Builds/armours - Players boxed in - Devs please read! Light armour, the only viable...

silvan9johb16_ESO

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

Not to mention the stats it's only viable to have a magicka build as of now or you will nerf your self and not bring enough damage.

Lets take Nightblade fx, why should the class skills be bases on Magicka and not Stamina? Why have them use both spell crit AND melee crit? makes no sense, one would think that nightblades would use medium armour and stamina, but no, to get the most out of your nightblade you really need to go light armour and magicka and go with 2 crit pools. That is so messed up. There is no reason for people to go medium or heavy, that goes for all classes, as light armour will provide everything, you can tank in it, the only viable option for heavy dps, and heal. You have boxed the players in to only use 1 - 2 out of 40 options.

I don't like to have to run around with same build and setup as everyone else, just because that's the only viable.

To recap: 1 - 2 viable builds, light armour the only usefull. Nightblade 2 crit pools and not medium armour or stamina, but light armour and magicka. Should really change the class skills to use stamina for atleast nightblade. (And no i dont have a nightblade, thought about it, untill i saw the setup they had/required)

I really hope the devs are reading this part of the forum. It's a serious problem that should get addressed.

Gillysan

I haven't played NB that much but I was surprised that the skill lines use magicka. You only dip into Stamina with the choice of weapon. Someone with a long history in the Beta's and still playing, can you explain this to the rest of us?

Goibot

The problem with this is they way they are going about the balancing act. If they view that heavy and medium builds are not as useful as light they will take the easy path. Instead of rebuilding stamina lines and buffing medium and heavy they will nerf light armor.

MasterSpatula

Goibot wrote: »

The problem with this is they way they are going about the balancing act. If they view that heavy and medium builds are not as useful as light they will take the easy path. Instead of rebuilding stamina lines and buffing medium and heavy they will nerf light armor.

Yeeeep. I'd hoped they'd show more wisdom than every single other MMO ever, but so far their reaction to imbalance has consistently been to reduce the viability (and fun) of what works rather than to increase the viability (and fun) of what isn't working.

On the bright side, the "If I'm not dying all the time, it's a bad game and I'm bored" crowd must be pleased as punch.

Dayel

I have a NB who was wearing medium armor and dual melee weapons. He died a lot. Now, he is wearing all light armor with a destruction staff, with the dual wield ones on the second tier but only as a reserve. He is much happier now, LOL.

Gillysan

EVE Online devs have the best balancing process. They a page just for their blogs and they give you detailed blogs on what they are working on, including graphs, charts, and the math. They give you this info weeks and sometimes months in advance. They add a link to a forum post where the players can chime in. Then they put it on the test server and let the players try it out. OFC not that many test stuff, this takes time after all, but the players are free to test it, post it on youtube, and Twitch TV is integrated into the game client for ease of streaming. This is not an addon, it's part of the game client.

After a patch is put out, they have follow up blogs that includes data collected from player use they monitor. More graphs, more maths. More feedback and maybe a little more tweaking.

Now EVE is over 10 y.o. so rebalancing is a long process. The current path was outlined 2 years ago and they are still working on it. Can't beat the maths and graphs they use.

rfpalmerb16_ESO

DON'T put NB abilities on the stamina bar -- stamina cost are SO high and stamina is already tapped by dodging etc that putting NB class abilities on stamina would, in all reality, kill the class entirely.

Loco_Mofo

This is a game breaker for me.

I initially thought when I started playing during beta that the game had so many build possibilities, how naive...

Now I'm left with the realisation that my NB is really only effective late game using light armor and staves and even then it's DPS is nowhere near the other classes.

How can Zeni fix this without a major redo?

Apom

Actually Zeni posted something like 15billion possible combinations. Unfortunately only 3 matter. Templar Healer, DK DPS, Sorc DPS. both dps running the same 2 skills.

silvan9johb16_ESO

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

DON'T put NB abilities on the stamina bar -- stamina cost are SO high and stamina is already tapped by dodging etc that putting NB class abilities on stamina would, in all reality, kill the class entirely.

That's the whole point. Hence why magicka build is the only viable... Either you did not understand the issue or refuse to see the problem. Magicka and light armour should NOT be the only viable option to go, it should get fixed so you can use other armour types and builds, and still be viable.

But thank you for proving my point.

silvan9johb16_ESO

Apom wrote: »

Actually Zeni posted something like 15billion possible combinations. Unfortunately only 3 matter. Templar Healer, DK DPS, Sorc DPS. both dps running the same 2 skills.

Indeed, such versatility.

silvan9johb16_ESO

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

This is a game breaker for me.

I initially thought when I started playing during beta that the game had so many build possibilities, how naive...

Now I'm left with the realisation that my NB is really only effective late game using light armor and staves and even then it's DPS is nowhere near the other classes.

How can Zeni fix this without a major redo?

Yeah, one would think that Nightblade used dual wield and medium armour, that's at least how i would play if i had one. But as of now going with that build i'm just as useful as an infant, and that, in reality goes for all classes as of now.

Haxer

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

rfpalmerb16_ESO

Haxer wrote: »

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

You're joking right?

pmn100b16_ESO

Haxer wrote: »

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

Well I'm vr5 NB with full light armour. Still dual wielding without too much issue, don't know how long that will last though. Leveled destro staff waiting in reserve.

silvan9johb16_ESO

Haxer wrote: »

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

Wauw, with that comment, one can only assume you never played. No heavy armour is not required in VR zones, heavy armour and medium armour for that matter, is NOT required anywhere... Everyone, everywhere is running light, as that as of now is the only viable option, unless you want to bore the enemies to death, in which case, yes you would go down fast. Which is why people use light Armour and Destro staff, to kill them fast enough. And that my friend is the whole problem. Medium armour and stamina build should be JUST as viable as a light and magicka build..

kirnmalidus

Haxer wrote: »

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

Ummm… what? You can hit the soft cap in light armor. So, no.

zaria

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Haxer wrote: »

I have to assume that this entire discussion is for pre-VR, as VR requires pretty much every class use heavy armor lest they like getting 1-shotted. Even sorc's wear heavy in VR. Anyways, sorry just had to make sure we clarified as some people here are either not VR, or don't play a NB. Carry on!

Ummm… what? You can hit the soft cap in light armor. So, no.

You hit soft cap for magic regen with unencanted white light armor anyway, more fun is that most of the good dropped sets have locked magic regen enchant.

orablast

I'd have to agree with this. I've spent the last month in VR content as a NB wearing medium armor with bow & DW. I can make it work for the most part. I feel like I rip single & double targets to shreds. I can even handle 3 packs of melee, however, the caster & healing groups is a fight to the death. One slip up and I'm dead.

My biggest issue is that all of our best CCs use a ton of magic. So there is no room for error when dealing with 3 packs of casters. This is leading me to reconsider going down the light armor + destro staff, so I can start having fun again.

Wifeaggro13

silvan9johb16_ESO wrote: »

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

Not to mention the stats it's only viable to have a magicka build as of now or you will nerf your self and not bring enough damage.

Lets take Nightblade fx, why should the class skills be bases on Magicka and not Stamina? Why have them use both spell crit AND melee crit? makes no sense, one would think that nightblades would use medium armour and stamina, but no, to get the most out of your nightblade you really need to go light armour and magicka and go with 2 crit pools. That is so messed up. There is no reason for people to go medium or heavy, that goes for all classes, as light armour will provide everything, you can tank in it, the only viable option for heavy dps, and heal. You have boxed the players in to only use 1 - 2 out of 40 options.

I don't like to have to run around with same build and setup as everyone else, just because that's the only viable.

To recap: 1 - 2 viable builds, light armour the only usefull. Nightblade 2 crit pools and not medium armour or stamina, but light armour and magicka. Should really change the class skills to use stamina for atleast nightblade. (And no i dont have a nightblade, thought about it, untill i saw the setup they had/required)

I really hope the devs are reading this part of the forum. It's a serious problem that should get addressed.

We have been saying this for damn near a month now as well as melee stamina builds being completely unviable. Zos's answer was to nerf the only actual somewhat funtioning class because a light armor ulti build exploit was over powered in the DK.
90 % of the people whinning never even touched the end game PVE. they have never had to deal with the *** trash clearing of zones with only a couple tools to really achieve success . As it stands now the lack of direction in end game and the complete clueless ness of the dev team to realize it was very few abilites that needed nerfing and really a overhaul of stamina builds and a complete increase across the board on melee and Night blade abilities would have solved the problems.Slight tweaks to templar but the mojority would have been form making weapon builds in medium or light viable would have solved most templar issues.
Unfortunately these guys went the other way at a time when a wow expansion is looming and that cheap rip off wow clone wildstar dropped. It does not bode well for retention past this 90 day mark. up until this point i had really strong hopes for retention. With that said i am not going anywhere i am tired of game hopping , ive been around the block enough times to know its a minimum of six months before any dev team will have a handle on balance and end game direction.
The only advice i would have for them at this point would be to offer Scott Hartsman , or Craig morrison some big bucks to help them redirect the state of ESO's future. Both of those guys have a wealth of knowledge on how to re assemble broken concepts after launch.

Food4Thought

I'm a casual player and not in VR yet. But thanks for the insite guys. It gives me some things to consider before I get to the point of no return.

Fyrakin

silvan9johb16_ESO wrote: »

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

Not to mention the stats it's only viable to have a magicka build as of now or you will nerf your self and not bring enough damage.

Lets take Nightblade fx, why should the class skills be bases on Magicka and not Stamina? Why have them use both spell crit AND melee crit? makes no sense, one would think that nightblades would use medium armour and stamina, but no, to get the most out of your nightblade you really need to go light armour and magicka and go with 2 crit pools. That is so messed up. There is no reason for people to go medium or heavy, that goes for all classes, as light armour will provide everything, you can tank in it, the only viable option for heavy dps, and heal. You have boxed the players in to only use 1 - 2 out of 40 options.

I don't like to have to run around with same build and setup as everyone else, just because that's the only viable.

To recap: 1 - 2 viable builds, light armour the only usefull. Nightblade 2 crit pools and not medium armour or stamina, but light armour and magicka. Should really change the class skills to use stamina for atleast nightblade. (And no i dont have a nightblade, thought about it, untill i saw the setup they had/required)

I really hope the devs are reading this part of the forum. It's a serious problem that should get addressed.

Be carefull what you wish for, interrupts and rollup/dodge etc use stamina, if your skills use that you'd be screwed more.

Mykah

Just make medium armor give Melee AND Spell crit rating.

silvan9johb16_ESO

Mykah wrote: »

Just make medium armor give Melee AND Spell crit rating.

A simple solution. But base stats would still need to be buffed to get in line with Light Armour.

Kewljag_66_ESO

Medium armor NBs have really good single target damage, and can take out anyone with an opening sneak attack. The class melee abilities are actually based off of weapon crit, which is a good thing when using medium armor. I just dont think people understand how to play a melee NB. You have to block and interupt at the right times.

When i use suprise attack (40% armor debuff, Followed by flurry it does alot of damage. I can tear threw most people, even higher vet rank DKS. you just have to be ready to counter abilities, like rolling out of their standard. use death stroke at the right time and you will beat anyone.

My NB in medium armor with duel daggers does more single target damage than just about anyone else. Excluding sorcs, shard / soul attack combo but that is an ultimate

Kewljag_66_ESO

silvan9johb16_ESO wrote: »

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

Not to mention the stats it's only viable to have a magicka build as of now or you will nerf your self and not bring enough damage.

Lets take Nightblade fx, why should the class skills be bases on Magicka and not Stamina? Why have them use both spell crit AND melee crit? makes no sense, one would think that nightblades would use medium armour and stamina, but no, to get the most out of your nightblade you really need to go light armour and magicka and go with 2 crit pools. That is so messed up. There is no reason for people to go medium or heavy, that goes for all classes, as light armour will provide everything, you can tank in it, the only viable option for heavy dps, and heal. You have boxed the players in to only use 1 - 2 out of 40 options.

I don't like to have to run around with same build and setup as everyone else, just because that's the only viable.

To recap: 1 - 2 viable builds, light armour the only usefull. Nightblade 2 crit pools and not medium armour or stamina, but light armour and magicka. Should really change the class skills to use stamina for atleast nightblade. (And no i dont have a nightblade, thought about it, untill i saw the setup they had/required)

I really hope the devs are reading this part of the forum. It's a serious problem that should get addressed.

NB class melee abilities like teleport strike and vielled strike are magika based BUT work off of weapon crit. This is a good thing because all your melee crit is benefitting from medium armors bonuses. AND because of this you only need to stack weapon crit to effect ALL your melee abilities. Duel weillding medium armor NBs have amazing single target damage, especially when you factor in armor debuffing abilities

And I tear apart all those enemy players running around in light armor with staffs. if i open with sneak attack its no contest. But survivability is another thing, as a melee NB you need to block and dodge critical atatcks, you need to interupt at teh right time and knock down targets that are off balance with your heavy attacks.

I have also found that enchanting your jewelry with +armor and +magic resist helps surivability greatly

zgrssd

silvan9johb16_ESO wrote: »

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

This is exactly why they are nerving mana based (class) abiltiies. They are simply more powerfull then planned, making stamina builds uncompetitive.
So they already know and are working on fixing it.

Once that is done they can properly balance the PvE content.

Reykice

Stop feeding us lies...

Properly built a NB with DW can do very nice DPS but most have no clue how and what to build.

heitor

The thing is, if they change the NB skills to consume stamina, the entire class will suffer from it. Because, dodge roll consumes stamina, sprinting/sneaking consumes stamina, blocking and bashing consumes stamina. Just to react in time and be engaged in the combat, you are being punished by that if you use any stamina build. That´s why I think it will destroy the nightblades. Let the class skills consume magicka.

My suggestion is to remove the stamina costs to Shield Bash, Blocking and Dodge roll and implement a cooldown for like 3 seconds to each of that abilities, then buff up the 2H skill line weapons, because IMO it is terrible that skill line. I said it before in other posts, but they shouldn´t have a class system here either... But all this is around of my opinion and my suggestions.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Everybody's Sorcerers Online does not care about heavy armor, melee, or anything to do with tanking.

silvan9johb16_ESO

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

silvan9johb16_ESO wrote: »

As of now, it's only really viable to go full light being a DPS. You see everyone running around with Destro staff and light armour, just because that is the most effective dps both AoE and ST.

Not to mention the stats it's only viable to have a magicka build as of now or you will nerf your self and not bring enough damage.

Lets take Nightblade fx, why should the class skills be bases on Magicka and not Stamina? Why have them use both spell crit AND melee crit? makes no sense, one would think that nightblades would use medium armour and stamina, but no, to get the most out of your nightblade you really need to go light armour and magicka and go with 2 crit pools. That is so messed up. There is no reason for people to go medium or heavy, that goes for all classes, as light armour will provide everything, you can tank in it, the only viable option for heavy dps, and heal. You have boxed the players in to only use 1 - 2 out of 40 options.

I don't like to have to run around with same build and setup as everyone else, just because that's the only viable.

To recap: 1 - 2 viable builds, light armour the only usefull. Nightblade 2 crit pools and not medium armour or stamina, but light armour and magicka. Should really change the class skills to use stamina for atleast nightblade. (And no i dont have a nightblade, thought about it, untill i saw the setup they had/required)

I really hope the devs are reading this part of the forum. It's a serious problem that should get addressed.

NB class melee abilities like teleport strike and vielled strike are magika based BUT work off of weapon crit. This is a good thing because all your melee crit is benefitting from medium armors bonuses. AND because of this you only need to stack weapon crit to effect ALL your melee abilities. Duel weillding medium armor NBs have amazing single target damage, especially when you factor in armor debuffing abilities

And I tear apart all those enemy players running around in light armor with staffs. if i open with sneak attack its no contest. But survivability is another thing, as a melee NB you need to block and dodge critical atatcks, you need to interupt at teh right time and knock down targets that are off balance with your heavy attacks.

I have also found that enchanting your jewelry with +armor and +magic resist helps surivability greatly

Yes but as you said, they use magicka, and to be viable with magicka you need light armour for the reduced spell cost and magicka regeneration and so forth. In a long boss fight you will struggle with your sustained dps when wearing medium. Or tell me how to counter that? Because all the stamina benefits from medium is redundant when you use magicka bases skills. The only viable thing is the crit.