Mercenary Exploit

zazamalek

I noticed there was no mention of the mercenary exploit in the 1.1.3 patch notes. Are ZOS aware of this issue? Last night was my first time seeing it in EU (DC Chrysamere were using it).

I don't know how to trigger/use the exploit, but what you get is an army of invincible mercenaries that cannot be targeted.

ZOS, please, if this isn't going to be fixed for 1.1.3 could you maybe disable mercenaries outright (for 1.1.3), at least until you can find some more concrete information on how the exploit works? PvP in EU is sitting at 1/3 bars for nearly all the campaigns and these exploits are certainly not helping maintain the population.

To anyone facing this we found that the sorc silence bubbles sometimes still stun them, so with some careful coordination you can keep them stunlocked.

SwampRaider

the funny thing about the "exploit" is that even those who don't know how to do the "exploit" still create bugged mages. meaning that no matter what, its still hard to avoid. Virtually every server i have guested into uses mages. hundreds-thousands of players spam mercs. It is a part of PVP. It is how a small band of players defends keeps against a large amount of players.

I have had people whisper me saying that they are reporting my pvp group for exploiting mages, when half of us dont even know how to do it.. lol.

and those same enemies who report us, DO THE SAME THING to us. so we have to agree that every side uses it, just like every side used caltrops before it gets fixed today

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

I don't think this is something that the player using the merc contract has any control over, I think it's just a bug. If I had to guess, I bet it comes from the mage porting to do it's aoe attack outside of it's reset range. But who knows, and in any case, it really needs to be fixed asap.

Worstluck

Annnnnnoying bug, but I don't think there's a way to make them do that. It happens when they get pulled and just get bugged out. Can't tell you how annoying these things are as a stealth character (stuck in combat constantly). Less mercs pls and remove their superpowers...

leewells

zazamalek wrote: »

I noticed there was no mention of the mercenary exploit in the 1.1.3 patch notes. Are ZOS aware of this issue? Last night was my first time seeing it in EU (DC Chrysamere were using it).

I don't know how to trigger/use the exploit, but what you get is an army of invincible mercenaries that cannot be targeted.

ZOS, please, if this isn't going to be fixed for 1.1.3 could you maybe disable mercenaries outright (for 1.1.3), at least until you can find some more concrete information on how the exploit works? PvP in EU is sitting at 1/3 bars for nearly all the campaigns and these exploits are certainly not helping maintain the population.

To anyone facing this we found that the sorc silence bubbles sometimes still stun them, so with some careful coordination you can keep them stunlocked.

I'm not entirely sure this is an exploit. I've laid down mercenaries when outnumbered and have had other players send me a tell from the other side threatening to report me for exploiting. I didn't do anything special, I have no clue what causes a mercenary to bug out and become untargetable, it just seems to happen "randomly".

In comparison -- you can't seem to control when there will be or will not be a bugged mercenary, but you can sure as hell control where you place caltrops. #my2cents

Edit: I would actually fall out of my chair laughing, and break my neck if I found this "exploit" occurs when idiots place caltrops down to exploit them.

bitaken

The mercs are too tough but this problem can be resolved by the attacking force.

A) If you are the target of the merc that is not target-able then all you have to do is get him to reset by leaving his agro range.

This issue is a bug - and should be dealt with by ZOS not the players. However, there is a player based work around. Use it.

It's not "exploited" by players that the mages leave their agro range using their Blink-PBAE combo and then have an agro range that is too large and should have reset but did not because their agro target is in range.

Get out of their range - reset them - and kill them. That's what you can do as a player - but ZOS needs to fix this - among many other things - on their end.

Krinaman

Agreed, simply remove them from the game till you can fix them.

zazamalek

Thanks for the workaround.

Still, that extra time afforded by dodging godmode mercs may be enough time for the enemy zoneblob to come get you. I still have this opinion:

Krinaman wrote: »

Agreed, simply remove them from the game till you can fix them.

I have used them in the past and do appreciate their help in dire situations, but I would rather not inadvertently ruin other players' experiences.

bitaken

Demoting the mercs to VR 1 with less HP and damage seems a good idea regardless. Being able to place hero level players in a keep and spamming them till out just seems ridonkulous to me.

CaptainSilverbrow

Let me articulate a bit on the situation at least as far as concerns Chrysamere (though, I'm NA) -- the EP players and rank PvP guilds on that server refuse to employ game mechanics while they're bugged (including caltrops). As such, the DC have been able to hold outposts against about ten to fifteen EP players at any time by just sending a guy or two out with a bag full of mercs (which he'll intentionally exploit to make invincible) to either unload behind the inner postern door to flood out when we tear it down, or just outright sneak about the battlefield and spawn them amongst us. But the invincibility exploit isn't the only concern... there need to be limits on how many of these things are availed to a player.

(I don't know how to use the image posting service, couldn't get it to work; warning, very low resolution)

http://puu.sh/9bOYl/72bae0545d.BMP

That was an outpost, and there are more on the other side. The same player spawned even more at the keep my group besieged.

zenmogwai

The enemies are always 'cheaters' so I don't know if I am making this up or not. However, the opposing faction on my server seems to have an awful lot of 'accidentally' bugged out mercs.

I saw a guy yesterday interrupt himself several times while summoning (start summoning, then move, start summoning, then move) until he finally started letting the process complete. Before we killed him all the mercs he summoned were bugged out.

Somebody in group said that he was waiting until he was in combat because summoning them while you are in combat is how you bug them out. I have no idea if this is true. I don't want to help people cheat but getting information out there might help expose the real issue.

bitaken

Been in plenty of keep defenses where they bug out. Been in plenty of keep offenses where they bug out. I would like to see the "forced bugout" occur and then have someone bug report that.

Regardless - hired mercs should be VR 1 - this was a bad idea to allow VR 5 uber mercs in the game int he first place. VR 1 surge of mercs would allow lower number defenders to cause targeting problems, AE problems and a chance to defend at key moments of a defense. VR 5 mages are just a chance for players to overwhelm the enemy at certain points of a siege and really not a good idea.

MatthiasCorvinu

I was in Chrysamere (NA) last night, Feanor Eldarin for those who might be around, and it was only through sheer tenacity and numbers that we were able to take keeps from 2 defenders using these mercs. Outside of the exploit/bug, they are indeed a bit too strong for their own good.

SwampRaider

MatthiasCorvinu wrote: »

I was in Chrysamere (NA) last night, Feanor Eldarin for those who might be around, and it was only through sheer tenacity and numbers that we were able to take keeps from 2 defenders using these mercs. Outside of the exploit/bug, they are indeed a bit too strong for their own good.

and now you crowned an Emperor. Good job.

As one of the group leaders of the DC on Chrysamere NA, I welcomed that two guys were spamming mercs. Why? because we only had 1 inner keep left and 7 people left online. We figured that EP plays longer than we do at nights and will night cap keeps anyway so we figured we should have some fun.

I talked with my group countless times telling them to play "fair", but since you had almost all the keeps in the inner circle they said no.

So it took you guys 7 hours to crown an emp rather than 1 hour.

Do I Applaud bugged merc spamming? NO

Can I control players on my side who use it? NO

Do I want my group to pull out all the tricks they can to hold on to one keep in the inner circle? YES

Think of how rewarding it felt for you guys though, to stick it out and take 1 keep and finally crown that dangerous single target Sorc of yours.

Side Note: Woke up this morning, and my guild bank has 80 mercs in it. LOL

zazamalek

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

the EP players and rank PvP guilds on that server refuse to employ game mechanics while they're bugged

I explicitly disallow bugged abilities when I'm raidleading (and will now disallow mercs). It's awesome to hear that EP is dedicated to fighting fairly your side of the planet - I wish I could get our PUGs to enter into this mentality but PUGs are PUGs.

We've had the same problems as you with DC. Vamps, caltrops, mercs, the works - as soon as an exploit is made public knowledge they use it (I'm not sure if they all use it, but we haven't fought at keeps for a long while without some exploits making an appearance). AD seem to be on the same page as EP and tend to not exploit, so guess who controls the entire map...

Fighting fairly under these conditions make us better fighters in the long run, when they don't have exploits to fall back on they are going to find themselves in a sore spot.

SwampRaider

zazamalek wrote: »

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

the EP players and rank PvP guilds on that server refuse to employ game mechanics while they're bugged

I explicitly disallow bugged abilities when I'm raidleading (and will now disallow mercs). It's awesome to hear that EP is dedicated to fighting fairly your side of the planet - I wish I could get our PUGs to enter into this mentality but PUGs are PUGs.

We've had the same problems as you with DC. Vamps, caltrops, mercs, the works - as soon as an exploit is made public knowledge they use it (I'm not sure if they all use it, but we haven't fought at keeps for a long while without some exploits making an appearance). AD seem to be on the same page as EP and tend to not exploit, so guess who controls the entire map...

Fighting fairly under these conditions make us better fighters in the long run, when they don't have exploits to fall back on they are going to find themselves in a sore spot.

DC fights fair on Chrysamere NA, cept for last night which was merc spam heaven. AD on Chrysamere NA is way worse though. You name an exploit, they'll do it just so they can farm emperor for their Craglorn trials guild.

Starshadw

SwampRaider wrote: »

so we have to agree that every side uses it, just like every side used caltrops before it gets fixed today

This is not true. There are many of us who have flat-out not used caltrops or mercs once we became aware of the exploit - precisely because we wanted to be above reproach. Is it hurting our ability to win fights? Absolutely. But it's the right thing to do, and so, that's what we do.

Helspyre

Regardless of bugs, can we just get rid of this PvE additive? Pretty please?

zazamalek

SwampRaider wrote: »

DC fights fair on Chrysamere NA, cept for last night which was merc spam heaven. AD on Chrysamere NA is way worse though. You name an exploit, they'll do it just so they can farm emperor for their Craglorn trials guild.

Could you have a chat with our DC? I'll get our AD to chat to yours.

Alomar

The mages that are bugged are the ones set up in combat, the vast majority of them used in Wabbajack (US) are used purposefully by players exploiting.

Liquid_Time

Oh I spam the heck out of them when I am trying to defend a keep solo. By spam I mean 2-3 usually. That is enough to break some health bars enough that I can pick off the runners and repeat. Now as far them bugging out and becoming un-attackable.. Happens to everyone, so I simply ignore that fact until it gets fixed.

The problem with this bug is that it seems to be hard to recreate, which I bet makes it even harder to identify a fix.

(least I cannot recreate it that is)