Minion Mod Manager. What does it manage again?

Khazaad

Brought up from another thread...

zgrssd wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

I stopped using it when it stopped detecting what it had already installed so they weren't showing up in game.

All it does is taking the work of downloading, unzipping and copying the files from you.
Plus looking if there is a newer version on ESOUI. If they are installed for that client, they will show up in that client. If they are not, they won't.
While in Minion can delete addons, I doubt it does so except for your express order. As in "Rightklick -> unsinstall".

Khazaad wrote: »

Auto update appears unreliable. Sometimes I have to uncheck/recheck the option. Upon clicking it back to auto, it runs whatever updates have been piling up since it stopped checking.

Also it would be nice if it was a little more proactive with maintaining the mods. Is it responsible for monitoring mod conflicts and outdated info? Is it supposed to be? Come to think of it, it seems like the only thing it does is getting the mods files and placing them in the ESO folder.

I'm not suggesting anything scandalous or illegal but what does/can Minion really do besides manage Esoui's presence on your system?

Is it just a cheap way to farm user data for Esoui? Is it my fault because I'm too lazy to do the 10 second process it takes to install a mod?

Esoui is the most popular hub for addons and Minion is escorted quite readily onto a system by willing users like myself; as a business, it almost seems absurd for Esoui to NOT gather today's standard of digital gold (Info about a user's behaviors) while it's hanging around "managing" mods.

I'm not a programmer but I'm not oblivious either. So now I'm just curious. Thoughts?

Cairenn

We run Google Analytics on it, the same as we do on our site. Nothing nefarious.

Khazaad

Cairenn wrote: »

We run Google Analytics on it, the same as we do on our site. Nothing nefarious.

lol oh, just that little thing?

Surely nothing nefarious. Begs the question though: what does it do better? gather information, or manage game modifications.

Either way the name is cleverly befitting. Minion. but surely that's by design.

Cairenn

Wow, really? Everyone and their dog runs GA on their websites & apps. How else do we know what to focus our improvements on? Yes, we ask for feedback on the sites themselves, but reality is that we don't hear from all of our users. I mean, come on, most of our users don't even register on the site. So we use GA as well, to help give us the information we need. If we find out that most of our traffic uses X web browser rather than Y, we know to make sure that we have it compliant with browser X before we worry about browser Y. If we see that a ton of our users use Mac, but not Linux, then we know to focus on making sure that Minion is Mac compliant (although in this particular case, it's compliant on all 3 OSs). What is wrong with that?

We wrote Minion to give our users an easy way to manage their addons. Period.

And yes, Minion was picked very deliberately after a lot of talking about what to call it. From our intro post about it:

Minion: A free, eager-to-please little monster lackey of your own, with enough sense to stick to orders! Minion can handle all the 'work' assigned, letting you get back to the 'serious business' of playing your game sooner.

We like doing cute things like that. Plus it just sounds better: MMOUI's Minion vs something like MMOUI's Client. How boring would the latter be?

Given that you can use Minion without even having an account on our site or logging in to Minion, I really don't understand why you are so freaked out. *confused*

Nazon_Katts

Hm, the only bug i ever came across with Minion where it 'lost' all add-ons, was the install directory resetting. But that was just once, very early in development and after an update to it. Don't really considered that a bug, just a minor oversight. But you might want to double check that the correct path is set, should add-ons all the sudden go missing.

For rest of the time, the little helper does exactly as advertised. So thanks a bunch for your time and effort @Cairenn and everyone else involved, I appreciate it, especially the fact I don't have to use a log in.

You should of course never download it from anywhere else, but the official site. And having an up to date anti virus program must be a given when you deal with rather massive amounts of user created content. Just like a installer could be altered to contain malicious code, so could the addon themselves.

Khazaad

@Cairenn‌ lol whoa. At ease soldier! I put a little bait in the water and you swallowed the rod.

Im not sure if this is gonna get turned around but my initial goal was to offer feedback about the product. I wanted to know more about what it does and how it does it before declaring a negative experience. Please extend me the courtesy of not using the "We made it FREE how can you say that?!" card. You are not a philanthropic organization... moving on.

So I'm gonna lie this down nice and easy without making any sudden moves.
It should look familiar because it's my original feedback... You do with it what you want. You can tell me where to shove it. That's fine too. I can take it.

Auto update appears unreliable. Sometimes I have to uncheck/recheck the option. Upon clicking it back to auto, it runs whatever updates have been piling up since it stopped checking.

Also it would be nice if it was a little more proactive with maintaining the mods. Is it responsible for monitoring mod conflicts and outdated info? Is it supposed to be? Come to think of it, it seems like the only thing it does is getting the mods files and placing them in the ESO folder.

The website is just the best thing since the game itself and I'm glad to have use of it. You should probably try harder to keep your cool. (co founder?) I have no idea what the value of your business you make it appear smaller than originally thought and your snarky responsive just makes you look guilty. Too defensive. You're a functional company that provides the best product for many of our needs and shouldn't get so unnerved because someone says "information gathering". And that will end this "feedback" session.

Don't forget to answer this is your can. If you'd like to answer at home field, I'll ask it there too..I can tie my shoes by myself but if they'd tie themselves I'd let them. Minion is still on velcro tho

Surely nothing nefarious. Begs the question though: what does it do better? gather information, or manage game modifications

zgrssd

Khazaad wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything scandalous or illegal but what does/can Minion really do besides manage Esoui's presence on your system?

Is it just a cheap way to farm user data for Esoui? Is it my fault because I'm too lazy to do the 10 second process it takes to install a mod?

Esoui is the most popular hub for addons and Minion is escorted quite readily onto a system by willing users like myself; as a business, it almost seems absurd for Esoui to NOT gather today's standard of digital gold (Info about a user's behaviors) while it's hanging around "managing" mods.

I'm not a programmer but I'm not oblivious either. So now I'm just curious. Thoughts?

On a Windows with UAC (Vista too 8.1) it runs completely under limited user rights.
That does make sense: All it needs are r/w access to the Addon folders in your user profile. Wich is also the only rights programms can ever expect to have at any given time.
Plus the internet, obviously.

For me it is convenience. I have too many addons to manually update.
For them it is also reduced traffic (easier to extract data from a API and display it then have users call the sites and parse the data manually).
There is a guest mode, combined with the limited rights it would be hard (but also not impossible) to track wich addons I use/identify my computer. But I asume that if they do gather data they are mostly doing it for satistic/programm improovement purposes.

In the end boils down to: Do you trust them or do you trust them not?
I already registered on thier site, I trust them not give my mail adress to spam providers.

Khazaad

zgrssd wrote: »

In the end boils down to: Do you trust them or do you trust them not?
I already registered on thier site, I trust them not give my mail adress to spam providers.

I not a paranoid conspiracy guy but no one's arguing about the value in knowing your customer.

I am unconcerned about the the security of anything of value being threatened. Exposing certain unadvertised personal information is the price we pay to move about in society and it's how society serves itself better. If an audacious invader monitors my *** interests or time spent gaming, congratulations I don't care. Just don't get break my ***, or steal my game account.

I'd like to get back on gear though because I have questions I know people like @zgrssd‌ will help me hash out. A fresh thread would probably serve better so wrong impressions don't stick, and nobody gets their feelings hurt.

Seerah

Khazaad wrote: »

@Cairenn‌ lol whoa. At ease soldier! I put a little bait in the water and you swallowed the rod.

HA! A "little"? You basically insinuated that Minion was worthless, save to data-mine unsuspecting users. More than once. There is a lot of sub-text in your comments.

Khazaad

It doesn't perform the one task I know it's supposed to do with reliance. consistency. So to me, your assessment may be correct. You said it though not me. @seerah

Let's not trivialize it any further.

Seerah

Hahaha... Maybe it's karma...

Khazaad

Seerah wrote: »

Hahaha... Maybe it's karma...

Maybe it's broken. http://www.esoui.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=183 @Seerah‌

zgrssd

Khazaad wrote: »

Seerah wrote: »

Hahaha... Maybe it's karma...

Maybe it's broken. http://www.esoui.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=183 @Seerah‌

It is definitely still in BETA:
http://minion.mmoui.com/

gurugeorgey

Minion has been great for me, I appreciate something that makes keeping mods updated easy, gives an alternative portal to ESOUI, etc., and it's pretty well thought-out in terms of user-friendliness, and works with hardly a hitch.

Probitas

I love cookies, but I hate the internet variety. Cluttering up my system and stealing bandwidth. Want to know something, ask me directly. Thank the gods for NoScript.

trahe

Khazaad wrote: »

It doesn't perform the one task I know it's supposed to do with reliance. consistency.

It has been consistently reliable for me. I wake the little minion up, it looks at the addons I told it that I have, then it checks for updates and applies them. I read one addon developer's claim to update his addon several times a week. I like that minion takes care of that for me.

Not sure of other users experience but that's mine. I like it. I use it. I trust them.

XquixoticalX

I adore minion, and I will continue to use it, but it no longer updates. If I click "update all," the addons that need updates just show the little "busy downloading" bar animation perpetually. If I leave them to download for an hour and come back it will still be going. Restart just shows the same addons needing updates again.

Anyway, technical issues aside, I highly doubt there's any sort of ulterior motive behind it. I mean, how would usage data for this type of application even be valuable?

That being said, if you're paranoid about it, don't use it. Just do your addon installations and updates manually.

Cairenn

XquixoticalX wrote: »

but it no longer updates. If I click "update all," the addons that need updates just show the little "busy downloading" bar animation perpetually. If I leave them to download for an hour and come back it will still be going. Restart just shows the same addons needing updates again.

Hi XquixoticalX. Have you checked to be sure that you are using the latest version it? If you are, would you mind posting in the Minion Support forum please? Make sure you also include the information requested in this post, please.

Baraz

I highly appreciate the time I save with Minion (allowing me to very quickly the updates for the addons I use, otherwise it is a long process).

Zaann

Love minion, great time saver ... not using it would be, you know, despicable.

XquixoticalX

Cairenn wrote: »

XquixoticalX wrote: »

but it no longer updates. If I click "update all," the addons that need updates just show the little "busy downloading" bar animation perpetually. If I leave them to download for an hour and come back it will still be going. Restart just shows the same addons needing updates again.

Hi XquixoticalX. Have you checked to be sure that you are using the latest version it? If you are, would you mind posting in the Minion Support forum please? Make sure you also include the information requested in this post, please.

@Cairenn‌ -- Yeah, I've updated it a few times, even uninstalled and done a clean reinstall with the latest version. I'll make a post in the support forum sometime soon when I get a moment.

And @Zaann‌, lol --

Cairenn

Zaann wrote: »

Love minion, great time saver ... not using it would be, you know, despicable.

*giggles*

zgrssd

XquixoticalX wrote: »

I adore minion, and I will continue to use it, but it no longer updates. If I click "update all," the addons that need updates just show the little "busy downloading" bar animation perpetually. If I leave them to download for an hour and come back it will still be going. Restart just shows the same addons needing updates again.

I had a similar problem trying to update one Addon (or was it install?)
The download threads seems to be stuck. Restarting minion did not help. I had to restart my computer before it finally got downloaded properly.
I forgot to save any debug information however.

I also irregulary have it that it hangs while trying to read my addon list and I have to restart it.

jvh808

Khazaad wrote: »

Brought up from another thread...

zgrssd wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

I stopped using it when it stopped detecting what it had already installed so they weren't showing up in game.

All it does is taking the work of downloading, unzipping and copying the files from you.
Plus looking if there is a newer version on ESOUI. If they are installed for that client, they will show up in that client. If they are not, they won't.
While in Minion can delete addons, I doubt it does so except for your express order. As in "Rightklick -> unsinstall".

Khazaad wrote: »

Auto update appears unreliable. Sometimes I have to uncheck/recheck the option. Upon clicking it back to auto, it runs whatever updates have been piling up since it stopped checking.

Also it would be nice if it was a little more proactive with maintaining the mods. Is it responsible for monitoring mod conflicts and outdated info? Is it supposed to be? Come to think of it, it seems like the only thing it does is getting the mods files and placing them in the ESO folder.

I'm not suggesting anything scandalous or illegal but what does/can Minion really do besides manage Esoui's presence on your system?

Is it just a cheap way to farm user data for Esoui? Is it my fault because I'm too lazy to do the 10 second process it takes to install a mod?

Esoui is the most popular hub for addons and Minion is escorted quite readily onto a system by willing users like myself; as a business, it almost seems absurd for Esoui to NOT gather today's standard of digital gold (Info about a user's behaviors) while it's hanging around "managing" mods.

I'm not a programmer but I'm not oblivious either. So now I'm just curious. Thoughts?

I had Minion for about, oh, 1 hour before I deleted it and entered the Add-ons myself. I don't think anything claiming to be an Add-on Manager should need to be run more than once per day at the opening of game client, because once the files are updated and in the correct folder it no longer is needed.

Seerah

jvh808 wrote: »

I had Minion for about, oh, 1 hour before I deleted it and entered the Add-ons myself. I don't think anything claiming to be an Add-on Manager should need to be run more than once per day at the opening of game client, because once the files are updated and in the correct folder it no longer is needed.

Did you have a problem with the client @jvh808‌ ? Minion most certainly doesn't load at start-up, nor do you need to leave it running or run it more often than you wish to. I fire mine up once every few days and then close it before I run the game.

jvh808

Seerah wrote: »

jvh808 wrote: »

I had Minion for about, oh, 1 hour before I deleted it and entered the Add-ons myself. I don't think anything claiming to be an Add-on Manager should need to be run more than once per day at the opening of game client, because once the files are updated and in the correct folder it no longer is needed.

Did you have a problem with the client @jvh808‌ ? Minion most certainly doesn't load at start-up, nor do you need to leave it running or run it more often than you wish to. I fire mine up once every few days and then close it before I run the game.

@Seerah‌, I did have problems with the client when I tried it out. I did as you said and loaded it once to ensure my add-ons were all up to date, then I shut it down and ran the game client. When I did this, multiple add-ons would constantly error, approx. every 30-45 sec. When I would reopen Minion and load the game, I would no longer receive errors, but I would experience outrageous latency. Only when I removed the manager completely did I stop experiencing the lag and errors.

Seerah

This is just coincidence. Minion has nothing to do with your game, will not cause you errors, and will not cause you lag. If you wish to use the client, I encourage you to try it again.

Thrudra_Magia

Its a piece of junk. Don't bother with it. I installed it, had to delete the .xml file cause the stupid program got stuck. And when it started to 'work' it was never able to detect a single add-on even tho I took it by the hand and showed it exactly where the add-ons were installed.

Piece of junk.

DaveMoeDee

Kinda silly to tell other people "don't bother with it" when it works for most people. I've been using it since ESO launched.

People should give it a try. If they don't like it, they can complain in this thread.

Cairenn

jhodges89b14_ESO wrote: »

Its a piece of junk. Don't bother with it. I installed it, had to delete the .xml file cause the stupid program got stuck. And when it started to 'work' it was never able to detect a single add-on even tho I took it by the hand and showed it exactly where the add-ons were installed.

Piece of junk.

Hi jhodges,

Would you mind posting in our Minion support forum with the information requested in this thread, please? If folks are having problems with it we like to know so we can fix it. Thanks.

Danikat

Honestly the OP sounds paranoid. The impression I got, as someone with no stake in ESOUI or Minion other than using them occasionally was that he had already decided Minion was just useful enough to be worth having and not the amazing program he hoped it'd be and concluded the only explanation was that the developers had other motives and priorities, then set out to find people who would agree whilst continuously (and excessively IMO) protesting his own innocence.

As for my experience with Minion I have to admit I never got into the habit of using it 'properly'. If I want mods I go to ESOUI and download them, then use WinZip to install them. I only got Minion because I started playing shortly before patch 1.6 and even though I only had 5 or 6 addons at the time (now 12) I got tired of having to check for updates and download them manually.

Now I can just open up Minion every so often, if there's a red update button I click it, if not I close it down again. I recently discovered I can also see patch notes by clicking on the addon name, which is useful (warned me that I'd have to completely re-do Srendarr for example). But that's all I do and just for that I love having it.