underpowered. They are nerfing things into the ground because of PvP meanwhile VR content just gets harder and harder. If they nerf staves into the ground and force people to go back to using the gimped stamina builds vs the same VR content, then people are just going to leave even faster than they are already.

nerevarine1138

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

Until recently DK's could solo 12 mobs at once while pushing 1.7k dps single target, so I mean..

Frankly, the nerfs need to end, and the buffs need to begin. Instead of "nerfbat to the face!" the "best" classes, why not buff everyone else up to that point?

To respond to this (and every other post in this thread in the same vein):

Because those buffs would result in everyone being able to solo group content. Which is the opposite of balance. That content is supposed to be challenging, and with some of the current destro-staff synergies, staves are overtuned to that content. It doesn't mean that dual-wield/bow/two-hander/sword-and-board aren't viable. It just means that anyone looking for an easier version of the game will choose staves.

Alphashado

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

Until recently DK's could solo 12 mobs at once while pushing 1.7k dps single target, so I mean..

Frankly, the nerfs need to end, and the buffs need to begin. Instead of "nerfbat to the face!" the "best" classes, why not buff everyone else up to that point?

To respond to this (and every other post in this thread in the same vein):

Because those buffs would result in everyone being able to solo group content. Which is the opposite of balance. That content is supposed to be challenging, and with some of the current destro-staff synergies, staves are overtuned to that content. It doesn't mean that dual-wield/bow/two-hander/sword-and-board aren't viable. It just means that anyone looking for an easier version of the game will choose staves.

Viable and "fun" are two different things. People are dropping stamina based builds like a bad habit because they don't want every encounter with a trash mob in VR content to be a death defying event.

Phantorang

I havent seen much nerf calls on Light Armor and Staff at all, only nerf calls on class specific abilities that are magicka based.

Almost everyone agree Sta is inferior to Magicka, I got a very good example:

Lets compare Fighter Guilds "Lightweight Beast Trap I" vs Mage Guilds "Volcanic Rune I"

VOLCANIC RUNE I
Cast Time Instant
Target Ground
Range 28 meters
Radius 3 meters
Duration 30 seconds
Cost 53 Magicka
Creates a Fire Rune at target location for 30 seconds, dealing 18 Fire Damage when an enemy enters the area of effect. Affected enemy is knocked into the air and stunned for 3 seconds.
New Effect:
Enemy is knocked in the air.

VS

LIGHTWEIGHT BEAST TRAP I
Cast Time Instant
Target Ground
Range 28 meters
Radius 2.5 meters
Duration 30 seconds
Cost 49 Stamina
Places a trap at location for 30 seconds. Trap takes 4 seconds to arm then deals 11 Magic Damage and immobilizes closest enemy for 6 seconds. Burns undead and Daedric enemies for 24 Magic Damage.
New Effect:
Can be placed up to 28 meters away.

If Volcanic Rune had a 4 sec activation time, it would be pretty useless, as no one ever takes their time to use the Fighter Guild trap.

Just 1 example, there are certainly a multitude of other examples out there too...

Yankee

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

It seems to me the common consensus is that this game has descended into largely dress and stick builds reminiscent of the Harry Potter series

Do people agree - I mean with the heavy favouring of magicka builds and particularly sorcerer classes soloing 8 mobs at once (to hear them tell it ) what is the implications for the game.

Does the game want to see wall to wall boys in dresses - is this a conspiracy to get us cross dressing.

Seriously it's time to balance the classes properly and bring back some reasonable balance - I don't care who you are you shouldn't be able to take on 8 mobs while other classes struggle with 3

It is not right , not balanced and not fair and will lead to people unsubbing

So here you are again OP. Another nerf anything you are not using thread. You should be asking for buffs to stamina abilities instead.

I hope ZOS pays attention to who continuously creates these troll threads and has sense enough to ignore them.

Like this one you started;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107353/nerf-volcanic-rune-enough-already/p1

and then this one;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107536/why-does-z-favour-magicka-casters-so-greatly-over-melee#latest

and oh wait, another;

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107320/zos-ignore-at-your-peril/p1

All for nerfing any play style other than what you happen to like.

Just so you can get 10 more pages of controversy, and say the same thing as you post 30 more times.

I think you have made it clear already how you feel.

Give it a break. LOL I know thats not going to happen. Troll on sir.

twistedmonk

The entire combat system is simply a race to out-dps the mob(s) attacking you. not a whole lot of skill to hold down block and spam instant cast spells.

and group content is just equipping staff, holding down block, spamming heals/ instant DDs and casting ultimates when they are up.

you can try do something else, but you wouldn't be as effective.

this is my just opinion, but I don't find it interesting, challenging or rewarding.

for those that do, I think that's awesome and those people are most likely not on the forums....

Lynx7386

I have a templar in 2 heavy / 5 light with a resto staff, focused on dawn's wrath and restoring light lines, a "mageplar" style build.

I do not feel like I faceroll anything, tbh. I have pretty good uptime while soloing because the resto staff keeps my magicka bar recharging, and I can use repentance after mob pulls to heal and restore stamina quickly before going on to the next group.

So, while downtime may be nonexistant, I still have to be very careful when I'm initiating combat - if I dont kill the right mob first, dont interrupt or block or dodge when necessary, or spam spells a little too much, I'll wind up dead.


That, IMO, is where any character should be while levelling - both in sub-50 as well as veteran content. Regardless of your build, you should be able to solo efficiently without feeling like you're extremely underpowered. You should still feel 'heroic', but not to the point of blasting apart everything at a glance. You should be able to reach pretty much zero downtime as long as you correctly utilize passives or abilities to recharge your resource pools, and dont over-spam your attacks.


At the moment, I believe that -most- caster builds are at that point. I think that there are some changes that still need to be made, especially to abilities like impulse and the synergies between the destro staff, light armor, and dragonknight abilities/passives. Those are going to be seen as negative changes by anyone who uses them, obviously.

I think that some caster builds are not on that level - nightblade casters can do ok with a resto staff, but are terrible with destruction staff (barring impulse spam) and their class spells arent effective enough otherwise. Sorceror casters are a little too powerful because of the synergy between the instant crystalline shard morph and other spells (especially the cheap destro or resto spells), but outside of that synergy they're fine. Dragonknight casters who do not abuse the synergies in the ardent flame line and instead prefer to focus on the earthen heart tree are also a little underpowered right now.

I think that ALL melee builds, and bow-oriented builds, are far below that point, and are in need of some hefty improvements. I do not think stamina builds have enough synergies available like caster builds do, and I think there's a distinct disadvantage to stamina builds when combat-vital abilities like bashing, dodging, sprinting, blocking, sneaking, cc breaking, etc. are also tied to a player's primary resource pool. That is a core game issue that needs to be addressed.

I also think that the resource cost vs utility and damage of stamina based abilities is out of balance when combared to magicka based abilities right now. That doesnt necessarily mean that magicka abilities need to be nerfed, but it does mean that something needs to be done to bring stamina abilities in-line.

NordJitsu

Certain weapon abilities, particularly melee, could use a cost reduction or a damage buff (I'd prefer cost reduction.)

I also think they should reduce the cost of CC break, roll dodge, and sprint across the board. Then increase the cost reductions associated with medium armor by a bit and add a "Reduces Cost of CC Break" to the 5 piece heavy armor passive.

That said, ya'll are exaggerating a bit. There are plenty of viable melee warrior builds out there if you're a DK. Most people are playing mages because most people are sheep without the ability to create their own builds.

Reevster

Didn't the same guy just make a thread on Nerfing VR ? Just ignore this Nerf happy guy......

Yankee

Reevster wrote: »

Didn't the same guy just make a thread on Nerfing VR ? Just ignore this Nerf happy guy......

This is his fourth or fifth recent nerf casters thread. It is not about lifting any other build up, it is about everyone being as miserable and jealous as he seems to be.

Doctoruniverse

Is ESO forum becoming land of whiners because they cant play their own class so they blame everyone else.

And instead of asking for a buff through constructive points they whine and whine and whine about others. Sign of a true loser.

Reevster

Yankee wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

Didn't the same guy just make a thread on Nerfing VR ? Just ignore this Nerf happy guy......

This is his fourth or fifth recent nerf casters thread. It is not about lifting any other build up, it is about everyone being as miserable and jealous as he seems to be.

Figures, can we get an ignore post button for repeat offenders....

Nuksuu

I have to confess my exasperation at seeing 'clothies' nuke massive areas with a bounce in their step whilst I lag behind sweating it out with 3 mobs in my head-to-toe heavy armour, sword and shield Templar.

However, I'm not going to complain about their gameplay or build; they are simply utilising the mechanics of the game as the like, which is everyone's right.

I enjoy the challenge of really having to be on the ball when I fight. I have to watch that 3rd mob or caster slightly out of sight for their power bash or cast and be ready to reflect it or block it. My fights last longer and are far more tactical. I like that element of my gameplay and as long as my focus remains largely on whether I am having fun and find this immersive, challenging and indicative of my playstyle...all well and good.

Taking on 3 people at once should be a challenge. The issue of what level of ease is taking place in nuking 20 enemies within 10 seconds in a large area is for the Devs to sort out. I can only control what is within my sphere of influence to control. Our posts can help to shape the external elements such as game development and I think that ZOS are demonstrating commitment to gradual, responsible change with their patches and proposed balances.

I won't be driven away just because a FoTM build dominates the game at any given time. I've been playing MMOs since 2002...just wait and see how the worm turns and how often over the coming years. This is just the beginning.

Doctoruniverse

The only problem with your "logic" is that you seem to forget that the player actually takes on a deadric prince yet right after in the "new world" you get stomped on by 3 rats.

Most players that arrive in veteran zones dont really like it because they feel the power they amassed during the "normal" playthrough just went out the window.

Drasn

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

The only problem with your "logic" is that you seem to forget that the player actually takes on a deadric prince yet right after in the "new world" you get stomped on by 3 rats.

Most players that arrive in veteran zones dont really like it because they feel the power they amassed during the "normal" playthrough just went out the window.

It wasn't that you were an all powerful bad ass. Lil' Mo was just that big of a chump.. all bark and no bite.

The rats? Well, they knocked you off your high horse and put you back in your place.

fancyleggs

no, i like killing all u nab sorcs, i went all stam nightblade - no one is prepared to counter close range nonmagic

Most_Awesome

twistedmonk wrote: »

The entire combat system is simply a race to out-dps the mob(s) attacking you. not a whole lot of skill to hold down block and spam instant cast spells.

and group content is just equipping staff, holding down block, spamming heals/ instant DDs and casting ultimates when they are up.

you can try do something else, but you wouldn't be as effective.

this is my just opinion, but I don't find it interesting, challenging or rewarding.

for those that do, I think that's awesome and those people are most likely not on the forums....

Ive run tests in Public dungeons (Vet rank) on my NB fighting 5+ mobs, Medium armour just doesnt cut it with stamina builds (which we all know already).

Heavy armour Ive made a build that can take on a mob and still live to tell the tail but just.

Then I have Light Armour+Staff build that I can tag every mob I can see so thats sometimes 12+ vet npc's and I come out at the end laughing.

Ive always played stealth classes (Swtor Operative, Gw2 Thief) I want to be able to play this game as a back stabbing killing machine, but its just not possible to do this and get anywhere if I do, i.e Light Armour build I get xp much much faster, and gain so much more loot simply by being able to kill mobs so much faster and easier

Alphashado

RGJACKETUKb16_ESO wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

The entire combat system is simply a race to out-dps the mob(s) attacking you. not a whole lot of skill to hold down block and spam instant cast spells.

and group content is just equipping staff, holding down block, spamming heals/ instant DDs and casting ultimates when they are up.

you can try do something else, but you wouldn't be as effective.

this is my just opinion, but I don't find it interesting, challenging or rewarding.

for those that do, I think that's awesome and those people are most likely not on the forums....

Ive run tests in Public dungeons (Vet rank) on my NB fighting 5+ mobs, Medium armour just doesnt cut it with stamina builds (which we all know already).

Heavy armour Ive made a build that can take on a mob and still live to tell the tail but just.

Then I have Light Armour+Staff build that I can tag every mob I can see so thats sometimes 12+ vet npc's and I come out at the end laughing.

Ive always played stealth classes (Swtor Operative, Gw2 Thief) I want to be able to play this game as a back stabbing killing machine, but its just not possible to do this and get anywhere if I do, i.e Light Armour build I get xp much much faster, and gain so much more loot simply by being able to kill mobs so much faster and easier

And that is why so many people think that staff builds are OP. When in fact they are not OP. Everything else is just ridiculously difficult.

born2beagator

Been a flood of "nerf naow!" threads lately. its depressing.

TheGrandAlliance

WEll if ESO==Harry Potter... that would explain the stupid/anti-climatic ending therefore of both realms...

HE, would shall not be named (for some made of plot device of course), IZ VERY AGGRULYZ!

born2beagator

btw, this guy has two "nerf casters" threads on this page of the forum. need an ignore for guys like this.

Fuxo

ZOS should address 2 things:
- nerf OP classes so they will appreciate support and grouping with templars
- buff templars so they are attractive enough for players to play them

Bryong9ub17_ESO

Oh look, another post about someone being a baby and crying Nerf.... They Nerf posts need to end and people need to stop acting like toddlers.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

first of all, i have a irrational hatred of harry potter, so im already angry, but ill try to use logic here

no class or playtype needs to be nerfed. people play mage style because they have the higest damage output, this is a role called dps

those that have heavy armor and focus on defense are called tanks

those that focus on healing skills, dealing little to no damage, are called healers

in every mmo, there is a oversaturation of dps focused character builds, tanks come after in popularity, then healers.

depending on the build, a tank can kill a dps or healer, and vice a vice a versa.

Zenzu

I think light armor isn't necessarily better for everything, just most everything. I think the armors could easily be rebalanced if you added magicka type bonuses to medium and heavy. And stamina/or weapon dmg bonuses to light armor.

Would certainly need to keep distinct role separation in passives, but currently if you use magicka as a primary stat its hard to go another way than light armor.

Either need to make all armors benefit from magicka in different ways or make weapon dmg and stamina abilities more useful.

Drasn

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

first of all, i have a irrational hatred of harry potter, so im already angry, but ill try to use logic here

no class or playtype needs to be nerfed. people play mage style because they have the higest damage output, this is a role called dps

those that have heavy armor and focus on defense are called tanks

those that focus on healing skills, dealing little to no damage, are called healers

in every mmo, there is a oversaturation of dps focused character builds, tanks come after in popularity, then healers.

depending on the build, a tank can kill a dps or healer, and vice a vice a versa.

Except in this game DK tanks are better off wearing light armor and DPSing while tanking. Sorc healers DPS while healing. Nightblades can pull off DPSing while either healing or tanking as well(but being the rogue archetype, I assume most want to actually use weapon abilities.) Of course everyone is wearing light armor and swinging a staff as this is going on.

This leaves Templars that can either half ass DPS or Heal or Tank. Templars can't multitask in groups on par with the other classes because of their lack of innate magicka regen. This simple fact alone means the Templar class needs reworked in some way, shape, or form. Even the light armor and staff set-up doesn't put them on par with the other classes.