My solution to the ever so unbalanced "Bolt Escape".

SinisterJoint

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

How dare people use an ability called Bolt ESCAPE to bolt away escape! NERF Two Handed! It allows people to attack me with a 2 handed weapon! NERF IT!

Bolt Escape -- yep.. Its not Bolt Outrunamount, or Bolt Travelaccrosscyrodil.

It really just needs increased magika cost that's all. 3-4 Bolts to escape from death and make some room to heal... sure. 8-12 times ... no.

Malmai

bg22 wrote: »

(I posted this elsewhere, but felt it deserved it's own thread being that I truly believe this would balance the ridiculous level of easy escape that Bolt Escape offers.)

LITERALLY all bolt escape does is rob the better player of AP once the sorcerer realizes he's certainly lost.

I'm all about them having bolt escape, but it shouldn't be a "sure escape" every single time. It should be cast-able roughly 2 times.

No other class has a sure "escape after losing", neither should you. You lost? Face it, give me my earned AP. The ONLY way it should be a sure escape is if you cast it at the BEGINNING of combat, not when you've fought long enough to be taken down to 15%.

Can I avoid a entire Zerg as a nightblade? Yes, and it requires a full magicka bar, a magicka potion and wit.

THAT is how an escape skill should be.

On top of that, DOTs (including ones I've put on enemies!) break my stealth and ensure that I'm detected/caught.

Want to balance Bolt? Have the cost multiplied by 1.5x each time castes within 5 seconds of itself. That would allow you to get away under the circumstance that you choose to do so close to the beginning of a fight, not the end after you've been defeated.

Killing Sorcs all day everyday hint: check your class skills/weapon skills, you have more than enough variations to catch Sorcs.

Phantorang

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

NB`s can go invisible... dk`s can go immune to damage for 12 seconds(magma armor) while sorcs can maybe run... and you cry about the sorcs? Are you a DK or a NB?

Hmm, seems like Templar got really shafted, again....

bg22

Phantorang wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

NB`s can go invisible... dk`s can go immune to damage for 12 seconds(magma armor) while sorcs can maybe run... and you cry about the sorcs? Are you a DK or a NB?

Hmm, seems like Templar got really shafted, again....

Yeah, it's not like they can gain a 900hp damage shield or anything like that.

iuki

So when bolt escape is nerfed (we all know it will be) into uselessness as many in this thread desire, what do sorcs get in compensation for the loss of the only real defensive option we have? With out bolt escape, sorcs have no other means to 'escape' and everything we do other than that is trumped by a DK...

Is this pretty much just about 'rogue' players who desire no contest insto ganks like other previous MMOs I have played? Seems like it, seems like it.

Leovolao

If they nerf it to the point of being useless... I'll probably won't pvp for a while. Not QQ here, but dying all the time ain't fun for me. They could give us a reliable self heal, surge is ok for me right now, but 50% healing (50% crit for me) only when attacking doesn't sound so good if they take away mobility.

FlatLine84

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pagf46L2SU4


I hate "sure escape" more than anyone else, however in this vid I made I tip my hat to the second to last 1v1 fight I had with this Mage.. Even tho he clearly abused the skill at least he was man enough to continue the fight.

bg22

iuki wrote: »

So when bolt escape is nerfed (we all know it will be) into uselessness as many in this thread desire, what do sorcs get in compensation for the loss of the only real defensive option we have? With out bolt escape, sorcs have no other means to 'escape' and everything we do other than that is trumped by a DK...

Is this pretty much just about 'rogue' players who desire no contest insto ganks like other previous MMOs I have played? Seems like it, seems like it.

Literally nobody said they want it nerfed into uselessness. Which I'm sure they won't do. They've been pretty fair thus far with fixing things appropriately, so hopefully they continue on the same path.

Right now BE is pretty much like shadowy disguise if shadowy disguise were immune to damage, added movement speed and lasted for 5 seconds. Ya know, if it were a "sure escape". But it's not. It's a balanced escape skill that requires skill and cunning. THAT is all the "QQ'ers" (as all sorcs love to refer to the ppl who desire a little less ridiculousness) wish for.

ErilAq

First, props to the poster who finally admitted this is not about Bolt Escape being overpowered, it's about people's frustration at not getting the AP for the kill. Second, if you're running around solo you're doing ESO pvp wrong. It's group and objective based. If you want to be a solo god go play another game.

In a group situation bolt escape is worthless, since you bring absolutely nothing to the group by slotting it. If you're mad because you're running around solo trying to gank an unsuspecting player and get miffed because the sorc doesn't let you do that, then I'm sorry, this game is not for you. now to counter some of the more common misconceptions about group viability for bolt escape:

setting up a forward camp- congrats, everyone can do it. in addition, if you're guarding the objective like you should be, your group will be staying nearby or following the trail of stragglers to whatever base camp the attacking group probably already set up prior to assault.

rezzing the raid- again, in group pvp, I'd love to the sorc res his group in the keep/resource while avoiding the 30+ enemy players and the guards for the entire time it takes to res someone (much less the entire group).

If you like solo play, learn to adapt and accept that you will not get AP every time you try to fight someone solo. if you like group pvp, laugh at the enemy group who has the selfish sorc that runs at the first sign of trouble. It's that simple.

ruzlb16_ESO

bg22 wrote: »

If it existed in rl, a movie, a game, regardless IMO magic is girly.

You may be better off in a game that doesn't use a high fantasy setting.

FlatLine84

ErilAq wrote: »

First, props to the poster who finally admitted this is not about Bolt Escape being overpowered, it's about people's frustration at not getting the AP for the kill. Second, if you're running around solo you're doing ESO pvp wrong. It's group and objective based. If you want to be a solo god go play another game.

In a group situation bolt escape is worthless, since you bring absolutely nothing to the group by slotting it. If you're mad because you're running around solo trying to gank an unsuspecting player and get miffed because the sorc doesn't let you do that, then I'm sorry, this game is not for you. now to counter some of the more common misconceptions about group viability for bolt escape:

setting up a forward camp- congrats, everyone can do it. in addition, if you're guarding the objective like you should be, your group will be staying nearby or following the trail of stragglers to whatever base camp the attacking group probably already set up prior to assault.

rezzing the raid- again, in group pvp, I'd love to the sorc res his group in the keep/resource while avoiding the 30+ enemy players and the guards for the entire time it takes to res someone (much less the entire group).

If you like solo play, learn to adapt and accept that you will not get AP every time you try to fight someone solo. if you like group pvp, laugh at the enemy group who has the selfish sorc that runs at the first sign of trouble. It's that simple.

You obviously must not PVP at all or just suck at it... For 1 cyrodill welcomes all forms of PVP not just objective, second "sure escape" is OP on the principle that you can be committed to a fight and esp whenever you please esp abilities should require skill and at least some kind of thought processes other than "button smash here" if they mess up just like the rest of us they should pay the price.

darkopale

Dont nerf "bolt escape" BUT allow NB to use "teleporte strike" without any target and to use "shield charge" and "critical charge" without any target too

Appalachian

I think BOT-BOLTING terrain/client exploitation should be squashed before Bolt Escape is given ANY thought of changes (if at all.)

The focus on some of these "OP" abilities. or "nerfed" abilities is focusing on the smaller aspect of a greater war. The security and stability, not to mention survival, of ESO.

KILL THE BOTS. Then we know ZOS might be working on across the board class balance (for those who feel it necessary.)

bg22

ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

If it existed in rl, a movie, a game, regardless IMO magic is girly.

You may be better off in a game that doesn't use a high fantasy setting.

I never said I didn't like fighting magic users, now did I?

@ErilAq I know it's not tailored for solo-play. But there are many of us out there that still enjoy it. And it's certainly do-able.

I killed over 100 players yesterday in Bruma, running solo. Good times, good times. No need to transfer to a different game to satisfy that need. Solo god? No, but I did have a player tell me yesterday that I'm unbeatable, and if anyone says NB is underpowered, they haven't fought me. haha So, maybe a Solo Demigod? =P

ErilAq

I'm actually decent at pvp, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a "god" or pro, but I'd place myself at average. The thing is, when a sorc runs from me, I just let him go. No harm, no foul. I'll just get someone else. If I can, I will counter him and kill him. Have sorcs killed me? yeah, they have, but so have DK's, NB's, and templars. I don't cry when a templar heals himself without using a resto staff, I don't cry when a dk pops his magma armor and just tanks my hits, I don't whine when another NB syphons my health into oblivion, and I don't consider BE an op ability. every class has a defensive ability, I don't see how sorcs are so different.

bg22

ErilAq wrote: »

I'm actually decent at pvp, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a "god" or pro, but I'd place myself at average. The thing is, when a sorc runs from me, I just let him go. No harm, no foul. I'll just get someone else. If I can, I will counter him and kill him. Have sorcs killed me? yeah, they have, but so have DK's, NB's, and templars. I don't cry when a templar heals himself without using a resto staff, I don't cry when a dk pops his magma armor and just tanks my hits, I don't whine when another NB syphons my health into oblivion, and I don't consider BE an op ability. every class has a defensive ability, I don't see how sorcs are so different.

Bc on a scale of ease of escape BE is a 10, while all other classes are a 2-3.

Eivar

bg22 wrote: »

ErilAq wrote: »

I'm actually decent at pvp, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a "god" or pro, but I'd place myself at average. The thing is, when a sorc runs from me, I just let him go. No harm, no foul. I'll just get someone else. If I can, I will counter him and kill him. Have sorcs killed me? yeah, they have, but so have DK's, NB's, and templars. I don't cry when a templar heals himself without using a resto staff, I don't cry when a dk pops his magma armor and just tanks my hits, I don't whine when another NB syphons my health into oblivion, and I don't consider BE an op ability. every class has a defensive ability, I don't see how sorcs are so different.

Bc on a scale of ease of escape BE is a 10, while all other classes are a 2-3.

At the moment my only problem with BE is how effective it is in comparison to other methods, such as NB invis, invis is easily counterable with mage light, you can frquently see the nb cast it (WHILE they are stealthed) making it easy to follow them, if a nb is within sight range of an enemy guard(or merc) then everyone can see them, frequently you get caught in an in combat/ detected state, even though there is no one nearby to see you.

for example i was poking aroung cyrodiil the other day, came upon a sorc, jumped him with ambush, fight went on for a moment, he was built well to counter nbs, i decided to get out of combat and try to get another stealth attack, so i hit invis and took off, I hid behind a rock waiting for the DETECTED/in combat to wear off, watched him run off in the opposite direction......it wasn't until he faded from view that i was able to finally get out of combat/detected and restealth. Oh and is a sorc with BE has mage light up, you might as well just stand there and take a death, even as a vamp with concealed weapon and steed stone, you cannot get out of mage light range to get away, it's just not possible you aren't fast enough.

but you know, somehow that is just as effective as BE is some peoples eyes....lol

bg22

@Eivar‌ I know right?

Let's make an ability from the fighters guild that chains sorcs to us if they come within the same radius as magelight, which prevents them from blinking away. Then we'll call it even. Haha

makreth

NB's can be detected easily by inner light or even detect potion lol dont even bother mentioning that.

ForTheRealm

Liquid_Time wrote: »

I do agree bolt escape is frustrating.. However I find a sense of joy when you get the jump on a sorc and they simply flee. Sure I lose the AP, but there is plenty of other kills to get that from.

Edit: Also, elusive mist can be used for an escape. It is not a sure escape, but I have been able to survive many fights thanks to it.

Use the tools you have and try to enjoy the game.

When was the last time you used Elusive Mist?!
After the Vampires line nerf, it is slower than sprint. It is hardly an escape utility nowadays.

ForTheRealm

elorei wrote: »

I play a DK and a sorc. Both vet lvls.

As my dk, who uses 1h/shield, I have never let a sorc get away from me if we are already in combat together. Maybe yeah, in large group fights, but never in small skirmishes. Invasion goes just as far as streak, and has a VERY nice stun on it, by the time they break stun and streak again, I have done some damage, then I jump 'em again. They are way easier to kill this way then when they actually fight back.

Instead of complaining about a skill with completely obvious counters, try using some of the counters.

Do you really have a Sorc alt and don't know how to act against Invasion (or stuns in general) or just trolling?!
The good Sorc in PVP will break out of the stun to get immunity and Escape Bolt to get out, or will use Immovable...

ForTheRealm

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

NB`s can go invisible... dk`s can go immune to damage for 12 seconds(magma armor) while sorcs can maybe run... and you cry about the sorcs? Are you a DK or a NB?

NB invisibility lasts 2,5 sec and can be countered by Inner Light ability...
DK Magma Armor is Ultimate ability so can be used only on specific situations..
Temp... yeah they have pretty nothing in this area to compare...

So, please don't compare apples and oranges.

ForTheRealm

Glurin wrote: »

People that say it's a guaranteed escape have no idea what they are talking about and are probably just miffed that somebody can run away from them at all.

....

This is a learn to play issue. Not a game balance issue.

Really?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnrqZzKPbQw

(note: not my video, but I agree with most of the comments presented)

ForTheRealm

Malmai wrote: »

Killing Sorcs all day everyday hint: check your class skills/weapon skills, you have more than enough variations to catch Sorcs.

Could you be more specific? I am still learning the game and I would like to know what are the options for NB, DK, Temp to catch a Sorc who is using Bolt Escape ;-)

Phantorang

SinisterJoint wrote: »

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

How dare people use an ability called Bolt ESCAPE to bolt away escape! NERF Two Handed! It allows people to attack me with a 2 handed weapon! NERF IT!

Bolt Escape -- yep.. Its not Bolt Outrunamount, or Bolt Travelaccrosscyrodil.

It really just needs increased magika cost that's all. 3-4 Bolts to escape from death and make some room to heal... sure. 8-12 times ... no.

No way! An increase of magica cost of BE is far from enough, it shouldnt be that easy to escape a battle, no matter the Magicka cost. Think of an army of BE Sorcs, Bolting in and out of combat as they see fit, and everytime they use it they Stun you if your in range.

That just stinks nerf, or make it castable 1 time every minute, and quadruple the magicka cost, it should be the

VERY LAST RESORT, and to make that happen, it should be a debuff after its cast that completely stops magicka to regen for a full minute, thats the next time its castable.

AlexDrago

When i read another "BE nerf" thread, i think for myself - "it's just ppl, who need l2p and no more." Skilled ppl killing BE Sorc easy and without whining on forum.

ForTheRealm

AlexDrago wrote: »

When i read another BE berf thread, i think for myself - it's just ppl, who need l2p and no more. Skilled ppl killing BE Sorc easy and without whining on forum.

When I read a reply with L2P and no further explanations, I know that is written by a troll or a person who does not know what is talking about ;-)

AlexDrago

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

When i read another BE berf thread, i think for myself - it's just ppl, who need l2p and no more. Skilled ppl killing BE Sorc easy and without whining on forum.

When I read a reply with L2P and no further explanations, I know that is written by a troll or a person who does not know what is talking about ;-)

And .. when i reading that someone reading that other reading about l2p ... Oh.. it's like "This Is the House That Jack Built" .
Well, seriously i'm a sorc and last time i stopped using BE - Venom Arrow is biggest problem.
The reason why Sorc fleed from is that he hasn't good DPS per native skills.
DPS - damage per second.

Maulkin

AlexDrago wrote: »

The reason why Sorc fleed from is that he hasn't good DPS per native skills.
DPS - damage per second.

I've heard a lot of for/against arguments about BE, but this one is the best.

The best DPS class (Sorc) flees combat because it hasn't got good DPS?
So much BS in one line, my head's about to explode...

Soulharvester

I would try stunning! Open up with a stun, ginsu, then stun again, resume the ginsu...

Or and I like this one, give a dual wield or two-hand an ultimate ability that keeps the blade in the person and then slam them against a wall, tree, ground, or even fling them off a cliff. Could have multiple dw/2hand people on em and you can just toss em back and forth.

It could feed off ultimate like the lightning hands one.

I wonder what the morphs would look like?!