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The reason why the bash balance could be considered unwarranted. (A request for 1h + shield changes)
yogarogue
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There is some hate going around towards the recent balancing/nerf of bash.
While I agree that it was a bit exploitative I also must say that I believe its damage was reduced TOO much.
You see for all those (including myself) who dedicated themselves in MMOs to the role of tank have a distinct desire for the roleplaying 1 hand a shield dynamic / gameplay. (Im not trying to speak for everyone but as someone who enjoys tanking I see absolutely no other way of playing the game).
Now, as I stated before some were exploiting the bash mechanic coupling it with deadly bash passive and glyphs. I, too, found that it was doing more damage than it intended to do. BUT, as a tank who enjoys the 1 hand and shield role, I found it a great incentive to remain a tank throughout my journey in tamriel.
With the recent "balancing" of bash, that incentive has quickly been driven away due to the fact that I find no usefulness anywhere else in the one hand and shield tree. Hence, I have lost interest in tanking, and lets not forget and few and far between tanks can be.
NOW, some of you will be saying that traditionally tanks shouldn't be concerned with doing dmg. HOWEVER, I come from a background in MMOs where I have always rolled tank, and although this may have been slightly true in older MMOs, through the evolution of the MMO experience I have found that tanking in various games has required and offered considerable amount of DPS. Equaling if not exceeding (at times) the dedicated DPS classes.
ALSO AND VERY IMPORTANT is the idea that this bash "balance" was most desired by those players effected by it in PVP and as I said before in those cases this balance was rightly needed. But in the case of the PvE experience (where my gripe is) The balance has gone considerably too far. I am a tank because I enjoy the feel of a tank and Most of my PvE experience is solo, I mean a very very large percentage of it due to the fact that there is not much offered in the way of group dynamic, i am soloing more so than any other MMO I have played. but I am still a tank in these situations (in my mind atleast), even though I am not holding the agro in a dungeon. and with this recent "balancing" I have lost all incentive to play that role I have always loved.
I am not saying hurry hurry bring the bash back that we once loved and exploited. Maybe consider the idea that it was balanced too far. OR, have at it with the entire 1 hand and shield tree and see what you can do to make it more appealing to us tanks
I also feel it is important to mention that there is very little synergy between the heavy armor skill line and most class skill trees, again furthering the distaste for rolling a tank in this game.
EDIT: For those of you that may mention the 1 hand and shield skill line has a taunt and an armor bonus ( with shield in offhand ) and those can be considered valuable. I say, both of these things can be found elsewhere in the ways of the undaunted skill line, a soft cap of armor thru heavy armor wearing, and various class skills that offer distinct armor/ spell resistances.
The fact is, 1 hand and shield can be consider Completely obsolete. and I find this unacceptable as a tank loving MMO roleplayer
Edited by yogarogue on 25 May 2014 17:38 While I agree that it was a bit exploitative I also must say that I believe its damage was reduced TOO much.
You see for all those (including myself) who dedicated themselves in MMOs to the role of tank have a distinct desire for the roleplaying 1 hand a shield dynamic / gameplay. (Im not trying to speak for everyone but as someone who enjoys tanking I see absolutely no other way of playing the game).
Now, as I stated before some were exploiting the bash mechanic coupling it with deadly bash passive and glyphs. I, too, found that it was doing more damage than it intended to do. BUT, as a tank who enjoys the 1 hand and shield role, I found it a great incentive to remain a tank throughout my journey in tamriel.
With the recent "balancing" of bash, that incentive has quickly been driven away due to the fact that I find no usefulness anywhere else in the one hand and shield tree. Hence, I have lost interest in tanking, and lets not forget and few and far between tanks can be.
NOW, some of you will be saying that traditionally tanks shouldn't be concerned with doing dmg. HOWEVER, I come from a background in MMOs where I have always rolled tank, and although this may have been slightly true in older MMOs, through the evolution of the MMO experience I have found that tanking in various games has required and offered considerable amount of DPS. Equaling if not exceeding (at times) the dedicated DPS classes.
ALSO AND VERY IMPORTANT is the idea that this bash "balance" was most desired by those players effected by it in PVP and as I said before in those cases this balance was rightly needed. But in the case of the PvE experience (where my gripe is) The balance has gone considerably too far. I am a tank because I enjoy the feel of a tank and Most of my PvE experience is solo, I mean a very very large percentage of it due to the fact that there is not much offered in the way of group dynamic, i am soloing more so than any other MMO I have played. but I am still a tank in these situations (in my mind atleast), even though I am not holding the agro in a dungeon. and with this recent "balancing" I have lost all incentive to play that role I have always loved.
I am not saying hurry hurry bring the bash back that we once loved and exploited. Maybe consider the idea that it was balanced too far. OR, have at it with the entire 1 hand and shield tree and see what you can do to make it more appealing to us tanks
I also feel it is important to mention that there is very little synergy between the heavy armor skill line and most class skill trees, again furthering the distaste for rolling a tank in this game.
EDIT: For those of you that may mention the 1 hand and shield skill line has a taunt and an armor bonus ( with shield in offhand ) and those can be considered valuable. I say, both of these things can be found elsewhere in the ways of the undaunted skill line, a soft cap of armor thru heavy armor wearing, and various class skills that offer distinct armor/ spell resistances.
The fact is, 1 hand and shield can be consider Completely obsolete. and I find this unacceptable as a tank loving MMO roleplayer
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Nooblet✭✭✭✭The way I see it. The ability(free, without taking a slot) was intended to be an interupt with an added dmg aspect. This was not intended to be a regular spam ability or even an ability used very often.
I feel like the 1h/shield skill line should be defensive, and not provide near the dps of an offensive weapon spec.
The changes they made promote the use of the ability as it was intended, with an increase in dmg when interrupting. I would ONLY be ok with them upping the dmg a bit more when successfully interrupting something.
I'm sorry to hear that you do not like tanking if you cannot do good dps. I however I do not like 50% of the population in pvp being Tanks, so it was a welcomed change for me.Edited by Nooblet on 25 May 2014 17:563 -
Mykah✭✭✭Bash is a mechanic utility used to interrupt that can be used with any weapon.
Power Bash is a 1h/Shield ability that CCs and does damage.
Tanking in a dungeon in no way requires high dps from the tank.
If you want to do more damage with 1hs use Power Bash morphed to Power Slam.
If you want to "play a tank solo in pve" learn to use instant attacks while holding block.0 -
Baphomet✭✭✭✭✭
✭The changes they made promote the use of the ability as it was intended, with an increase in dmg when interrupting. I would ONLY be ok with them upping the dmg a bit more when successfully interrupting something.
This. On a successful interupt it should really hurt. Haven't tried a bash-interupt since the change - is the damage from it reasonable?- The Psijic Order
- TKO
- Dominant Dominion
- The Noore0 -
Valn✭✭✭✭✭Bash is a mechanic utility used to interrupt that can be used with any weapon.
Power Bash is a 1h/Shield ability that CCs and does damage.
Tanking in a dungeon in no way requires high dps from the tank.
If you want to do more damage with 1hs use Power Bash morphed to Power Slam.
If you want to "play a tank solo in pve" learn to use instant attacks while holding block.
You do realise tanking solo in pve with 1h and shield is pretty much useless now considering the mobs do more damage to you than you can do to them...which is why you die when you attack a pack of mobs by yourself.
It's not a learn to play issue. Just because i use 1h and shield doesnt mean i'm a tank.3 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I disagree with a lot of the complaints around 1 hand and shield, especially the "its useless now" comments. I continue to use 1hand and shield for many reasons. Power bash, great cc, shield charge great for getting to ranged mobs, absorb magic is great for not only blocking that ranged spell, but healing myself (making life easier for healer), puncture a fast always works taunt. 1 hand and shield continues to be a great option for questing and tanking, and bash continues to be a good interrupt if used timely1
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PayneTK✭✭Bash often saved my life while i was almost dying and too low on magika/stamina to use any other skill.
Now i keep dying because when i run out of skills, i have nothing to finish the mob before delivering the final strike. And adding what they did to Biting Jabs made my main character too depressing to even play it.0 -
Indarqeen✭✭no matter what the bash has been nerfed too much, i don't say it should not have ben nerfed, but this is way to heftig and makes it hard work "AND THIS IS NOT WORK" this is a game and it should be fun
Edited by Indarqeen on 25 May 2014 19:140 -
ErilAq✭✭✭The main issue with bash was that it wasn't a skill. You say you can't kill a mob when low on stamina and magicka anymore? Neither can anyone else who wasn't using sword and board. I'm sorry, it doesn't even take a slot on your bar. If it was a slotted ability I could see an issue, but it was obviously broken as it stood. What good is having abilities when you can just spam bash and do massive damage? (if you run out of stam/magicka too soon, take some points out of health and put them into stam/magicka or enchant for stam/magicka)
edited: if other (slotted) abilities need a damage increase, I think that would be a good compromiseEdited by ErilAq on 25 May 2014 19:14Internet armchair warriors attack! Yayayayayayaaaaaah!!!!0 -
Indarqeen✭✭then we need more dmg on the sword as a compensation, if not a full specced tank will need, a healer in team on high vet content, and that is a laugh.1
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PayneTK✭✭Don't get me wrong, Bash also consumed stamina, but it did more weapon damage because of that. It was a great game mechanic.
You don't even need sword and board to do that kind of attack/damage, you can do it with a staff too.
They should at least increase the bash damage along with regular weapon bash (left lick + right click) so all the classes can benefit from that so they don't consider it OP. (without destroying the FUN for everybody)0 -
Darastix✭✭✭I don't think Bash needs to do any damage at all, a knock back or a stun but no damage.0 -
Reenlister✭✭✭then we need more dmg on the sword as a compensation, if not a full specced tank will need, a healer in team on high vet content, and that is a laugh.
Aye I have been preaching this myself. The sword by itself is like a set of chopsticks. Especially at the higher end, one who has spent their life swinging a sword should do at least enough damage to worry the enemy a bit. As it is now, its more annoying, aye, I kill 'em, but you really really have to know what your doing to make the battle not turn again ye quick.
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Eivar✭✭✭✭What I would really like to see is for them to revamp the attack animations of Sword and board, as it is the character just holds his shield and swings his sword around it. A more active use of your shield in combat, hitting people with it and such as you click would look a lot more interesting, for example the kill move in skyrim where you land a final blow with your shield by holding it horizontal and swining it into the enemies head......adding in a lot of those kind of animations would simply make combat with this weapon style seem a lot more interesting, maybe use the armor value of the shield to modify the weapon dmg or something to make sword and board more dps viable.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think a long-term solution that should appease everyone is to re-design the 1H/Shield tree in such a way that it can be offensive OR defensive, but not both at the same time. Some sort of toggleable "stance" ability or something of that nature.0 -
yogarogue✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »I think a long-term solution that should appease everyone is to re-design the 1H/Shield tree in such a way that it can be offensive OR defensive, but not both at the same time. Some sort of toggleable "stance" ability or something of that nature.
The idea behind my post was to offer an idea for consideration. That idea is to rebuild the 1h/shield tree so it doesn't seem so plainly obsolete compared to other weapon trees. So that the people who find the skill tree appealing can actually feel welcomed to use it in this game..
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Vunter✭✭✭
>He used to kill enemies with a shieldThe fact is, 1 hand and shield can be consider Completely obsolete. and I find this unacceptable as a tank loving MMO roleplayer
>roleplayer0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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>He used to kill enemies with a shieldThe fact is, 1 hand and shield can be consider Completely obsolete. and I find this unacceptable as a tank loving MMO roleplayer
>roleplayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZkitw1_Fw 1 -
Vunter✭✭✭
≠Maverick827 wrote: »
>He used to kill enemies with a shieldThe fact is, 1 hand and shield can be consider Completely obsolete. and I find this unacceptable as a tank loving MMO roleplayer
>roleplayerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZkitw1_Fw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bPLPO_mPg&feature=youtu.be Edited by Vunter on 25 May 2014 21:040 -
pknecron✭✭✭Bash often saved my life while i was almost dying and too low on magika/stamina to use any other skill.
Now i keep dying because when i run out of skills, i have nothing to finish the mob before delivering the final strike. And adding what they did to Biting Jabs made my main character too depressing to even play it.
White damage my friend; swing that sword/axe/mace and save your own life. People complaining about the Bash nerf always said it barely did more than white damage anyway, so the difference should be minimal... UNLESS IT WAS OP AND THEY WERE ALL SONS OF M'AIQ...
Edited by pknecron on 25 May 2014 21:041 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vunter
Nothing in game looks exactly 100% like real life, obviously. The point is that shields definitely were used as offensive weapons, so the concept is in no way incorrect.1 -
pknecron✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »@Vunter
Nothing in game looks exactly 100% like real life, obviously. The point is that shields definitely were used as offensive weapons, so the concept is in no way incorrect.
And they still are, just not so much that they are better than the pointy stick you carry in your other hand.
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Eivar✭✭✭✭@Vunter
That video is exactly why i agree with the damage nerf, but think they should revamp the skill line to include offensive hits from the shield to account for the reality of a shields offensive uses. but clearly charging into combat then facebooping ftw was a ridiculous and unintended exploit.2 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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And the pointy stick is terrible as it is. The entire line is useless now.Maverick827 wrote: »@Vunter
Nothing in game looks exactly 100% like real life, obviously. The point is that shields definitely were used as offensive weapons, so the concept is in no way incorrect.
And they still are, just not so much that they are better than the pointy stick you carry in your other hand.2 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's fine. They can make it do 400dps again.
So long as they make it a skill. Sound good?
(I use and yes, still use 1h/shield... Effectively)0 -
Indarqeen✭✭so the nerf is pvp relatet and hammers Down on pve players thats a laugh and im glad I cancled my account0
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PayneTK✭✭why couldn't they fix bash without destroying it completely .. a simple 40% damage reduction should had sufficed0
