so much for wowkiller huh

vyndral13preub18_ESO

On the good side, WoW is still the only mmo I have seen gold sellers spell out their websites with their own dead bodies on the ground.

And here people never said WoW never did anything first.

TicToc

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I sure hope folks are speaking for themselves.

The first (almost) two months of launch have provided enormous fun for my wife and I. We're loving this game more than 90% of the other MMO's we've played.

To each their own, and all that. But calling this game 'abysmal' to me just says that you had different expectations that either weren't anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable.

In the end - speak with your wallet - not by spamming your hate on a forum where no one really cares what you think.

That last remark was rather ironic. wouldn't you say? No one cares what you think, yet you bothered to post it anyway.

The problems in the game are very real, not the product of someone's expectations. Well maybe not. I imagine that many had expectations of playing a game that didn't hard crash a dozen times a night, or get you stuck in endless loading screens, or have random mini rollbacks that remove your progress or even prevent you from progressing at all...and so on. Some people can't even log into the game. I imagine that some people had expectations that they would be able to.

I have no idea if you are denying problems to make your point, or if you have just not participated in enough of the various aspects of the game to see the majority of them. Either way, the problems do, in fact, exist. I don't share the doom and gloom view that some others may have, but I certainly acknowledge that there are some major issues that need to be resolved.

aleister

The apologists brigade excuse, "other games had problems too" has worn too thin to be worth repeating. Yeah, other MMOs had bugs and issues, but I've never played an MMO where quality issues impacted me as a player as persistently and frequently as this game. Launch days included.

Paralyse

This thread makes my head hurt bad.

1. WoW is still plagued with hackers, botters, dupe bugs, wall hacks, path hacking, clipping, etc. Visit ownedcore.

2. ESO has been out of beta for less than 6 months and WoW has been up and running over 10 years. If you expect ESO to have less bugs than WoW, you're insane. It does not run on the same game engine, shares no code on the client or the server side, or anything else with WoW.

3. Early WoW game play experience was full of crashes, unplayable builds, specs that were literally only useful for one situation on one boss, missing items, quests that led to nowhere, uncompletable quests, unkillable raid bosses, missing content, "Falling through the world" bugs, 4 hour login queues, world server crashes, etc. Ask anyone who actually played and quit thinking that WoW was perfect when it launched.

4. The reason WoW is so popular is that it is ridiculously easy. Death almost never occurs outside of raids/instanced content, and levelling a character from 1 to 90 can be done in 2 days with heirloom gear. The only difficult content left in WoW is high bracket Arena PvP, rated Battlegrounds, and Normal/Heroic raids. Everything else is faceroll. Because it is so easy, you can obtain significant progress in only 30 minutes to 2 hours a week, something that is difficult on other games.

5. Most people who populated WoW were those who felt EQ was too grindy and too hard (they may have been right, too.)

6. ESO is the closest MMO I have seen that "feels" like vanilla WoW did at launch. I'm sure that, much like WoW, within a couple years it will feature the same easy-mode addons that WoW does, telling you what skills to use where, etc. and also much like WoW it will probably end up featuring "stock" cookie-cutter builds for a given class/spec after awhile.

7. At its current difficulty level ESO is too challenging for many modern WoW players, who have gotten used to never dying, while flying at 380% speed direct from objective to objective, and who rely very heavily on addons to have even basic competence. Most of them run the exact same builds for a given spec, all of which are simmed to death online so that if you meet one Holy Paladin, odds are he will be built and statted EXACTLY like any other Holy Paladin at that gear level. ESO doesn't really hold your hand, yet, and you actually die.

8. ESO was not designed to "kill" WoW. WoW is doing a good job killing itself since about 2008 or so, and the new expansion is likely going to cause another huge plummet in subs as the game is being highly simplified and many popular features are being removed, while things such as the option to purchase a max level toon for real cash have been added to the store.

9. ESO needs to address the root issue of bots: killing the accounts they're getting. This means that ESO is going to have to get very serious about character creation and account creation. I think the game should require an authenticator, WOW-style, and also that proof of identity should be firmly established before allowing anyone to create an account. Further checks could be put in that monitor, say, the number of resource nodes a given toon has accessed within the last X minutes, and if it exceeds a threshold, that toon is automatically banned pending appeal. Unfortunately, I fear that ESO did not design good security into the game client, allowing way too much stuff to be modified by the end user without any way of detecting it server-side.

10. The lack of the ability to create Skooma is a travesty. I simply cannot, in good conscience, consider this a true Elder Scrolls game due to this glaring oversight. In order to remain competitive, ESO needs to introduce Skooma ASAP, preferably within the next hotfix patch.

Have fun.

Moiskormoimi

It's likely been said but the only thing that will 'kill' WoW is WoW itself. It came out at a time when mmos were relatively fresh and new and it innovated the genre in such a way that regardless that it wasn't the first, it's now considered 'standard' base for mmos.

ESO never intended to be the next 'WoW killer'. It took the idea that people wanted to play Skyrim with friends, took fresh lore from TES games, and placed it in an mmo skin. Did they execute that well? I thought so at first, but the blinders are now off and I see how painfully average this game is, along with how painfully inept this young company is at dealing with basic issues that should be common knowledge. However, it's a disservice to every mmo that comes out to claim that their intent to do anything other than make money.

Honfold

This is something I have never understood. Many people keep claiming that there was all this hype and grandiose claims that ESO was going to kill WOW when in actuality there was not. I was on the forums before the game launched and those that asked if ESO was going to "shut WOW down" were simply told,

fougerec99b16_ESO wrote: »

Nothing will "kill WOW" unless Blizzard themselves pulls the plug. It's simply too ensconced in the public conscious. Even if they lost 1/2 their subs that would still be millions left playing and nothing will touch that. Not ESO, not Wildstar, not Everquest Next. WoW hit at a time when nothing else came close and has instilled a sort of brand loyalty that permeates to this day.

Instead of looking for the next "WoW", instead look for a game you enjoy playing and support it as best you can. For me, that's ESO. For others it may be something else.

or something similar. Now this leads me to believe that anyone who claims that all the "crazy hype" for the game was misplaced is either jumping on the bandwagon of ESO hate while making false accusations, or they are just misinformed.

zaria

HandofBane wrote: »

Players and developers alike have continued to fail to learn from the past. Appending the "WoWkiller" tag to any game is only going to curse any chances of success, as it implies the game is going to be so overwhelming and amazing at launch that players and the public in general will hold that game to extremely high expectations, unreasonably so in many cases. This kind of expectation only amplifies the flaws once the game goes live and falls flat because of many of the same bugs seen in other game launches, or brand spanking new ones that few people saw coming (or did see coming but got ignored because some clown with a suit and tie decided they needed that specific shiny number for a release date to market around).

Claiming your game will be an WOW killer is a way to set you up to fail as the investors will demand 10M subs or your head.
In short WOW entered the marked at a perfect point with a good game.
This can probably not be repeated.

Chirru

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I sure hope folks are speaking for themselves.

The first (almost) two months of launch have provided enormous fun for my wife and I. We're loving this game more than 90% of the other MMO's we've played.

To each their own, and all that. But calling this game 'abysmal' to me just says that you had different expectations that either weren't anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable.

In the end - speak with your wallet - not by spamming your hate on a forum where no one really cares what you think. Move along. Continue your search for the Holy Grail of MMO's, and best of luck to you!

Goes two ways...if no one cares about what is written in the forums...no one cares what you write... hopefully you can see the fault in your own argument.

In any case..you responded angrily to a post...why did you if you do not care? You have fun...good on you and congratulations...others do not seem to have as much fun as you and you wife. I sincerely hope you will enjoy this game for a long time to come.

Have a nice day.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

tanthil wrote: »

Roneth wrote: »

This game will only get better with time.

That is an opinion, One i do not share looking at the direction the devs seem to want to head in.

Please keep in mind its not time that makes things better it is peoples work over that time, they have had a good 2 months now to show us that there's at least an idea for a working game here that can last, i don't see it

Then you sir are short sighted.

ErilAq

Here's the problem: gamers have gained the need for instant gratification. WoW had a terrible start, indeed, if it had the start it did in todays world, it'd be ripped apart and tossed aside. However, it didn't, and gamers were willing to wait for it to balance out. New MMO's have to struggle against a well established game, and do what took WoW years in a month or two or get crucified.

Shiny trailers and pre sale bonuses are worth more to gamers than a solid game for the most part ( Look at CoD, BF4, ME3,etc). MMOs, however, are viewed in a different light. They cannot have major bugs, major imbalances, lag time, down time and they need to have years worth of content a few months into the game. This is hardly realistic, but it's the fact of the matter. WoW has become too well established for there to be anything less.

Being patient with an MMO is the only way to make it thrive. However, there is one MAJOR area Zenimax has dropped the ball. Communication. I realize it can be hard to find time to read the posts and respond, but it brings faith to the community. Not every thread needs an answer, and not every answer needs to be what the community wants. Customer service had been abysmal at launch, it may still be, I've been blessed and have not needed it since the physical copy debacle, so I can't say. But staying silent for 90% of the forum posts (or the one sentence reminders to stay on topic or remain civil) allows people to become discouraged, because no one wants this game to succeed more than the players, and if we aren't shown we're cared about, then we will move on, lamenting what could have been. It's amazing what communication (or lack thereof) can do. We are social animals after all (and really, MMOs are all about interaction with others)

Requiemslove

Surely the main issue here is players expectations? Look, I don't care for all the WOW killer business and whether some have or have not said it will, that is irrelevant to me, having believe it or not, NEVER played WOW. For me, I think people need to be patient and open-minded. This MMO is a big project and to my mind it could be the big MMO of the decade, but it wont get there if players expect it to be instantly superior to things that have come before, whether that be WOW, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, LOTRO, whatever. Give it time, if you love ES [the franchise this game is based upon] and you enjoy the game and don't want to see yourself playing something else, give it time. The problem for this game will be holding onto subscriptions, as too many players are far too fickle, I say that with no disrespect intended but its the way the human race is.

hk11

I am enjoying it, but I'm getting pretty bored already. Not good for less than a month of play.

People hate on WoW, but outside of EQ and DAoC, its the only game people play for more than a couple of months. There must be a reason.

ciannait

HandofBane wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Roneth wrote: »

This game will only get better with time. Remember, WoW has been out for a decade... ESO has been out for only a few months.

The bar is higher now. But even cutting them some slack for being new, ZOS still blew an opportunity other studios would kill for and laid a giant egg. The quality of this game is abysmal.

Can only cut them so much slack for "being new" - remember, the guy at the top of ZOS worked at Mythic for over a decade, including something like 6 years on DAoC.

And I see a lot of the same problems that DAOC had - FOTM builds, completely broken builds (I was stupid and played an EM Enchantress for far too long), crazy nerf-hammers falling after a bunch of people had exploited a mechanic for far too long... I swore I'd never give Mythic another penny.

My husband loves TES and I thought I'd enjoy getting to actually play an MMO with him, but right now I wish I'd listened to my better instincts when I heard that Matt Firor was leading this project.

meghuskoow

The reason people play wow is becuase its now a go to for people that dont know anything better to do. If your bored then quit or change tactics, maybe . I agree there are bugs, i have played EQ 1/2 DAoC WoW Rift DCUO several others, all of which were bugged and with spammers and with exploiters and all with haters/fans. I am a huge fan of ElderScrolls games and enjoy this version a lot. Those that i see in game are not upset, save for the few kids that have rage quit over zone chat, which was funny as they were in the first zone of the game and didnt have the metal to keep trying.

My wife doesnt play games but i wish she did so we could enjoy this together.

Love the game. Looking forward seeing the evolution of how it will change and update

Requiemslove

hk11 wrote: »

I am enjoying it, but I'm getting pretty bored already. Not good for less than a month of play.

People hate on WoW, but outside of EQ and DAoC, its the only game people play for more than a couple of months. There must be a reason.

Well this one played LOTRO for 6 years and still sometimes goes back...so...yea.

Daethz

Will never be a "WoW-Killer", idc if you spend 10 billion dollars on a mmo, still wont work.

Laughter Song

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I sure hope folks are speaking for themselves.

The first (almost) two months of launch have provided enormous fun for my wife and I. We're loving this game more than 90% of the other MMO's we've played.

To each their own, and all that. But calling this game 'abysmal' to me just says that you had different expectations that either weren't anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable.

In the end - speak with your wallet - not by spamming your hate on a forum where no one really cares what you think. Move along. Continue your search for the Holy Grail of MMO's, and best of luck to you!

Is it "hate" to write the obvious in hopes that Devs will make changes...er should I write "Share Holders"?

Is it hate to in a mature fashion point out that there are "flaws" that are inexcusable (not having GMs to aggressively battle bots) that I for one did "Pay with my Wallet" when my family (X3 players) purchased the Imperial Edition, the free months is only obtained if you pay for a month up free & the Palomino mount - so $100.00 per game?

If an MMO in today's date is not at least par with an MMO almost 12 years old, World of Warcraft, then what does it have to offer?

I guess my expectations of having a mediocre launch for 100.00 per game - the most Expensive game/MMORPG in history - Triple what most subscription MMORPG games today cost are ...what did you write, " anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable".

You are coming across as a man with Anger or perhaps "hate" issues, not those who have "voiced" their concerns - no hate here, only concern, birthed out of a hope that this game succeeds IF changes are forthcoming.

If this is the "best" MMORPG you have played, on a gaming level I feel sorry for you. Please pray tell explain to me/us what is about this game that is so great? That there is no challenge? That Soft caps are capped at level 10? That Sorcs have more armor than those who wear Heavy (plate) armor?

Personally I am not one for the Homoginization of specific class types; call me a D&D class archetype fan. I do enjoy ES games so I thought I would give ESO a try.

I am not upset about Bugs, though there are hundreds per zone, not to mention class skill issues (skills not firing off etc.), or the DCing though I DC every 1/2 hour, which btw according to Customer Service reps is a Zenimax ESO issue and not coming from my end; I am upset that Zenimax (Share holders) do nothing visible to rid this game of the Bots.

It is You sir, who have a Low Standard.

Basically we are all paying for a beta.

"No one cares"...? Apparently you do.

isengrimb16_ESO

Elgarr wrote: »

Roneth wrote: »

This game will only get better with time. Remember, WoW has been out for a decade... ESO has been out for only a few months.

And wow was released in 2004, so 10 years later it's number 1, and a game released 10 years later can't be?

Do we have to wait until 2024 for eso to be as popular as wow is?

ESO can never be as popular as WoW is. You have to learn to move to get out of things, for one thing. For another thing, a lot of folks think WoW is how everything should be, and they don't understand why ESO's world feels so "empty" (its because not every bit of the landscape is being patrolled by mindless robots.)

And WoW's popularity might be on the wane, since Blizz is currently in the process of giving the finger to "casuals" in favour of the "l33ts" who somehow think flying broke the game.

canghai

hi im the op and umm well this escalated

isengrimb16_ESO

hk11 wrote: »

I am enjoying it, but I'm getting pretty bored already. Not good for less than a month of play.

People hate on WoW, but outside of EQ and DAoC, its the only game people play for more than a couple of months. There must be a reason.

People get hooked on WoW because they fall into the gear grind machine. It's a sort of digital meth.

isengrimb16_ESO

Laughter Song wrote: »

indytims_ESO wrote: »

I sure hope folks are speaking for themselves.

The first (almost) two months of launch have provided enormous fun for my wife and I. We're loving this game more than 90% of the other MMO's we've played.

To each their own, and all that. But calling this game 'abysmal' to me just says that you had different expectations that either weren't anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable.

In the end - speak with your wallet - not by spamming your hate on a forum where no one really cares what you think. Move along. Continue your search for the Holy Grail of MMO's, and best of luck to you!

Is it "hate" to write the obvious in hopes that Devs will make changes...er should I write "Share Holders"?

Is it hate to in a mature fashion point out that there are "flaws" that are inexcusable (not having GMs to aggressively battle bots) that I for one did "Pay with my Wallet" when my family (X3 players) purchased the Imperial Edition, the free months is only obtained if you pay for a month up free & the Palomino mount - so $100.00 per game?

If an MMO in today's date is not at least par with an MMO almost 12 years old, World of Warcraft, then what does it have to offer?

I guess my expectations of having a mediocre launch for 100.00 per game - the most Expensive game/MMORPG in history - Triple what most subscription MMORPG games today cost are ...what did you write, " anywhere near reality - or were completely and utterly unreasonable".

You are coming across as a man with Anger or perhaps "hate" issues, not those who have "voiced" their concerns - no hate here, only concern, birthed out of a hope that this game succeeds IF changes are forthcoming.

If this is the "best" MMORPG you have played, on a gaming level I feel sorry for you. Please pray tell explain to me/us what is about this game that is so great? That there is no challenge? That Soft caps are capped at level 10? That Sorcs have more armor than those who wear Heavy (plate) armor?

Personally I am not one for the Homoginization of specific class types; call me a D&D class archetype fan. I do enjoy ES games so I thought I would give ESO a try.

I am not upset about Bugs, though there are hundreds per zone, not to mention class skill issues (skills not firing off etc.), or the DCing though I DC every 1/2 hour, which btw according to Customer Service reps is a Zenimax ESO issue and not coming from my end; I am upset that Zenimax (Share holders) do nothing visible to rid this game of the Bots.

It is You sir, who have a Low Standard.

Basically we are all paying for a beta.

"No one cares"...? Apparently you do.

Stopped reading at "shareholders". Bethesda/Zenimax are private companies, and don't have shareholders. Blizzard has shareholders, though, which might explain their "all over the map" development schizophrenia. "We want it hard! oops, cata dungeons were too hard. Let's have panda people and Chinese stuff, to stop the bleeding of Asian subs. Don't you all love the music of Valley of Four Winds? Oh, that didn't work, let's try getting rid of flying now, and see if that makes people excited and happy. Uh, if that doesn't work, what's next? Oh, well, maybe we'll pander to al quaeda next and have beheadings, wtfk."

Moiskormoimi

Incorrect. Shareholders are not stock holders, and zos has shareholders.

fiachsidhe

HandofBane wrote: »

fiachsidhe wrote: »

Even most of the players understood this and never made the claim either. Killing WoW isn't a good goal. Maintaining healthy competition so both games constantly improve is.

I think you may not be frequenting most of the same forums I have been over the past few years. Especially once the beta weekends opened up, there were all kinds of posts claiming it would be the next WoWkiller - the ESO subreddit was one of the bigger offenders, though other places like the *chans had nearly as many posters making that claim (more being shot down though, those are not tolerant communities).

I'm not saying people weren't making the claim at all. Just that most of players who were savvy to the game were not.