Should the game be more cosmetic?

Tootall2186

Games like eso that often say "play as you want!", usually disappoint a lot of players. Being that, in the end, you simply cannot play as you want if you want to play a class successfully. I've seen multiple threads and discussions about class imbalance and gear imbalance. So what are some options we can possibly partake in to see this game turned around? I wanted to start a poll on people thoughts on where they think this game is heading, and if they think they'll get bored since there's nothing new to really do or achieve later on. So would you...

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

I would love it if they removed the restrictions of classes and armor/weapons. If I want to wear heavy armor, why do I have to take a huge hit to my magicka proficiency? Why if I'm using a resto staff can I not use it like a Bo staff and beat the crap out of something with a two handed skill like uppercut? And why can't I use a 2 handed sword like a staff and cast my spells through it? I can make flame appear from my hands but I can't channel a spell through any weapon? Why if I want to heal do I have to use a resto staff? Why can't I use a mace and shield and still have the same resto staff skill options?

Wouldn't this game be so much more if we could all have the option to have every classes current skills at our disposal? I can already think of some amazing healing builds I could make with a combo of all 4 of the current classes. It would open up so many more options for builds and play styles.

Truno

You can already play the way you want. Yea some might be more efficient than others but being out pvping I see dks using bows, nightblades being mages, sorcs being tanks. You have plenty of options. You can be a heavy dk mage if you want but it makes sense that you wearing heavy armor so wont be as proficient with your magic. There still have to be limits we cant have everyone tunning around with a dk standard and a nb stealth.

Edit. Phone auto correct wrongly multiple times -_-

Blackwidow

Don't have an opinion

There should have never been classes.

TES is a skill based game. There are skill based MMOs.

Yes, there were class titles in TES, but any character could always use any skill in the game.

In ESO, that is simply not true.

Preachan

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Yeah... I would like it better without the classes.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Truno wrote: »

You can already play the way you want. Yea some might be more efficient than others but being out pvping I see dks using bows, nightblades being mages, sorcs being tanks. You have plenty of options. You can be a heavy dk mage if you want but it makes sense that you wearing heavy armor so wont be as proficient with your magic. There still have to be limits we cant have everyone tunning around with a dk standard and a nb stealth.

Edit. Phone auto correct wrongly multiple times -_-

Yes I know that you can basically play how you want. But if we could all choose any skill we wanted from any class and any weapon and armor our build options ten fold. Why do we have to have limitations on our builds? Why can't we have every option at our disposal?

Enkil

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Blackwidow wrote: »

There should have never been classes.

TES is a skill based game. There are skill based MMOs.

Yes, there were class titles in TES, but any character could always use any skill in the game.

In ESO, that is simply not true.

Exactly. The devs could have easily made a classless MMO using all the traditional Elder Scrolls skill lines and allow us to combine as we see fit.

Fire/Lightning/Frost balls ... Destruction School

Heals & Buffs... Restoration School

Daedric servants ... Conjuration school

Stealth & Backstabbing... Sneak skill

etc.

Anvos

Don't have an opinion

None of the above, though to balance armor better I'm wondering, what if they implemented a system where every piece of light armor lowered your soft armor cap and every piece of heavy armor raised your soft armor cap. (Medium would retain neutrality)

Requiemslove

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

The above, kind of like things are in Skyrim only implemented in a MMO world. There has to be limitations, like as example you are not as proficient at magic, while wearing heavy armour, but I feel the game would benefit if you DID have specific passive abilities if you do wear heavy armour with magic skill use, the same can be said for all armour types. As it is, you choose a specific class and it seems your options are limited due to the class. That is not the ES way of recent years.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Requiemslove wrote: »

The above, kind of like things are in Skyrim only implemented in a MMO world. There has to be limitations, like as example you are not as proficient at magic, while wearing heavy armour, but I feel the game would benefit if you DID have specific passive abilities if you do wear heavy armour with magic skill use, the same can be said for all armour types. As it is, you choose a specific class and it seems your options are limited due to the class. That is not the ES way of recent years.

Exactly. Which is one of the main things I dislike atm. I love healing but hate that I have to wear light armor to be efficient at it with magicka lines. I also hate how it seems certain set only drop at x level and if I'm vr12, and I want a set from vr6, I'm losing out on the stats from the gear from the vr12 level just to attain the set bonus from the vr6 gear. Gear sets should be constant and either level with your character OR drop/be "refitted" for your current level by said profession.

Uviryth

After reading all this comments, I´m sooooo glad Bethesda/Zenimax doesnt listen to you guys.
Sooooooooo glad

Rocksteady

Like to see the game progress on its current path

Preachan wrote: »

Yeah... I would like it better without the classes.

Then there would be 1 OP build instead of 4. Everybody would have the best ability from each of the classes and the best ultimate and run around(likely a max magicka build just like now) spamming the same stuff over and over again.

There will ALWAYS be a "best" or "OP" setup for each class no matter what they do unless they dumb down the game to the point where all the abilities are the same with different names, and I don't think anybody wants that.

My advice to you people that want "balance" is to ignore the people that won't take you for a group(PUGs suck anyway) or ignore the people that might laugh at you for your build. Make a build that you enjoy without looking at the cookie cutter builds people throw at you. Then make some friends(not everybody speed runs through dungeons and belittles NBs and Templars) and play the game for fun.

Preachan

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Rocksteady wrote: »

Then there would be 1 OP build instead of 4. Everybody would have the best ability from each of the classes and the best ultimate and run around(likely a max magicka build just like now) spamming the same stuff over and over again.

Hm, so I must have dreamed of TSW then...
Sure, pistol shotgun seems to be the cookie cutter build. But all other weapon combinations are used as well, there aren't classes to limit players, and guess what: it works.

Besides, if players want to run around with the same lame build, let them!
Still more interesting than everyone running around with the same sorc build.

Less limitations would be better for an TES.

Uviryth

Dont compare the TSW-Skillsystem to this. Its muuuuch more complex than ESOs. In ESO, there are no good synergies, no enemies immune to certain and vulnerable to other damage, no buffs and debuffs that build onto each other.

In TSW it works, but ESO is way to simple to pull something like the oneclass-system off.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Of course ppl will find a few single optimal builds for each specific role. But that's going to be a highly debated topic at what actually is the best. Since we would be able to use any skill from any class and weapon and armor no matter what role we wanted to fill. The possibilities could be much greater than they are now.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Uviryth wrote: »

Dont compare the TSW-Skillsystem to this. Its muuuuch more complex than ESOs. In ESO, there are no good synergies, no enemies immune to certain and vulnerable to other damage, no buffs and debuffs that build onto each other.

In TSW it works, but ESO is way to simple to pull something like the oneclass-system off.

But couldn't something like this still be done? Why can't they totally rework mobs and skills etc to be more complex and have more synergy?

I love eso but it has it's many short falls. Which I hope can and will be fixed. If not, I'll enjoy my time in eso until Eqnext comes out and see how that turns out when it drops.

Preachan

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Uviryth wrote: »

Dont compare the TSW-Skillsystem to this. Its muuuuch more complex than ESOs. In ESO, there are no good synergies, no enemies immune to certain and vulnerable to other damage, no buffs and debuffs that build onto each other.

In TSW it works, but ESO is way to simple to pull something like the oneclass-system off.

I agree on this... I hoped in ESO for a deeper, more complex and difficult system.

But I don't think they'll change towards that direction with all that folks complaining about difficulty.

Uviryth

Tootall2186 wrote: »

But couldn't something like this still be done? Why can't they totally rework mobs and skills etc to be more complex and have more synergy?

I´m afraid not. Strangely enough the majority of the playerbase actually thinks the game is too complex already and the enemies in PvE are too hard.

How can you argue wth something like that?

Turelus

Like to see the game progress on its current path but change how armor/weapon passives work

Those voting for the removal of the class system be aware this will only make the "one build rules all" situation worse.
The reason to my knowledge they went with classes is because it's easier to balance over time than constantly nerfing one or two skills every week because someone figured out the next "super build"

I mean wouldn't right now everyone just change to DK heak/DK Root/DK Banner as their "super build" and basically be playing a DK for PVP content.
Then ZOS nerf those because it's the only skills used and everyone picks up the next big skills, those get nerfed as well repeat until end of time.

Evergnar

Like to see the game progress on its current path but change how armor/weapon passives work

It falls back to the imbalance of stamina vs magika. Armor itself isn't the problem but could be tweaked to help try to balance things.

Nox_Aeterna

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

While i agree that , eventually , the class system will become resonable , right now , it is not.

It is the by far the worst balance i ever saw in any MMO i played and i played even my share of F2P ones , even those had less problems class to class.

So , being a templar , i vote for the removal of the class system , at least my vet9 would not be a waste of bytes , then again , if in the next patch bitting jabs is not buffed back to what it was before they decided to make my class even worse than others, i wont need to worry about this for the next few months.

fyendiarb16_ESO

Like to see the game progress on its current path but change how armor/weapon passives work

I like the way it's going now, however I think the passives need to be more balanced towards a certain gameplay. The main problem I have with the way passives work currently has mainly to do with how stamina/magicka works with your skills and abilities. If we would get a separate energy bar for dodging and such and a stamina cost vs ability effect that is about equal with that of magicka (some balancing would probably be in order so I doubt 1 on 1 same would not work), then most problems would go away.

The second option we can choose in this poll is also a very nice one I think though and more in line with the previous Elder Scrolls games.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

I like the way it's going now, however I think the passives need to be more balanced towards a certain gameplay. The main problem I have with the way passives work currently has mainly to do with how stamina/magicka works with your skills and abilities. If we would get a separate energy bar for dodging and such and a stamina cost vs ability effect that is about equal with that of magicka (some balancing would probably be in order so I doubt 1 on 1 same would not work), then most problems would go away.

The second option we can choose in this poll is also a very nice one I think though and more in line with the previous Elder Scrolls games.

Agree 100% on the stamina use. I honestly would be happier if we couldn't sprint and had a Seperate bar for dodging like in gw2. A horse stamina bar for sprinting I can see as being fine.

The biggest thing is love to see change is either give us a costume/outfit slots like in eq2, that don't affect anything but your appearance. So I can keep the benefits or wearing my light armor but have the look of heavy. Or change how armor passives work. Let people wear what they like and let us allocate our points into which ever of the armor traits that we want and get the benefit no matter what out armor weight is.

patrykplawskib16_ESO

Like to see the game progress on its current path but have the armor system changed to be purely cosmetic and you can allocate skill points into any of the current armor passives no matter what you're wearing

This be bad everyone would be using the same *** that is OP and it would be boring especially in pvp seeing bolt escape everywhere with DK abilities and Sorc abilities. It would be a mess.

DireKit

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Again.

Having played Champions Online, the only thing that really made that game worth-while from a game standpoint was their free-form system which allowed you to choose any power from any set that you wanted and mix and match as you wished.

It seems like it'd work well for this game.

There are going to be imbalances no matter what you do, some powers and builds are going to be stronger than others. That's an inevitability even with how things are now; the least they can do is level the playing field by giving everyone everything in-game and simply letting people decide for themselves how they want to play in a complete fashion.

Blackhorne

Like to see the game progress on its current path

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Truno wrote: »

You can already play the way you want. Yea some might be more efficient than others but being out pvping I see dks using bows, nightblades being mages, sorcs being tanks. You have plenty of options. You can be a heavy dk mage if you want but it makes sense that you wearing heavy armor so wont be as proficient with your magic. There still have to be limits we cant have everyone tunning around with a dk standard and a nb stealth.

Edit. Phone auto correct wrongly multiple times -_-

Yes I know that you can basically play how you want. But if we could all choose any skill we wanted from any class and any weapon and armor our build options ten fold. Why do we have to have limitations on our builds? Why can't we have every option at our disposal?

Because without trade-offs, choices become meaningless.
Because there is no character development if every character choice is equally acceptable.
Because there is no challenge if there is no cost.

iuki

Like to see the game progress on its current path but have the armor system changed to be purely cosmetic and you can allocate skill points into any of the current armor passives no matter what you're wearing

I will admit I am a 'vain' type of player: how my in game avatar looks like is super important. If the game has ugly armors that make me look like a clown and or a peasant even at level cap rather than what I consider a heroic look; it turns me off big time. And in ESO's case, it's awful. Thank goodness for skeletal visage trinket.

Suggestion: allow armors and clothiers options to assemble 'outfits' for the costume slot. ie. take different parts from other sets/armors and combine them into one package. Also, open up that cosmetic slot and offer tons of choices. If you can't be bothered to invest, do what Skyrim and other versions have done...allow modders to do the work for you. I am sure many of them would leap at that opportunity. I don't think anyone wants to look like a peasant...do they?

I think all armor here looks ugly. To many browns, greens, and generally drab outfits I expect would be on a NPC rather than a hero who saved the world. I am a hero...and I want to look like one or at very least have a variety of actual personally pleasing choices.

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Blackhorne wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Truno wrote: »

You can already play the way you want. Yea some might be more efficient than others but being out pvping I see dks using bows, nightblades being mages, sorcs being tanks. You have plenty of options. You can be a heavy dk mage if you want but it makes sense that you wearing heavy armor so wont be as proficient with your magic. There still have to be limits we cant have everyone tunning around with a dk standard and a nb stealth.

Edit. Phone auto correct wrongly multiple times -_-

Yes I know that you can basically play how you want. But if we could all choose any skill we wanted from any class and any weapon and armor our build options ten fold. Why do we have to have limitations on our builds? Why can't we have every option at our disposal?

Because without trade-offs, choices become meaningless.
Because there is no character development if every character choice is equally acceptable.
Because there is no challenge if there is no cost.

I look at an open skill system across the board as leveling the playing field. Now everyone can use whatever skills they want and all have access to the exact same skills. NOW the game becomes about who is actually better than their opponent. There is no "x" passive that will give this player said advantage.

When the game becomes more about skill in pvp and opens up players choices to be creative and make a multitude of builds it will stand for better players(having to learn to fight more complex builds and better themselves against builds) and it will also help players stay more immersed on the game trying to make better builds.

That's the skills side of the game.

If they went with something like that, hopefully it would also mean the game has gone to an entirely open skill/passive system and let the armor and weps be cosmetic.

Just adding, in a game where you don't have to worry about a certain class being "OP", then it all comes down to proper skill balance and making the skills synergize together and give us the options to run with multiple build choices. Instead of everyone rolling a sorc or DK to run "x" build of the week and then that build getting nerfed and people complaining and the cycle goes on and on... Level the field and it creates an easier game to optimize and balance and more about player skill.

SharranAes

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

Been wondering since it was first announced why they chose to have classes in the game...

Could just have made it like "You cannot have skill points in more than 3 "class trees" (Or whatever they would be called in a class-less game) at once

There would be no class balance whining (Yes, tree whining might arise in its place, but with the respec option; If you're not satisfied with one tree, respec, and try another)

It actually surprised me that ESO went with classes, since basically all TES games have been classless (Yes, they had classes before, but class choices had little to no impact late game - Only one I can think of which impacted it was Arena and Daggerfall, because you could choose classes which could only use certain armors/weapons)

Uviryth

Tootall2186 wrote: »

I look at an open skill system across the board as leveling the playing field. Now everyone can use whatever skills they want and all have access to the exact same skills. NOW the game becomes about who is actually better than their opponent. There is no "x" passive that will give this player said advantage.

When the game becomes more about skill in pvp and opens up players choices to be creative and make a multitude of builds it will stand for better players(having to learn to fight more complex builds and better themselves against builds) and it will also help players stay more immersed on the game trying to make better builds.

Awwwww, thats so naive, its actually adorable. Like a kitten jumping on a cactus.
I just wanna pinch you in your cheeks you little rascal

Tootall2186

Like to see class, armor, weapon imbalance taken away by making everyone able to use any skill from any class/weapon/passive

zakeehamacab16_ESO wrote: »

Been wondering since it was first announced why they chose to have classes in the game...

Could just have made it like "You cannot have skill points in more than 3 "class trees" (Or whatever they would be called in a class-less game) at once

There would be no class balance whining (Yes, tree whining might arise in its place, but with the respec option; If you're not satisfied with one tree, respec, and try another)

It actually surprised me that ESO went with classes, since basically all TES games have been classless (Yes, they had classes before, but class choices had little to no impact late game - Only one I can think of which impacted it was Arena and Daggerfall, because you could choose classes which could only use certain armors/weapons)

That would actually be pretty nice. The option to go into any of the current classes trees. Up to 3 trees. Not a bad idea. I still like the option to have total freedom and be able to obtain any skill you'd like from any tree. Only thing that would hold you back is the amount of skill points you acquired. Which is currently at like 300 something right?