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The reason why the bash balance could be considered unwarranted. (A request for 1h + shield changes)
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Just because i use 1h and shield doesnt mean i'm a tank.
Never forget the first time I tried to group in this game. Fungal Grotto, some kid didn't want me in his group because he said tanks use a sword and shield, not a maul.
Wonder where that kid is today...
Probably still trying to figure out how to tank Grothdarr in Vaults of Madness.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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They can lower the stamina cost of Puncture or Low Slash to increase the DPS of 1H/shield, which is something that has been proposed many times before.That's fine. They can make it do 400dps again.
So long as they make it a skill. Sound good?
(I use and yes, still use 1h/shield... Effectively)
You might be using 1H/shield, but that doesn't mean it's effective and it definitely doesn't mean that it's in line with the other weapons, which themselves aren't in line with staff, which isn't in line with class abilities.0 -
EvilEmpire✭✭✭I completely agree with the OP in essentially all aspects.
The bash nerf completely changes the dynamic of my character. It's not because bash does less damage, but as a Stamina based char, now I have to spam more class attacks if I want any chance to kill mobs, which as a low magicka char, have very little effect (I've seen combat logs where some of my dk skills only do 60 damage to a VR7 mob). Since I now have no real dps, constantly have to spam other skills to try and wear down the mob; I leave myself wide open most of the time, defeating the purpose of the shield in the first place.
I did the 2h DPS thing (up until VR3 where surviving got a lot harder with no def posture), and bow thing, and basically now that 1h/sh is garbage, my stamina based, heavy armor dps/tank (which I primarily play solo), is nothing like it used to be. Basically I have to respec (AGAIN because I already had to do that because 2h and bow suck as a solo player in high VR content), and change all my focus on class skills and magicka, and probably light armor -- defeating the purpose of putting all that time into Blacksmithing and Hvy Armor.
As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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Exactly, it's now impossible to make a character who's "just a good swordsman," for example. Your character, at best, has to be a mediocre swordsman who gets by because he also happens to be able to summon a whip of lava or magical holy spears.EvilEmpire wrote: »As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.Edited by Maverick827 on 25 May 2014 22:180 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭EvilEmpire wrote: »I completely agree with the OP in essentially all aspects.
The bash nerf completely changes the dynamic of my character. It's not because bash does less damage, but as a Stamina based char, now I have to spam more class attacks if I want any chance to kill mobs, which as a low magicka char, have very little effect (I've seen combat logs where some of my dk skills only do 60 damage to a VR7 mob). Since I now have no real dps, constantly have to spam other skills to try and wear down the mob; I leave myself wide open most of the time, defeating the purpose of the shield in the first place.
I did the 2h DPS thing (up until VR3 where surviving got a lot harder with no def posture), and bow thing, and basically now that 1h/sh is garbage, my stamina based, heavy armor dps/tank (which I primarily play solo), is nothing like it used to be. Basically I have to respec (AGAIN because I already had to do that because 2h and bow suck as a solo player in high VR content), and change all my focus on class skills and magicka, and probably light armor -- defeating the purpose of putting all that time into Blacksmithing and Hvy Armor.
As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.
I think you highlighted the real problem pretty effectively without intending to, unless i read you wrong. The issue shouldn't really be that this one skill got nerfed, it should be that stamina based skills are comparatively weak, at the moment the only real way to play is to be magicka based, whereas if you choose a stamina based build you are going to be behind the curve for everything, I know on my dw/bow NB i had to swap to magicka and class skills to get by after awhile.0 -
yogarogue✭✭EvilEmpire wrote: »I completely agree with the OP in essentially all aspects.
The bash nerf completely changes the dynamic of my character. It's not because bash does less damage, but as a Stamina based char, now I have to spam more class attacks if I want any chance to kill mobs, which as a low magicka char, have very little effect (I've seen combat logs where some of my dk skills only do 60 damage to a VR7 mob). Since I now have no real dps, constantly have to spam other skills to try and wear down the mob; I leave myself wide open most of the time, defeating the purpose of the shield in the first place.
I did the 2h DPS thing (up until VR3 where surviving got a lot harder with no def posture), and bow thing, and basically now that 1h/sh is garbage, my stamina based, heavy armor dps/tank (which I primarily play solo), is nothing like it used to be. Basically I have to respec (AGAIN because I already had to do that because 2h and bow suck as a solo player in high VR content), and change all my focus on class skills and magicka, and probably light armor -- defeating the purpose of putting all that time into Blacksmithing and Hvy Armor.
As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.
I think you highlighted the real problem pretty effectively without intending to, unless i read you wrong. The issue shouldn't really be that this one skill got nerfed, it should be that stamina based skills are comparatively weak, at the moment the only real way to play is to be magicka based, whereas if you choose a stamina based build you are going to be behind the curve for everything, I know on my dw/bow NB i had to swap to magicka and class skills to get by after awhile.
Well, this is the issue I am trying to explain. I do not want to be forced to play a mage. Granted we can play whatever we want in this game to whatever degree we would like so to speak, BUT when a main skill line (sword and board) fails to be effective, I am forced to conform to a more appropriate skill line. (which I do not want to do).0 -
EvilEmpire✭✭✭
I think you highlighted the real problem pretty effectively without intending to, unless i read you wrong. The issue shouldn't really be that this one skill got nerfed, it should be that stamina based skills are comparatively weak, at the moment the only real way to play is to be magicka based, whereas if you choose a stamina based build you are going to be behind the curve for everything, I know on my dw/bow NB i had to swap to magicka and class skills to get by after awhile.
You're exactly right - I went off a bigger rant on a different post, but that's a big part of the problem. Even though I'm stamina based, I still use class skills and buffs, but they are just supporting skills - and the attacks are just DoTs that don't do much damage anyway. I have enough mag to cover those, but have all my investments into the Stamina side.0 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭EvilEmpire wrote: »I completely agree with the OP in essentially all aspects.
The bash nerf completely changes the dynamic of my character. It's not because bash does less damage, but as a Stamina based char, now I have to spam more class attacks if I want any chance to kill mobs, which as a low magicka char, have very little effect (I've seen combat logs where some of my dk skills only do 60 damage to a VR7 mob). Since I now have no real dps, constantly have to spam other skills to try and wear down the mob; I leave myself wide open most of the time, defeating the purpose of the shield in the first place.
I did the 2h DPS thing (up until VR3 where surviving got a lot harder with no def posture), and bow thing, and basically now that 1h/sh is garbage, my stamina based, heavy armor dps/tank (which I primarily play solo), is nothing like it used to be. Basically I have to respec (AGAIN because I already had to do that because 2h and bow suck as a solo player in high VR content), and change all my focus on class skills and magicka, and probably light armor -- defeating the purpose of putting all that time into Blacksmithing and Hvy Armor.
As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.
I think you highlighted the real problem pretty effectively without intending to, unless i read you wrong. The issue shouldn't really be that this one skill got nerfed, it should be that stamina based skills are comparatively weak, at the moment the only real way to play is to be magicka based, whereas if you choose a stamina based build you are going to be behind the curve for everything, I know on my dw/bow NB i had to swap to magicka and class skills to get by after awhile.
Well, this is the issue I am trying to explain. I do not want to be forced to play a mage. Granted we can play whatever we want in this game to whatever degree we would like so to speak, BUT when a main skill line (sword and board) fails to be effective, I am forced to conform to a more appropriate skill line. (which I do not want to do).
Granted, but keep in mind, that in TES universe having and using magicka doesn't make you a mage neccesarily, it's just there. this doesn't address the issue of stamina being so underpowered in comparison though.0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭EvilEmpire wrote: »I completely agree with the OP in essentially all aspects.
The bash nerf completely changes the dynamic of my character. It's not because bash does less damage, but as a Stamina based char, now I have to spam more class attacks if I want any chance to kill mobs, which as a low magicka char, have very little effect (I've seen combat logs where some of my dk skills only do 60 damage to a VR7 mob). Since I now have no real dps, constantly have to spam other skills to try and wear down the mob; I leave myself wide open most of the time, defeating the purpose of the shield in the first place.
I did the 2h DPS thing (up until VR3 where surviving got a lot harder with no def posture), and bow thing, and basically now that 1h/sh is garbage, my stamina based, heavy armor dps/tank (which I primarily play solo), is nothing like it used to be. Basically I have to respec (AGAIN because I already had to do that because 2h and bow suck as a solo player in high VR content), and change all my focus on class skills and magicka, and probably light armor -- defeating the purpose of putting all that time into Blacksmithing and Hvy Armor.
As a cascading effect, this nerf basically took every bit of fun out of this game for me. If I wanted to build a magicka based char with light armor/mag regen, I would've done a mage.
I think you highlighted the real problem pretty effectively without intending to, unless i read you wrong. The issue shouldn't really be that this one skill got nerfed, it should be that stamina based skills are comparatively weak, at the moment the only real way to play is to be magicka based, whereas if you choose a stamina based build you are going to be behind the curve for everything, I know on my dw/bow NB i had to swap to magicka and class skills to get by after awhile.
Well, this is the issue I am trying to explain. I do not want to be forced to play a mage. Granted we can play whatever we want in this game to whatever degree we would like so to speak, BUT when a main skill line (sword and board) fails to be effective, I am forced to conform to a more appropriate skill line. (which I do not want to do).
Welcome to veteran content. You HAVE to use class skills AND weapon skills.0 -
Dyabolikal✭✭I find that using one hand and shield quite reasonable but its more for taking on single targets for multiples I use 2 handed with lots of aoe skills to weaken the mobs.
Shield bash- heavy attack-flamelash-heavy attack-power bash-flamelash-heavy attack-roll away rinse and repeat. Great for single targets. I do use DK though so if I get caught in a jam I can always through down the banner of pain and block through the attacks.
In the end though 1 hand and shield is not the best choice for taking out mobs I don't believe it was ever supposed to be, and shield bash should have only been used to interpret, not to slam everything into oblivion. There are a lot of options to be had for taking on mobs you don't have to tank it solo there is no point .0
