Is this what MMO's are like ?

Lunerdog

May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to play this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

So with the game in it's current state with extemely poor patches, awful lag at busy times, rather a lot of bugs, being booted to character select and rolled back multiple times over the last couple of nights.....

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?

tanthil

No they are not all like this, some are better then others, all are in pretty bad shape at release if you are comparing them to ones that have been out longer, but this one is in the worse shape i have seen yet, no direction and bugs everywere/more bugs then fixes with patches.

Tbh i think bethsada needs to post a thread just like yours->

"May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to Develop this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?"

lecarcajou_ESO

I'm only here because ESO's pretty, and it's got dark elves, and because I just need that new game smell every once in a while. But that smell is fast changing to a nose-wrinkling odor...

Lunerdog

It's just pushing me away at the moment and making me not want to play, enjoyment zero, frustration max factor ten, and thats a real shame.

Nitratas

lecarcajou_ESO wrote: »

I'm only here because ESO's pretty, and it's got dark elves, and because I just need that new game smell every once in a while. But that smell is fast changing to a nose-wrinkling odor...

The smell is turning into a fart day after day

rotiferuk

Lunerdog wrote: »

May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to play this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

So with the game in it's current state with extemely poor patches, awful lag at busy times, rather a lot of bugs, being booted to character select and rolled back multiple times over the last couple of nights.....

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?

You forgot to mention the elitism of "hardcore" pvpers, the hatred of "noobs", being told "learn to play", grinding to level rather than questing, bots, exploits and limitations on game design / play resulting from running over the internet.

tangorn

tanthil wrote: »

No they are not all like this, some are better then others, all are in pretty bad shape at release if you are comparing them to ones that have been out longer, but this one is in the worse shape i have seen yet, no direction and bugs everywere/more bugs then fixes with patches.

Tbh i think bethsada needs to post a thread just like yours->

"May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to Develop this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?"

Actually you forgot couple of MMO "features":
1. Population that is 1/3 bots,1/6 "pro" types, and 1/3 "it is impossibly hard" types...
2. Official forums dominated by the last two groups with a sprinkle of forum trolls so that if you read the forums you get an impression that it is a worst game ever in every turn...

And yes, all MMOs are like that in the beginning and then they die...

Conclusion: play the game bro, and enjoy it instead of reading the forums. Arena was buggy as hell, Daggerfall was more or less Ok only after patch 13, and so goes all TES history...

PBpsy

Lunerdog wrote: »

May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to play this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

So with the game in it's current state with extemely poor patches, awful lag at busy times, rather a lot of bugs, being booted to character select and rolled back multiple times over the last couple of nights.....

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?

I think it may depend a lot on the personal experience of each player.Never had any of those problems you mention. For me up to this last patch was the best experience I had in the last few years with online games.It was actually possible to play at launch day which is quite an achievement.

EliteZ

The basic answer to the question is yes. mmo and always changing with new content and which new content comes bugs. No matter how long and hard you test an update, you will get bugs that were missed once the masses get their hands on it and try to play the content in their own way that nobody else might have came across while testing. Look at WoW, they open their major patches up to the public test realm for months and still they have hundreds of bugs when they release it, some very minor and some major.

However, at launch, yes most mmos are like this, mass amounts of bugs, very stretched out support that just can't keep up with the amount of issues players raise, lag, bots, gold sellers, dc's, rollbacks, expoilts, server downtime and so forth. All of these are very common for mmos within it's first few months after launch.

I remember the last mmo I played at launch before ESO, GW2 where half of the community couldn't play for the first few days because they couldn't log in. I took the day off to play the game and remember thinking I shouldn't have as I only got an hour or two of game time and even then couldn't do anything as the "travel to player" feature was broke and it was impossible for me and my friends to get together.

Then there was FF14 where they had to lock the servers to any new members for almost a week which nobody else could start playing because the servers just couldn't handle the amount of people trying to play at the same time.

Once the game has been out for a few months, things start to get nailed down, the developers start to learn more about what does and doesn't work for their game and their community. They have more time to focus on other things rather then trying to fix everything that was raised from launch in a hurry.

To be honest, somebody that has never played an mmo before really shouldn't think about playing their first mmo at a title launch. I believer this is one of the biggest issues for ESO, so many players buy the game based on liking the previous single player games and not realising just what an mmo actually is especially at launch.

Ser Lobo

Lunerdog wrote: »

May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to play this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

So with the game in it's current state with extemely poor patches, awful lag at busy times, rather a lot of bugs, being booted to character select and rolled back multiple times over the last couple of nights.....

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?

Being completely honest? Yes. Every MMO I've played is full of bugs and loopholes. If your lucky, you'll just not be affected for a while. But stick with any of them long enough, and you'll find all the dirty flaws.

This is pretty much the standard for the genre.

Alpha_Protocol

As MMO's have evolved, community demands and advanced programming/capabilities have made MMO's about 100 times more complex than they were 10 years ago. Combine that with a corporate model that has not evolved (greed) and a community that grows ever more entitled with every new release, you have a recipe for disaster that doesn't take much to turn it all on end.

Aside from that, ZOS has made several miscalculations and missteps.

I believe things will get much better. Hopefully very soon.

VlVEC

Name 1 MMO that didn't have technical difficulties within the first couple months of launch.

notepad

Pretty much all MMOs have issues their first month or couple of months. Some more so than others.

Glurin

VlVEC wrote: »

Name 1 MMO that didn't have technical difficulties within the first couple months of launch.

World of Darkness. But only because it's been canceled. No launch, therefore no technical difficulties at launch.

nzblustone

I don't see even a fraction of the bugs most people complain about. For me this has been one of the smoothest MMO launches I have been a part.

morashtakb16_ESO

Again we get the "but all the other MMO's were bad at launch" argument.
Again let me turn that around and ask;

• Why didn't ZOS, et al, do their homework, study the successes and failures of the other MMOs, and plan accordingly?
• Why, ten years after the launch of "the other big name MMO's" as well as all the rest, do we still consider a buggy launch the norm?
• Why do we not demand, and get, better?

PBpsy

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Again we get the "but all the other MMO's were bad at launch" argument.
Again let me turn that around and ask;

• Why didn't ZOS, et al, do their homework, study the successes and failures of the other MMOs, and plan accordingly?
• Why, ten years after the launch of "the other big name MMO's" as well as all the rest, do we still consider a buggy launch the norm?
• Why do we not demand, and get, better?

Lack of an arbitrarily large amount of money and time.
Lack of a reliable crystal ball that could help them predict any possible type of failure.
Lack of completely reliable technology,Both hardware and software,

Nitratas

PBpsy wrote: »

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Again we get the "but all the other MMO's were bad at launch" argument.
Again let me turn that around and ask;

• Why didn't ZOS, et al, do their homework, study the successes and failures of the other MMOs, and plan accordingly?
• Why, ten years after the launch of "the other big name MMO's" as well as all the rest, do we still consider a buggy launch the norm?
• Why do we not demand, and get, better?

Lack of an arbitrarily large amount of money and time.
Lack of a reliable crystal ball that could help them predict any possible type of failure.
Lack of completely reliable technology,Both hardware and software,

More like publishing half finished and tested game because of greed

Arreyanne

A lot of them have a variety of ways to level a character, and more NPC monsters between questing zones which allows you to get more xp as you go through the questing system

Lalai

Any MMO I've played from launch in the past 10 or so years has the following things:

1. A fair amount of bugs at launch, with bugs remaining until after a few content patches. Some bugs never do get fixed, it's hit or miss as to whether you get them.
2. People on the forums crying doom and gloom at launch. Seems like it's gotten worse for MMO launches the past 5 or so years, but can't tell if that's nostalgia talking or not.
3. Server downtime, lag... some have had rollbacks, some haven't.
4. A fair amount of patches in the first few months, hopefully at least one content patch. Said content patch usually breaks some additional stuff and the cycle of negativity on the forum continues (but generally shifts more onto what the patch broke instead of complaining about launch day errors).

After the game has been out a good half a year or year, most of the initial bugs are gone, but the forums will still be negative. It'll all be about the latest nerfs/buffs, things being OP, content being too hard/easy, loot not dropping frequent enough, things the most recent patch broke.. so pretty much the same, just with the updated content to complain about.

Said MMO will either continue for a few years (in rare cases many, many years), and then go F2P, or close down, and it'll never be for any one reason alone, and has never really been because of a bad launch from the MMOs I've played.

So, my answer to your question OP, would be yes. This is how MMOs tend to be. It would be nice if 10 years of advancement meant no bugs now, but unfortunately that's not how programming works.. and just because company A did something awesomely doesn't mean they're gonna share programming secrets with company B.. so shared knowledge in the industry as a whole programming-wise isn't always a fast moving deal.

PBpsy

Nitratas wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Again we get the "but all the other MMO's were bad at launch" argument.
Again let me turn that around and ask;

• Why didn't ZOS, et al, do their homework, study the successes and failures of the other MMOs, and plan accordingly?
• Why, ten years after the launch of "the other big name MMO's" as well as all the rest, do we still consider a buggy launch the norm?
• Why do we not demand, and get, better?

Lack of an arbitrarily large amount of money and time.
Lack of a reliable crystal ball that could help them predict any possible type of failure.
Lack of completely reliable technology,Both hardware and software,

More like publishing half finished and tested game because of greed

I agree completely. All devs should go over the deadlines, over budget,lose their jobs and make the investors lose as much money as possible while developing these huge game projects to perfection, We all know that the more money you make investors lose the more they are willing to invest in that kind of stuff. If they would learn this we would have huge flawless MMOS coming out each week.

Lunerdog

Thanks for the replies guys, maybe my expectations were a bit high but nevermind.

I'm only posting now as I've just been booted to character select again, almost scared to log back in and see how much progress I've lost this time.

Think I'll console myself with a pork pie wi broon sauce and a pint pot of tea

Maldamus

@Lunerdog‌
That sounds mysteriously like a northern englishman's sentiments, if so kudos to you, from a fellow northerner.

morashtakb16_ESO

Let's see if I can be plainer;

If I wanted to build a pond in my backyard the EPA, via the Clean Water Act, would require me to conduct an environmental impact statement that would include such things as past and future concerns.

We, the gaming community, should put pressure on developers to do the same - Show us that the management and team is fully aware of bad past practices, as well as best practices, in order to demonstrate that they are fully cognizant of the dangers and pitfalls of launching a game in the state that we are grown accustomed to and think that this is "normal".

If there are unrecognized or unforeseen problems then they have a plan in such an eventuality and can adjust as necessary. Adapt, adjust, overcome.

We would get better games at launch and the developers would have more satisfied customers and less harried support staff.

This does not take an "arbitrary" (I don't think that word means what you think it means) amount of money nor a Duke Nukem Forever development time line. It only requires that the company do it's homework long before the first line of code is written and plan for common eventualities.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

Lunerdog wrote: »

May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to play this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

So with the game in it's current state with extemely poor patches, awful lag at busy times, rather a lot of bugs, being booted to character select and rolled back multiple times over the last couple of nights.....

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?

A part from the bugs, i dont see why you should complaign.. Other then that yes this are MMO's try to enjoy it and play with other people..

Korah_Eaglecry

tanthil wrote: »

No they are not all like this, some are better then others, all are in pretty bad shape at release if you are comparing them to ones that have been out longer, but this one is in the worse shape i have seen yet, no direction and bugs everywere/more bugs then fixes with patches.

Tbh i think bethsada needs to post a thread just like yours->

"May sound like a stupid question but I only decided to Develop this game as it's an Elder Scrolls title and hence it's my first MMO.

Are all MMO's like this and is this just how goes, is this the norm ?"

Bethesda didn't make this game Zenimax did. Bethesda simply aided them in creating it.

PBpsy

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Let's see if I can be plainer;

If I wanted to build a pond in my backyard the EPA, via the Clean Water Act, would require me to conduct an environmental impact statement that would include such things as past and future concerns.

We, the gaming community, should put pressure on developers to do the same - Show us that the management and team is fully aware of bad past practices, as well as best practices, in order to demonstrate that they are fully cognizant of the dangers and pitfalls of launching a game in the state that we are grown accustomed to and think that this is "normal".

If there are unrecognized or unforeseen problems then they have a plan in such an eventuality and can adjust as necessary. Adapt, adjust, overcome.

We would get better games at launch and the developers would have more satisfied customers and less harried support staff.

This does not take an "arbitrary" (I don't think that word means what you think it means) amount of money nor a Duke Nukem Forever development time line. It only requires that the company do it's homework long before the first line of code is written and plan for common eventualities.

Wait did you just compare the scope of a game that you can quit anytime and the worst it can do is annoy you a bit with what appears to be a USA federal law protecting a critical natural resource?

Yes you would need quite bit of time and money to do a critical comprehensive research into how different games failed or succeed in different aspects. Some things related to actually technical features would impossible to figure out due the confidentiality of the game code and of the hardware infrastructure. If you try new ideas it is also quite hard to determine all the possible repercussions. Making games is hard .making large scales MMO's is even harder. As customers we have the option of chose how understanding we are and use our CC accordingly.

zaria

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Again we get the "but all the other MMO's were bad at launch" argument.
Again let me turn that around and ask;

• Why didn't ZOS, et al, do their homework, study the successes and failures of the other MMOs, and plan accordingly?
• Why, ten years after the launch of "the other big name MMO's" as well as all the rest, do we still consider a buggy launch the norm?
• Why do we not demand, and get, better?

Why does any new planes model get cost overrun and reliability problems?
Dreamliner, the huge Airbuss one F22, F35.
Pretty much the same reason, any MMO is a megaproject, far to many things can go wrong.

Salsadoom

MMOs, I can name a number of non MMOs that had as bad or worse launches. It's not wholly owned by MMOs