Give us a good bar please.

Dusty5

From day 1 I thought the 5 action bar was very limiting. It seems to me that if we went to a 8-10 action bar set up players would have better options for pve/pvp combat. Instead of random nerfs from class to class return to the players what they have earned. NPC combat needs to be ramped up anyway dungeons/dolmen's are nothing but walk thru at hours of peak playtime when swarms of players hit the same instance. Dispite the fact the skill tree itself it also to short and needs to be expanded upon with only 4 upgrades/1 morph per skill. Players are hamstrung at 5 choices. So turn up the heat,give us our skills back with a 8 slot bar and let the mayhem return.

Asawasa

i agree adding one to three more skill slots to the bar wouldn't be a bad thing. at the same time if they added templates or someone made an addon for skill bar templates that would be even more awesome.

Dayv

I doubt it'll ever happen unless there's a way to make it work on consoles, sadly.

GrimCyclone

Dusty5 wrote: »

Give us a good bar please.

*reads a bit of post*

Oh thank god. I thought you were one of those RPers looking to hang around bars and pretend you're some kinda slick Han Solo type to pick up the ladies simultaneously going on a rapid weightloss plan once one takes the bait lastly shaving the full-grown neckbeard.

nerevarine1138

The bar is fine as-is. You have 12 slots total with weapon-swap, and that's more than enough to create unique and fun builds for playing.

The whole point of the actionbar design is to force you to make choices about what abilities you put there before charging in. It allows for much more diversity and group synergy when used correctly.

Orizuru

I'm not sure you want to try and make an argument that increasing the size of the toolbar will change how often people request a nerf for any given skill.

While I get that having more options on your toolbar can give you more/better ways to counter a given ability/skill, it has just as much potential to create more complex synergistic effects between skills that could make some skills even more OP than they are currently.

GeeYouWhy

Yes I need a good bar, because after a few hours of bugs and broken content I need a good drink.

Turelus

GrimCyclone wrote: »

Dusty5 wrote: »

Give us a good bar please.

*reads a bit of post*

Oh thank god. I thought you were one of those RPers looking to hang around bars and pretend you're some kinda slick Han Solo type to pick up the ladies simultaneously going ton a rapid weightloss plan once one takes the bait lastly shaving the full-grown neckbeard.

You haven't really met many roleplayers in real life have you? Just like gamers we come in all shapes, types and sizes. I mean, Vin Diesel fits your description so perfectly after all.

On the topic of more skills on the hotbar there was a rather lengthy discussion on this in general discussion last week.
Adding more skills makes some encounters easier for the game, the more skills you have ready to use any time means you can cover more situations where you need that one utility skill which is normally not important. Here is my post in the other thread where I outline that as an example.

Aoifesan

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The bar is fine as-is. You have 12 slots total with weapon-swap, and that's more than enough to create unique and fun builds for playing.

The whole point of the actionbar design is to force you to make choices about what abilities you put there before charging in. It allows for much more diversity and group synergy when used correctly.

And yet in Everquest or any other MMO ever I can pretty much map 1-0 and do that ten times for all the abilities I might use. That's 100 abilities / chat macros to make the game better.

Don't MAKE ME PLAY AN ALZHEIMERS PATIENT THAT CAN ONLY REMEMBER 12 of the 100s of things she / he knows at any one time.

It's counter intuitive BS.

nerevarine1138

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The bar is fine as-is. You have 12 slots total with weapon-swap, and that's more than enough to create unique and fun builds for playing.

The whole point of the actionbar design is to force you to make choices about what abilities you put there before charging in. It allows for much more diversity and group synergy when used correctly.

And yet in Everquest or any other MMO ever I can pretty much map 1-0 and do that ten times for all the abilities I might use. That's 100 abilities / chat macros to make the game better.

Don't MAKE ME PLAY AN ALZHEIMERS PATIENT THAT CAN ONLY REMEMBER 12 of the 100s of things she / he knows at any one time.

It's counter intuitive BS.

No, it's called tactics.

Games with 100+ buttons all around your screen inevitably just have you hit the same 4 buttons in the same order with another ability being used once in a blue moon. It homogenizes builds and takes all the strategy out of the game. Limited actionbars mean that your choices matter. Nothing to do with limited memory, consoles or any other ridiculous reasoning you've applied to a solid design choice.

Aoifesan

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The bar is fine as-is. You have 12 slots total with weapon-swap, and that's more than enough to create unique and fun builds for playing.

The whole point of the actionbar design is to force you to make choices about what abilities you put there before charging in. It allows for much more diversity and group synergy when used correctly.

No. No it doesn't. If you had ALL your abilities mapped and available at all times, then when an encounter CHANGED dynamically, and the boss stopped with Uppercuts and moved to Magic Nukes, you could activate the ability you have for that on bar 3 or 4 to compensate. You know like a REAL person.

Oh I haven't seen aikido in a long time, let me remember how to counter this armlock, oh wait, I can't as I'm busy being all Kendo at the moment. Defeated submit load aikido bar.

See how utterly ridiculous that is? I do.

darkopale

5 slots for skills are for *** casual players and 5 "other" skills with a forced weapon swap still really bad. Should be better to have directly 10/12 slots and swap weapon if you really need it to use precise skill.

Because some skills look like to be a "must have" skill, even if you want to have 2 different build, in fact you ll have maybe 2 or 3 different skills with your swap.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The bar is fine as-is. You have 12 slots total with weapon-swap, and that's more than enough to create unique and fun builds for playing.

The whole point of the actionbar design is to force you to make choices about what abilities you put there before charging in. It allows for much more diversity and group synergy when used correctly.

No. No it doesn't. If you had ALL your abilities mapped and available at all times, then when an encounter CHANGED dynamically, and the boss stopped with Uppercuts and moved to Magic Nukes, you could activate the ability you have for that on bar 3 or 4 to compensate. You know like a REAL person.

Oh I haven't seen aikido in a long time, let me remember how to counter this armlock, oh wait, I can't as I'm busy being all Kendo at the moment. Defeated submit load aikido bar.

See how utterly ridiculous that is? I do.

darkopale wrote: »

5 slots for skills are for *** casual players and 5 "other" skills with a forced weapon swap still really bad. Should be better to have directly 10/12 slots and swap weapon if you really need it to use precise skill.

Because some skills look like to be a "must have" skill, even if you want to have 2 different build, in fact you ll have maybe 2 or 3 different skills with your swap.

MOBA's have 4 abilites, 6 max. and those games are 10x more complex and are actaully taken seriously in e-sports...whereas mmo's are... oh yeah, a *** joke, right? right.

If you don't like it, leave?

Last I heard lotro had 10 ability slot bars. Why not, yaknow, go play, yaknow... if you like... yaknow...

ShedsHisTail

Pretty sure part of the design decision for the five-action bar is simple ergonomics.

Most MMOs with an action bar can be played in a point and click fashion with the mouse, but ESO doesn't have that. So you need to be able to access and execute all of your actions with the same set of fingers you're using for moving around and dodging. The further away from your fingers the keys are, the longer your reactions will be.

this, of course, means the game would have to be balanced around you having access to eight to ten actions at any given time, but those actions mapped to numbers 6-0 (or F1-F5) would require many gamers to have to move their hands off of their movement keys, inhibiting mobility in combat in a game where mobility in combat is a big deal.

Yes, I know there are tools out there which will allow you to map more actions in a more ergonomic fashion, but developers don't usually design a game around the assumption that their key demographic is interested in purchasing some manner of peripheral equipment just to play effectively.

lecarcajou_ESO

OK, I tend to agree that the limited number of skill buttons forces interesting and thoughtful choices, etc., but:

• Weapon swap is a bit too laggy as it is
• Please finally let us use key combinations for custom input

In a fight, <SHIFT> + one of the number keys would work much better for me (to swap weapons/skills) than a whole other keystroke. That's a personal preference, of course—but people have asked for custom key combos for other reasons, too.

Fleymark

Dayv wrote: »

I doubt it'll ever happen unless there's a way to make it work on consoles, sadly.

This.

But if they did why stop at 8? Give us all 10 or 12. Or 10 and the +/- keys for 2 acticatables.

SharranAes

Dayv wrote: »

I doubt it'll ever happen unless there's a way to make it work on consoles, sadly.

From what I've read, the console players won't even play with PC/Mac users, meaning that while it would be unfortunate for them, they would in no way be at a disadvantage from a PvP perspective (I.e:They would not face people with more abilities than they themselves have)

So, personally, I see no reason it should matter wheter or not they have the same number of abilities

Circuitous

lecarcajou_ESO wrote: »

OK, I tend to agree that the limited number of skill buttons forces interesting and thoughtful choices, etc., but:

• Weapon swap is a but too laggy as it is
• Please finally let us use key combinations for custom input

In a fight, <SHIFT> + one of the number keys would work much better for me (to swap weapons/skills) than a whole other keystroke. That's a personal preference, of course—but people have asked for custom key combos for other reasons, too.

The first is on the roadmap, goodness do I hope it'll be taken care of soon. I totally agree with the second, as well.

I use one of my mouse's side buttons for Slot 5, and the other for dodge. Works nicely for me. Not super relevant to this thread, though.

As for the five-ability limit, I get it. Make choices, sometimes hard ones, about what abilities to use. I think it's fair, and I acknowledge that it'd be hard to change, since slotted abilities affect skill line experience. I'd rather the current system just fully work as intended than replace it with the typical 10+ slot system.

Whisper292

I'd be happy with one or two more and a more versatile quick slot. I feel like too many would get to be too cumbersome, but I could definitely handle a couple more.

Crumpy

I wish we could make choices more easily with a bigger action bar.

ShedsHisTail

I think a toggle-able passive skill for each Class line would be cool.
Like if each Class had a set of three passives which could be easily swapped between with a button click and only have one active at a time.

Like, for Nightblade for example:

Assassination could have a passive "Adds X% Chance to Crit"
Shadow could have a passive "Avoids X% AOE Damage"
Siphon could have a passive "X% of damage returned as Health"

Or something along those lines. Yes, I know a couple of those closely match actions we already have, but I think making them Passive and easily swappable could make for some cool situational choices. That's about the only change to action bars I would make.

Cimos

Dont need a new bar or more slots on the same bar. This is not WoW or Rift. However, I think they need to do something about Pets/Magelight. Because these abilities disappear when you swap weapons, it requires you to put them on both bars, essentially using 2 skill slots. This is on top of the reduction to maximum magicka.

If there could be 1 "pet" or "magelight" bar that would be great. It would be the 1 skill slot that would be unaffected by weapon swap. I am not sure if this could apply to other classes besides sorc, but I think its a great idea.

Mablung

It is very limiting because the design is for a console controller. Quick slot and ultimate are your LB and RB or triggers, the 5 others are you typical xbox or ps controller.

This games primary design was for console. Not PC.

Mix

I like the limited set up that makes you choose based on the situation.

I would LOVE to have "remembered" bars that you could label like "heavy aoe" or "single target" dps bars - so you wouldn't have to constantly be in the skill menu between fights, but could just select one of your "saved" bars.

Cimos

Mix wrote: »

I like the limited set up that makes you choose based on the situation.

I would LOVE to have "remembered" bars that you could label like "heavy aoe" or "single target" dps bars - so you wouldn't have to constantly be in the skill menu between fights, but could just select one of your "saved" bars.

They should be able to make an addon for this.

lecarcajou_ESO

Well...

Asmundbjorn

I Agree, what I find REALLY annoying is that my Daedric summoner toon has to have these in BOTH slots to use them. Otherwise if I change between weapons my summoned Daedra disappear !!!! seems wholly unfair as effectively I'm losing 2 more slots .

Orizuru

Dayv wrote: »

I doubt it'll ever happen unless there's a way to make it work on consoles, sadly.

I don't buy into this line of reasoning. FF14 ARR puts PC and console players on the same server and uses action bars in the same way that WoW does. While the console version of the game's UI may not be perfect, it works well enough for console players to contribute in end-game raiding just as effectively as the PC users.

Fuxo

Perhaps more bar slots feature is reserved for future cash shop.

ShedsHisTail

Asmundbjorn wrote: »

I Agree, what I find REALLY annoying is that my Daedric summoner toon has to have these in BOTH slots to use them. Otherwise if I change between weapons my summoned Daedra disappear !!!! seems wholly unfair as effectively I'm losing 2 more slots .

See, and if you just had a Passive toggle that maintained pet summons even when swapping bars, that'd be sweet, right?

FrauPerchta

I think we should be able to slot the same weapon for both bars. And when the same weapon is double slotted the second bar stays up as well as the first so you can use both bars at same time.

It would add a new decision to your game strategy. Do you want to use to one weapon,one ultimate and 10 hotkeys at the same time or do you want to use two different weapons, 2 different ultimates and only have the use of 5 hotkeys at once.